Hunting is in a spot of bother

[minesadouble]

I will never understand the argument that its acceptable to hunt/shoot to eat but not for sport.

Firstly it makes no difference to the living animal what happens to its carcass once it is dead.

Secondly we, as humans, do not NEED to eat meat to survive. We eat meat solely because we (most of us) enjoy the taste/texture of meat.

So, if you're not vegetarian you are just as guilty of causing the death of an animal for your enjoyment as anyone whose sporting interest results in the death of an animal.

If I had to choose to come back as either a chicken destined for the human food chain or a fox which may or may not be hunted by a pack of foxhounds I know which I'd choose.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I will never understand the argument that its acceptable to hunt/shoot to eat but not for sport.

Firstly it makes no difference to the living animal what happens to its carcass once it is dead.

Secondly we, as humans, do not NEED to eat meat to survive. We eat meat solely because we (most of us) enjoy the taste/texture of meat.

So, if you're not vegetarian you are just as guilty of causing the death of an animal for your enjoyment as anyone whose sporting interest results in the death of an animal.

If I had to choose to come back as either a chicken destined for the human food chain or a fox which may or may not be hunted by a pack of foxhounds I know which I'd choose.

And equally I cannot see why the pro hunt brigade do not see the difference between being seen to ‘apparently’ relish and enjoy the chase and killing of a frightened wild animal and the eating of well reared and humanely despatched farm animals.

The hunters are seen to be enjoying the fear they create in their prey. Now, as a former fox hunter, I do not think that this is largely true, but blood lust is what the public sees and believes, and why not?

Btw I thoroughly agree about the mass production of broiler chicken, which is grim from start to finish.

Have a look at this, filmed on Oct 7 2020 and reported in The Times. Now, I know slightly less than b00ger all about stag hunting, but nothing will persuade me that this was a humane end for an injured stag. It had been apparently been pre identified as needing to be euthanised as it was injured. So the most humane end for this seriously injured animal was to single it out, persue it with whooping riders who were cracking their whips at it so that it could eventually be cornered and then shot by a marksman?

I don’t think so, though doubtless someone will pop up and say that the hunt derived no pleasure from this, necessary job and all that.

I believe that all that is shown on the video is legal, btw (though as I said, I know very little about stag hunting).

 

[Sandstone1]

That is disgusting. How is that a quick and humane end to a life?
Pro hunters... How can you defend that?
How many people would give up eating meat if thats how your Sunday lunch had to be killed?
I sometimes hate humans.

 

[skinnydipper]

And equally I cannot see why the pro hunt brigade do not see the difference between being seen to ‘apparently’ relish and enjoy the chase and killing of a frightened wild animal and the eating of well reared and humanely despatched farm animals.

The hunters are seen to be enjoying the fear they create in their prey. Now, as a former fox hunter, I do not think that this is largely true, but blood lust is what the public sees and believes, and why not?

Btw I thoroughly agree about the mass production of broiler chicken, which is grim from start to finish.

Have a look at this, filmed on Oct 7 2020 and reported in The Times. Now, I know slightly less than b00ger all about stag hunting, but nothing will persuade me that this was a humane end for an injured stag. It had been apparently been pre identified as needing to be euthanised as it was injured. So the most humane end for this seriously injured animal was to single it out, persue it with whooping riders who were cracking their whips at it so that it could eventually be cornered and then shot by a marksman?

I don’t think so, though doubtless someone will pop up and say that the hunt derived no pleasure from this, necessary job and all that.

I believe that all that is shown on the video is legal, btw (though as I said, I know very little about stag hunting).

What horrible people. How can there be any justification for that sort of behaviour.

 

[minesadouble]

I also know bog all about Stag hunting but that pic looks indefensible to me.

Sadly there aren't many people ike yourself who only eat ethically sourced meat. I have no time for people with double standards.

Hunting is one area where I think it's almost impossible for the two sides to understand another's point of view unfortunately.

 

[Clodagh]

I have stag hunted in the dim and distant past and will say it wasn’t for me, although the venery was impressive. The incident above was awful and was condemned by the hunting fraternity.

 

[Clodagh]

That is disgusting. How is that a quick and humane end to a life?
Pro hunters... How can you defend that?
How many people would give up eating meat if thats how your Sunday lunch had to be killed?
I sometimes hate humans.

That incident is deplorable but your Sunday lunch doesn’t always have a great time in the slaughterhouse. Some people do awful things, most people don’t.

 

[ycbm]

I will never understand the argument that its acceptable to hunt/shoot to eat but not for sport.
.

That's an easy one.

It is possible to have a lot of fun riding cross country behind hounds without killing anything.

It is not currently possible to eat meat without killing an animal, and humans are designed to be omnivores.

 

[minesadouble]

That's an easy one.

It is possible to have a lot of fun riding cross country behind hounds without killing anything.

It is not currently possible to eat meat without killing an animal, and humans are designed to be omnivores.

But its also perfectly possible to eat a healthy balanced diet without killing animals is it not?

 

[Tiddlypom]

The incident above was awful and was condemned by the hunting fraternity.

Was it condemned? I didn’t read that anywhere, though maybe I was looking in the wrong places.

I looked at that video and presumed that’s how injured stags are dealt with. The DSSH are a major player, so you’d think that they would play it by the book.

 

[minesadouble]

That is disgusting. How is that a quick and humane end to a life?
Pro hunters... How can you defend that?
How many people would give up eating meat if thats how your Sunday lunch had to be killed?
I sometimes hate humans.

I feel the main thing to draw from this comparison is that the Stag in the image, in all probability, had a free and happy life until that day. Your Sunday lunch may not have had the same privilege.

I'm not defending the incident in any way because it looks nothing other than thoroughly deplorable.
But those who are up in arms about hunting/shooting/fishing then happily pop off to the supermarket to buy their halal killed lamb or gassed pig need to look at their own habits before condeming field sports.

 

[ycbm]

But its also perfectly possible to eat a healthy balanced diet without killing animals is it not?

But if you want to eat meat like the omnivore you were born, as the majority of people do, there is no alternative.

There is an alternative to chasing and killing live animals to find enjoyment riding across country.

 

[ycbm]

And equally I cannot see why the pro hunt brigade do not see the difference between being seen to ‘apparently’ relish and enjoy the chase and killing of a frightened wild animal and the eating of well reared and humanely despatched farm animals.

This is a mystery to me as well.

 

[minesadouble]

Were we not also born hunters? Yet very few of us hunt now ?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, I can't see myself ever not eating meat, and if I ever do a meat free day I do struggle to meet my protein goal though I'm reliably informed it is possible.

I do, however, only eat locally produced, humanely reared meat.

 

[ester]

You lose money if your stock is stressed pre-slaughter.
you don't if you are hunting.

 

[minesadouble]

You lose money if your stock is stressed pre-slaughter.
you don't if you are hunting.

How do you lose money for stressed animals?

We farm a 600 strong suckler herd and our fat cattle are sold live at auction, along with the vast majority of UK produced beef cattle.

We find out what percentage they kill out at after slaughter, stress doesn't come into the equation at all.

 

[Clodagh]

Was it condemned? I didn’t read that anywhere, though maybe I was looking in the wrong places.

I looked at that video and presumed that’s how injured stags are dealt with. The DSSH are a major player, so you’d think that they would play it by the book.

As it is a pointless exercise I don't do any social media about hunting, especially as I am not involved any more. So it was condemned verbally amongst people I spoke with, including hunt masters and the like.

 

[ester]

You might not but someone down the line might well do.

Stressed meat has altered biochemistry/meat quality and a much shorter shelf life. (PSE or DFD meat)

 

[Tiddlypom]

The Times report on the injured stag hunt from Oct ‘20 did contain a response from the Countryside Alliance. No condemnation of the incident from the CA, though, just a defence that it was to ‘minimise the suffering to the stag’ .

When presented with the video by The Times, the Countryside Alliance said that the hunt was operating within the law after locating a stag “that displayed obvious signs of injury and required immediate euthanasia”.

When asked why an injured animal would need to be chased for it to be euthanised, they said: “The stag was stopped from running into cover and was shot by a licensed marksman.”

“Members of the hunt attempted to facilitate this as soon as possible to minimise the suffering to the stag.

The Times report is linked below, but is behind a paywall. I’m a subscriber, which is how I first read about this incident.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...pursuing-injured-stag-across-exmoor-jdqgxngqv

 

[minesadouble]

You might not but someone down the line might well do.

Stressed meat has altered biochemistry/meat quality and a much shorter shelf life. (PSE or DFD meat)

I'm aware of this, however this does not impact on the payment received for the animal.

 

[Steerpike]

I'm kind of speechless when I watched that video, if I did write what I thought I would be banned.

 

[Sandstone1]

That incident is deplorable but your Sunday lunch doesn’t always have a great time in the slaughterhouse. Some people do awful things, most people don’t.

My own Sunday lunch does not go near a slaughterhouse as I dont eat meat and havent for years. I was speaking generally. I agree slaughter houses are not great either but I hope not as bad as stag hunting.

 

[ycbm]

I'm kind of speechless when I watched that video, if I did write what I thought I would be banned.

Don't Google hunting the carted stag then. Yup, in Ireland they really did load a stag into a trailer and drive it somewhere so they could let it out and chase it.

I think/hope that's now been stopped but I'm not sure.
.

 

[skinnydipper]

Don't Google hunting the carted stag then. Yup, in Ireland they really did load a stag into a trailer and drive it somewhere so they could let it out and chase it.

I think/hope that's now been stopped but I'm not sure.
.

Oh, God. What is the matter with people?

Who wakes up and thinks "Beautiful morning, what can I kill today?"

 

[ester]

I'm aware of this, however this does not impact on the payment received for the animal.

I didn't say that it did, it was a general 'you' as in the supply chain not you personally.

 

[Steerpike]

Ugh sometimes I despair of the human race.

 

[Sandstone1]

I feel the main thing to draw from this comparison is that the Stag in the image, in all probability, had a free and happy life until that day. Your Sunday lunch may not have had the same privilege.

I'm not defending the incident in any way because it looks nothing other than thoroughly deplorable.
But those who are up in arms about hunting/shooting/fishing then happily pop off to the supermarket to buy their halal killed lamb or gassed pig need to look at their own habits before condeming field sports.

I have not eaten meat for about 40 years. I was speaking generally about Sunday lunch.

 

[minesadouble]

I have not eaten meat for about 40 years. I was speaking generally about Sunday lunch.

I kind of guessed that, I was replying generically re the Sunday lunch too.

 

[Clodagh]

Oh, God. What is the matter with people?

Who wakes up and thinks "Beautiful morning, what can I kill today?"

They don’t kill the carted stag (no idea if it still is a thing) once bought to bay it goes home on the trailer.

 

[Miss_Millie]

Were we not also born hunters? Yet very few of us hunt now ?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, I can't see myself ever not eating meat, and if I ever do a meat free day I do struggle to meet my protein goal though I'm reliably informed it is possible.

I do, however, only eat locally produced, humanely reared meat.

I think the 'born as hunters' is a silly comparison tbh.

The only hunters I have respect for are indiginous peoples - their entire way of living is about treading as lightly as possible on the earth. They hunt to survive and have complete respect for the landscape and the animals they kill for sustenance. They live outside of the capitalist, consumer-driven world that the rest of us live in.

Those who hunt fox and stag on the other hand, also drive around is their gass-guzzling 4x4s, tear up the landscape, and going by the video above, couldn't give an eff whether or not the animal is distressed, in pain, suffering. Then probably go home to their posh houses and have champagne in the bath!

When it comes to meat eaters being hypocrites/having double standards, that is fair enough to say, but there is some cognative dissonance at play there. If most people had to kill an animal before they ate it, they probably wouldn't do it, because most people love animals and have empathy for them.

Which is why it is alarming and disturbing when you see hunters getting a THRILL out of seeing an animal in fear, being torn to shreds. Surely that type of person would also beat their wife and hit their kids?

It grosses me out on so many levels.