How to tell if she has ulcers without scoping?

[Darcey22]

My horse has recently started bucking a little in canter and being a bit “girthy”. I am concerned it may be ulcers. However I have spoken to the insurance company who have said that they will only cover the costs if it is above grade 2 stage. They also dont cover hospitalisation. As she has only just started being "girthy" and bucking a bit in canter, it’s just suspicion at this stage. And to be honest, I would rather not fork out so much money £350-£400 unless I am sure it is ulcers and can claim at least some of it back.. Is there anyway to confirm without scoping? If not, should I wait a while for a scoping clinic to come about or get worse and potentially develop a habit?

 

[[153312]]

You can trial medication and see if there is an improvement but it doesn't 'confirm' it the way a scope does. The pain response to girthing etc can become learned though so personally I wouldn't wait to scope, also let's face it if your horse is in pain every responsible owner wants that pain resolved as quickly as possible.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

You can still have hind-gut ulcers which won't be detected at a scoping.

 

[Darcey22]

You can trial medication and see if there is an improvement but it doesn't 'confirm' it the way a scope does. The pain response to girthing etc can become learned though so personally I wouldn't wait to scope, also let's face it if your horse is in pain every responsible owner wants that pain resolved as quickly as possible.

Is it just the gastrogard that needs to be tried. Thing is, I am not convinced she is in pain as she doesn’t do it every time. She loves jumping and canters into jumps without bucking and if she is eating hay she doesn’t pull faces when you tighten her girth. She also isn’t bothered if you tighten it in her?

 

[Darcey22]

You can still have hind-gut ulcers which won't be detected at a scoping.

Would the trail medication help with that?

 

[[153312]]

The same condition can present very differently in different animals; they all have different pain thresholds/tolerances, just as we do.

Personally I'd be getting her scoped ASAP.

 

[MereChristmas]

My pony became dangerous to ride. He threw himself about for no apparent reason, tried to rear and had huge muscle fasciculations.
He had Grade 2 ulcers.
Your insurance wouldn’t cover that anyway it seems.
I think I would be investigating further.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I would give her Aloe Vera juice mixed into an ulcer friendly diet.
My Draft mare was showing signs of being 'girthy' and I gave her avj, she soon settled but if we ran out her symptoms started up again after 36 hrs (1 missed dose).

 

[Dexter]

I would give her Aloe Vera juice mixed into an ulcer friendly diet.
My Draft mare was showing signs of being 'girthy' and I gave her avj, she soon settled but if we ran out her symptoms started up again after 36 hrs (1 missed dose).

That just sounds like it was masking the symptoms and the ulcers themselves never actually resolved. Which is why you should always scope instead of messing about with various supplements.

 

[olop]

The scoping is relatively inexpensive compared to the cost of the medication, I only paid £140 for mine back in January last year, it’s the medication that is expensive, gastroguard can be anything from £20 - £40 a syringe and they’ll need it once a day depending on how big the horse is.

 

[Zoeypxo]

I would just get the horse scoped and rule it out.
Does your tack fit? Ill fitting saddle could also cause these issues.
Agree with above scoping is the cheap part, gastroguard is astronomically expensive !! Especially if horse needs multiple treatments

 

[Sossigpoker]

You can't
Only way to tell is to scope.
Some vets do scoping days where you take your horse to them and get a much reduced price for scoping.

 

[J_sarahd]

Is it just the gastrogard that needs to be tried. Thing is, I am not convinced she is in pain as she doesn’t do it every time. She loves jumping and canters into jumps without bucking and if she is eating hay she doesn’t pull faces when you tighten her girth. She also isn’t bothered if you tighten it in her?

My girl was the same as this (except the jumping as we’ve not started that yet). If she was eating hay, she was fine to tack up and she was always fine to rug. But she was scoped in December and had grade 2 squamous ulcers so I’d definitely recommend scoping

 

[AandK]

The cost to scope is likely to be less than the excess to claim. I’d scope to be sure, could be ulcers could be something else.

 

[Barton Bounty]

I would give her Aloe Vera juice mixed into an ulcer friendly diet.
My Draft mare was showing signs of being 'girthy' and I gave her avj, she soon settled but if we ran out her symptoms started up again after 36 hrs (1 missed dose).

I agree with this ?
I too would try a supplement before scoping as you say it isnt a consistent behaviour. Lets face it , its worth a try for 3:4 weeks ? If there is no improvements then scope ?

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would try absolutely everything before scoping one of my horses is really sensitive to tubes going up through his nose, his got some nerve damage and I would definitely avoid anything that involved this procedure.

I think people underestimate how invasive it is and are so quick to just do it.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would get teeth back and saddle checked try feeding aloe vera juice and feed a small feed before riding as well as hay, Ron fields ulcer supplement is really good and just manage the horse like it has ulcers.

 

[Barton Bounty]

I think BB would struggle with the starvation part ?? he would be devastated lol

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

That just sounds like it was masking the symptoms and the ulcers themselves never actually resolved. Which is why you should always scope instead of messing about with various supplements.

Not necessarily especially when your horse can have terrible side effects from the procedure it's not always a straight forward thing to do.

 

[Birker2020]

My horse has recently started bucking a little in canter and being a bit “girthy”. I am concerned it may be ulcers. However I have spoken to the insurance company who have said that they will only cover the costs if it is above grade 2 stage. They also dont cover hospitalisation. As she has only just started being "girthy" and bucking a bit in canter, it’s just suspicion at this stage. And to be honest, I would rather not fork out so much money £350-£400 unless I am sure it is ulcers and can claim at least some of it back.. Is there anyway to confirm without scoping? If not, should I wait a while for a scoping clinic to come about or get worse and potentially develop a habit?

My horse had the same symptoms as yours, it turned out that he had kissing spine and not ulcers, scoping showed no ulcers. I was convinced he had ulcers. Watched the video below the day before he was due to go in for scoping and thought 'I'm wasting my money here' as he didn't react at all to any of the palpation that I did.

This is the video I'm talking about - it shows you how to palpate your horses body to see if it reacts in the way a horse would if it had ulcers. Even more interesting the dramatic reaction to the horse with moderate and the horse with severe ulceration over these areas when palpated. Fascinating watch.

 

[Darcey22]

I would get teeth back and saddle checked try feeding aloe vera juice and feed a small feed before riding as well as hay, Ron fields ulcer supplement is really good and just manage the horse like it has ulcers.

Which Ron Fields Supplement do you recommend? X

 

[Birker2020]

I think BB would struggle with the starvation part ?? he would be devastated lol

What was the name of that stuff that you recommended for me, maybe the OP would like to try that with her horse.

I didn't notice any difference with it with mine, but that's because he didn't have ulcers lol. But if Darcey22's horse does then maybe it would help her determine whether a scoping is financially viable. It was relatively inexpensive Darcey 22 and the dosage isn't huge.

 

[Barton Bounty]

What was the name of that stuff that you recommended for me, maybe the OP would like to try that with her horse.

I didn't notice any difference with it with mine, but that's because he didn't have ulcers lol. But if Darcey22's horse does then maybe it would help her determine whether a scoping is financially viable. It was relatively inexpensive Darcey 22 and the dosage isn't huge.

Bentonite clay and yeah it has to be used consistently ?

 

[ycbm]

I would give her aloe and see if it stopped the symptoms.

If not, then I would try her with esomeprazole (Nexium) which has been proven to be effective in horses in much smaller doses than omeprazole but nobody wants to pay the licensing cost so vets can't prescribe it.
.

 

[ycbm]

Bentonite clay and yeah it has to be used consistently ?

Also known as fuller's earth, available by the kilo on eBay.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Also known as fuller's earth, available by the kilo on eBay.

Fullers earth if I remember correctly dont do food grade! I have ended up with kilos because I bought the wrong stuff ?

I tried out aloe vera on your recommendation and he has been doing brilliantly

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Which Ron Fields Supplement do you recommend? X

It's the ulc30x but they do have a pre ulcer one as well, I would message him or give him a call and tell him what the issues are and he will advise you.

 

[Squeak]

When I first suspected my horse had ulcers I put him on the Ron fields supplements (Pre ULC followed by Ulc30x) and they made a huge, huge difference to him. I now maintain him on yeasacc but I don't think that would have done enough initially, oddly the Ron Fields didn't help much when I put him on it again for a slight flare up and aloe vera has never worked for him.

If you are going to give the Ron Fields supplements a go it is well worth ringing him first.

 

[Barton Bounty]

When I first suspected my horse had ulcers I put him on the Ron fields supplements (Pre ULC followed by Ulc30x) and they made a huge, huge difference to him. I now maintain him on yeasacc but I don't think that would have done enough initially, oddly the Ron Fields didn't help much when I put him on it again for a slight flare up and aloe vera has never worked for him.

If you are going to give the Ron Fields supplements a go it is well worth ringing him first.

Its funny how things work, ron fields didnt work for my boy but it worked for my friends boy , its so bizarre ?

 

[Squeak]

Its funny how things work, ron fields didnt work for my boy but it worked for my friends boy , its so bizarre ?

It is really odd. I do find that sometimes some things work on them and others not, I wonder if it's related to the different triggers or something - possibly their gut bacteria/ acidity differs and so the cures differ.

Adding on to my previous post as well - If it's mild symptoms then I think supplements etc are worth a go but if you start to have bigger/ serious symptoms then if you haven't managed to get dramatic improvements within 10 days I would go straight to the vets.