Hunt coming through yard

[rabatsa]

Sorry LG I got led astray.

 

[palo1]

Yes, I should have known better than to try to provide some balance (as I saw it) around the impact of a hunt, potentially on an inexperienced horse. I am sorry I weighed in there too I think @LadyGascoyne your plan for Mim is a good one and hopefully all will be fine and without too much trouble or stress for you.

 

[Tiddlypom]

At least LG is now suitably forewarned as to what *might* happen on a hunting day if the pack coming to hers is a less well behaved one, from those of us who have had to endure them. Much better to be alerted to the possibilities of what can happen than to receive false assurances that all will doubtless be fine. That is balance .

TFF, I wasn't counting you, you do contribute to threads on hunting now and again .

 

[Equine_Dream]

Not necessarily, there are some who gave up replying a long time ago (long before this thread) mostly due to a vociferous group of 5 or 6 same persons who constantly rail against anything that's said in any form of difference of opinion or support.

I wholeheartedly agree that there are some hunts that maybe do cause issues of many sorts but equally there are many more who don't.

LG, it's a huge shame your thread has derailed, hope the autumn hunting isn't an issue for you.

In life there are to55ers in everything you do, they spoil it for the majority.

Toodle pip ?

Well said. I hunt and have hunted regularly with a legal trail pack. There are many statements that have been made on this thread that are to be blunt complete and utter ??.
However I've neither the time nor the inclination to continue going around in circles with the same people who are clearly very set on their own POV.

 

[cauda equina]

Nothing said on here struck me as being untrue, I wonder where you're seeing the BS?

 

[ester]

I'm curious which ones they are too as it seems to me everyone just telling their experiences. Not in anyone's interest to make stuff up?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Well said. I hunt and have hunted regularly with a legal trail pack. There are many statements that have been made on this thread that are to be blunt complete and utter ??.

However I've neither the time nor the inclination to continue going around in circles with the same people who are clearly very set on their own POV.

Point these false statements out, then, or they don't exist .

 

[GoldenWillow]

Well I hear these things too. I hear them of our own and neighbouring hunts when the facts often completely disprove those stories. In two recent incidents (within the last year or so) I have been told that 'the hunt went on xxx's ground when they know they were not welcome'' - when the truth is that the hunt were nowhere near that area on that day! Once that record is set straight people tend to feel a bit peeved that they have been fed a myth!! Our neighbours have had sabs deliberately push and call hounds onto ground where the hunt has no permission to be in order to cause trouble. That can sometimes result in stories of hunts being in the wrong place too.

People listen to, hear and repeat stuff often without thinking though I have also heard local people challenge this kind of stuff. Stories are not necessarily facts but the anti-hunt brigade use stories, rumours and supposition to spread ill-feeling. They are very, very good at that and have a very loud if often misinformed or vexatious voice. Having said that some hunt individuals do seem to be bent on poor PR and self sabotage - I have no idea why to be honest!! It's not what I experience nor what I am used to historically.

I've not commented before as didn't want to help derail thread but have to answer this. I've commented before on hunting posts about the dreadful behaviour of our hunt and witnessed it first hand. I've been verbally abused, had hunt traffic pass dangerously close and fast whilst I was riding on the road with now where to get off it and have witnessed the hunt go through my field twice when they shouldn't have been anywhere on the 30 acres surrounding it. There have also been other things I've witnessed and many, many instances of things that I've been told by my immediate neighbours which has led to the hunt, which had had permission to hunt around here since at least 1970's that I know of, not having permission to go on any land around here. Our hunt is both foot and mounted depending on where they are hunting and it is foot around us.

I'm of the generation that grew up with PC and hunted happily until life got I the way in your 20's and had no strong feelings about hunting either way. I now do have strong feelings!

 

[Sossigpoker]

The local thugs- sorry hunt- are constantly trespassing and therefore losing hunting ground because land owners get fed up with them going where they're not supposed to , leaving gates open. And let's not mention them not being bothered letting locals know when they're coming so horses get injured when they go mental in the paddock when the hunt turns up unannounced !
And they don't even pretend to follow a trail. What trail hunt needs terrier men? What trail hunt has the field stationed around a maize field?
They don't even try and hide it.

Absolutely revolting bunch of people that more and more people are turning against- and quite rightly so!

 

[Fred66]

Yes, it is. There was plenty of good advice being given about what she needs to watch out for, given by people with actual experience. And then hunting people tried to defend hunting on the basis that it doesn't happen very often (fair enough, but it still needs to be guarded against by LG) or that it happens in other sports and passtimes too (irrelevant). (Or that hunting should be a protected activity like it is in Amazon indigenous tribes!) And away it went, just like normal on any hunting thread since the ban.

If hunting people would stop trying to defend the indefensible and just condemn hunts that behave like it, these threads would die very quickly.
.

Quite disappointed in you in this post. I normally find you to be fair and balanced even in areas we disagree.
Read this thread through from the beginning and tell me whether the defence of the hunts came before the insults (as you are stating) or whether the insults led to a defence being made?

 

[Tiddlypom]

What insults?

 

[planete]

I have not seen any insults.

 

[Sandstone1]

I have not seen any insults.

Apparently, its a insult if you dont agree with hunting. These are FACTS not insults. Hunting foxes with hounds is illegal. Hunts do cause disruption to people going about their legal business ie blocking roads, upsetting livestock, killing pets, damaging land and hunting illegally. These are not insults they are proven facts.

 

[Equine_Dream]

I'm not disputing people's experiences, however there appears to be an insinuation that ALL hunts behave in this manner. I quite agree with those that have tried to offer a balanced view, which is only natural when everyone seems to just want to condem us. I also find some of the assumptions made about people who hunt quite laughable, along with the general grumblings and whinges that personally are touching on pedantic ?
I find it interesting that no one has mentioned sabs trespassing or leaving gates open, blocking roads, crowding the pub etc. In my experience a bunch of loonies in balaclavas also has a tendency to wind horses up?
This is why I now try to avoid these threads as they always go the same way. The same individuals jump on their anti hunt soap boxes. Those who hunt legally try to offer some balance and are immediately shouted down.

 

[Sandstone1]

I'm not disputing people's experiences, however there appears to be an insinuation that ALL hunts behave in this manner. I quite agree with those that have tried to offer a balanced view, which is only natural when everyone seems to just want to condem us. I also find some of the assumptions made about people who hunt quite laughable, along with the general grumblings and whinges that personally are touching on pedantic ?
I find it interesting that no one has mentioned sabs trespassing or leaving gates open, blocking roads, crowding the pub etc. In my experience a bunch of loonies in balaclavas also has a tendency to wind horses up?
This is why I now try to avoid these threads as they always go the same way. The same individuals jump on their anti hunt soap boxes. Those who hunt legally try to offer some balance and are immediately shouted down.

And calling sabs loonies is not a insult!!!!!

 

[Equine_Dream]

And calling sabs loonies is not a insult!!!!!

Because that is exactly what they are..... in my experience of course

 

[little_critter]

I’m on the fence but this thread has been interesting reading.
Someone stating their experience of disruption by hunts is not stating that ALL hunts behave that way. They are stating their experience. And I feel it’s rude for others to say “that’s not the case”.
The views expressed are not mutually exclusive. Person A in location A can experience disruption and poor manners, while person B hunting in location B can act courteously and with good manners and minimum disruption.
I haven’t seen any insults on this thread. I’ve seen people stating experiences that do not echo the experiences others have had. That does not mean they didn’t happen.
It seems the conclusion is that some hunts are rude, some hunts are courteous.
Some people experience disruption, some don’t.

I guess the best course of action for LG would be to prepare for disruption until she susses out how her local hunt behave, then she can adjust accordingly. Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

 

[Clodagh]

The local thugs- sorry hunt- are constantly trespassing and therefore losing hunting ground because land owners get fed up with them going where they're not supposed to , leaving gates open. And let's not mention them not being bothered letting locals know when they're coming so horses get injured when they go mental in the paddock when the hunt turns up unannounced !
And they don't even pretend to follow a trail. What trail hunt needs terrier men? What trail hunt has the field stationed around a maize field?
They don't even try and hide it.

Absolutely revolting bunch of people that more and more people are turning against- and quite rightly so!

Trail hunts can legally use a terrier if hounds mark a Fox in an earth. The terrier can then be used to locate the Fox so it can be dug down to and shot.
That’s just FYI I hunted all my life and agree that some hunts behave appallingly. Most try their best not to. With increased urbanisation it is hard for the big packs not to cause hold ups and so on.

 

[ester]

While we went off topic it definitely wasn't a post about sabs though, if it had been they might have come up.

I have hunted, and would again if I could afford it/have a mount. I don't feel shouted down just don't understand why people try and ignore other peoples less than great experiences.

As I stated before the biggest insinuation that all hunts behave in a particular way came from palo who is very clearly pro hunt too.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I'm not disputing people's experiences, however there appears to be an insinuation that ALL hunts behave in this manner. I quite agree with those that have tried to offer a balanced view, which is only natural when everyone seems to just want to condem us. I also find some of the assumptions made about people who hunt quite laughable, along with the general grumblings and whinges that personally are touching on pedantic ?
I find it interesting that no one has mentioned sabs trespassing or leaving gates open, blocking roads, crowding the pub etc. In my experience a bunch of loonies in balaclavas also has a tendency to wind horses up?
This is why I now try to avoid these threads as they always go the same way. The same individuals jump on their anti hunt soap boxes. Those who hunt legally try to offer some balance and are immediately shouted down.

Nope. I think the insinuation is only there if you want it to be. If you take it that way, that's on you.

Those who hunt legally don't always "try to offer some balance" and they aren't always immediately shouted down. It's just that some who hunt can't see what's wrong with the sport or acknowledge that there could be something wrong. Not all hunts are created equal and I have mixed feelings on it. I am sort of in the middle.

But for the most part, it's often a case of "if the shoe fits..."

 

[littleshetland]

Trail hunts can legally use a terrier if hounds mark a Fox in an earth. The terrier can then be used to locate the Fox so it can be dug down to and shot.
That’s just FYI I hunted all my life and agree that some hunts behave appallingly.

The chances of hounds finding a fox (it would appear to me) are massively increased if hunts continue to use fox urine as a scent for hounds to follow.

 

[ycbm]

Quite disappointed in you in this post. I normally find you to be fair and balanced even in areas we disagree.
Read this thread through from the beginning and tell me whether the defence of the hunts came before the insults (as you are stating) or whether the insults led to a defence being made?

I did read the thread through before writing what I wrote. I was looking for the post that kicked it off but decided not to quote it. Until the thread degenerated, there was nothing in it but people relating actual experiences or proven facts.

Can you please state which posts contain insults you felt hunts were being defended from?
.

 

[ycbm]

I find it interesting that no one has mentioned sabs trespassing or leaving gates open, blocking roads, crowding the pub etc. In my experience a bunch of loonies in balaclavas also has a tendency to wind horses up?

I think that's not mentioned because most of us believe that if hunts weren't still hunting fox the sabs would not be causing trouble trying to stop them hunting fox.

Sab activity in Cheshire, for example, has reputedly calmed right down in this area and no longer disrupts residents, since the hunts finally accepted they should not be hunting fox. The hunts are now voluntarily monitored, not sabbed.
.

 

[Lou27]

Trail hunts can legally use a terrier if hounds mark a Fox in an earth. The terrier can then be used to locate the Fox so it can be dug down to and shot.
That’s just FYI I hunted all my life and agree that some hunts behave appallingly. Most try their best not to. With increased urbanisation it is hard for the big packs not to cause hold ups and so on.

There‘s plenty of evidence of hunts blocking setts/dens to enable continued thrill of the chase. Personally, I find the digging out of an animal gone to ground utterly barbaric.

 

[ycbm]

Car followers can end up blocking on very narrow lanes for short periods but in my experience then the shout goes up and people move to allow non followers through.

Fred, you wrote this. Can you see how arrogant this sounds to non hunters? What you have written is that you think it's perfectly OK for a group of car followers of your hunt to park illegally and block roads. Then if someone does want to get through, they have to be recalled to their cars and manoeuvre those cars out of the way.

This is where these threads break down. People call this unreasonable behaviour. Hunters then call writing that an insult.
.

 

[Miss_Millie]

I had a browse on some farming forums yesterday to see what the general attitudes of farmers is towards hunts, as they are arguably the most affected/impacted by hunts. There were many comments along the lines of 'banned from my land because of xxxx...' - the main complaints seemed to be horses + quad bikes ruining the ground when it was too wet, padlocks being broken off on gates and livestock let out onto the road, livestock killed by hounds, freshly sown crops trampled and ruined, access to their farms blocked by lots of cars/trailers, plus in some cases, verbal abuse when asked to get off of their property.

It was clear from the comments that these are farming types who don't have a problem with killing wild animals, it's the mass disruption and often times it seems, lack of consideration for everyone around them that gets these people fuming. Funnily enough, sabs were hardly mentioned, and when they were it was in the context of 'the antis wouldn't be on my land if they weren't there in the first place'

There was really no need for this thread to be derailed, but it only was because a few pro hunting people refuse to accept people's lived experiences - are dismissive of legitimate concerns, which honestly just reinforces the stereotype that they only think about themselves.

 

[Equine_Dream]

Nope. I think the insinuation is only there if you want it to be. If you take it that way, that's on you.

Those who hunt legally don't always "try to offer some balance" and they aren't always immediately shouted down. It's just that some who hunt can't see what's wrong with the sport or acknowledge that there could be something wrong. Not all hunts are created equal and I have mixed feelings on it. I am sort of in the middle.

But for the most part, it's often a case of "if the shoe fits..."

Thats you're opinion, which of course you are entitled to, as am I. I've not seen anyone who hunts dispute that some hunts are not behaving themselves. Only offer some balance to the views expressed on here, but as per usual my opinion on the matter must be "wrong" ...

 

[Equine_Dream]

While we went off topic it definitely wasn't a post about sabs though, if it had been they might have come up.

I have hunted, and would again if I could afford it/have a mount. I don't feel shouted down just don't understand why people try and ignore other peoples less than great experiences.

As I stated before the biggest insinuation that all hunts behave in a particular way came from palo who is very clearly pro hunt too.

It may not have been about sabs but if we are discussing the disruption caused by hunts then it is relevant to also mention sabs, who also ime cause a great deal of disruption and upset.

Also the idea that sabs would not be there if hunts were hunting within the law, as someone who hunts with a legal, open, and honest trail pack, I can assure you this is definitely not the case. Ime sabs do not care I'm afraid.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Thats you're opinion, which of course you are entitled to, as am I. I've not seen anyone who hunts dispute that some hunts are not behaving themselves. Only offer some balance to the views expressed on here, but as per usual my opinion on the matter must be "wrong" ...

Well, you recently posted this:-

I hunt and have hunted regularly with a legal trail pack. There are many statements that have been made on this thread that are to be blunt complete and utter ??.

And then neither you nor the people who liked your post have come back to detail just which statements that you think are false ?‍.

It is mostly just folk relaying their own experiences of what happens when their local hunt comes past. That will, naturally, vary according to the local situation.

I don't know which pack will be coming to LG's, and whether or not it is one of the well behaved ones - and some packs ARE well behaved and respectful, including, belatedly, my local pack. Much better for LG to be fully prepared in case they are not, just in case.

 

[ycbm]

Also the idea that sabs would not be there if hunts were hunting within the law, as someone who hunts with a legal, open, and honest trail pack, I can assure you this is definitely not the case. Ime sabs do not care I'm afraid.

You need to blame other hunts which are, or were until recently, still hunting fox for that. And 2020 lockdown podcasts giving advice how to do that. As long as there are hunts still hunting fox, sabs will quite understandably mistrust all trail hunts. I don't condone illegal behaviour by sabs, but drag packs have no history of being sabbed, other than one or two misguided incidents over decades.

Does your hunt invite monitors out with you? Perhaps if not you should get in touch with packs who do and see how they got rid of sabbing?
.