How NOT to ride a young horse forward.

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The horse is now safe.

Two important things:
From the official Bill Stud Facebook page:
"The Billy Stud has never had any direct involvement with imperial horses ltd and has no association with them what so ever. This is the only official Billy Stud Facebook page."

Also:
"Imperial Equines based in West Sussex would like to officially state that we have never had any involvement whatsoever with imperial horses ltd and has had no association with them at any point. We feel a need to clarify our position as we unfortunately have a very similar name, in view of what has recently come to light. We hope this clears up any future confusion that may arise. Regards Sam Adams and Jodi Paris Streeter."

The finger should not be pointed at the wrong people, obviously.
 
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ajn1610 said:
I'm sorry that this has affected you personally Magic, it is really sad. I'm not totally clear on the point you are making though?
I understand that the owner bought the horse with the intention of producing it and selling on and that for one reason or another this didn't work out.

He was/is friends with someone who has a young daughter that was eventing his other horse. The friend persuaded him to purchase this lad as a possible eventer for her * yes possibly sell on. He only made 15hh


However the owner doesn't seem from your description to have taken much interest in what happened to the horse. It seems like they allowed a third party to sell it on to someone else without knowing who they are or checking them out at all.

The 3rd party was the woman who said she would help start him * have her daughter event him. He bought the horse in good faith he sent him to them to further his education which they failed to do. This put him in a difficult situation.


I believe that when you breed/buy/import an animal you are responsible for it. If it turns out not to be suitable for you then it's your responsibility to find it a job of work, produce it to a point where it has a chance and do your best to find it a suitable home.

Sorry but that is exactly what he tired to do, is he really responsible for someone going back on their agreement?


I'm glad the owner is trying to do the right thing and get the horse back now but it's a shame for the horse that it had to spend any time in those circumstances at all. If people took the commitment of owning a horse more seriously there would be less opportunity for Idiots like those in the video to make a living (and let me be clear I would never tire of kicking people like these, they are wholly to blame for the appauling treatment that poor animal has recieved).

In this case I do not think it a fair comment. Also as soon as he knew it was his horse he sorted it there and then.


Something is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it and this example only highlights that many many animals through no fault of their own end up in crappy situations. I can see you are genuinely upset and care what happens to this horse and I'm not trying to be inflammatory or take a pop at the owner, I'm sure that everyone went into this with the best of intentions. It just saddens me that so many people view a living sentient creature as disposable and the opportunity to turn a profit.
I've read this back and I've tried to word it very carefully. I'm honestly not trying to wind anyone up or point fingers about this particular case but I do think this typifies a problem the horse industry has and is one that many people contribute to by breeding or buying horses they are not intending to keep.
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Where do you draw the line at responsiblity? Trust me if Tic Toc's owner had any idea this would happen he would rather have put the horse down. He is a young horse there is nothing that we are aware of that makes him unsuitable to find a new home. My daughter found him very easy to deal with. People can not always justify the cost of a horse just in case it MIGHT end up with morons. He trusted his friend to find this youngster a new home, or so I am led to believe. I know that he was for sale earlier in the year because he was let down. He was started, returned to them * again they did not carry on with his education due to time constraints. At some point you have to cut your losses, not at the sake of the animal, but either you sell or you PTS.
 
amymay said:
Glad to here that the horse is now safe. I hope the owners takes this further, and also update is sometime on how the horse is.
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Having just spoken to the owner, they do intend to do just that Amymay, but obviously the horse is the first priority.

This really isn't the fault of anyone except the perpetrators, and it is unfair to suggest that it is - how many times on here do we read that once you've sold a horse then that's that - and how many times do we read about people being duped as buyers? If it can happen as a buyer then why not as a seller?
 
Errrr how is this funny?
:mad::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::mad::mad:

That poor horse looks petrified! Like a rodeo bull! They are a big horse dealer if im correct??! Jeez i do wonder sometimes...
 
magic104 said:
PS
I think this will go further as the horse was on his way to the vets to be photographed. Yes he has weal marks * the video is further evidence so I expect some form of comeuppence.
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And Kerilli, please keep us updated on the horses recovery and the impending court case (fingers crossed) for IH.
 
Don't ya just love the power of the internet - first posted at lunchtime and two facebook pages and a website are gone already. Hopefully she will not do anymore business although I fear she will pop up somewhere else at some point - even my non horsey OH was astonished at the guys riding - poor thing, I do hope he is ok and moves on to better things. Blooming heck I would take him myself if I was closer - he looks lovely.
 
I've read this thread all day, but not had anything constructive to add, but just like to sy I'm impressed as ever with the speed with which this Internet world interacts and affects people in real life. There really is no escape ;)

Didn't comment earlier as tbh, I didn't find the footage *that* shocking, you see horses get similar treatment at affiliated competitions week in, week out. That doesn't make it right obviously, it's just not a shock to me, glad the horse is on the road to better things, looks like a nice sort:)
 
Magic104, I understand that sometimes circumstances change and I'm sure the owner did the best they could at the time. The only people I blame for the horse being abused in the way it was are the 'dealers' in question.
I was very careful about how a worded my post because I don't want to further upset people who are experiencing a difficult situation. Clearly the owner was not kept informed about where the horse was going to end up and has found themselves in awful place due to someone they trusted actions. Where to draw the line at responsibility is an interesting question. I wasn't necessarily speaking specifically about this individual case which I obviously don't know the details of, but about the issues it highlights. It's not particularly helpful for anyone to get into shoulda coulda woulda territory The point I was trying to make is a general one that I wish we all, as horsey people, demonstrated a bit more restraint about how horses are bred/brought/imported and then there would be less opportunity for horses to end up suffering at the hands of unscrupulous, ill educated or wilfully ignorant and cruel individuals like those in the video. I hope you understand what I'm trying to put across.
I'm really glad the outcome has been positive for this horse and he is safe and sound. Fingers crossed that the people involved get what is coming to them.
 
I am so so glad to hear poor Tic Tock is back with his previous owner. I hope there is justice for him. He looks the sort to forgive and forget, poor lad. I hope he is ok with fair handling.

Incidentally I emailed WHW last night with all the info and they did not even reply :(
 
Right I am now ready to break cover so as to speak.
I was the owner of this unfortunate young man and I am pleased to inform you he is now mine again and at home eating his tea! luckily he is totally unaware of his notoriety otherwise his ego would be even more inflated!!!!
Just to put a few things straight,The decision to sell him was a purely unselfish one in that I wished to give the horse an opportunity to reach his potential as I did not feel at this time I could finance what was involved as I have other horses as well.What he was sold for did not cover 10% of my financial input into him but sometimes you have to take the knock and think whats best for the horse in these bad times in the horse market.The lady who sold him on my behalf did so in good faith having been recommended these people by the original breeder.We have all been very cautious with vetting potential buyers for the horse and there was nothing outwardly that would lead you to believe this situation would arise they had a website and seemed to be selling some reasonable horses ,there is only so much you can do .I feel also that the people who have been looking after him up until now have not been represented fairly in that He was being sold for the reason stated and not because I had any problem with the way he was looked after in fact he was always kept to a high standard and I would never say any different.
I do not wish to say to much about what led to me having him back .I will say that when I was alerted by somebody who knows the horse at about 11am there was never any doubt he would be back with me by nightfall and this I am pleased to say has occurred and that not happening was never an option! I am not ashamed to say when I checked out the video was actually him I cried( and thats coming from a hardened farmer) He was not in this world for that Abuse!! Thats all I can say at this stage as other agencies are involved and I do not wish to compromise any action.I can assure that these other agencies have acted very quickly and I was very surprised to actually bump into them when picking him up.
I do actually know the notoriety of the individual behind this business,and would never knowingly have sold the horse to them under any circumstances and neither would the person acting on my behalf who holds the welfare of any horse in her care to be paramount.
I can assure everybody that I will never put another one of my horses in such a compromised position and feel totally shocked and saddened by what he had to endure.
Please anybody who says maybe the horse needed it please look at the vids in the original post here and then try and justify your comments.http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=574405
how many of you would have taken a 4yo which you had been told had not been ridden for 6weeks straight off the lorry clip his head fully out and neck(this should tell you something about his temperament) and then chuck a saddle on and give him that sort of abuse.
That is all I wish to say at this stage and I hope you understand I feel a bit numb about all this .if anybody feels they need to know more please PM me and I will answer as best I can rather than the speculation that can very soon hide the truth!!!
 
ajn1610 said:
Magic104, I understand that sometimes circumstances change and I'm sure the owner did the best they could at the time. The only people I blame for the horse being abused in the way it was are the 'dealers' in question.
I was very careful about how a worded my post because I don't want to further upset people who are experiencing a difficult situation. Clearly the owner was not kept informed about where the horse was going to end up and has found themselves in awful place due to someone they trusted actions. Where to draw the line at responsibility is an interesting question. I wasn't necessarily speaking specifically about this individual case which I obviously don't know the details of, but about the issues it highlights. It's not particularly helpful for anyone to get into shoulda coulda woulda territory The point I was trying to make is a general one that I wish we all, as horsey people, demonstrated a bit more restraint about how horses are bred/brought/imported and then there would be less opportunity for horses to end up suffering at the hands of unscrupulous, ill educated or wilfully ignorant and cruel individuals like those in the video. I hope you understand what I'm trying to put across.
I'm really glad the outcome has been positive for this horse and he is safe and sound. Fingers crossed that the people involved get what is coming to them.
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The where you draw the line was general not in relation to this case. I see horses being sold for peanuts to end up who knows where. Like others I see aged horses, in their 20's being passed on, horses with issues etc. A month ago I had to make up my mind what I was going to do with 2 mares. I had spent a previous month going over * over the possiblities. In the end I bit the bullet (excuse the pun) had them PTS. It was very difficult as one mare I have owned for 8yrs * we have come through a lot. But I had to do what was best for them, * that was not to pass them on. My mare gave me a lovely foal who is doing well in dressage to Nov level. But she had no recorded breeding * had occult sarcoids (which she developed while trying to get in foal * were not diagnoised till much later). Being out of work she slowly reverted to the old bag I bought 8yrs ago. She was not staying sound long enough to bring back into work so the circle began. The other one had damage from a foot abcess that was taking months to heal in the meantime it was affecting the tendon in the other leg * on top of that she developed ring worm! She was not a suitable candidate for a broodmare being what they call a dirty mare. She was not too badly bred but had not stayed sound in racing. As I said took a month * all I can say is neither suffered. I wish circumstances had been different. The 2nd mare I might add came to me with a bruised foot that did not respond as well as you would have expected. I drew my line, but for mine it meant the end!
 
popsdosh said:
Right I am now ready to break cover so as to speak.
I was the owner of this unfortunate young man and I am pleased to inform you he is now mine again and at home eating his tea! luckily he is totally unaware of his notoriety otherwise his ego would be even more inflated!!!!
Just to put a few things straight,The decision to sell him was a purely unselfish one in that I wished to give the horse an opportunity to reach his potential as I did not feel at this time I could finance what was involved as I have other horses as well.What he was sold for did not cover 10% of my financial input into him but sometimes you have to take the knock and think whats best for the horse in these bad times in the horse market.The lady who sold him on my behalf did so in good faith having been recommended these people by the original breeder.We have all been very cautious with vetting potential buyers for the horse and there was nothing outwardly that would lead you to believe this situation would arise they had a website and seemed to be selling some reasonable horses ,there is only so much you can do .I feel also that the people who have been looking after him up until now have not been represented fairly in that He was being sold for the reason stated and not because I had any problem with the way he was looked after in fact he was always kept to a high standard and I would never say any different.
I do not wish to say to much about what led to me having him back .I will say that when I was alerted by somebody who knows the horse at about 11am there was never any doubt he would be back with me by nightfall and this I am pleased to say has occurred and that not happening was never an option! I am not ashamed to say when I checked out the video was actually him I cried( and thats coming from a hardened farmer) He was not in this world for that Abuse!! Thats all I can say at this stage as other agencies are involved and I do not wish to compromise any action.I can assure that these other agencies have acted very quickly and I was very surprised to actually bump into them when picking him up.
I do actually know the notoriety of the individual behind this business,and would never knowingly have sold the horse to them under any circumstances and neither would the person acting on my behalf who holds the welfare of any horse in her care to be paramount.
I can assure everybody that I will never put another one of my horses in such a compromised position and feel totally shocked and saddened by what he had to endure.
Please anybody who says maybe the horse needed it please look at the vids in the original post here and then try and justify your comments.http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=574405
how many of you would have taken a 4yo which you had been told had not been ridden for 6weeks straight off the lorry clip his head fully out and neck(this should tell you something about his temperament) and then chuck a saddle on and give him that sort of abuse.
That is all I wish to say at this stage and I hope you understand I feel a bit numb about all this .if anybody feels they need to know more please PM me and I will answer as best I can rather than the speculation that can very soon hide the truth!!!
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I am so pleased you have your boy back.
I hope the scum in question get everything and more.........SHE certainly deserves it!
 
ajn1610 said:
Magic104, I understand that sometimes circumstances change and I'm sure the owner did the best they could at the time. The only people I blame for the horse being abused in the way it was are the 'dealers' in question.
I was very careful about how a worded my post because I don't want to further upset people who are experiencing a difficult situation. Clearly the owner was not kept informed about where the horse was going to end up and has found themselves in awful place due to someone they trusted actions. Where to draw the line at responsibility is an interesting question. I wasn't necessarily speaking specifically about this individual case which I obviously don't know the details of, but about the issues it highlights. It's not particularly helpful for anyone to get into shoulda coulda woulda territory The point I was trying to make is a general one that I wish we all, as horsey people, demonstrated a bit more restraint about how horses are bred/brought/imported and then there would be less opportunity for horses to end up suffering at the hands of unscrupulous, ill educated or wilfully ignorant and cruel individuals like those in the video. I hope you understand what I'm trying to put across.
I'm really glad the outcome has been positive for this horse and he is safe and sound. Fingers crossed that the people involved get what is coming to them.
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Please feel assured that I place no responsibility for this with the person acting on my behalf.The horse in question is a 3/4 brother to an intermediate horse that is highly thought of so I dont think that indiscriminate breeding is a factor merely an example of the collapse of the horse market in general ,just remember he was conceived well before this drop in values and he ended up being sold for a fraction of the investment I had made. It can happen to the best at times!
 
Popsdosh I am so happy he is back with you , not everyone can keep every horse they have through their hands for ever that's an unrealistic view of the world and most horses sold go on to good homes and have good lives .
Dealers do a job that's needs doing matching horses to owners and giving buyers an other route to finding horses on top of word of mouth and using horse and hound and the other websites it would be unfair to tar all dealer by judging them by worse practise.
I can understand you feel stunned but you have stepped in and done the right thing here good luck with the horse in the future.
 
popsdosh said:
Right I am now ready to break cover so as to speak.
I was the owner of this unfortunate young man and I am pleased to inform you he is now mine again and at home eating his tea! luckily he is totally unaware of his notoriety otherwise his ego would be even more inflated!!!!
Just to put a few things straight,The decision to sell him was a purely unselfish one in that I wished to give the horse an opportunity to reach his potential as I did not feel at this time I could finance what was involved as I have other horses as well.What he was sold for did not cover 10% of my financial input into him but sometimes you have to take the knock and think whats best for the horse in these bad times in the horse market.The lady who sold him on my behalf did so in good faith having been recommended these people by the original breeder.We have all been very cautious with vetting potential buyers for the horse and there was nothing outwardly that would lead you to believe this situation would arise they had a website and seemed to be selling some reasonable horses ,there is only so much you can do .I feel also that the people who have been looking after him up until now have not been represented fairly in that He was being sold for the reason stated and not because I had any problem with the way he was looked after in fact he was always kept to a high standard and I would never say any different.
I do not wish to say to much about what led to me having him back .I will say that when I was alerted by somebody who knows the horse at about 11am there was never any doubt he would be back with me by nightfall and this I am pleased to say has occurred and that not happening was never an option! I am not ashamed to say when I checked out the video was actually him I cried( and thats coming from a hardened farmer) He was not in this world for that Abuse!! Thats all I can say at this stage as other agencies are involved and I do not wish to compromise any action.I can assure that these other agencies have acted very quickly and I was very surprised to actually bump into them when picking him up.
I do actually know the notoriety of the individual behind this business,and would never knowingly have sold the horse to them under any circumstances and neither would the person acting on my behalf who holds the welfare of any horse in her care to be paramount.
I can assure everybody that I will never put another one of my horses in such a compromised position and feel totally shocked and saddened by what he had to endure.
Please anybody who says maybe the horse needed it please look at the vids in the original post here and then try and justify your comments.http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=574405
how many of you would have taken a 4yo which you had been told had not been ridden for 6weeks straight off the lorry clip his head fully out and neck(this should tell you something about his temperament) and then chuck a saddle on and give him that sort of abuse.
That is all I wish to say at this stage and I hope you understand I feel a bit numb about all this .if anybody feels they need to know more please PM me and I will answer as best I can rather than the speculation that can very soon hide the truth!!!
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SOOOO glad he is back with you and happy.

I hope that the proper authorities take note of all this and this poor youn g man goes perhaps to someone within this community. If I had the cash I would have taken him.

Hopefully he suffers no after effects of this treatment. Well done you in getting him back where he belongs x
 
Thank goodness he has been returned to you - hopefully they haven't caused too much damage. Do not feel you have to justify yourself here popsdosh, at the end of the day we can only do our best but sadly it is often others who let us down.

If you do however need a home for him and are going past Glasgow just drop him off with me :D
 
So glad he's safe with you now and looks a lovely sort, says a lot about his character to endure that abuse for as long as he did.

Were there more horses there? What about those poor wee mites :mad:
 
Disgusting behaviour, how dare they. Hope he has found a good home (sorry, not a follower, yet, will check back on messages now..)

And IH ltd has seemed to have jumped off from the planet...
 
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