Hunting is in a spot of bother

Burnttoast

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This article, whilst obviously written from a position of an interested party, does make for interesting reading.

https://www.gwct.org.uk/policy/brie...hooting/conservation-on-grouse-moors/#block-5

It makes some good points about positive impacts of management of grouse moor on some other rare species.
Given that these species have existed for millennia before grouse shooting was a thing (and continue to exist across Eurasia where grouse shooting is still not a thing), though, it's clearly far from the only management system/environment in which they can exist
 

Peglo

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Fwiw I’ve seen thousands of birds thrown in holes because the folk who shot them didn’t want to eat them, just kill them. But of course geese are “pests” and it’s not worth plucking wild ducks…..
 

Burnttoast

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I'm sure this has been asked before, but do those people who are against hunting and shooting, want to see both coarse and fly fishing banned?
In an ideal world I'd like to see all sport and large-scale commercial fishing banned. The latter on both welfare and environmental grounds. As far as sport fishing is concerned it's complicated by the fact that sport anglers are a big pressure group in favour of clean river/marine environments (not that that seems to be helping with the current sewage situation), but I wish people could find pleasure in the clean and thriving environment for its own sake, not because they like doing the fish equivalent of waterboarding their victims.
 

YorksG

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In an ideal world I'd like to see all sport and large-scale commercial fishing banned. The latter on both welfare and environmental grounds. As far as sport fishing is concerned it's complicated by the fact that sport anglers are a big pressure group in favour of clean river/marine environments (not that that seems to be helping with the current sewage situation), but I wish people could find pleasure in the clean and thriving environment for its own sake, not because they like doing the fish equivalent of waterboarding their victims.
So sport fishing is possibly OK because of conservation, but the same cannot be said of hunting and shooting, although there is evidence that both can benefit conservation programmes?
 

Koweyka

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I would love see all hunting and shooting and fishing stopped, killing the natural world for mans fleeting enjoyment is disgusting. Why not enjoy the natural world, marvel at it instead of hunting and shooting and drowning it ….. But then I have spent the last two weeks watching some disgusting fox hunts terrorising wildlife without a care in the world, the human race is disgusting.
 

paddy555

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Shooting is indeed legal for now, although IMHO morally it is much less defensible than hunting. Make the most of the time you have left.

To my mind indefensible full stop. Worse than hunting and I would like to see both banned.
We don't have grouse shooting on our moorland the shoot is down in the valleys on farmland. I cannot see the logic or the need to breed and buy ducks and pheasants, turn them loose and then form a group of people for a jolly day out to shoot them.

Our moorland doesn't look like the nice pic YCBM posted about 5 pages ago. No beautiful heather just impenetrable gorse of which only a very tiny amount gets burnt each spring. We are very lucky to have the odd firebreak cut through but many more are needed.
 

Sandstone1

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"If immoral."

Every bird we shoot gets eaten. How is that immoral?
Oh where to start. One pheasants are not a native species. Two I very much doubt every bird does in reality get eaten. Three birds will suffer as not often killed instantly. Four Is it really ethical to breed birds to just to release in to the country side simply to shoot? I do not know a great deal about shooting but to me as a outsider it seems cruel and pointless.
 

Fred66

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Given that these species have existed for millennia before grouse shooting was a thing (and continue to exist across Eurasia where grouse shooting is still not a thing), though, it's clearly far from the only management system/environment in which they can exist
Possibly but some animals are at risk both in the UK and the rest of the world due to a loss of habitat and higher numbers of predators.

Do you object to conserving habitats for say tigers, elephants, rhinos etc ? Or do you think they should just take their chance ?

If not then why do you believe it’s wrong to conserve habitats for Curlew, Snipe, Merlin, Mountain Hare etc ?
 

Fred66

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I would love see all hunting and shooting and fishing stopped, killing the natural world for mans fleeting enjoyment is disgusting. Why not enjoy the natural world, marvel at it instead of hunting and shooting and drowning it ….. But then I have spent the last two weeks watching some disgusting fox hunts terrorising wildlife without a care in the world, the human race is disgusting.
I wouldn’t necessarily disagree that elements of the human race are disgusting, but to me hunting of other animals is not one of these things. Many animals in this world are involved in hunting one way or another and I don’t find their need to hunt disgusting. It is a part of the natural world that you suggest we enjoy.
 

Koweyka

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I wouldn’t necessarily disagree that elements of the human race are disgusting, but to me hunting of other animals is not one of these things. Many animals in this world are involved in hunting one way or another and I don’t find their need to hunt disgusting. It is a part of the natural world that you suggest we enjoy.

Well animals aren’t paying a fortune to stand in a field with a gun to blast other animals out of the sky for fun are they. They hunt to survive to exist, it’s natural and nothing disgusting about it. Mans desire to hunt and kill a sentient creature for a few seconds of fun is abhorrent. I wish the tables could be turned and humans experienced the terror of “driven human shooting” “humans being chased by a pack of wild dogs” “ huge hooks in their mouths while having a peaceful swim” “ the fear of having their brains blown out simply for walking across a field at night”
 

YorksG

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Well animals aren’t paying a fortune to stand in a field with a gun to blast other animals out of the sky for fun are they. They hunt to survive to exist, it’s natural and nothing disgusting about it. Mans desire to hunt and kill a sentient creature for a few seconds of fun is abhorrent. I wish the tables could be turned and humans experienced the terror of “driven human shooting” “humans being chased by a pack of wild dogs” “ huge hooks in their mouths while having a peaceful swim” “ the fear of having their brains blown out simply for walking across a field at night”
Do you seriously believe that animals have those thought processes and fears?
 

HeresHoping

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It doesn't say whether those were breasted off or not? Bit hard to tell from the picture. It does say carcasses, which suggests the meat has been stripped.

I can't comment on every shoot. However, the shoots I work with have a policy of every bird shot must be taken home. Unless it's grouse - where there is an agent who comes to take the birds and they are sent to restaurants.

We, along with a great many corporate and private shoots, send a deal of birds here: https://www.thecountryfoodtrust.org/

We, along with a great many corporate and private shoots, pledge to eat what we kill. Indeed, when I do lunches for shoots we do pheasant sausages, partridge tikka goujons, and pheasant pie.

Besides which, I find it very difficult to attribute impartiality to any video shot by animal rights activists - there's always a part of the story that is in some way biased; and also, we haven't as many birds any more. Price of grain and bird flu have considerably reduced the amounts reared.
 
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Peglo

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Possibly but some animals are at risk both in the UK and the rest of the world due to a loss of habitat and higher numbers of predators.

Do you object to conserving habitats for say tigers, elephants, rhinos etc ? Or do you think they should just take their chance ?

If not then why do you believe it’s wrong to conserve habitats for Curlew, Snipe, Merlin, Mountain Hare etc ?

loss of habitat because humans are taking up so much of the planet. Tigers and elephants wouldn’t need so much conservation if humans weren’t hell bent on destroying the species.

I watched a program that showed them shooting mountain hares because they were giving the grouse ticks and they “needed” to shoot the grouse. That I felt was shocking. Sorry to quote you particularly but just a few points.
 

Fred66

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Lions kill for food to survive and feed the rest of the pride. Not for fun or sport. There is no comparison.
There are animals out there that kill for reasons other than food or survival.

Whilst some elements of hunting by humans might not always be for food, there is quite often an element that either directly or indirectly is related to the food chain or protection of that food chain.
 

Sandstone1

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There are animals out there that kill for reasons other than food or survival.

Whilst some elements of hunting by humans might not always be for food, there is quite often an element that either directly or indirectly is related to the food chain or protection of that food chain.
Fox hunting and shooting are predominantly for pleasure. There are not many people that shoot to survive these days. You can hardly compare a animal hunting for food to a organised shoot, The only animal I can think of that kills for fun is the domestic cat.
 

Fred66

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Question away, I turned the tables on what we do to animals in the name of “sport” perhaps you find the analogy uncomfortable.
Obviously I can’t speak for YG, but on the basis that I agree with most of what she has posted on this thread , then no I don’t find it uncomfortable . I find the assigning of human emotions to animals a bit of a pointless exercise.

Yes they feel pain and yes they can feel a form of fear but broadly speaking this is in the abstract. A flight animal such as a hare reacts to the immediate and imminent threat, it will be alert to its environment and potential dangers posed, but there is no evidence to suggest that they have the capacity to envisage the thought processes required to contemplate their mortality or dwell upon previous near misses or future events .

With predators such as a lion then the level of response to danger is even less evident. They are rarely hunted and danger is normally encountered when the prey they hunt fights rather than flees. There is minimal signs of fear in their reactions.
 
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