Meowy Catkin
Meow!
That sounds like an excellent plan to me. I hope that it all goes smoothly. 
Hunt coming through yard
- Thread starter LadyGascoyne
- Start date
Orangehorse
Well-Known Member
If they have permission from the land owner they can use the footpath.
LadyGascoyne
Well-Known Member
The footpath runs through the middle of my yard and they have been told not to go onto the yard.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I have thoroughly enjoyed the hunting I have done, as has Frank.
The palo mare had never hunted though they had had meets at her yard. They've never even hunted that close to us but if she heard them she would walk the field for days. So in and sedated.
She was also set off by mum having radio 4 on in the yard the last day of legal hunting, where they were recording live with a hunt somewhere.
I think we're pretty use to horses not being logical beings/making the best decisions for themselves aren't we? ?
The palo mare had never hunted though they had had meets at her yard. They've never even hunted that close to us but if she heard them she would walk the field for days. So in and sedated
. She was also set off by mum having radio 4 on in the yard the last day of legal hunting, where they were recording live with a hunt somewhere.
I think we're pretty use to horses not being logical beings/making the best decisions for themselves aren't we? ?
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
.
Section off the no go areas with electric tape (not electrified) and cones, just to reinforce the point for those who may not have got the message.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I might add that midweek in hampshire we only seemed to get 10 max people out which wouldn't be too many to herd if it isn't a saturday
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
It's illegal (aka fox hunting) and unmannerly hunting inc trespassing which causes the issues, not genuine legal trail hunting where the aim is to avoid a kill.
Miss_Millie
Well-Known Member
So if you're anti-hunt or have never hunted, you're automatically an inexperienced horse person? That seems a bit of an ignorant sweeping statement, and a huge disservice to the many experienced horse people who practice various equestrian disciplines, not just in this country but across the world. I'm sure that many top level riders couldn't give a hoot about the British hunting traditions.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I do also think there is plenty of middle ground for hunting too. While I've had great experiences that doesn't mean I don't condemn some of the packs that seem to be lacking , and losing opportunities as a result.
, and losing opportunities as a result.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I don't support the publication. I use the forum because it provides useful information, help, support and hours of entertainment. The forum pays for itself with click through and advertising. It's a bonus that the forum allows proper uncensored debate about the reality of hunting.
My views on hunting have been formed from experience of over 40 years of adult horse owning and of going fox hunting and drag hunting.
.
paddi22
Well-Known Member
A lot of the newer generation wouldn't have ever crossed paths with hunting I'd imagine, as livery yards have changed a massive amount over the decades. In the 70's, all the yards around us were hunting yards, so you just grew up involved in it. I'd imagine that isn't the case now so people see it more objectively maybe? or without the nostalgia?
Caol Ila
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I find that statement odd. I've had horses for over 25 years -- given that I'm 38, that's most of my life -- and I have never hunted nor been around hunting. It's such a myopic view, that any "experienced" horse person would have been exposed to foxhunting and it's just these newbies who have no connection to it.
I'm here because it's a great forum, probably the most active and informative UK-based horse forum. The Chronicle of the Horse forum is also pretty good, but they are mostly American and Canadian. Keeps me connected to my roots, but this is usually more relevent because I live here.
All these posts make me feel relieved that there are no hunts around Milngavie.
I'm here because it's a great forum, probably the most active and informative UK-based horse forum. The Chronicle of the Horse forum is also pretty good, but they are mostly American and Canadian. Keeps me connected to my roots, but this is usually more relevent because I live here.
All these posts make me feel relieved that there are no hunts around Milngavie.
babymare
Well-Known Member
Well said x
palo1
Well-Known Member
I find the views on hunting here on the forum interesting from lots of points of view. I often cannot agree with some of the most insistent voices that are anti-hunt. My views are based on a huge range of experiences including being involved with fox hunting as a child, having anti-hunting inclinations and interests later on as a young adult and then returning to a pro-hunting point of view. Some of my feelings come from experience of fox, drag and trail hunting, others from a more philosophical and ethnographic point of view which has developed as a result of looking at other cultures, attitudes and the politics around social history and minority activities. Some of my views result from professional academic training around minorities and anthropology/ethnography. I am also keenly interested in wildlife, conservation and environmental issues. Horses have a part to play but for me, that is not necessarily the biggest part; I love riding with hounds, I love the sense of connection to an older, common heritage, I love the skill of those working hounds and the challenge of riding with hounds. It is pretty much an anathema to our usual carefully constructed, health and safety conscious, clean and tidy, suburbanised consumer way of life and for me it is precious. In all honesty I really struggle with aspects of the anti hunt dogma though I know that hunting has a very poor press which is leapt upon by some. For me there seems a huge 'issue' around class and privelege which is actually non-existent in reality. That makes it hard to take those anti-hunt statements seriously. Much of what I read and listen to that is anti-hunt seems plainly uninformed or deliberately misconstrued though I accept that the current Hunting Act and actions which resulted in it's inception are dire enough that both sides can argue around it!!
I ask myself often about the point of hunting and never find that I am persuaded that it is in fact pointless, outdated or any of the other things. Maybe one day I will! I would say though that viewed from outside the very polarised debate here in the UK the attacks on hunting and hunting communities look like and in fact are attacks on a traditional culture. When we view 'other' cultures - particularly those that are somehow considered 'indigenous' we would find that very, very troubling and in fact many would argue to save those historic cultures. Within societies where traditional indigenous cultures are threatened, the same discourse is presented by the 'modernising' or 'anti-traditional' factions. I don't necessarily want to draw any parallels with Jair Bolsanaro but his rhetoric around traditional cultures is horribly familiar. You can see, hear and read about this in relation too to Mongolia, the Amazon, the far North and other places. Hunting people are told they are outmoded, 'uncivilised' etc etc by the mainstream modern culture yet we, in our turn romanticise and can see, sometimes, the value of those exotic, historic and indigenous cultures. They are often viewed by us as internationally precious, significant and as holding something important for us for the future.
At the same time some people want to throw away our own version of that. That actually bothers me enormously on a fundamental level in lots of ways.
But I don't expect to convince anyone to my point of view here and I wouldn't want to say that anti-hunt people are 'inexperienced'. I just think there is a tragic level of myopia around red coats, people on horses (that is a historic fear of invaders at play too - very well researched in fact!!) and those terrible 'out of control' (always...) hounds; hounds which are brought up in people's homes, loved and cared for and respected for the extraordinary nose hunters that they are. I do think too that horse people are increasingly fearful and cautious in many ways - that doesn't lend itself to hunting.
As an aside, a huge number of elite riders of all disciplines support hunting in fact including Carl Hester, William Fox-Pitt, Bryony Frost and others.
I ask myself often about the point of hunting and never find that I am persuaded that it is in fact pointless, outdated or any of the other things. Maybe one day I will! I would say though that viewed from outside the very polarised debate here in the UK the attacks on hunting and hunting communities look like and in fact are attacks on a traditional culture. When we view 'other' cultures - particularly those that are somehow considered 'indigenous' we would find that very, very troubling and in fact many would argue to save those historic cultures. Within societies where traditional indigenous cultures are threatened, the same discourse is presented by the 'modernising' or 'anti-traditional' factions. I don't necessarily want to draw any parallels with Jair Bolsanaro but his rhetoric around traditional cultures is horribly familiar.
You can see, hear and read about this in relation too to Mongolia, the Amazon, the far North and other places. Hunting people are told they are outmoded, 'uncivilised' etc etc by the mainstream modern culture yet we, in our turn romanticise and can see, sometimes, the value of those exotic, historic and indigenous cultures. They are often viewed by us as internationally precious, significant and as holding something important for us for the future.At the same time some people want to throw away our own version of that. That actually bothers me enormously on a fundamental level in lots of ways.
But I don't expect to convince anyone to my point of view here and I wouldn't want to say that anti-hunt people are 'inexperienced'. I just think there is a tragic level of myopia around red coats, people on horses (that is a historic fear of invaders at play too - very well researched in fact!!) and those terrible 'out of control' (always...) hounds; hounds which are brought up in people's homes, loved and cared for and respected for the extraordinary nose hunters that they are. I do think too that horse people are increasingly fearful and cautious in many ways - that doesn't lend itself to hunting.
As an aside, a huge number of elite riders of all disciplines support hunting in fact including Carl Hester, William Fox-Pitt, Bryony Frost and others.
LadyGascoyne
Well-Known Member
Let’s not dwell too much on the rights or wrongs of attitudes to hunting.
It’s been really helpful to hear how others have managed having the hunt come through their fields.
Having strange horses and unusual activities in your fields is something to consider and plan for. And I’d say that’s regardless of whether you are pro or anti- or whether you have seasoned hunters or showy little Araby things like mine, who might faint at the sight of hounds and a hard days work.
Mim is largely under-exposed to things like this. Her four and five year old years have been set back by me working crazy hours during COVID. I absolutely take responsibility for her lack of familiarity with equine activities. She does need to get out more but I can’t regret making the choices I’ve had to make to handle work and letting her spend a few more years doing nothing. There are reasons other than an owner’s inexperience for uncertainty and concern as to how a horse might respond to seeing the hunt.
It’s been really helpful to hear how others have managed having the hunt come through their fields.
Having strange horses and unusual activities in your fields is something to consider and plan for. And I’d say that’s regardless of whether you are pro or anti- or whether you have seasoned hunters or showy little Araby things like mine, who might faint at the sight of hounds and a hard days work.
Mim is largely under-exposed to things like this. Her four and five year old years have been set back by me working crazy hours during COVID. I absolutely take responsibility for her lack of familiarity with equine activities. She does need to get out more but I can’t regret making the choices I’ve had to make to handle work and letting her spend a few more years doing nothing. There are reasons other than an owner’s inexperience for uncertainty and concern as to how a horse might respond to seeing the hunt.
paddi22
Well-Known Member
I always love reading your writings about hunting and your passion so clearly shows through, and you speak so eloquently about it.
Playing devil's advocate, I think you come from a very shuttered viewpoint on what class and privilege are. Hunting in England has always been class related. If you don't think that's true then go into any working class area and see how many red coats you find. To think hunting in England is accessible by everyone is a bit naive. Surely it's always been the wealthy and landowners that form the basis historically of hunts?
When I read your connection and knowledge of nature, it is a million miles away from my local hunts who don't have the same viewpoint or respect for the countryside as you do.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I am struggling a bit to consider hampshire to be like the amazon but
I find it odd that other posters seem to struggle with the concept that maybe not all hunts are as well behaved as the ones they have been out with.
I have only ever seen privilege on the hunting field inc foot followers. Though it was amusing at one point that the very large estate we were riding on owner mentioned he'd bought all the land between there and town as it had been earmarked for buidling and it would spoil the view when another follower mentioned said estate used to belong to his family until one of them had gambled it all away - so he did have less privilege than he might have done ?
I find it odd that other posters seem to struggle with the concept that maybe not all hunts are as well behaved as the ones they have been out with.
I have only ever seen privilege on the hunting field inc foot followers. Though it was amusing at one point that the very large estate we were riding on owner mentioned he'd bought all the land between there and town as it had been earmarked for buidling and it would spoil the view when another follower mentioned said estate used to belong to his family until one of them had gambled it all away - so he did have less privilege than he might have done ?
Miss_Millie
Well-Known Member
Indigenous cultures/First Nations peoples such as let's say native Canadians have historically survived genocide, ethnic cleansing, kidnap via residential schools, colonisation, continue to struggle to live their traditional way of life in the 21st century which they rely on to survive, as many tribes live in food desserts where it literally costs $25 for a punnet of strawberries, they hunt to survive.
In the UK people historically hunted foxes for fun, they are mostly middle class people as keeping horses is an expensive hobby, they can go back to the comfort of their homes and make dinner, in the past foxes were not eaten as far as I'm aware, people were not killing them to survive. Historically, the wealthy who hunted probably also used black slaves to build their fancy houses. The National Trust has started to address the link to colonialism and slavery in the houses they preserve, many of which I imagine have big oil paintings of men in red coats on the walls.
So conflating First Nations peoples declining with the decline of British Fox hunting...well I don't see what there is to compare really.
Flowerofthefen
Well-Known Member
Haven't managed to read all replies yet so sorry if this has been said! I think people are more anti hunt now as years ago you were allowed to hunt. The hunts seemed to be run differently, back then they were polite and carried out the farmers wishes. Now they aren't supposed to hunt , but they do, that pisses me off, they are obnoxious and think they can do anything ride anywhere. Every time a hunt gets caught out and it goes to court they are let off which gets leoples backs up even more. As an aside I use this forum for the mass of information it has, I don't subscribe to anything on here and I don't read horse and hound!!
cauda equina
Well-Known Member
As for where Horse & Hound comes from - too old to pull? Go hunting instead!
https://allpoetry.com/The-Good-Grey-Mare
https://allpoetry.com/The-Good-Grey-Mare
palo1
Well-Known Member
LadyGascoyne's thread doesn't deserve to be totally derailed but you have expressed this view about indigenous people previously around hunting. I actually make a specific reference to indigenous cultures and not people but anyway! I think there is a huge problem with your viewpoint though; when does a 'person' become 'indigenous enough' to be allowed to maintain a culture that others find outdated or difficult in some way? That is indeed a very dangerous path to follow tbh as it leads also to questions around other 'enoughs' - for example of being 'black enough' or 'white enough' or 'muslim enough' or 'wearing too much' or 'wearing not enough'. I get that you see a huge distance between my view and your own - that is fair enough but you also need to bear in mind that a number of reasonably qualified and respected bodies such as UNESCO assert that traditional cultures including hunting cultures are vital and should be protected for a number of reasons. UNESCO have protected aspects of European hunting culture and have mourned the loss of UK Foxhunting culture - in fact the demise of fox hunting here has hastened elements of UNESCO protection in other parts of Europe. It is a big topic for discussion and this isn't the right place for it tbh but I would ask you to consider your own prejudices and ideas on the nature of 'indigenous' enough, not to mention the fact that every indigenous hunting culture has involved sport hunting as well as direct food hunting; the two are often inseparable. Indigenous people are not quite so separate to the discussion as you would like to think.
palo1
Well-Known Member
I am struggling a bit to consider hampshire to be like the amazon but
I find it odd that other posters seem to struggle with the concept that maybe not all hunts are as well behaved as the ones they have been out with.
I have only ever seen privilege on the hunting field inc foot followers. Though it was amusing at one point that the very large estate we were riding on owner mentioned he'd bought all the land between there and town as it had been earmarked for buidling and it would spoil the view when another follower mentioned said estate used to belong to his family until one of them had gambled it all away - so he did have less privilege than he might have done ?
Well...we do have some habitats that are as rare, if not rarer than parts of the Amazon lol!! As for privelege on the hunting field I can only say that in lots of parts of the UK hunts are formed from working communities; farmers hunts, miners hunts etc. This is really well documented in fact though I guess the 'privelege' of some hunts is also reflected in that general trend in that area - where there have been traditionally very wealthy land owners who may be more removed from actual work than in other places! I accept that some hunts (or individuals) misbehave to the detriment of everyone.
palo1
Well-Known Member
Sorry but your statement about class and privelege in hunting just isn't true - there is plenty of documentation about farmers hunts, miners hunts (oop North and in Wales). Our own hunt is about as working class as you could possibly imagine (though there is more tweed than red on show I grant you!!). Thank you for your kind words too. If you take away the word hunting too, this has been an activity that men, women, children, old and young, skilled and unskilled etc have participated in. I could go on...
palo1
Well-Known Member
@Miss_Millie - you said 'Historically, the wealthy who hunted probably also used black slaves to build their fancy houses. The National Trust has started to address the link to colonialism and slavery in the houses they preserve, many of which I imagine have big oil paintings of men in red coats on the walls.'
Yes, wealth from slavery enabled rich white people to engage in all sorts of pursuits including the building of houses that the Trust is designed to safeguard. Hunting is a long way from being the only thing that slave money enabled too - are you suggesting that the where there is a link to music, art galleries, historic building etc those should be 'removed' ? I actually think the removal of statues (or the reassignation at least) is an interesting development to address the whole issue and narrative of slavery in our history but a desire to go fox hunting was never a driver for slavery. I think there are far bigger and I think, more important cultural fish to fry on that score tbh.
Yes, wealth from slavery enabled rich white people to engage in all sorts of pursuits including the building of houses that the Trust is designed to safeguard. Hunting is a long way from being the only thing that slave money enabled too - are you suggesting that the where there is a link to music, art galleries, historic building etc those should be 'removed' ? I actually think the removal of statues (or the reassignation at least) is an interesting development to address the whole issue and narrative of slavery in our history but a desire to go fox hunting was never a driver for slavery. I think there are far bigger and I think, more important cultural fish to fry on that score tbh.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Let's not pretend that the majority of people who ride to hounds are not posh and from privileged backgrounds .
Keeping horses is expensive enough without factoring in the costs of hunting on top.
There are the outliers in the back of beyond where more grounded country types predominate, which is Palo's background, but the more mainstream packs are loaded with money.
TP, who hunted pre ban with 5 packs foxhounds, 2 packs harriers, 0 packs drag.
.Keeping horses is expensive enough without factoring in the costs of hunting on top.
There are the outliers in the back of beyond where more grounded country types predominate, which is Palo's background, but the more mainstream packs are loaded with money.
TP, who hunted pre ban with 5 packs foxhounds, 2 packs harriers, 0 packs drag.
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rabatsa
Confuddled
LG in your case I would stable the first time and if there are no extreme reactions from the horses forget the radio noise next time. If you are not careful they will come to expect excitment when the radio is playing. If they still behave the second time then have them in a field for the following visit.
Sometimes if people make a big issue out of something they can actually cause what they do not want.
A friend is convinced that the hunt winds up her horses but her anxiously checking them every five minutes winds them up even if the hunt do not come anywhere close. The hunt came round, on hound exercise one day when she was not expecting them so was not at home, and according to the neighbour they hung over the gate to watch them go by just like they do with ordinary dog walkers, or a group hack from the livery yard further along the lane.
Sometimes if people make a big issue out of something they can actually cause what they do not want.
A friend is convinced that the hunt winds up her horses but her anxiously checking them every five minutes winds them up even if the hunt do not come anywhere close. The hunt came round, on hound exercise one day when she was not expecting them so was not at home, and according to the neighbour they hung over the gate to watch them go by just like they do with ordinary dog walkers, or a group hack from the livery yard further along the lane.
Miss_Millie
Well-Known Member
Well to simplify my point, First Nations peoples have been fighting for their way of life, which they rely on to survive, for decades as a result colonialism/white supremacy/genocide.
Fox hunting was outlawed because the majority of the UK public think it is cruel and barbaric. As you know, people can still 'hunt' within the law, it just doesn't involve killing wildlife anymore.
Fox hunting was outlawed because the majority of the UK public think it is cruel and barbaric. As you know, people can still 'hunt' within the law, it just doesn't involve killing wildlife anymore.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I do try not to pick holes in small parts of your arguments Palo but I simply can't let you get away with this.
Hounds live as puppies with puppy walkers and they are not generally brought up in people's homes because that would spoil them for the life in kennels that they will have as juveniles and adults. The ones I've seen, many, were kept outside in the yards of people who live in country properties.
As hounds, they live in large groups in sex segregated cages bedded like horses (not in Petsmart dog nests). The packs I have seen, many, all contain numerous hounds with scars on them. Some of those are injuries from hunting, often from climbing barbed wire. Some are kennel injuries because dogs kept as a pack will fight. When they disobey the huntsman they are whipped (and a hunt has two "whippers in" with very long whips for the purpose). As soon as they are no longer useful to the hunt, the vast majority are shot.
THOSE are the facts, not what you wrote.
.
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rabatsa
Confuddled
ycbm hounds from my local pack do live in houses, over the years I have been asked to walk puppies and was not expected to have outside kennels for them.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
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