How do you shoot a head shy horse?

[JavaJaneW]

No idea how to answer the OP, but having lost two horses I wanted to add my bit.

My plan for Eric was to have him loaded and taken away so I wouldn't witness the end, however, he decided that he wanted to stay put and for the first time in his life, wouldn't load. He was shot in the street before he became even more distressed.

Phantom, suddenly very ill in a day, waited for rachel to come home, loaded well (he was going to be stabled) but died in the lorry after collapsing, with her beside him. (which was convenient really)

Afterwards, she saw him and recognised that he was just a body and not her pony and it was easier.I don't think about what happens after, the bodies are disposed of in whatever way the knacker man does it.
They are just that, bodies. I wouldn't have considered cremation and ashes ( I heard a story about someone doing that and ending up with not just her horse), we can remember them as they were, have a piece of tail and can think about them whenever, don't need a memorial to do that, the memories are all in the heart.

That makes me sound really hard, but truthfully (and today is the one year date of losing Phantom) I was truly distraught and for days and weeks not a day went without a tear, and even now they can fall.

Totally pointless post really, in an otherwise interesting thread.

 

[Persephone]

My vet has a silencer on his gun. The noise was just a dull thwack really.

There were people a hundred feet away and they didn't even hear it.

Jo

 

[Tankey]

QR

I would like to let those who are concerned, that good old Thomas made it through the night to be another day older.
He doesnt seem bothered at all by my thinking and talking about his sad demise when the time comes, and the conversation with him this morning about guns and zoos didnt even put him off his breakfast

He did tell me, however, that he is glad I am thinking about it and that I have an action plan because he may die in a minute or then again he may die in 5 years, but at the end of the day, he is a horse and he couldnt care less how it happens, as long as he is looked after on a day to day basis and is fed and kept warm...always good to plan ahead I say

 

[Happy Horse]

[ QUOTE ]
They sedate them and have them standing in a very thick bed, once the dope has kicked in some1 lifts the front leg on the side they want them to go down, the horse is then guided down onto that knee where he then just falls over gentally onto his side, THEN the euthanisia is administered. It be quite expensive but it is worth it IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds very idyllic but in reality I can't see any vet going along with this. Heavy sedation slows the heart rate down to such an extent that the Somulose will not have the correct action to bring about a swift death this is why injection is not recommended for horses that have lost a lot of blood. This way may be better for you but not for the horse.

My own horse was PTS by injection, unsedated, a large bolus of the drug and he was gone before he hit the floor. I left before the lorry came to take him away. I didn't want this to be my last memory even though I had seen lots of horses being loaded before.

I have assisted with many euthanasias by both gun and injection as a veterinary nurse and either in the hands of an experienced practitioner are totally humane.

 

[Vicki1986]

i think this is the longest thread i have ever seen on here?!

When the time comes - I am just really hoping I will have time to groom and plait my girl up; shes quite a tarty one and gets excited as soon as shes plaited, be nice for her to go out thinking she is off to a pony party.

I will have the hunt come for her. I have no reason not to, especially as its her favourite thing to do - sounds a bit weird that I suppose.

I have been present when horses have been PTS by the vet in the past and it choked me up but nothing like it would having to loose my girl as she is the love of my life. But there we are, thats life for you.

I cant see anything wrong with sending your horse to the hounds/zoo, especially as it costs so much to cremate them and burying isnt really allowed these days. So it doesnt leave you with a great deal of choice!

 

[Shilasdair]

QR
A few points - 'euthanasia' is derived from the Greek (I think) for 'good death' and can refer to an animal PTS by any method; it does not refer specifically to lethal injections.
Secondly - whilst the idea of a horse curling up in a 'very thick bed' under sedation prior to injection may sound idyllic, the resultant nightmare of getting 500 - 800kg of deadweight horse through a stable door may be less so.

I appreciate not everyone has the chance to get their horse out of the stable, but if your yard has a school, and some tarp. til the disposal transport comes, that's better for all concerned.
S

 

[CVSHotShot]

Shilasdair, Another Point- the term 'Put To Sleep' is also an interpretation form the Greek *I believe* insinuating that the horse/animal was killed with as little distress and horror (not only to horse but also to owner) as possible by having the animal 'appear' to be falling asleep

'Some vets perform a two-stage process: An initial injection that simply renders the pet unconscious and a second shot that kills it. This allows the owner the chance to say goodbye to a live pet without their emotions stressing the pet.'

 

[hellsdarkrose]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm gonna have my old lad cremated and made into a diamond.....then he will be with me forever.......yes I know pukey but thats my choice.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't know you could do that with horse ashes. Any links to info on how it is done?

 

[Tia]

I'm sorry, but the animal should come first. Whatever way is chosen for the animal to be killed, has to be first and foremost, in the ANIMAL'S best interests - NOT the human's.

BNM, if you truly believe that this is how your horse is going to be killed, then I feel for you, because you will get the shock of your life unless you wake up and realise that it just does not happen like that; hence this thread, encouraging everyone to think outside the box and understand that they may need to consider a Plan B for when it doesn't work out the way they expected.

For me, the most important things when one of my horse's are being killed are, being with the animal right up to the point of death, not blubbing like some nut in front of the living animal, making sure you don't leave it too late, and chosing the correct procedure for the situation. Emotions are something to be left for later. BTW, to the person who said they sat down with their animals after they had gone; that's exactly what I do too. I talk to them the whole way through and it's only once their heart has stopped beating that I let my emotions come out.

Tankey - good thread. Lots of information for those who have never witnessed this, lots of advice for those who may have to go through it and hopefully even cathartic to those who have gone through it with their much loved horse.

 

[Doublethyme]

I think its down to personal choice and totally agree that these things should be thought of and discussed before hand if at all possible.

Certainly for me, it was always a vague thought in the back of my head, but couldn't possibly apply, as my mare was only 10 and would be with me for years and years - until that is she broke her knee in a field accident and went from being a bundle of super fit energy to dead in 3 hours.......

I had her injected as we were at the vets for x-rays anyway and that is what the vets suggested (I wasn't in any state to really take it in anyway!) and cremated (yes soppy, but hey each to their own).

One thing I would disagree with is the information on here that sedation and the injection don't work. Certainly in my mare's case she was HEAVILY sedated because we had to transport her to the vets (yes with hindsight something I wouldn't have done, but at that point my vet thought it worth x-rays as there was a chance at that point).

She had still more sedation for the x-rays, so she was pretty zonked, yet she went swiftly and very peacefully when the injection was done and yes my vets allowed me a few minutes in between to say goodbye.

Personally if I had a head shy horse I think I would go for injection (assuming of course the horse was OK with injections), alternatively if it was a vet/injection phobic horse, I'd probably have it shot, I really don't see a right or wrong route, although I personally don't like it when the decision is purely financial, but them maybe I'm just too pink and fluffy!!!

 

[CVSHotShot]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but the animal should come first. Whatever way is chosen for the animal to be killed, has to be first and foremost, in the ANIMAL'S best interests - NOT the human's

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree! My horse comes first over me everyday! Death will be no different. Like I said in one of my previous posts, If the horse is suffering then i think it is only fair that he is put out of his misery ASAP, if this means shooting, then I wouldnt think twice. It would be incredibly hard for me to watch but it would be in the best interest of the horse...

 

[CVSHotShot]

[ QUOTE ]
I think its down to personal choice and totally agree that these things should be thought of and discussed before hand if at all possible.

Certainly for me, it was always a vague thought in the back of my head, but couldn't possibly apply, as my mare was only 10 and would be with me for years and years - until that is she broke her knee in a field accident and went from being a bundle of super fit energy to dead in 3 hours.......

I had her injected as we were at the vets for x-rays anyway and that is what the vets suggested (I wasn't in any state to really take it in anyway!) and cremated (yes soppy, but hey each to their own).

One thing I would disagree with is the information on here that sedation and the injection don't work. Certainly in my mare's case she was HEAVILY sedated because we had to transport her to the vets (yes with hindsight something I wouldn't have done, but at that point my vet thought it worth x-rays as there was a chance at that point).

She had still more sedation for the x-rays, so she was pretty zonked, yet she went swiftly and very peacefully when the injection was done and yes my vets allowed me a few minutes in between to say goodbye.

Personally if I had a head shy horse I think I would go for injection (assuming of course the horse was OK with injections), alternatively if it was a vet/injection phobic horse, I'd probably have it shot, I really don't see a right or wrong route, although I personally don't like it when the decision is purely financial, but them maybe I'm just too pink and fluffy!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

What a Brilliant post! I think youve summed up everything I wanted to say only in a lot less words...and probably alot less to get jumped on about

 

[alison247]

Tia you are right reading this thread has been cathartic for me as it is still very recent and raw for me.
It has opened my eyes to how we all deal with this.
My vet advised that we did not witness our beloved pony go down or when he was removed.
He was very heavily sedated. Our vet is the clinic anethestist(sp) so very experienced in getting it right.
He had his head in a bucket and got heavier and heavier to hold up.He swayed alot also. She nodded at us when it was time to go and we went indoors.My last view of him was with his head between his knees and they were turning him around. Presumably to position him for the winch.
We came back out 4mins later and he was stone cold.
What I have found upsetting is that his teeth were exposed as if he had died in pain.(still had alpha a in his mouth!)
My regret is that I left him before lethal jab ,.in that I have all sorts of thoughts about him going down and knowing he was dying although he was so far gone when we left he didn't notice.
I hope that he didnt feel anything but I probably wear pink specs!
I wish this thread had been posted before as I found it very lonely going through it on my own IYKWIM.
He couldnt go to the zoo like our youngster cos of the drugs so we chose comm cremation and no ashes.
Always planned to bury him at home but as we are not going to get another one we are selling up and I would hate to leave him behind!
At least others will read all these posts and become more aware of this circle of life.
I knew for 4mths that the day would come and I struggled because I was so frightened about it but it was so much easier than I thought.
Maybe because my wonderful vet was so caring and quiet and we were all very calm.

 

[Shilasdair]

[ QUOTE ]
Shilasdair, Another Point- the term 'Put To Sleep' is also an interpretation form the Greek *I believe* insinuating that the horse/animal was killed with as little distress and horror (not only to horse but also to owner) as possible by having the animal 'appear' to be falling asleep
<font color="blue">I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, BNM? My point was that euthanasia is the term used to cover all methods of humane destruction, also known as putting to sleep colloquially. </font>
'Some vets perform a two-stage process: An initial injection that simply renders the pet unconscious and a second shot that kills it. This allows the owner the chance to say goodbye to a live pet without their emotions stressing the pet.'

[/ QUOTE ]
<font color="blue"> This reads as though Googled from somewhere like Wikipedia? Again, I'm not sure what you are trying to say? In an ideal world, injections work every time, quickly and peacefully. In the real world, they don't always, and this should be taken into account when making your choice. Shooting is probably better for the horse, in that death is instant - no brain, no feeling. Injection is probably better for the human watching, as there is no obvious 'wound' nor blood, but has more potential for going wrong (IME) than shooting, and is quite distressing if that happens.
I'm glad you are realistic about the necessity of one or other method, eventually though.
S

</font>

 

[Murphy88]

[ QUOTE ]
When the time comes - I am just really hoping I will have time to groom and plait my girl up; shes quite a tarty one and gets excited as soon as shes plaited, be nice for her to go out thinking she is off to a pony party.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's quite a good idea. Although if i plaited my mare before hand she'd be spinning so fast the gun might miss!

I don't consider myself a fluffy person, and I'm fairly certain I will have both mine shot, but I do want them buried, in the field next to the old mare. I know they are dead, and it is completely for my benefit, but I just can't see myself being able to let them go. The only animal I've had cremated was my dog who I got when I was 3 - I went with her to the vets to be PTS, but I really could not stand the thought of her body coming back in the car with us.

That said, reading the posts about giving back to the hunt has made me think - Murph has hunted all his life, and his idea of the perfect end would probably be at the kennels listening to the hounds, so it might be something to consider down the line, especially as my Mum is already muttering about not enough space in the field for me to bury all my animals!

And to whoever said about shooting my Granny - if it had been possible then yes, it would have been far better than her spending 2 years in an nursing home wasting away with no idea who she was.

I think we as humans would be a lot luckier if we could be euthanised in the way animals were.

 

[GinaB]

I hope when I have my own horse that I will have it shot and taken by the hunt.

If the horse is shot, is the owner allowed to hold it? I'm not quite sure how it works TBH.

 

[at work]

Yes - in my experience at least, if you are calm and sensible they allow it

You should choose a suitable place before hand - somewhere quiet, so that the horse will be relaxed and also somewhere where they can get the lorry to the horse afterwards. Once everything is in place it is very quick.

I'm another one that leaves as soon as the horse is down, it doesn't need me anymore.

 

[Chestnuttymare]

Fascinating thread and very informative. I stayed with a friends horse last summer when she was euthanased by injection. I must admit, it was very peaceful but she was an old lady and had no fight in her, ready to go, if you like. She went down and died with her head on my knee. The worst bit was definitely her being winched onto the transport, although the driver was very nice.
I worry about it happening with my own, although the horse went what seemed quietly, i worry about the burning sensation that has been talked about. Plus, my mare being the drama queen that she is won't make things simple. I would prefer it was as quick as possible for both of my neddies.

I must admit, after reading all this, i am more leaning towards the gun now. we don't have a local hunt, does the vet normally do a good job of this as I am sure he has more experience of the injection.

I am obviously hoping that this is a long time away but 1 of them is in his 20's so it is really something i should be starting to think about.

 

[Tankey]

[ QUOTE ]

Yes that is my idea of it actually, I can have him sedated heavily first.I have actaully research this all before, this is how I have decided.
They sedate them and have them standing in a very thick bed, once the dope has kicked in some1 lifts the front leg on the side they want them to go down, the horse is then guided down onto that knee where he then just falls over gentally onto his side, THEN the euthanisia is administered. It be quite expensive but it is worth it IMO.



[/ QUOTE ]Has it occured to you that they will probably have to either dismantle your stables to get him out or chop him up to do so??

I worry that you are going to have a very nasty shock if it is pissing down with rain, six feet of mud, freezing cold, the vet is late and the farmer with his tractor wants to get a move on cos he needs to feed his cattle and it all has to be done in the middle of a field......

 

[H's mum]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was very awkward and insisted he wasn't winched onto the lorry ;-)

[/ QUOTE ] So how did he get on there then? Did they have to carry him by hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

He was PTS in the field right by the gate and it had double gates so the lorry could back up. I enlisted a bit (ok a lot!) of help and he was carried on

[/ QUOTE ]

..and you think they did that to get him off too?

Kate x

 

[Fairynuff]

There is no need to dismantle stables or chop up horses to get them out if.....you tie their legs together (at the fetlocks ) while they are still warm. They can then be manouvered easily and slid out and round to get them outside.
I had to take photos of the removal of one of my liveries (legal purposes) if anyone wants to see them. There is really nothing gruesome or upsetting about it. Ill only post them if asked. Mairi.

 

[bexandspooky]

I would be interested to see that Mairi - having an aging arthritic horse - my worried for him are that at some point in the distant future I will find him laid down, unable to get up, I have the added disadvantage of the stables facing a bank, but some very ingenious tractor/jcb drivers as friends so i am sure they could get round that.

For what it is worth - I always used to swear that I would only ever have the injection for my horses (when i was young and nieve) but over the past few years i have come to realise that there are benefits for each and I would have to think long and hard when Spooks time comes. I think i can honestly say that if i couldn't get permission to bury him in the field, then I would enquire with the local hunt and go down that route - not sure if they offer that service.

 

[Fairynuff]

I dont mind posting them but Im worried about upsetting people. The injection (here in Italy) consists of- A. a heavy sedative. B. a good belt of anaesthetic IV. when horse is down and well out of it then and only then, the lethal injection. The lethal IV goes under the name of 'Tanax' and contains embutramide as the main component. The horse knows nothing about his end and certainly doesnt suffer. The lethal injection paralyses his lungs then his heart and as its done when he is already unconscious.........! Its a very personal choice and a hard one to make.
Mairi.

 

[Penguinboots]

Thank you for posting this.
I've yet to see a horse be put down (be it with a bullet or injection), so I was fairly unaware of the ins and outs of the procedure. But now I at least have an idea of what to expect if (or when) the deed need be done.

Also has anyone realised, this is probably the one of the longest threads in the Lounge's history...second to the Parrelli one!?

 

[Law]

[ QUOTE ]

For me, the most important things when one of my horse's are being killed are, being with the animal right up to the point of death, not blubbing like some nut in front of the living animal, making sure you don't leave it too late, and chosing the correct procedure for the situation. Emotions are something to be left for later. BTW, to the person who said they sat down with their animals after they had gone; that's exactly what I do too. I talk to them the whole way through and it's only once their heart has stopped beating that I let my emotions come out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tia, this is how it was for me, thankfully. I groomed him and spent time with him in the sunshine until the vet came. Made the very sombre walk down to the bottom of the field, found somewhere flat and suitable and stood with him until he fell (I don't know why I am posting this, it has brought it all rushing back and got me weeping my eyes out)
The vet did a sterling job of keeping me right and talked to me throughout making sure that I kept together for Sammy and I let it all out afterwards. I helped do the practical bit of find the tarp in the garage and covering him over until the digger came and then I went and sat in the house whilst they put him in the hole. I made sure that the tractor man had dealt with horses and burial before and was assured that he would treat the horse with dignity (as far as possible) and after that I went to the site he was buried and said my good byes. I went there every year on the anniversary to talk to him and only stopped doing that after a few years.

[ QUOTE ]

Tankey - good thread. Lots of information for those who have never witnessed this, lots of advice for those who may have to go through it and hopefully even cathartic to those who have gone through it with their much loved horse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, good thread Tanks

 

[kirstyhen]

Henry is my first proper horse, he is my best friend, I sobbed when he came out his stable hopping on three legs, BUT he is going to be shot and given to the hunt (circumstances allowing)
In my head, he lives to hunt, he loves it, so the hounds running with him in their bellies is, in a way, a perfect end for him.
I hope I will be brave enough to see it too the end, I dread that I will start crying before the job is done. I am realistic, and fairly tough, but Hen is my special boy

IMO in isn't natural for a horse to sleep with their heads in our laps, most horses don't like lying down when there are strange people around, therefore having your horse sedated purely so you can have it die like a horse in a kids pony book, isn't particularly fair on the horse. But each to their own, at the end of the day, the result is the same.

 

[punk]

I am Scottish too!

Have been reading most (but not all - sorry too long!) of this thread!.

Have not had to put down too many in my long life but my experiences have been varied!

We had a very old pony 'given' to us when we moved to our present home as they had nowwhere to take him to. He was at least 36 when we decided that his cushings etc was causing him stress. He was led, full of beans, to a wooded area where we had already dug a hole, but he seemed to suddenly realise what was happening and became frightened. I would never go through that again, although he was pts with a FAIRLY quick injection.

My best ever horse friend had to be pts a few years later, suffering from lympho-sarcoma, and it was SUCH a different experience. We are lucky enough to have some land with wooded areas where we can bury (very lucky I know). I led him to the wood for grazing, and he was very calm. I made myself keep calm, and was hand feeding him a carrot when the vet put the injection in. I PROMISE you he was alive and eating one second, and keeled over the next - stone dead. The carrot was still in his mouth.

Only after this, did the local farmer come in and dig a hole with his JCB and finish the job for me. We then planted a tree over the grave. That was ten years ago, and we have had to pts two others in their 20's in the same way and same area. I swear they never knew anything.

WE ARE SO LUCKY to have the land to do it. I feel for you all at the most difficult of times.

 

[Wildspirit]

Agree with the above 12 pages of post

 

[Jo C]

Not usual I know but I have seen a very experienced marksman shoot one from a distance, the pony was happily grazing in a meadow and knew absolutely nothing about it. I always thought that was probably the best way to go but only if you knew the person with the gun was a good shot, this one was.

 

[The Virgin Dubble]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes that is my idea of it actually, I can have him sedated heavily first.I have actaully research this all before, this is how I have decided.
They sedate them and have them standing in a very thick bed, once the dope has kicked in some1 lifts the front leg on the side they want them to go down, the horse is then guided down onto that knee where he then just falls over gentally onto his side, THEN the euthanisia is administered. It be quite expensive but it is worth it IMO.


[/ QUOTE ]
So how does all this extensive research work, if your horse breaks a leg in the field?
Do you let it suffer while you put all your arrangements into place?

It is heartbreaking to have a much loved animal put to sleep, but when my TB mare suffered a catastrophic fracture to her upper foreleg (It was literally snapped, and the bone was sticking through), if I'd have had a gun to hand, I would have despatched her myself, there and then.

The wait for the vet to arrive was bad enough, and I cannot even begin to imagine how much pain she must have been in, so YES, when the vet shot her, she was 'put to sleep' - instantly.

There is no way on earth I would have prolonged her suffering, simply to satisfy some far fetched ideals about how death should be.

Animal or human, death is never pretty, no matter how it happens. The most we can hope for, in the case of extreme suffering, is that it is quick.