Hunting is in a spot of bother

Sandstone1

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Why ban dragging, though?
That makes it feel as if Steve Reed doesn't really understand the problem
Or perhaps there have been instances of draghounds rioting onto live quarry? I've never heard of that happening but perhaps it does
Maybe if drag hunting were more vocal in distancing themselves from illegal hunting and educated the public they would have a chance. This farce can not go on. Hunts are just carrying on as they did pre ban with lots of evidence to the fact.
 

Abacus

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Likewise I have never known of true draghounds hunting wildlife or pets, and they tend to be in confined private areas so they don't go across land uninvited. It's hard to imagine the wording of that law, as really it's a bunch of people going for a ride with some dogs. It would be a terrible shame fr the drag hunts that are genuinely doing no harm to be brought down by the trail hunts that are blatantly hunting foxes still.
 

ycbm

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Why ban dragging, though?
That makes it feel as if Steve Reed doesn't really understand the problem
Or perhaps there have been instances of draghounds rioting onto live quarry? I've never heard of that happening but perhaps it does

I suspect it's an assumption that if they don't ban drag then the fox hunters will pretend to be drag hunting. But drag hunts, from personal experience, often behave as antisocially (but not ilegally) as fox hunts in areas which are now too populated for people to accept stuff like blocked roads, trashed verges, scarred hounds, dog walkers run off country paths, etc.

Yes drag hounds do kill farm animals, I have seen them kill a lamb when we were out one day.

I think the truth is that most of the countryside close enough to a population of riders big enough to form a field who can pay the subs needed to finance the pack is just too crowded these days.
.
 

Tiddlypom

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It explains a lot of what has been happening this season 🤔.

There’s no point toeing the line and trying to trail hunt legally when the whole shebang of hunting with hounds is for the cull when Labour get in.

The naughty hunts have brought hunting down, and they have never cared a fig about the bloodhound packs, the drag hunts or the trying-their-best-to-be-legal trail packs that they will bring down too.

It will be much simpler legislation just to ban the lot, and much easier to police.
 

Koweyka

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This season the hunts haven’t even pretended to lay trails, I think they know they are done for and it will all thankfully come to an end. The amount of trespassing and criminal damage I have seen this season by the hunts has been extraordinary, I know three landowners going through the courts obtaining injunctions against just one hunt.

The control of the hounds by the huntsmen I have seen this season shows a marked deterioration from when I first started going out.

All needs banning, I was on the fence a little regarding drag hunts, but to be honest I believe drag hunting will just be hijacked by the fox hunts in another feeble attempt to go out and kill foxes. Bring on the election !
 

Tiddlypom

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The highly suspect and dubious secret protocol between Warwickshire Police, whose PCC is a member of the Countryside Alliance 🤔, and the Warwickshire Hunt was the subject of a 13 minute segment on Channel 4 news tonight. If watching on catch up, it is on from 33 mins to 46 mins in.

The secret protocol is so secret that neither the local MP or the National lead on policing in hunting, or indeed anyone else, have been able to find out just what the heck is in it 😳.

What it does do is to let the Warwickshire Hunt off the hook re the CPN that was previously issued to it due to antisocial behaviour causing traffic chaos.

This cosy arrangement stank from the start. Well done C4 for airing it. Surely the Warwickshire Police will now be forced to make public the secret protocol and how it came to be.
 

Koweyka

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The highly suspect and dubious secret protocol between Warwickshire Police, whose PCC is a member of the Countryside Alliance 🤔, and the Warwickshire Hunt was the subject of a 13 minute segment on Channel 4 news tonight. If watching on catch up, it is on from 33 mins to 46 mins in.

The secret protocol is so secret that neither the local MP or the National lead on policing in hunting, or indeed anyone else, have been able to find out just what the heck is in it 😳.

What it does do is to let the Warwickshire Hunt off the hook re the CPN that was previously issued to it due to antisocial behaviour causing traffic chaos.

This cosy arrangement stank from the start. Well done C4 for airing it. Surely the Warwickshire Police will now be forced to make public the secret protocol and how it came to be.
Absolutely fascinating viewing, change is definitely coming I felt that from listening to the police officer and this shady side deal is another nail in the trail hunt coffin.
 

Horseperson432

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Real numpty question: why is fox hunting more fun than trail hunting, from a riding point of view? Doesn't it tend to lead to more hanging around, and more trying to cross impassable country, and generally more frustration?
I hunt and bloodhound (trail hunting) and honestly find blood hounding to be far more enjoyable… sorry, very controversial I know!! The best days out hunting when the hounds are flying are like nothing else but they’re so so infrequent. Blood hounding I know that with the large amount of money I pay for a day in guaranteed to get some good jumping in. May be just because I’m an adrenaline junky but I go to jump big hedges after a few glasses of port and with blood hounding that’s generally a guarantee, Unlike hunting. I suppose I see it a bit like a massive team chase. It will be a massive shame if hunting comes to an end as I have had some good days out but if a ban takes trail hunting down too I’ll be heartbroken.
 

Indy

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I hunt and bloodhound (trail hunting) and honestly find blood hounding to be far more enjoyable… sorry, very controversial I know!! The best days out hunting when the hounds are flying are like nothing else but they’re so so infrequent. Blood hounding I know that with the large amount of money I pay for a day in guaranteed to get some good jumping in. May be just because I’m an adrenaline junky but I go to jump big hedges after a few glasses of port and with blood hounding that’s generally a guarantee, Unlike hunting. I suppose I see it a bit like a massive team chase. It will be a massive shame if hunting comes to an end as I have had some good days out but if a ban takes trail hunting down too I’ll be heartbroken.
Trail hunting and hunting with bloodhounds are different things, it's trail hunting not sticking to the rules what have caused the problems. If you were trail hunting surely there'd be no reason for stopping/starting because you'd be following a pre laid trail?
 

Sandstone1

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The highly suspect and dubious secret protocol between Warwickshire Police, whose PCC is a member of the Countryside Alliance 🤔, and the Warwickshire Hunt was the subject of a 13 minute segment on Channel 4 news tonight. If watching on catch up, it is on from 33 mins to 46 mins in.

The secret protocol is so secret that neither the local MP or the National lead on policing in hunting, or indeed anyone else, have been able to find out just what the heck is in it 😳.

What it does do is to let the Warwickshire Hunt off the hook re the CPN that was previously issued to it due to antisocial behaviour causing traffic chaos.

This cosy arrangement stank from the start. Well done C4 for airing it. Surely the Warwickshire Police will now be forced to make public the secret protocol and how it came to be.
I really hope things will now change. The complete arrogance of the Master saying " Well no one else needs to know" and saying after a clip of a fox being killed " IF we broke the law it will be investigated" The warwickshire hunt is deluded.
 

ester

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Trail hunting and hunting with bloodhounds are different things, it's trail hunting not sticking to the rules what have caused the problems. If you were trail hunting surely there'd be no reason for stopping/starting because you'd be following a pre laid trail?
each trail stops though, then you do too.
 

Burnerbee

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Absolutely vile… All those fragrant, upper class ladies on their posh horses making out butter wouldn’t melt - would they allow bear baiting in their back garden too? But chucking a live animal at dozens of dogs? That’s okay because ‘it’s tradition’. Everyone involved should be prosecuted and forced to do community service where they can see what real life looks like.
 

Clodagh

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Absolutely vile… All those fragrant, upper class ladies on their posh horses making out butter wouldn’t melt - would they allow bear baiting in their back garden too? But chucking a live animal at dozens of dogs? That’s okay because ‘it’s tradition’. Everyone involved should be prosecuted and forced to do community service where they can see what real life looks like.
Just to trot in a small but repetitive circle it is not tradition to throw a live fox to the hounds and genuine traditional hunting people were appalled by it.
 

Clodagh

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each trail stops though, then you do too.
And tbh if you are only interested in galloping and jumping and drinking why not just do a team chase, what do the hounds bring to the party in any form of drag hunting?
Although I can see that hunting the clean boot with bloodhounds would be interesting but the field tend to be so far back from the pack they may as well be out for a hack.
 

ycbm

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Just to trot in a small but repetitive circle it is not tradition to throw a live fox to the hounds and genuine traditional hunting people were appalled by it.

It was tradition with every hunt I knew that had terriermen and dug out foxes gone to earth. They can't hold and shoot a wriggling fox. What else can they do with them?
.
 

stormox

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It was tradition with every hunt I knew that had terriermen and dug out foxes gone to earth. They can't hold and shoot a wriggling fox. What else can they do with them?
.
Yes I think it was always done after a fox had been dug out. Mainly to give hounds a reward for their hard work, but also, as ycbm says, what else can they do?
 

Tiddlypom

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Just to trot in a small but repetitive circle it is not tradition to throw a live fox to the hounds and genuine traditional hunting people were appalled by it.
Um, long pre ban I was present as a mounted teenage follower when a fox which had run to ground was dug out in front of hounds. As it happens, the fox bolted clean away, cheered quietly on by a number of the field (including me). So it did used to happen.

I only saw it happen the once, but it certainly did used to be done.
 

Clodagh

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Um, long pre ban I was present as a mounted teenage follower when a fox which had run to ground was dug out in front of hounds. As it happens, the fox bolted clean away, cheered quietly on by a number of the field (including me). So it did used to happen.

I only saw it happen the once, but it certainly did used to be done.
Yes you could always bolt the fox, but it should be given fair law.
 

Clodagh

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It was tradition with every hunt I knew that had terriermen and dug out foxes gone to earth. They can't hold and shoot a wriggling fox. What else can they do with them?
.
Of course you can. I have attended many digs with him. The fox was shot while still in the earth as soon as you dug through to it.
If it was bolted from a drain into a net it was shot in the net.
 
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Clodagh

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Not all hunts behave the same.
No, of course not but it was standard decreed MFHA practice to shoot the fox before putting him to the hounds.
I cannot believe that every hunt I have ever been out with are the only ones following best practice. Are you sure, ycbm, that you have been really close up to the dig?
ETA other than the posted videos of course.
 

Tiddlypom

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In the case I witnessed of a dig, hounds were close to the dig and looking hopeful, and the field were not that far back either, which is how we witnessed the fox bolt and get away.

There was no one present with a gun to shoot it, it was intended that the hounds should take it down once it bolted.

It was a goodly number of years back, and I can’t be entirely sure which pack out of a shortlist of two that I was with that day.

Apart from that one time the fox was IME always given best if it went to ground.
 
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