HOYS announcement regarding judging

[Kaylum]

Taken from their facebook page:

IMPORTANT INFORMATION REGARDING NORTH OF ENGLAND SHOW

It has been brought to the attention of the HOYS office that there have been concerns surrounding some of the judging at the North of England Show on the weekend of 25/26th of June.
As a result of these concerns, HOYS will be undertaking a thorough investigation and discussing with BSPS, NPS and other societies as appropriate.
Going forward, Horse of the Year Show believes that the most effective prevention of these occurrences is the improved education of both judges and competitors, which will be discussed with the relevant societies. In addition, HOYS will look to implement video recording of selected classes at a variety of shows to ensure appropriate monitoring.
Thank you for your understanding, and please rest assured that the integrity of the sport is our primary concern.
The HOYS Team

 

[twobearsarthur]

I’ve just seen this and the comments that have been posted!!! Whatever’s gone on, for them to think filming classes will be helpful. I can’t help think it must be pretty serious and another nail on the coffin for showing.

 

[Kaylum]

I’ve just seen this and the comments that have been posted!!! Whatever’s gone on, for them to think filming classes will be helpful. I can’t help think it must be pretty serious and another nail on the coffin for showing.

I complaints by the looks of things. Probably the same people winning but not performing as good as others.

 

[Bobthecob15]

ooh what happened?!

 

[twobearsarthur]

Such a shame. I’ve shown on and off for 40 years. I know it isn’t perfect but the last few years it’s become an absolute farce. I can mark 1st, 2nd 3rd in the catalogue before I even get to a ring.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Hate to say it but it's been going on for years. ( I'm sure we all know this anyway!). I worked for a top breeding yard, owner was also a judge. It didn't matter what we took it would always qualify. It seemed that the same group of producers/ judges would do the rounds making sure each other got qualified. This was 30 years ago!!

 

[Nasicus]

Not surprised. I recall a few years ago that a HOYS judge awarded 1st to a stallion that she just so happened to have a mare in foal to. Conflict of interest? Surely not, not as if the price of that foal just went up...

 

[countryal]

I also think it is very strange that a judge can judge a class they are going to be competing in at HOYS? I understand that these are often experts in the breed / type, but surely it should be independent judges with no invested interest in the outcome of the results?

 

[Bobthecob15]

I also think it is very strange that a judge can judge a class they are going to be competing in at HOYS? I understand that these are often experts in the breed / type, but surely it should be independent judges with no invested interest in the outcome of the results?

Oh my goodness I never knew that?! The showing world is alien to me...sounds bizarre!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Goodness, what on earth happened that was so blatant as to kick up all this fuss?

Showing judging standards and integrity have long been a complete joke, so whatever happened at the North of England show must have been even more obviously bent than normal to have forced HoYs to make that statement ?.

 

[Snowfilly]

I’m desperate to know what was so blatant that they’ve actually had to do something!

It’s depressingly common in showing.

 

[twobearsarthur]

I’m desperate to know what was so blatant that they’ve actually had to do something!

It’s depressingly common in showing.

This is exactly what I said. Something really bad must have happened for them to be “threatening” to film classes going forward.

This can’t be just faciness or dodgy scoring because that’s a given.

 

[AmyMay]

I’m desperate to know what was so blatant that they’ve actually had to do something!

It’s depressingly common in showing.

Me too.

 

[jnb]

Put it this way- at the HOYS HW Cob today at Norfolk there were only 4 entries, one person there I know is a non produced amateur, presumably the pros "knew" who was going to qualify so decided with the price of fuel to save their clients £££ and stay at home. I haven't heard of more than 10 in any HOYS cob classes so far bar the Maxis which ironically have fewer tickets.

The man (or woman) on the street are not bothering to go to their local show nowadays as its so blatant they don't stand a chance. Why pay £50/60 a HOYS qualifier plus £££ on fuel and the day out when you won't even get watched on the go around.

I took my father in law once along for the ride to a class - 3 LW cobs in it, me and 2 producers. My cob went really well and sparkled, cracking gallop - we came 3rd.
Partners non horsey dad remarked "why did the judge keep turning her back on you, xxxx (my cob) looked really good"

Looked back at the photos my partner had taken and blatantly the judge didn't look at us once! I mean, OK if you hate us but at least LOOK as though we have the same chance as everyone else!

 

[AmyMay]

That still doesn’t explain what the statement is about @jnb

 

[Nasicus]

That still doesn’t explain what the statement is about @jnb

The facebook post has comments about doping, perhaps a horse that was quite obviously under the influence was placed high/qualified? I can imagine that being something that could be spotted on a video.

 

[jnb]

That still doesn’t explain what the statement is about @jnb

Unfortunately I don't know - apologies for not answering the question, I wasn't aware the only discussion permitted was to answer what the issue was at NoE

 

[Tiddlypom]

I've just browsed through the comments on the HOYs FB page. Goodness, what a damning indictment of showing, with barely a hint of support for the sport as it is now. This is just one comment, there are many, many more in a similar vein from people within showing.

'Thank you. Please take this seriously across all shows. As a show team for over 20 years, we are seriously considering changing discipline at the end of this season if no changes are made. Please please look at doping as it’s rife at the moment. Also conflicts of interest and paid results. It’s so obvious and it is Killing our sport. It simply must change. Where are these supervisor stewards that were promised ??'

 

[ester]

The comments on the Fb post seem very optimistic that hoys are now going to sort out every problem in showing
Producers winning
Horses being placed if they buck
Scoring systems
Scores being changed
Doping
Fat horses
Horses travelling to multiple qualifiers in a week
Etc
Can’t see anything on rider size yet but am sure it will.

going to be busy aren’t they ?

 

[Rowreach]

Unfortunately I don't know - apologies for not answering the question, I wasn't aware the only discussion permitted was to answer what the issue was at NoE

Don't worry, I was interested in your post!

The very last time I bothered showing, my extremely nice hunter was beaten by a poorly put together horse that was so obviously lame it should never have been allowed in the ring. Ridden by the owner, who just so happened to stable with the best mate of the judge, a top show producer.

I never minded being beaten by better horses or horses that show better than mine - I'm quite fond of picking my own line up even in classes I'm competing in - but when every time you are seeing the faces winning and placing, and you get beaten by lame horses or, in the case of the show organiser's daughter, a horse with the wonkiest crookedest legs I've ever seen, you do wonder why you bother with producing, preparing, travelling, competing and spending all that money on it to boot.

So as others have said, 'twas ever thus, and it must have been quite bad if they're actually looking into it this time.

 

[spacefaer]

I've dabbled in showing over the years - a bonus of living nearly next door to a certain Robert Oliver and I am extremely lucky to have ridden some of his best horses back in the day.
One of the most blatant bits of favouritism I've ever seen was actually at an unaff show in Scotland where I competed in a working hunter class, on a horse that had shown at a proper level in his youth. I was beaten by a Highland pony who was a livery at the show centre.

 

[babymare]

been going on for years. some years ago my daughter in first ridden class. An ok individual show from daughter and many same. Daughter was second to a child who could not steer pony, stop it eating grass and judge held pony to trot. Myself and a few other parents respectfully ask judge on placing. Answer was “ how cute were they though”. Walked away hands in air and never went back to venue. Im proud to say daughter and other children were superstars over it and were laughing ?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Another FB comment.

'Stood at a show recently filling water. Older child said to mother I’m really excited about the hoys class, but what if I don’t get the ticket…..oh don’t worry said the mother it’s already sorted! Jaw on ground!'

 

[HBB]

Unfortunately I don't know - apologies for not answering the question, I wasn't aware the only discussion permitted was to answer what the issue was at NoE

I was interested in your reply too, so please don't apologise as it is relevant.
I was at an affiliated show a few weekends ago and was horrified at a panel judge awarding first place to a fellow panel judges pony. The pony in question was overweight, unbalanced and bucked in its individual as it was nappy and reluctant to go forward. Not a nice overall picture and very unfair on the other riders in the class.

 

[Nudibranch]

I've seen the same two overweight large breed natives win the same county show classes for years on end. One year one of them was clearly lame behind. The producer has now moved onto Dales so I guess it'll be same old same old again.

 

[thefarsideofthefield]

It works both ways though ? ! I once won a class at county level because the elderly judge thought I was someone else .
I had a young native pony in his first open class , we got pulled in 1st after the go around and then the judge stood and chatted to me for the whole class , barely paying attention to anyone else . And it was a very weird conversation which left me greatly confused ! When she finally tottered off toward the steward the rider next to me leant over and whispered " She thinks you're xxxxxxx " and pointed at a well known producer who was way down the line with a face like thunder .
I said " What should I do ? "
She said " Keep quiet ! ". She thought it was hilarious . And sure enough as the judge handed me I got my red rosette she said " Well done xxxxxxx . "

Nb - just thought I would add that my pony was actually very nice and did go on to have a succesful showing career on his own merits !

 

[scats]

I honestly don’t know why anyone bothers with showing anymore.

 

[Michen]

Me neither, it repulses me tbh.

 

[southerncomfort]

I liked the suggestion in the comments that all horses/ponies should receive a condition score from an independent professional before they enter the ring, and that the score should be taken in to account by the judge when coming to a decision. Some judges need re educating about 'show condition'.

Very curious about what happened at this particular to cause such upset though.

 

[SilverLinings]

I don't get why someone would want to keep competing if they knew that they were always going to win/qualify/be highly placed on whatever horse they took into the ring? The feeling of winning in a sport is amazing when you know you've put in hard work and dedication and were the best on the day, if the win is guaranteed then it means nothing. I suppose it supports their job, in that it keeps clients using them/their yard, but it's such a dishonest and depressing way to earn a living.