How do I breed a racehorse. Advice for beginner needed.

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GMT

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Hello All

I am hoping some forumites might help with advice and information with my very early plans to breed a racehorse.

My Situation
My daughter owns two horses, (unsuitable for breeding). she is at present taking her degree in equine science at Bishop Burton. We live in the North-East of England. We both have an interest in breeding a racehorse. Because we do not have our own land we have livery for the two horses, its always been a major barrier to breeding. Lately we have made an enquiry to a large stud near Otterburn which is close to our home where we are going to visit and discuss our hopes of breeding a racehorse. The stud has several very good stallions available.

What I want out of this venture
The experience of breeding a beautiful athletic animal. To go through the process of breeding so as to benefit my daughters career. And a little bit is so I can recieve the Gold Cup at cheltenham !

How do I breed this horse
This is the area I struggle with, should I go down to Doncaster sales and buy a cheap mare who is well bred and use this as my broodmare ? If this is the way forward how do I make sure the pedigree matches the stallions I have on offer ? Do I lease a mare ? If so where do I find well bred Tbds available for lease, and how much would I be looking at paying ? When I manage to find a suitable mare and take it to the stud my thoughts are I would have to leave it there long term so as to be covered and staying there until she foals, is this a typical way to do this ? Noting the livery we have at home is no way suitable for foals.

Costs
My very initial thoughts on costs are that for the first year the costs would be around:
One year livery for the mare £4000
Stud Fee £2000
Foaling £200
Cost of purchasing a mare £3000
Vets fees £1000
Total £10.2K
Any views on these numbers would be greatly appreciated.

Overall
Any and I mean any advise or suggestions would be fantastic, apart from ordering several breeding books and my iminent meeting with the owners of the local stud I have knowhere alse to look for advise and to be able to ask questions, so feel free, the sort of thing I would love to hear is "well this is the way I would do it ".

Thanks for reading

rgds GMT
 
If this is a serious plan you have,your daughter should be learning that in her studies, to buy a mare , get a foal on the ground and to the racecourse, let alone winning, is at best a lottery at worst a financial and emotional disaster.

I would suggest that as you do not have either the facilities or the mare, you approach a reputable breeder and buy a share or shares in a mare or youngster, this will enable you to buy into an ongoing project with hopefully some proven success. You can get as involved as you can and many studs would probably welcome some financial input.

If you go ahead with your original plan your figures stopped at birth of the foal, once it arrives you have 2 to feed, worm, vet bills etc. Weaning of the foal would then incur 2 livery bills or would you then get rid of the mare or breed again, more stud fees etc. The list just goes on.

It is a lovely idea in theory but if it was easy there would be less unwanted failed racehorses around.
 
Yes it is a serious plan. My daughter is just into her second year and is learning as you say but in no way in a position to make decisions at this point.
Unfortunately I dont like the idea of sharing or syndicating, I prefer to be in this with my daughter only. I hate that sort of expression "get rid" of the mare, we would always look after any horse we are resposible for. Of course I realise the costs of having two to feed and its at that point we would be making decisions about selling or keeping, seems a long way off at the moment.

Rgds GMT
 
Hi i thought you'd like to know about the ongoing experience i've having with breeding a racehorse. We have at livery with us a mare who is owned by a syndicate hoping to breed a flat horse. The mare is well bred but has appalling conformation (i wouldn't have bred from her) but has been placed in her only 3 starts before being injured.

She has been put to one of the stallions you are looking at. The mare is due to foal early next year & i'm not sure her owners quite realised the cost involved in doing so.

Livery costs of the mare kept at stud you can easily work out from the relevant stud website but read all the small print as to what is & is not charged for. We are going through about £50 in feed alone for this mare per month, not including supplements (that takes it nearer £100)

'Extras bills' ie. supplements, feet, worming, all need special attention when your mare is in foal & can very quickly mount up without you realising it.

Take a very good look around the stud you choose as proper care, attention & feeding during pregnancy can make all the difference to breeding a healthy foal.

Choose very carefully the stallion as well as the mare. The mare should have good breeding as well as conformation & good 'breeding' conformation. There are numerous ex-racehorses that you can pick up via the sales but a lot will have only produced mediocre progency even to very good stallions or are simply not good enough horses to have bred from.

If you want to breed a flat horse choose a flat bred mare & flat bred stallion & likewise jumping mare to jumping stallion (flat horses will cost more as a general rule)

I think to sum it up its a dream of mine (i have 2 very well bred racehorse mares) but also a bit of an unrealistic one. To breed a racehorse that is any good costs nearer the £50,000 mark & even then is not a guaranteed success and its a different business alltogether going into the thoroughbred industry to the sports horse one.

Tread carefully, choose wisely & remortgage the house before you start!!!
 
GMT said:
Hello All

What I want out of this venture
The experience of breeding a beautiful athletic animal. To go through the process of breeding so as to benefit my daughters career. And a little bit is so I can recieve the Gold Cup at cheltenham !

Costs
My very initial thoughts on costs are that for the first year the costs would be around:
One year livery for the mare £4000
Stud Fee £2000
Foaling £200
Cost of purchasing a mare £3000
Vets fees £1000
Total £10.2K
Any views on these numbers would be greatly appreciated.


rgds GMT
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I know winning the Gold Cup is probably a tongue in cheek comment, but have you checked out the breeding of previous winners? Have you then checked out how much the stud fees for the sires & what the mares cost to purchase? Somehow I think you will be lucky with a 3k budget for the mare even in this climate. Not impossible but if the expects struggle & they are churning out 1000's of horses a year why do you want to add to the carnage? Your circumstances may change, then what? A friend has just been given a perfectly sound 9yo with winnings of over 17k & earnings of over 29k just because he is now sick of racing. A good home was quickly needed & he was given away. There is not a thing wrong with him & he has taken to being a riding horse very well including jumping coloured poles.

Why not wait until you have both gained more experience?
 
You may already have seen this if so then the one thing that stands out are the amount of Irish bred horses, so perhaps you could either move to Ireland or invest in an Irish bred mare put to an Irish bred stallion!

Cheltenham Gold Cup


1924 - Present
Compiled by Catherine Dewick and Patricia Erigero, assisted by Derek Gay
3 1/4 miles weight-for-age steeplechase, Prestbury Park


Year Horse Owner Statistics Sire - Dam - Dam's Sire Family No.
1924 Red Splash Major Humphrey Wyndham ch.g. 1919 Copper Ore - La Manche 11 - d
1925 Ballinode (IRE) Christopher Bentley ch.m. 1915 Machakos - Celia 11 - e
1926 Koko (IRE) Frank Barbour b.g. 1918 Santoi - Persister 5 - f
1927 Thrown In Lord Henry Stalbridge ch.g. 1915 Beau Bill - Va Largo 4 - b
1928 Patron Saint F.W. Keen b.g. 1923 St. Girons - V.M.C. 31
1929 Easter Hero (IRE) John Hay Whitney ch.g. 1920 My Prince - Easter Week Arab Maid Family
1930 Easter Hero (IRE) John Hay Whitney ch.g. 1920 My Prince - Easter Week Arab Maid Family
1931 No Race
1932 Golden Miller (IRE) Dorothy Paget b.g. 1927 Goldcourt - Miller's Pride 16 - a
1933 Golden Miller (IRE) Dorothy Paget b.g. 1927 Goldcourt - Miller's Pride 16 - a
1934 Golden Miller (IRE) Dorothy Paget b.g. 1927 Goldcourt - Miller's Pride 16 - a
1935 Golden Miller (IRE) Dorothy Paget b.g. 1927 Goldcourt - Miller's Pride 16 - a
1936 Golden Miller (IRE) Dorothy Paget b.g. 1927 Goldcourt - Miller's Pride 16 - a
1937 No Race
1938 Morse Code Lt.-Col. Dealtry C. Part b. or ch. g. 1929 The Pilot - Heliograph 2 - h
1939 Brendan's Cottage (IRE) Mrs. Jean Smith-Bingham b.g. 1930 Cottage- Brendan's Glory 22
1940 Roman Hackle (IRE) Dorothy Paget b.g. 1933 Yutoi - Wanoya 8
1941 Poet Prince David Sherbrooke ch.g. 1932 Milton - Welsh Princess 23
1942 Medoc II (FR) Lord Hugh Sefton b.g. 1934 Van - Menthe Poivre 7
1943 Suspended 1943-44
1945 Red Rower Lord Henry Stalbridge b.g. 1934 Rameses the Second - Red Maru 52
1946 Prince Regent (IRE) James V. Rank b.g. 1935 My Prince - Nemaea 5
1947 Fortina (FR) Lord Ralph Grimsthorpe ch.h. 1941 Formor - Bertina 4 - e
1948 Cottage Rake (IRE) Frank L. Vickerman br.g. 1939 Cottage - Hartingo 22
1949 Cottage Rake (IRE) Frank L. Vickerman br.g. 1939 Cottage - Hartingo 22
1950 Cottage Rake (IRE) Frank L. Vickerman br.g. 1939 Cottage - Hartingo 22
1951 Silver Fame Lord Hugh Bicester ch.g. 1939 Werwolf - Silver Fairy 23 - a
1952 Mont Tremblant (FR) Dorothy Paget ch.g. 1946 Gris Perle - Paltoquette 3 - f
1953 Knock Hard Mrs. Moya Keogh ch.h. 1944 Domaha - Knocksouna 5 - i
1954 Four Ten Alan Strange b.g. 1946 Blunderbuss - Undue Praise 2 - o
1955 Gay Donald Philip J. Burt b.g. 1946 Gaylight - Pas de Quatre 8 - i
1956 Limber Hill James Davey ch.g. 1947 Bassam - Mindoon 13 - a
1957 Linwell (IRE) David Brown b.g. 1948 Rosewell - Rubia Linda 17 - b
1958 Kerstin George H. Moore br.m. 1950 Honor's Choice - Miss Kilcash 17 - b
1959 Roddy Owen Lord Oliver Fingall b.g. 1949 Owenstown - Desla's Star 19 - c
1960 Pas Seul John Rogerson b.g. 1953 Erin's Pride - Pas de Quatre 8 - i
1961 Saffron Tartan Col. Guy R. Westmacott br.g. 1951 Tartan - Kellsboro Witch 12
1962 Mandarin Madame Peggy Hennessy b.g. 1951 Deux pour Cent - Manada by Canot 1 - u
1963 Mill House Bill Gollings b.g. 1957 King Hal - Nas na Riogh 21-a
1964 Arkle (IRE) Anne, Duchess of Westminster b.g. 1957 Archive - Bright Cherry 41
1965 Arkle (IRE) Anne, Duchess of Westminster b.g. 1957 Archive - Bright Cherry 41
1966 Arkle (IRE) Anne, Duchess of Westminster b.g. 1957 Archive - Bright Cherry 41
1967 Woodland Venture Harry H. Collins b.g. 1960 Eastern Venture - Woodlander 5 - d
1968 Fort Leney Col. John Thomson b.g. 1958 Fortina - Leney Princess 23
1969 What a Myth Lady Lucy Weir ch.g. 1957 Coup de Myth - What a Din 5 - h
1970 L'Escargot (IRE) Raymond R. Guest ch.g. 1963 Escart III - What a Daisy 3 - i
1971 L'Escargot (IRE) Raymond R. Guest ch.g. 1963 Escart III - What a Daisy 3 - i
1972 Glencaraig Lady Patrick Doyle ch.m. 1964 Fortina - Luckibash 4 - f
1973 The Dikler Mrs. Peggy August b.g. 1963 Vulgan - Coronation Day 19 - c
1974 Captain Christy Mrs. Jane Samuel b.g. 1967 Mon Capitaine - Christy's Bow 26
1975 Ten Up Anne, Duchess of Westminster b.g. 1967 Raise You Ten - Irish Harp 3 - i
1976 Royal Frolic Sir Edward Hanmer b.g. 1969 Royal Buck - Forward Miss 1 - g
1977 Davy Lad Anne Marie McGowan b.g. 1970 David Jack - Jim's Mother 3 - i
1978 Midnight Court Mrs. Olive Jackson b.g. 1971 Twilight Alley - Strumpet 9
1979 Alverton Snailwell Stud Co. ch.g. 1970 Midsummer Night - Alvertona 1 - m
1980 Master Smudge Arthur Barrow ch.g. 1972 Master Stephen - Lily Pond 4 - n
1981 Little Owl (IRE) Robin and Jim Wilson b.g. 1974 Cantab - Black Spangle 4 - c
1982 Silver Buck Mrs. Christine Feather br.g. 1972 Silver Cloud - Choice Archlesse 15 - a
1983 Bregawn (IRE) James Kennelley ch.g. 1974 Saint Denys - Miss Society 4 -d
1984 Burrough Hill Lad R. Stan Riley b.g. 1976 Rich Boy - Green Monkey 9 - e
1985 Forgive n' Forget (IRE) Tim Kilroe & Sons Ltd. ch.g. 1977 Precipice Wood - Tackienne 8 - j
1986 Dawn Run (IRE) Charmian D. Hill b.m. 1978 Deep Run - Twilight Slave 6 - f
1987 The Thinker Tom McDonagh b.g. 1978 Cantab - Maine Pet 21
1988 Charter Party (IRE) Mrs. Claire Smith & Mrs. Jenny Mould b.g. 1978 Document - Ahoy There 22 - d
1989 Desert Orchid (Dessie) Richard Buridge gr.g. 1979 Grey Mirage - Flower Child 13 - a
1990 Norton's Coin Sirrell Griffiths b.g. 1981 Mount Cassino - Grove Chance 3 - o
1991 Garrison Savannah Autofour Engineering b.g. 1983 Random Shot - Merry Coin by Current Com 4 - d
1992 Cool Ground Whitcombe Manor Racing Stables b.g. 1982 Over the River - Merry Spring 23 - a
1993 Jodami (IRE) John N. Yeadon b.g. 1985 Crash Course - Masterstown Lucy 8 - a
1994 The Fellow Marquesa Soldata de Moratalla b.g.1985 Italic (SF) - L'Oranaise 12 - b*
1995 Master Oats Paul A. Matthews ch.g. 1986 Oats - Miss Poker Face 10
1996 Imperial Call (IRE) Lisselan Farms br.g. 1989 Callernish - Princess Menelek 7
1997 Mr. Mulligan (IRE) Michael and Geraldine Worcester ch.g. 1988 Torus - Miss Manhattan 6 - f
1998 Cool Dawn Diane Harding b.g. 1988 Over the River - Aran Tour 11
1999 See More Business Paul Barber b.g.1990 Seymour Hicks - Miss Redlands 15 - a
2000 Looks Like Trouble (IRE) Tim Collins b.g. 1992 Zaffaran - Lavengaddy 10 - d
2001 Cancelled due to Hoof and Mouth Disease Outbreak
2002 Best Mate (IRE) Jim Lewis b.g. 1995 Un Desperado (FR) - Katday (FR) by Miller's Mate 1 - e
2003 Best Mate (IRE) Jim Lewis b.g. 1995 Un Desperado (FR) - Katday (FR) by Miller's Mate 1 - e
2004 Best Mate (IRE) Jim Lewis b.g. 1995 Un Desperado (FR) - Katday (FR) by Miller's Mate 1 - e
2005 Kicking King (IRE) Conor Clarkson b.g. 1998 Old Vic - Fairy Blaze (IRE) by Good Thyne (USA) 8 - c
2006 War of Attrition (IRE) Gigginstown House Stud br.g. 1999 Presenting (GB) - Una Juna (IRE) by Good Thyne (USA) 1 - l
2007 Kauto Star Clive D. Smith ch.g. 2000 Village Star - Kauto Relka by Port Etienne 12 - b
2008 Denman Barber/Findlay ch.g. 2000 Presenting (GB) - Polly Puttens (IRE) by Pollerton (GB) 4
2009 Kauto Star Clive D. Smith ch.g. 2000 Village Star - Kauto Relka by Port Etienne 12 - b
2010 Imperial Commander (IRE) Our Friends in the North b.g. 2001 Flemensfirth (USA) - Ballinlovane (IRE) by Le Moss (IRE) 2 - a
2011 Long Run (FR) Gabeur/Waley-Cohen b.g. 2005 Cadoudal (FR) - Libertina (FR) by Balsamo (FR) 1 - s
 
GMT said:
Magic, how do you invest in a brood mare ?

Rgds Glenn
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I think breeding a race horse is a far greater risk then a sports horse & wouldnt even bother so there would be no investment. I have known too many people try & fail. My grandfather was a race horse lover/gambler who had many friends who owned/bred horses both here & in Kenya. Horses who do well in sport are those that have not just the ability, training, but the heart for it. No one can breed heart/will to win into an animal or human.

Though there is no better thrill then watching a horse you have bred come under saddle & do well, it does not take away from the fact it is the most expensive way to go about getting a riding horse. I would never add to the race horse population because the market it flooded already. Therefore I am biased against it and negative in my attitude. To date I have been lucky with what I have chosen to breed, but I spend a long, long time researching. Only this last time I got caught out, but fate has a funny outlook sometimes!
 
Thanks for your words Magic, have to say I am shocked at the negativity on the Tbd breeding scene. Thankfully I love horses and dont see it simply as a financial position.

One thing I would like to find more about is investing in a broodmare, amazing that there isnt a site where you can find broodmares for sale, surely with so many Tbds out there there must be many for sale, but where ?

RgdsGMT
 
GMT said:
Thanks for your words Magic, have to say I am shocked at the negativity on the Tbd breeding scene. Thankfully I love horses and dont see it simply as a financial position.
Click to expand...
It's not negativity it's realism. Your budget does not sound inkeeping with your wants.

One thing I would like to find more about is investing in a broodmare, amazing that there isnt a site where you can find broodmares for sale, surely with so many Tbds out there there must be many for sale, but where ?

RgdsGMT
Click to expand...
Racing people tend to buy at the bloodstock sales; Tattersalls, Doncaster, Goffs, Ascot Brightwells.
 
Why not try a different angle? So look into breeding and get an idea of the lines you like then why not approach the stud to see which syndicates are sending their mares to them? I have a racing mad friend and the way he can share a racehorse is to - as he says - own a foot in a syndicate!

That's if you are set on a tb racing. You could maybe try the same thing with horses being bred for dressage or eventing.


I have always wanted to be involved with breeding a really nice foal and one day I will ( for eventing). Sadly when I originally did my homework the sums and reality did not add up. I have reset my hopes but now have to wait till I am im the financial position to do it.
 
Having bred my racehorse and owned his sire and dam he will be tested in training this spring I have found it to be the thrill of a life time, from tearing his coat open when he was born to researching his sires and dams pedigree- I have seen him on the gallops, and I have created our own syndicate our horse is a coloured racehorse he will be going in to national hunt training we know he has stamina and can keep up with fast 8 furlong sprinters but not quiet fast enough for the flat he can jump so we are going for it!
Hell you only live once and nothing is ever achieved by not trying.

My advise to you is find the right mare the doncaster sales for mare and foal sales are on soon racing post is a very useful site if you look up bloodstock you will be able to see which sales are on and see the catalogue do your research you want to be buying the dam of a winner if you can if you get chance buyer the dam of two or three its all about dams far more then most peope realise. if you want any further help please pm me as we have done this from scratch
its not always bank breaking
 
My Grandpa, the ultimate hobby breeder, owned two mares, one at a time. He bred about 8 foals and one won at the Goodwood festival, so it can be done. He also ended up with 7 rubbish ones that he gave away, I must add.
 
GMT said:
Costs
My very initial thoughts on costs are that for the first year the costs would be around:
One year livery for the mare £4000
Stud Fee £2000
Foaling £200
Cost of purchasing a mare £3000
Vets fees £1000
Total £10.2K
Any views on these numbers would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

One year's livery probably won't get you as far as foaling - unless you buy her at JUST the right time and she looks at the stallion once and gets pregnant! Then costs treble in the second year!

Your mare cost is ridiculously low - any TB mare for sale at that price has very little going for her as a racing brood mare - even in this climate.

If you're serious, the best place to RESEARCH (not buy!) is next week -at the Tattersalls Dec mare sale - see http://docs.tattersalls.com/cat/december/2011decmares.pdf

See what the mares who are winners and dams of winners go for.

There will be a LOT of horses going cheap - or being taken home - but they will be cheap for a reason. To see the range in likely prices, see last year's prices from the same sale - http://www.tattersalls.com/decmares-sale-top10s.php Yes, there were a few sold at your budget price - and below - but there'll be a reason they were so cheap!

Stud fee is also low. For a very good jumping sire, expect to pay double that! The stud fee is a relatively small part of the costs of producing a foal - so you might as well use a GOOD one!

Your vet's fees and foaling cost are also low. If a mare is a bit tricky, you could easily spend £1,000 just getting her in foal - and then you have routine stuff like CEM/EVA/Strangles swabs/blood tests, EHV vaccination as well as anything that goes wrong before foaling - and if something goes wrong AT foaling you could easily run up another thousand (or 3!)
 
The above poster has given you some good advice.

We struggled for 10 years, before realising we were doing it the wrong way. But, we knew a lot about racing/breeding/pedigrees before we lept in. But..... everything that could go wrong, did go wrong!! Starting with 2 mares, one died (after 2k operation), the other was downright dangerous, almost killed my mum, had only 3 foals in 10 years, one had to be put to sleep, one sold for 800 (stud fee was 3k) the other we raced (10k in racing fees and she didnt win) we then had the dangerous mare put to sleep after she got worse and worse. We had our own land, i'd hate to think what it would have cost otherwise!!!

3 years later, we are pooling money to buy one good (and sane!) mare, with a very decent pedigree, putting her in foal to decent stallions (i would say you want the mares value to be 3-5 times the stud fee of the stallion you are sending her to). So for your £2000 stud fee, you really want to spend 6-10k on the mare.

I am looking at it as an investment, but..... only because i have done a LOT of research on each and every mare that i will be looking at (about 8 mares out of 1000 or so in the sale). And mum has been researching racing/pedigrees her whole life.

my advice would be,
1 research
2 go to the sales (yearling sales, foal sales, mare sales, (all of them!) go the the stallion parades)
3 go home and do some more research.....

as soon as you think you know enough to dive in, stop and do some more research!........


what will you do with the foal?

if you send it to the sales, it will be about £1500 for sale prep and entry fees, and if it makes 800 then you have lost that 10k you started out with OR you can have it trained which will set you back 1k per month minimum + vets bills + travelling expenses etc etc.

It is a tough industry, there is a reason why the best players stay at the top and the smaller operations struggle and often go out of business, and that reason would be.............................................. Money!

(and lack of research!)
 
Some vague figures for this year from a mare syndicate I have an interest in:

Mare bought at Sales in November €13,000 (i/f) plus €780 in commission and €500 in agent's fees

Livery per year €12,000+ for mare, plus a separate keep fee for the foal from September when weaned adding several thousand to the bill!

Vet repro package €850 (drugs not included came to another €150 or so)

Foaling down €800

Stud fee €8,500 (and that's with a discount/deal) plus a walk-in fee of €250

Farriery for the year about €500 (trims only, front shoes whack that up)

Misc. vet fees (vaccinations for m & f, bloods and micro chipping for foaletc.) - €500

That's not counting the add-ons....when the staff bandaging a leg can cost €5-10 a pop etc. it all starts to add up.
 
Just thinking out loud now, the sort of money involved in my aim of breeding from decent lines and hopefully achieving some sort of success is a high % of livery costs due to not having any facilities myself. I was wondering if it would be a possibility to find someone who does have the facilities in my local area(North-East) and becoming partners in the sense that I would purchase a nice mare and pay for all the stud fees on the basis that general livery and day to day care would be covered by my partner.

How do you find a really enthusistic, nice, trustworthy and decent person with facilities who would be interested in this type of venture, if anyone knows of such a person please let me know !

My thoughts were that with this type of overhead taken care of the amount of money available to invest in the quality of the mare purchased and the strength of the sire would be significant.

So if you are nice and interested please get in touch ! Ideally live with 25 miles of Newcastle Upon Tyne.

Rgds GMT
 
Thanks Sam & Janet, great advice I know I have a lot to learn, but ignorance is bliss and topped up with some unrealistic expectations and over/enthusiasm, im probably a lost cause, one life and all that !

But seriously I will take on board your advice and its much appreciatted, allready I have altered my strategy a little which is reflected a little in my last post on this thread, maybe I need a partner who has facilities !

Learning and listening all the time though, thanks again for you help.

RGDS GMT
 
Mare you can get from racing yards or bloodstock sales. There are thousands that brake down during racing and dont even make it to the sales as they are shot but can make good brood mares but they have broken down for a reason. Many of them have winnings under their belts.

Livery, seriously you can put your TB on grass livery for most of the year.

Its the stud livery fee you initially and finally need.

My friends breed and sales prep themselves. If you know about young stock and how to handle get them leading out and the youngsters are long reined around a field everyday a couple of months before the sales. They are very well bred but they get hardly anything for them and I think they are considering giving up and breeding heavy horses.

You can throw as much money at it as you want but if you want to be involved then you can do as much yourself as you want.
 
Thanks Kaylum, I suspected as much that many fantasticly bred horses will not make to the racetrack for various reasons which would not effect there broodmare capabilities other than the fact that they are unproven !

Is it relistic to send a standard letter to every decent trainer and ask if they have anything that needs a good home ?

Any views appreciated

I did send a letter to Mark Johnstones stable in Middleham a few years ago asking if they had any horses retiring for my daughter, I got a lovely reply from his wife and she actually rang me as she was boarding a helicopter to go to the races in Ireland one Saturday, she was so helpful for an obviously wealthy and busy lady, she was very keen on finding good homes for the horses who hadnt made it, it didnt work out unfortunately as at the time my daughter wasnt good enough a rider for a horse fresh out of a racing stables. Just thought I would add this as its always stuck in my head how decent Mrs Johnstone was and how much she cared about her horses.
 
Unfortunatly laws of breeding rubbish + rubbish = rubbish

On a plus point a mare with good breeding but useless race record should be cheap to buy.
 
Go to doncaster bloodstock sales and have a look round but dont go with a view to buy just look and get the feel of the place, also we used to do TB stallion parades their many many years ago, dont know if they do them anymore but well worth a look if they do.
 
GMT said:
Thanks Kaylum, I suspected as much that many fantasticly bred horses will not make to the racetrack for various reasons which would not effect there broodmare capabilities other than the fact that they are unproven !

Is it relistic to send a standard letter to every decent trainer and ask if they have anything that needs a good home ?

Any views appreciated

I did send a letter to Mark Johnstones stable in Middleham a few years ago asking if they had any horses retiring for my daughter, I got a lovely reply from his wife and she actually rang me as she was boarding a helicopter to go to the races in Ireland one Saturday, she was so helpful for an obviously wealthy and busy lady, she was very keen on finding good homes for the horses who hadnt made it, it didnt work out unfortunately as at the time my daughter wasnt good enough a rider for a horse fresh out of a racing stables. Just thought I would add this as its always stuck in my head how decent Mrs Johnstone was and how much she cared about her horses.
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Ive got a mare that might suit you that i'm looking to rehome for free as long as it is the right home and she wont be passed on.
Shes won a couple of races and produced a winner over hurdles.
She has unfortunately been dumped on me and when i spoke to the owner the other day they said just pts they dont want her back.
Shes 13 and reproductively sound so just trying to rehome her somewhere suitable as dont think it is right to pts .
She had a yearling go through Tattersalls last week by a very unfashionable stallion for 6k so she must throw good looking stock as most have sold well.
She ran 20 times so a sound mare .
 
Oh I can completely understand why you'd want to do what your planning - but as a few others have said I think its a huge risk. I promise I'm not being negative just cautious.

The country is awash with unwanted stock just now with some of the Thoroughbred studs in ireland not even allowing the mares to foal before sending them to the abattoir as unfortunately (for some) the bottom has fallen out of the market a bit.

However it could mean a good opportunity to pick up a quality mare but think your looking at having to spend a fair bit more than £2k. Re the stallion again if your wanting something with good winning form again you'll have to stump up more than your planning.

If part of this is for your daughter to gain experience (and if she couldn't get work at a stud) I'd have thought of looking at producing a good quality sports horse instead. Get a niceish mare around your budget and be able to get a really nice stallion too which has lots of prodgeny on the ground to let you assess what ability he is likely to pass onto your foal.
 
I have to strongly disagree with the fact that you need £££ for a top mare and £££ for the best stallion- prices are all set on fashion and trends!! You can buy a beautiful mare with impeccable breeding and damline full of black type for £1500 ish. Also use an out of fashion stallion or an up and coming stallion and the stud fee is as little as £1k. You don't have to spend spend spend just to follow what everyone else is doing and what's in fashion!

Just because something is not expensive and the stallion is not expensive does not mean that it can't be a good horse, especially if you are wanting to produce a NH horse.
I could give you so many examples but good luck!

& whoever it was that was going to get a horse from Johnstons- don't touch, trainers don't buy them because they don't train on well, they are basically knackered when they leave his yard..
 
I've always dreamed of breeding a NH horse (although I probably never will). A stallion who has great statistics is Midnight Legend. His stud fee is 4K though.

http://pitchallstud.co.uk/ml.html

There are a couple of mares by Mtoto at the sales Janet George linked to. I LOVE Mtoto. He also happens to be the sire of Presenting, (whose stud fee is a whole lot more than 4K!) sire of Gold Cup winners Denman and War of Attrition and Grand National winner Ballabriggs amongst countless other top quality NH horses.
 
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