how do you get a horse into an outline???

[Nightmare before Christmas]

Haha tbh I wouldnt have taken offence. Dressage stuff isnt my area but I do try hard to produce a showjumper who goes well on the flat as I think its important. Even with my illegal tack haha. I love your ponies! They look like great fun! I want one now

 

[JFTDWS]

Haha tbh I wouldnt have taken offence. Dressage stuff isnt my area but I do try hard to produce a showjumper who goes well on the flat as I think its important. Even with my illegal tack haha. I love your ponies! They look like great fun! I want one now

Isn't showjumping just dressage with obstacles and more tack? My highland wears a standing to play horseball, 5 point breast girth for hacking and jumping (for me to cling on to) and a pelham to show. I don't think my tack choices are any more defensible

Thanks they are great fun - if you ever want to downsize, go highland

 

[Nightmare before Christmas]

It is a sort of dressage with jumps I guess! Working on flying changes and improving the canter atm! All to make jumping easier tbh I dont see why you should defend tack anyway they are our horses that we ride so doesnt really affect anyone else if I had room for another I would get one to enjoy but my mares come back into work as she failed to get in foal this year so no room for another one

 

[PolarSkye]

smiley smiley, what a cute pic

Awwwwwwwwwww - thank you . Em was probably 11 or 12 at the time . . . it was the first time she had ever sat on Nell who had been taken to a local show as company on the lorry for a couple of stressy warmbloods - as a thank you from the owners of the WBs for all Em's help fetching and carrying for them at the show they entered her and Nell in a maxi-cob class . . . hence the get up . . . borrowed and far too big (and incorrect) jacket, dark jods, chaps, and lack of appropriate turnout for the pony . . . but Em and Nell were little stars - Nell cantered beautifully in company and really caught the judge's eye. He said he couldn't place them b/c of the (lack of) turnout but really rated the pony (he rode her) and thought Em was a tidy rider. It was a lovely day - and the beginning of a wonderful year with the gorgeous Nelly. Still miss that pony.

P

 

[JFTDWS]

Awwwwwwwwwww - thank you . Em was probably 11 or 12 at the time . . . it was the first time she had ever sat on Nell who had been taken to a local show as company on the lorry for a couple of stressy warmbloods - as a thank you from the owners of the WBs for all Em's help fetching and carrying for them at the show they entered her and Nell in a maxi-cob class . . . hence the get up . . . borrowed and far too big (and incorrect) jacket, dark jods, chaps, and lack of appropriate turnout for the pony . . . but Em and Nell were little stars - Nell cantered beautifully in company and really caught the judge's eye. He said he couldn't place them b/c of the (lack of) turnout but really rated the pony (he rode her) and thought Em was a tidy rider. It was a lovely day - and the beginning of a wonderful year with the gorgeous Nelly. Still miss that pony.

P

Lovely story, PS, sounds like a great little mare!

 

[Booboos]

What an interesting thread! Can I play even though I haven't offered any CC? (for what it's worth I have read the whole thread and I agree with Wagtail's comments).

So....R as a 6 year old

this is an interesting one, same year, it was right at the end of a novice test and I think he was getting tired:

here he was about 8 years old

about 9

about 10

And about 13...who says horses don't improve with age!

 

[Wagtail]

What an interesting thread! Can I play even though I haven't offered any CC? (for what it's worth I have read the whole thread and I agree with Wagtail's comments).

So....R as a 6 year old

this is an interesting one, same year, it was right at the end of a novice test and I think he was getting tired:

here he was about 8 years old

about 9

about 10

And about 13...who says horses don't improve with age!

Stunning horse, Booboos. And a lovely example of how a green young horse that is on the forehand, matures and is able to lift his front end and work in a very pleasing outline. You are a good rider. If anything you have a tendency to lift your hands a little too high (as in the canter pic) but only very slightly. Your horse looks as though he is working well from behind with an active hind leg. Love his graceful neck!

 

[FfionWinnie]

I like your horse booboos. Wrong colour for me but otherwise looks grand

 

[bex1984]

Lovely story, PS, sounds like a great little mare!

I agree, Nelly is gorgeous.

oooo JFTD your Highland looks lovely!

 

[LaurenBay]

Very proud of Ruby last night.

We went for a hack and bearing this thread in mind, I really tried hard to get her to work from behind and really lift her hinds under her. Didn't fiddle with my reins but kept a contact. She lifted her head high in the trot (she was quite on her toes yesterday as was windy and we were hacking alone!) but once in walk, she really started stepping under and voila she lowered her head. Now it wasn't perfect by any means but it is a step in the right direction. I asked her to keep it for 5 minutes then let her have her head again as she isn't quite strong enough yet to maintain it for a long length and I want to take it slow.

I had knowone to take a photo though so can't post for CC (although its a shame as there would have been loads to give!)

 

[Booboos]

Many thanks for the CC Wagtail! I know what you mean about the hands! When I look at the photos they look high to me too, but when I ride they feel low (shows you how much of a lack of true feel I have!). He has always found it easy to extend...by loading the forehand, collection doesn't come easy to him, but hopefully we'll have another 6 years to improve!

FfionWinnie: I am cursed, I have had three greys in a row! Everytime I set out to buy any colour but grey and then this happens!

 

[KVH]

FfionWinnie: I am cursed, I have had three greys in a row! Everytime I set out to buy any colour but grey and then this happens!

Sounds familiar..

 

[Mypinkpony]

This thread has been so helpful! I really didn't realise how much you can tell by a photo and the couple of pictures i have really arent't quite as nice as i had thought!! I have always known that i have a tendancy to tip forward and straighten my arms but i can also see that the saddle is far too forward and my legs, everything needs to be tilted back. I am having lessons every week now and she has helped soo much but i still struggle with tilting forward no matter how much she corrects me i just slip forward again? any suggestions?

I've had to raid his old owners photos and a pic of my friend ridding as i delete all pictures of him like this on my phone as i need no reminding of his head carriage lol so please no crit on the following 2 pics....i just wanted an example of his chosen way to go round the ring

so thats his head carriage with any contact.

These 2 you can crit as much as you wish.... this is me in my lessons with him trying my very best to get him behind my leg...and it's bloody hard work!

He has no backend muscle and its so hard to build it as i find it near on impossible to get him working it! he's improved a tad as when i got him 8 months ago he's just been chilling in a field for a couple of years with the odd hack....this is the day i got him!

P.s so sorry for the huge photos i have no idea how to make them smaller....

 

[dafthoss]

Go on then I'm prepared to be told that we are useless (well I am, pony is quite capable but blimin aqward about it). He has a horses body and pony legs so tracking up isnt easy for him and I have a tendancy to hunch from riding several small ponies that will try to have me off occasionally and drop my hands which I cant find a reason for but it really annoys me in photos.

this is last summer

last winter after an autumn and winter of just hacking

lesson this spring

 

[Wagtail]

MyPinkPony, You have a major battle on your hands I see. The photo of him the day he arrived shows a horse that is built massively down hill and with a ewe neck. It looks as though you have managed to put a bit of top line on that neck but he is still very down hill. Your saddle does not look a good fit on him (possibly too wide?) and is tipping you forwards quite badly. This will not be helping things! In fact, you can see how the saddle lifts right up at the back. It is also too far forward. You are also very stiff through your arms and are fixing your hands downwards, probably in an attempt to keep his head down? Fix the saddle problems and I think you will have an easier time of it.

 

[Wagtail]

Dafthoss, I love your pony. He looks really content and listening to you in all of the photographs. I am not too fussed that ALL horses have to track up. Some are just not built that way. He is moving forwards well and that is what counts. Regarding your position, you are right that you do slump a little bit and allow your back to round. This results in your core weakening and your legs riding up a little. Try stretching your back upwards and sinking your weight into your heels. You also need to carry your hands a little as there is a slight break in the line from your elbow to the bit in some of the photos. All in all though, you are working your pony really well.

 

[Mypinkpony]

MyPinkPony, You have a major battle on your hands I see. The photo of him the day he arrived shows a horse that is built massively down hill and with a ewe neck. It looks as though you have managed to put a bit of top line on that neck but he is still very down hill. Your saddle does not look a good fit on him (possibly too wide?) and is tipping you forwards quite badly. This will not be helping things! In fact, you can see how the saddle lifts right up at the back. It is also too far forward. You are also very stiff through your arms and are fixing your hands downwards, probably in an attempt to keep his head down? Fix the saddle problems and I think you will have an easier time of it.

Thanks Wagtail! It's the biggest battle ever lol I just put a XC photo thread up... you can see just how 'special' he is lol

I had the saddle re-flocked about 2 weeks ago, long after all these pics and he said exactly as you did that it tilts forward so he has stuffted it out at the front and said it will do for now, won't cause him any pain, just not ideal for me and to save up for a new one.

 

[Minstrel_Ted]

Can I ask for some CC, 5 year old clydesdale, doing prelim out and about, aim to attempt a novice late 2012 early 2013.

He does go behind the vertical at times but tends to go in front of it, there is no forcing what I do in my lessons is ask him to drop with my outside hand, he drops down gets rewarded, ask him to hold for a few strides which he does, and now as he is getting stronger he is holding it for much longer then he did originally. Hope that makes sense. I do go relatively tense at competition and tend to display my worst riding!!

Those links don't appear to have worked on my machine so just in case
http://www.flickr.com/photos/87118888@N02/7979276866/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/87118888@N02/7979277600/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/87118888@N02/7979276325/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/87118888@N02/7979276325/in/photostream

 

[Wagtail]

Can I ask for some CC, 5 year old clydesdale, doing prelim out and about, aim to attempt a novice late 2012 early 2013.

Have tried to get photos to show.

I do not envy you riding a HW at dressage. They are often quite hard work. The nicest photograph IMO is the canter one. Yo sit quite well and your contact looks nice. There is a slight tendeny in some of the photographs to fix your hands downwards, but not badly. You maintain a nice bend in your elbow and your reins ar a perfect length. You do have a tendency to bring your heel up when your leg is on. This may either be because you are gripping up with your knees, or that you are not transferring enough weight into the heel, either due to habit or your stirrups being a hole too long. Your lovely horse is moving quite well, but is on his forehand and dragging his quarters along slightly in one of the pics.

 

[Cortez]

MPP, as someone else has said, you are fighting with this horse's conformation as much as anything else, with a low front end, weak loin, upside down and badly placed neck and straight hind legs I don't think you could have chosen a worse horse for dressage! So well done you for trying to "fix" him. Unfortunately doing things like you are doing in the 3rd picture will not help - this only puts more presure on the lower bars of the horse's mouth and your arms are locked almost completely straight so there can be no give from you at all. The first 2 pictures are pretty horrific - why do you think he was doing this?

Oh, and just to add - why are you trying to get him "behind" your leg? The rest of us are striving as hard as we can to get them in front of ours!

 

[Amaranta]

Can I ask for some CC, 5 year old clydesdale, doing prelim out and about, aim to attempt a novice late 2012 early 2013.

He does go behind the vertical at times but tends to go in front of it, there is no forcing what I do in my lessons is ask him to drop with my outside hand, he drops down gets rewarded, ask him to hold for a few strides which he does, and now as he is getting stronger he is holding it for much longer then he did originally. Hope that makes sense. I do go relatively tense at competition and tend to display my worst riding!!

Those links don't appear to have worked on my machine so just in case
http://www.flickr.com/photos/87118888@N02/7979276866/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/87118888@N02/7979277600/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/87118888@N02/7979276325/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/87118888@N02/7979276325/in/photostream

Actually I absolutely love him, he looks to have lovely active paces and cannot agree that he is trailing his hindquarters, he does have an active canter but is actually btv in this picture. He has a big powerful front but you have him going forward in general, lots and lots of transitions will help him lift that front and, as long as you are forward he won't go btv.

I suspect he will do very well at Novice, some judges may not like him but personally I look at how a horse is moving for his type rather than how flashy the paces are, you see a lot of flashy but incorrect paces and your chap seems to be very correct. I would expect any horse at prelim to be on his forehand slightly (imho he is not terribly so anyway), I would like to see him a little(and only a very little) more in self carriage for novice, but still think he will do very well.

 

[siennamum]

Can I ask for some CC, 5 year old clydesdale, doing prelim out and about, aim to attempt a novice late 2012 early 2013.

He does go behind the vertical at times but tends to go in front of it, there is no forcing what I do in my lessons is ask him to drop with my outside hand, he drops down gets rewarded, ask him to hold for a few strides which he does, and now as he is getting stronger he is holding it for much longer then he did originally. Hope that makes sense. I do go relatively tense at competition and tend to display my worst riding!!

He is seriously nice and looks like he could do a really good test.

He is really powerful & active (as is my youngster) and you do all the things that I also do which don't neccessarily help him. You perch a bit and fix your hands, which blocks all that fantastic energy. You especially fix your inside hand and that is a cardinal sin. I would aim to really support all that energy with your outside hand to give him plenty of consistency to work with, he has a lot going on in the back leg department and needs to feel confident enough to really stretch into a supporting contact. If your thumb isn't on top and your hands are on the pommel you won't have a sufficiently elastic contact to give him that confidence. Reward with the inside rein, see if you can start to have slack in it.
He is stunning though & how uphill is he!

 

[Minstrel_Ted]

Thanks folks He does have a really active hind end. I think I am probably gripping with my knees, its an old habit since I damaged my knee x country but I am getting much better, at times I think I might try spurs even dummys as for some reason when they are on I am more aware of my heel and lower leg and its position. I have backed him and worked with him myself so I am always happy to listen to any advice, he tends to get mid 60s for his dressage at prelim. I used to keep my hands at my belly button but was told by an instructor to lower them to give him a space to move out into. But as I said I am always much more tense at comps which are where those pictures were taken.

I find the biggest way to get him to lift his front more in the canter is asking him to really open up, I do it occasionally in the school and the canter then really comes up in front. I have patiently waited for him to find his own carriage and I know there is still longer to wait but he is about to have a little break for 2 weeks and will then pick up to go to the petplan arenas. Medium trot is a work in progress, he can hold about 3 strides and then he forges and so I half halt.

As I said any help is much appreciated, and thank you for your kind words

 

[Holly Hocks]

I would not offer any comments on riding as unless something sticks out like a sore thumb I wouldn't feel qualified to comment, but just one comment

Dafthoss - out of all the pics of horses that have been posted yours is just absolutely gorgeous - my absolute favourite (after my own of course! )

 

[dressagelove]

I worry about my ability to get a horse into an outline, because my lad just 'does' it, he has such natural carriage, even on the lunge with no side reins, he goes in an outline. I am very fortunate, but it will be interesting to see when I break in my youngster in a few years whether I actually can ride or whether my current lad spoils me!

This is he: Any comments and CC for me too pleeeease ?

 

[ClassicG&T]

With my pony i was told to get him straight, steady rhythem, listening to me and not running away when i used my leg. Also lots of circles and leg yield and shoulder in. This took 2 years, then eventually we got a lovely outline and he was lovely to ride.

With my youngster i am told to get him of my leg, straight, a good active rhythem and responding to my leg and not taking it as "faster" but also move over or bend round on corners. I must achieve all of them before i can get a soft outline. I also lunge him with a pessoa and lungie bungie to get him using his back and hind more. We are getting there but patience is essential.

 

[TigerTail]

DL are you still using a flash? I really see no need for it He looks relaxed enough in all the pics not to be needing it.

You have a lovely stable leg position, Need to think about keeping eyes up more to help you not to round your shoulders and reaching forwards with your hands. I think you are also collapsing your rib cage so think about an elastic bungee coming out of the top of your hat, you want to be flexible to absorb the movement but not bent like a banana!

 

[Mypinkpony]

MPP, as someone else has said, you are fighting with this horse's conformation as much as anything else, with a low front end, weak loin, upside down and badly placed neck and straight hind legs I don't think you could have chosen a worse horse for dressage! So well done you for trying to "fix" him. Unfortunately doing things like you are doing in the 3rd picture will not help - this only puts more presure on the lower bars of the horse's mouth and your arms are locked almost completely straight so there can be no give from you at all. The first 2 pictures are pretty horrific - why do you think he was doing this?

Oh, and just to add - why are you trying to get him "behind" your leg? The rest of us are striving as hard as we can to get them in front of ours!

LOL i meant in front ha ha sorry......
I know i couldn't of got a worse project but he's such a sweet horse and free schooled he's got the most amazing paces i have ever seen, tack him up and he's a different horse so frustrating! He's has the potential to be amazing but he has clearly been ruined along the line somewhere between the age of 4-7.... he's 11 now and has been that way since his old owner got him. I know i locked my arms, i saw it after in the picture but it was the first EVER time i managed him to lower so just got too excited prob lol but he's better now and so am i but i do still tilt forward Dressage isn't my thing but ODE is what i want to do so hence working so hard on it! He's full loan view to buy, but i can only buy him if i see proof that he can change, he's got slightly better but miles to go... As for why he's doing it? not sure, it's kinda a evasion from him, he's has the most fabulous under neck muscle and you can't beat it(and he knows that), just trying my best to weaken it but i'm fighting against 11 years of him running round like a lama!

 

[FfionWinnie]

FfionWinnie: I am cursed, I have had three greys in a row! Everytime I set out to buy any colour but grey and then this happens!

Lol. My last horse was a grey but still quite black while I had her. Put her on loan and she came back very faded

 

[FfionWinnie]

Mpp your horse looks quite angry in all the pics. Have you ruled out pain for this behaviour? It looks like you are improving him but just wondering why he is so tricky under saddle.