Hunting is in a spot of bother

[Tiddlypom]

The MP in whose constituency the Warwickshire Hunt operates has written again to the Home Secretary re the secret protocol between Warwickshire Police and the Warwickshire Hunt.

His first letter about the matter was referred to Defra . Defra, who have absolutely nothing to do with law and order, and who sidelined it.

 

[Clodagh]

The MP in whose constituency the Warwickshire Hunt operates has written again to the Home Secretary re the secret protocol between Warwickshire Police and the Warwickshire Hunt.

His first letter about the matter was referred to Defra . Defra, who have absolutely nothing to do with law and order, and who sidelined it.

View attachment 135272

It really makes you wonder about what else is being ignored. I assumed police corruption was a thing of the past. Naive much!

 

[anguscat]

Is it just my imagination, but I think
I’m seeing a lot of really nice big horses up for sale that have been used for hunting.

 

[stormox]

Is it just my imagination, but I think
I’m seeing a lot of really nice big horses up for sale that have been used for hunting.

There usually are lots of hunters for sale at the end of the season.

 

[Miss_Millie]

"If this was a group of young people on motorbikes causing that level of damage and destruction etc we wouldn't be having this conversation" - well said Chief Superintendent.

 

[anguscat]

Errr…yes….been round the block a bit ….my impression is more than usual. Wondering if some smelling the coffee/Starmer.

There usually are lots of hunters for sale at the end of the sea

 

[Sandstone1]

"If this was a group of young people on motorbikes causing that level of damage and destruction etc we wouldn't be having this conversation" - well said Chief Superintendent.

Im glad some one said it.

 

[Millionwords]

Really long section on channel 4 the last day or two to do with Warwickshire police and the Warwickshire hunt potentially dodgy goings on. With the local MP involved in trying to get answers .

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=8058538334162093

Eta sorry already been posted. Didn't check first

 

[Indy]

The woman might as well have got a hammer and nailed the coffin shut herself. No wonder public perception is as it is.

The police officer sounded like he just wants the whole thing banned and be done with it. Well done the interviewer for persisting for straight answers

 

[Tiddlypom]

The hunts sabs are publishing details of an internal meeting involving named senior Warwickshire Police officers and their own Rural Police Crime Team.

The Warwickshire Police Rural Crime Team had plenty of evidence of anti social behaviour instances against the hunt and wanted another CPN to be placed on them. The senior officers’ response was allegedly to remove the Warwickshire Police Crime Team from policing the Warwickshire Hunt, and instead to farm it out to other sections.

Additionally, Warwickshire Police will allegedly refuse to accept any further video footage of the Warwickshire Hunt committing anti social offences from sab sources, and instead will only accept it from members of the public. Apparently ‘the public’ don’t complain about the hunt, it’s just the sabs.

Warwickshire Hunt to continue on their merry illegal way unbothered by the lower ranks in the police who were on to them.

 

[Clodagh]

The woman might as well have got a hammer and nailed the coffin shut herself. No wonder public perception is as it is.

The police officer sounded like he just wants the whole thing banned and be done with it. Well done the interviewer for persisting for straight answers

I did think at least she turned up and was interviewed, even if she said nothing, it would have been easier to issue a no comment.
And hunting, even when it was legal, was always reliant on the opinion of the county big man. If he was pro the antis got arrested, if he was anti they got ignored. Not right but the way it was. So the Plymouth guy is anti and Warks is pro. And extremely dodgy by the sound of things.

 

[clairebearfur1]

Fox hunting is not about controlling fox numbers. Its about the thrill of the chase. Its about a day out riding across the countryside and killing something. Lets be honest here.

True!! Its evil to chase and kill for pleasure. Its sick! Fox control can be done humanely

 

[Indy]

I did think at least she turned up and was interviewed, even if she said nothing, it would have been easier to issue a no comment.
And hunting, even when it was legal, was always reliant on the opinion of the county big man. If he was pro the antis got arrested, if he was anti they got ignored. Not right but the way it was. So the Plymouth guy is anti and Warks is pro. And extremely dodgy by the sound of things.

The way she came across, no comment would have been the better option, I think anyway

 

[YourValentine]

True!! Its evil to chase and kill for pleasure. Its sick! Fox control can be done humanely

Humane fox control is actually very hard.

Poison and trapping are not humane by any means.

It takes an incredibly good marksman to kill a fox (instantly) with one shot. Many are just severely injured and die later.

This is why for the badger cull marksmen have to be licensed, there are conditions on distance they can shoot from, with the ideal being point blank to a trapped badger, the calibre used, and carcasses are meant to be checked regularly for accuracy of shot and therefore speed of death (aka humane-ness).

Not saying it always happens but at least there are guidelines and standards. There is none of that for shooting foxes.

 

[Tiddlypom]

At least the Warwickshire Hunt master did turn up and face the cameras, though it was indeed a car crash interview.

That the Warwickshire Police Chief Constable refused to be interviewed on the matter was .

I suspect that a number of ‘useful idiots’ are going to take the rap for this, but I hope that those who are orchestrating it behind the scenes get brought to account, too.

This is much more sinister than a simple case of illegal hunting.

 

[Indy]

I wonder if in years to come there will be a docu-series about it

 

[Fransurrey]

This is why for the badger cull marksmen have to be licensed, there are conditions on distance they can shoot from, with the ideal being point blank to a trapped badger, the calibre used, and carcasses are meant to be checked regularly for accuracy of shot and therefore speed of death (aka humane-ness).

Not saying it always happens but at least there are guidelines and standards. There is none of that for shooting foxes.

Culled badgers are sent for TB screening as part of the process, so are seen by a resident pathologist, as well as members of the PM team. If there were multiple incidences of poor shooting I think it would be in the public domain, by now.

 

[Landcruiser]

At least the Warwickshire Hunt master did turn up and face the cameras, though it was indeed a car crash interview.

That the Warwickshire Police Chief Constable refused to be interviewed on the matter was .

I suspect that a number of ‘useful idiots’ are going to take the rap for this, but I hope that those who are orchestrating it behind the scenes get brought to account, too.

This is much more sinister than a simple case of illegal hunting.

She presented like a parody Tory toff - strong echoes of Rosie Holt ( A comedian, for anyone unable to tell the difference between parody and reality - which is totally forgivable these days!)

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I'm not sure about the "Fox control is hard" argument. Here, for example, you can trap them if they're a nuisance and then shoot them point blank. You are required to check your traps at certain hourly intervals, and nowadays you can just set up a camera too.

Sometimes you also don't catch a fox and might catch a racoon that you have to release, for example. So it can be more time consuming to some extent, but if you're actually interested in things being a bit more humane and less damaging, then I'd think that this could be an attractive option.

 

[Clodagh]

I'm not sure about the "Fox control is hard" argument. Here, for example, you can trap them if they're a nuisance and then shoot them point blank. You are required to check your traps at certain hourly intervals, and nowadays you can just set up a camera too.

Sometimes you also don't catch a fox and might catch a racoon that you have to release, for example. So it can be more time consuming to some extent, but if you're actually interested in things being a bit more humane and less damaging, then I'd think that this could be an attractive option.

Some foxes are too clever to be trapped. Saying that though, I don’t think shooting them is a welfare issue, with modern guns and night vision. I’ve been on many a nights lamping and they’ve all been instantly dead.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Some foxes are too clever to be trapped. Saying that though, I don’t think shooting them is a welfare issue, with modern guns and night vision. I’ve been on many a nights lamping and they’ve all been instantly dead.

I'm not saying that shooting them is a welfare issue. It's all of the asshattery that takes place with the hunts that's the welfare issue. I mean, how on earth do other places control the fox population without hunts on horseback? It surely is not impossible. That's my point; there are other ways that cause less destruction to the land and less stress/interference to/with the public and still control the fox population.

 

[ycbm]

I'm not saying that shooting them is a welfare issue. It's all of the asshattery that takes place with the hunts that's the welfare issue. I mean, how on earth do other places control the fox population without hunts on horseback? It surely is not impossible. That's my point; there are other ways that cause less destruction to the land and less stress/interference to/with the public and still control the fox population.

If you listen to the hunters justify fox hunting you could easily come to the conclusion that the entire country is hunted by hounds. In fact vast swathes of countryside haven't been hunted with a pack of hounds for a very long time, if ever. Those areas are controlled by shooting the foxes which are known to be taking livestock and poultry, not by chasing whichever one you come across with a pack of hounds. Like Clodagh, I know some night shooters and they would be very embarrassed to ever miss.

Some people do use snares, and I do not understand why snares are still legal. They are utterly vile.
.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I'm obviously not articulating my point correctly. Thank you for the discussion.

 

[Sandstone1]

Fox hunting is not about pest control. If it were, then hunts would not actively encourage foxes by feeding them and making environments to encourage them to breed.
why do you think they do that? To give them something to chase so they can have their sport. If it were really about pest control they would be riding down your local high street. There are far more urban foxes around.
They should just be honest with themselves and the public. They go hunting for the thrill of the chase and the ride across country. They enjoy watching hounds work and they enjoy the actual kill.
It is a simple as that.

 

[Clodagh]

If you listen to the hunters justify fox hunting you could easily come to the conclusion that the entire country is hunted by hounds. In fact vast swathes of countryside haven't been hunted with a pack of hounds for a very long time, if ever. Those areas are controlled by shooting the foxes which are known to be taking livestock and poultry, not by chasing whichever one you come across with a pack of hounds. Like Clodagh, I know some night shooters and they would be very embarrassed to ever miss.

Some people do use snares, and I do not understand why snares are still legal. They are utterly vile.
.

The threat of snares is very handy for getting dog walkers to keep their furbaby on the footpath.

 

[Juniper Jack]

Of course you can. I have attended many digs with him. The fox was shot while still in the earth as soon as you dug through to it.
If it was bolted from a drain into a net it was shot in the net.

That's despicable.

 

[Jemima50]

True!! Its evil to chase and kill for pleasure. Its sick! Fox control can be done humanely

That's what foxes do , I came home one day and all my chickens had been killed by a fox in broad daylight , he only took one.
That fox killed for fun.

 

[meleeka]

That's what foxes do , I came home one day and all my chickens had been killed by a fox in broad daylight , he only took one.
That fox killed for fun.

I don’t believe it’s for fun. I think it’s adrenaline that causes them to kill more than they need. I had a JRT that would kill every small furry she came across, given the chance. If she found a load of mice in one place, she would kill them all, and not actually eat any of them. She was doing what came naturally to her, her instinct and what she was bred for. She never got the chance, but I’m pretty sure she’d have been the same with chickens. I think a fox is less likely to kill if the birds stopped flapping, but of course they aren’t going to do that. My dog was perfectly calm and lovely with humans and anything bigger than her, so not aggressive in the slightest.

 

[Juniper Jack]

I think i have read that cats have the same instinct. Maybe it is done for practice; I don't know. But I've just now Googled it and apparently there are lots of creatures who do this.

 

[Sandstone1]

That's what foxes do , I came home one day and all my chickens had been killed by a fox in broad daylight , he only took one.
That fox killed for fun.

Cats do this but do we hunt cats? No. As I said its not about pest control. Its a jolly day out. Be honest!