How do you shoot a head shy horse?

[PennyJ]

Believe me, 17 seems very young to me, being the wrong side of 40!

I think we are all frightened of death to some extent until we have experienced it at close hand, whether that is a much loved pet or family member. Unfortunately the older you get, the more it's likely you will experience it. I was 30-something before my first family death (grandma) it was a very odd experience viewing her body in the coffin, but I'm glad I did, her body was just a shell, "she" wasn't there any longer. I was absolutely devastated when I lost my first dog, I went into a great depression and took a year to get over it. I've lost 2 more dogs since, I've become a lot more pragmatic about it. One did go peacefully at my feet, the other one I had to pts, but it was absolutely clear to me I had to do my final duty by him and end his suffering.

If you ever have the heartbreaking experience of watching a much loved family member die a lingering death which most of them are to some extent - very few just close their eyes and never wake up again - you will probably reach the conclusion that being able to end the suffering quickly is a lucky blessing that animals are able to have. We had to do this with a very special uncle, it was unbelievably awful.

 

[brighteyes]

Y'know, you lot, it's a darned good job I had my plans sorted well in advance and didn't ask for forum help!

I did the same this time as last - a day in the field with best friend, pts by injection, closure for stablemates and burial. Only this time, I let the kids sort it. I loved her too much to watch any of it and my last memories of her are her eating happily as I walked away.

but also

As long as you have no regrets, I think it's up to the individual and though I wouldn't appreciate being called fluffy bunny club member or criticised for my choice, I think the zoo/hunt/firing- squad options are still perfectly acceptable. Just not for me. I kind of wish they were.

I hope your pony has the common sense and forethought either to die without medical (or otherwise) intervention and at least be generous enough to die in a convenient spot!

 

[Tia]

If you are interested I can post the photos on your thread in Vet? And we can discuss it there if you like

. Don't want Twanker shouting at us for hijacking!

 

[YorksG]

Excuse me, but who mentioned a firing squd? One very good very professional kancker person thank you

 

[dozzie]

Well I copped out then!

I didnt want to see my pony winched into the van. But we were still at home and would have helped if we were needed.

To me she had gone. She was dead. The only thing I did was cover her head after she had died as I didnt want the flies eating her eyes. Just find it really revolting. I said my goodbyes when the hunt arrived to collect the body and walked away.

I always get upset when one of my animals die as they are essentially pets. But to me, once they are gone they are gone. I dont get this ashes business at all. (I dont get it with people either!)

 

[Tankey]

[ QUOTE ]

I hope your pony has the common sense and forethought either to die without medical (or otherwise) intervention and at least be generous enough to die in a convenient spot!

[/ QUOTE ]I'm rather hoping that too

 

[Cop-Pop]

I don't know how I want it to end for mine - it isn't something I like to think about. I saw a horse shot when I was very young and the person who did it was very scarey and horrible so I must confess that it traumatised me a lot

I've also seen them pts by injection (when I was alot older) and the method seemed much nicer but then they can't re-use the body... It's a dilema and I can understand why people get upset by the subject but if all the options are out in the open and well discussed then I think when the time comes it might take some of the trauma away.

 

[Tankey]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are interested I can post the photos on your thread in Vet? And we can discuss it there if you like

. Don't want Twanker shouting at us for hijacking!

[/ QUOTE ]Hijack away...I am off to bed...

It has been a really interesting discussion, thank you everyone

 

[JoLane]

yes excellent see you there!

 

[BankEndRescue]

one of our loan horses had to be shot today, I was there watching and I have to say that after all the years of believing injection to be the ONLY humane way I am converted. The chap who did the deed is exceptionally preofessional and compassionate, she was sent off to be cremated and we won't be getting her ahses back as it was a communal cremation. We gave her a great last year of her life but once they are dead, they are dead and we need to remember that

 

[k9h]

Back to original post!
I think your horse will have to go to the zoo as I know we would not accept your horse as feed if sedated. Hounds are alot smaller than a lion! When we had carcasses dumped in the night they were never fed as you did not know what was in them. Not worth the risk.

On the killing side I will choose gun everytime & horse to go to hounds. Plus I would see the whole thing through to the end. It is only fair I think.
I worked on Foot & Mouth. The reason anyone can handle dead stock but you have to know what you are doing before they become dead stock. Plus once they were dead I still made sure that they were handled with respect & dignity.

It is how I have been brought up.

My Mum had a nasty fall down stairs, massive brain hemmorage when we turned the life support machine off the next day (had to wait for surgery team as donating organs) I sat with her as did my Brother & her Brother. It took nearly an hour for her to finally give up & die (even though she was brain dead).
You would be strung up if you did that to an animal.
Another dear friend passed away just before Xmas (she had a stroke back in May, some may remember I posted asking for vibes).
Her body never recovered from the stroke but her mind did. That must be hell trapped in a body that does not work. The doctors told the husband that the best thing would be to remove the food tube (effectively starve her to death). The daughter is a vet & she said I would be strung up if I did that to an animal. He said if she had been on life support machine then he could of turned that off but sadly she was not. Her last 7months was not dignified at all for her. She was such a prim & propper Lady & did not deserve that at all.

Oh & the shooting Gran thing. Yes I would with my Dads mother as she is an evil, vindictive, spiteful cow. I would not send her to hounds though I would not inflict such horror on them, they dont deserve that neither!

 

[palomino698]

I've had two very elderly ponies PTS by our wonderful huntsman. They were both still able to travel and I boxed them up to the hunt kennels (a few months apart). Our huntsman is experienced, quick, utterly professional and extremely kind. The ponies were so excited to hear hounds, the gun is behind the ear, not into the forehead, and the pony doesn't see it. The local knackers are apparently also very good at what can be a terribly emotional time.

Our small pets are buried in the garden, the big dogs were sent by the vet for mass cremation. It really doesn't matter where their bodies are, the memories are with us forever.

I support organ donation and think the hunt (or zoo) provides the ultimate recycling service. I think a body is just a shell and when it's no longer needed by the animal (or person) that was living in it, there is just no reason to cling onto its ashes. My daughter was only 9 when her first pony was PTS and she still keeps the last day's photos with a lock of her mane, and a 'goodbye' poem, but has never had a problem with knowing she was going to hounds.

 

[brighteyes]

Sorry, know you meant one crackshot

Bit perturbed about the injection going wrong, though. Always gone perfectly OK for the ones I have seen...

 

[brighteyes]

<font color="blue"> Plus once they were dead I still made sure that they were handled with respect &amp; dignity.

It is how I have been brought up. </font>

Rightly so, both counts. Nice to see from others posting, too, circumstances permitting.

<font color="blue">Oh &amp; the shooting Gran thing. Yes I would with my Dads mother as she is an evil, vindictive, spiteful cow. I would not send her to hounds though I would not inflict such horror on them, they dont deserve that neither! </font>

But on the other hand, if she was a snappy little JRT...

 

[YorksG]

It was a little feisty 12.2 Welshie, she hated injections, was down with founder and tried to get up as the IV went in, I still wish we had ignored the vet and had the knackerman out, as she would have not fought at the end, with him.

 

[chestnut cob]

[ QUOTE ]
would just like to mention that anyone who puts their horse on loan should make sure that they leave permission with the loanee to PTS (and prob YO aswell if you are on livery and on hol/uncontactable?)

The worse thing I have ever seen was when a horse on loan to the riding school went down with a brain tumour- rapidly, I rode him on the sunday, he was dead on tuesday. The owner was rung and insisted on seeing him one last time and IMO this was selfish, the horse was in a lot of pain but she wouldn't give permission to PTS until she had seen him.

I had a loan horse at home for a bit, I made sure I had permission if the owner could not be contacted and she trusted me/vet to make an appropriate decision

[/ QUOTE ]

I have put a clause in my loan contract that my loaners can have my pony PTS in an emergency if they can't contact me. The owners of the horse I have on loan have a similar clause in our contract -that I have permission to PTS however I see fit, if I have tried reasonable means of contacting them.

 

[Tia]

And livery yard owners should also make sure they have a signed permission form also, so that in the event of not being able to get in touch with the owner, they are within their rights to give the go ahead to the vet to put horse to sleep.

 

[chestnut cob]

[ QUOTE ]
And livery yard owners should also make sure they have a signed permission form also, so that in the event of not being able to get in touch with the owner, they are within their rights to give the go ahead to the vet to put horse to sleep.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never thought about that actually Tia. Might get a bit complicated with me having one out on loan and loaning one myself, but definitely worth a thought.

As an aside...we have had a similar conversation about our old dog. I think the time is near and as he isn't enjoying life so much now, a serious discussion needs to be had. Parents (dad esp) sinks into deep depression even thinking about it so heaven knows what will happen when it really is time

. I just hope they do the right thing by the dog.

 

[Laafet]

When I ran my yard I had a 'duty of care' clause that gave me the right to make The decision if I couldn't contact the owner and I have always told livery owners/managers where I have kept my horses what I wish to happen in an emergency if I cannot be contacted and it was written into my loan agreements too.
Murphy is now on retirement livery with Tarquin's breeder, so I have told them what I wish to happen if he is not comfortable any more. He is 3 1/2 hours away from me so this is important. I would want to be there at the end but would never watch my horse be winched on a wagon again.

 

[Onyxia]

[ QUOTE ]
it disturbs me because my horse is a big part of my life, to think that all people think of their horse is to put a bullet in its head and feed it to the hounds when its old and done is greatly disturbing IMO

[/ QUOTE ]
It's not called the final act of kindness for nothing.
An old horse that needs to be PTS is better off being PTS,no way around that.Keeping an oldie and having it shot at home is about the best way a horse can go.

If you own a horse and intend to keep it for life,you have to think about your choices when the end comes.

[ QUOTE ]
also you wouldnt put a bullet in ur granny's head either would you?

[/ QUOTE ]
Given how ill mine is,that she wont recover and is herself ready to go,if it was the fastest method avalable and my choice,yes.

 

[buzzles]

I'm actually very worried about what to do when the time comes for two of mine, a little rescue pony and my beautiful chestnut boy. Both have been badly mistreated in the past and were both very headshy when they came first. While they both let me do anything with them now, they are very nervous of strangers, particularly strange men and there is no way that a strange man would get anywhere near their head. They get so worked up that treats don't work. It takes my boy ages before the dentist, vet, osteo can go near him and he's even afraid of strangers coming up to him when I'm riding him, like at prize givings he won't let the judge give the rosette to me! The little pony is even worse, although he's smaller so it's easier to handle him, he still gets very worked up

It's a real worry that when the time comes it will be very stressful for them as they are so nervous.

 

[LankyDoodle]

QR: When mare was pts last July (in extreme agony with laminitis), we HAD to walk her down the walkway to the open barn, where the lorry could get to take her away.

She could hardly place one foot in front of the other, but we spent a long long time just a step at a time, encouraging with food.

The farmer had to cover her with a sheet overnight as there was no one to come and collect until next day. He dealt with the collector in the morning, and we went when we got the call that she'd gone (to do other horse). So I didn't see how she was put on, but I do know that after we had gone, the farmer had had to move her with his tractor, so that he could shut the doors to protect other liveries.

Vet said we HAD to get her out however much pain she was in, as the alternative would be shockingly distressing for all involved. We went with it.

She had the injection, but I have no problems with the bullet. I haven't really thought about what I'll do when it's George's turn, but I'm not fluffy about it - once he's dead his spirit has gone anyway.

 

[Storminateacup]

quote] legs straight up

and there he stayed until the hunt came - I was about the only one that wasn't bothered, I was just pissed off that it had taken 2 days to get those bloody shoes on him and they were only a week old!

[/ QUOTE ]

- Oh you tough, hard horsey girls -whats so wrong with a bit of soppy sentimentality and heartfelt emotion!
Weezy you spend a lot of time with your horse(s) I feel sure so,why do you have such a hard time letting you feelings out? Bet you shed a few tears when you were on your own in reality, so why make such a joke of it all.
I do wish the "stiff upper lip set" so prevelant on this forum today, would give it a rest and realise that some people only get to have one or two horses in their lifetime, and for them the loss of that horse is a very emotional significant event.
No one wants to prolong any suffering in their horses, but euthanasia is an emotive subject and many of the contributors are young people for whom death is an issue they seldom have to confront. True they need the help of the mature contributors amongst us to point them in the righ direction as regards welfare issues, but I cannot see how all this `jokey about your horses demise`, really works. To me it just shows a weakness of a different sort and in a a way it seems like a taunt and is cruel to those that are in pain over their loss.
I am in my 50s, yet when my beautiful boy had to be PTS in 2004 I was ill for a fortnight with grief and the pain did not go for almost a year. I loved him more than many a human being I had known and he was irreplaceable. I stood with him throughout and it was as a mark of love and respect for an being that had given so much pleasure and happiness in his life.

 

[k9h]

Not all people are like that that though.

As I said before I sat with my Mum for an hour whilst her body stopped working after turning off the life support machine. I have never shed a single tear over her death. Before you ask yes I did love her &amp; we got on great.

Different people cope with death/grief in different ways.
I grew up on a farm so was surrounded with things dying but as one thing died another was born. That is how life is.

I have no doubt that when my dog dies that it will upset me I may even cry. It depends on the whole situation.
At the end of the day it is a job that HAS to be done.
I for one would like my horse/dog to go with me being cheerful for all the fun they had given me. Not a mess &amp; upset which would unsettle them.

Actually the more I think about it, I am a cold heartless bitch, that just happens to have a dog curled up on her at the moment!

 

[YorksG]

For most of the lusury of being 'ill with grief for a fortnight' is not one we can afford, with other animals to care for and demanding jobs as well. Perhaps wome of these more sensetive younger posters can learn an absolutely appropriate manner of dealing with the death of their horse.

 

[Tharg]

Cremation is bad for the environment.

 

[Donkeymad]

daretodream - just curious (sorry for going OT tankey) you say you went on a vet work experience. Are you hoping to work with animals, maybe with or as a vet?
I was a veterinary nurse years ago. One of the very first things I had to do was put down a healthy dog. A HEALTHY dog. Reasons for which I cannot give, very friendly dog too.
I would hate to think that you may be thinking of a career with animals without maybe considering the number of animals that you will undoubtedly have to deal with at the end of their lives.
In time, you will feel less uneasy about death, in animals or humans. It will hurt, no doubt, but you will be able to deal with it.

 

[wallace]

[ QUOTE ]
Because the world is fluffy and pink and wonderful

[/ QUOTE ]

Lord knows why I have wandered in here but the thread title showed up in the list of topics. Coupled with the name of the forum member I felt compelled to look, and I have to agree...The title of the thread alone should deter those of a sensitive nature from reading???

 

[TGM]

[ QUOTE ]
whats so wrong with a bit of soppy sentimentality and heartfelt emotion!

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing as long as:

1. It doesn't get in the way of the animal's welfare (which it often does when owners keep animals suffering just to spare their own emotions)

2. It doesn't lead people to criticise humane methods of euthanasia and disposal, as one of the earlier posters did.

 

[Weezy]

I wasn't joking! I actually swore, was pissed off about the shoes, then said "oh well" and shrugged my shoulders and went to organise everything. I got home, posted on here, then I cried, mostly because he wasn't insured if I am truly honest, and that I didn't know if I would be able to buy another horse immediately - strike me down! He was for sale, I had already emotionally let go of him, so to speak. So, maybe I am a hard nosed bitch, I didn't cry at my brother's funeral either, I cried the day he died and that was it - it is how I cope with MY life. Death is the only thing we are sure of in life, and to make a big deal out of it is not helpful to anyone.