Hunting is in a spot of bother

[ycbm]

LOL. Swap the sentence around and you've got it right. The peat moors are managed carefully to preserve grouse shooting.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled thread.

I live on the moorline of a beautiful heather moor. Some parts are used to raise birds, some parts aren't. The parts that aren't are wonderful natural moorland. The parts that are used for the birds are an ugly man-made patchwork of shaved rectangles cut to allow the birds to eat more.

Visually, it's a mess. When I think of what's going to happen to those thousands of birds later in the year I dislike it even more.
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[Indy]

Like I said previously, monikers given may be different but the gentleman I know accompanies the hunt and is known as the sab monitor. He watches what the sabs are doing and monitors activity, wrong doing etc.

I'm quite sure it's not an official job title as he's a volunteer but he's called and known as the sab monitor.

I think they're most likely hunt support

 

[Apizz2019]

I think they're most likely hunt support

Yes, he is supporting the hunt.
Confusing who is called what though!

 

[Wishfilly]

I meant views on hunting, not condoning breaking the law. I'm on the fence, neither pro or anti, but don't condone breaking the law in any way, shape or form.

From my understanding the sab monitors are with the hunt, making sure the sabs don't cross the line and the sabs aim is to stop the hunt killing foxes.

Ah, I see. So, not exactly an unbiased opinion when it comes to sabs?

Pretty sure some sabs would call illegal hunts organised animal cruelty.

I don't condone the way some sabs behave, but I can understand getting increasingly frustrated with illegal activity when nothing is being done about it.

 

[Apizz2019]

Ah, I see. So, not exactly an unbiased opinion when it comes to sabs?

Pretty sure some sabs would call illegal hunts organised animal cruelty.

I don't condone the way some sabs behave, but I can understand getting increasingly frustrated with illegal activity when nothing is being done about it.

I'm absolutely unbiased!

Regardless of being on the fence, I'm absolutely against any hunt, hunt supporters or sabs breaking the law!

Not one is above the other, regardless of argument for or against.

I merely stated that I know somebody who is with a hunt and monitors sabs activity.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I need to post a corrective update re sab monitors.

Looking back, some pro hunt commentators do indeed lump sabs and monitors together, but they call them sabs/monitors, or monitors/sabs.

So the presence (or absence) of a hyphen may well be of interest and relevance in describing who is who .

 

[Apizz2019]

I need to post a corrective update re sab monitors.

Looking back, some pro hunt commentators do indeed lump sabs and monitors together, but they call them sabs/monitors, or monitors/sabs.

So the presence (or absence) of a hyphen may well be of interest and relevance in describing who is who .

That's my bad I think, I've caused the confusion.

The chap I know is a sab monitor for the hunt - so is a hunt monitor who watches the sabs.

What do I call him? ??

 

[Caol Ila]

I live on the moorline of a beautiful heather moor. Some parts are used to raise birds, some parts aren't. The parts that aren't are wonderful natural moorland. The parts that are used for the birds are an ugly man-made patchwork of shaved rectangles cut to allow the birds to eat more.

Visually, it's a mess. When I think of what's going to happen to those thousands of birds later in the year I dislike it even more.
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Aye, there's a lot of upland in Scotland that's managed for grouse shooting. Don't quite get how Cairngorms National Park gets to be a national park when large swathes of it are grouse moors that are kept as grouse monocultures, but what do I know? National parks in the UK are an odd entity, quite different from national parks elsewhere in the world. When you're on heavily managed grouse moors, all you see are grouse, whereas areas managed for conservation have far more biodiversity of flora and fauna.

 

[Tiddlypom]

The case against Mark Hankinson is now due to be heard on March 9 at Westminster Magistrates Court.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1365325382585643008

 

[Wishfilly]

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/pet-cat-huntsman-cornwall-video-5081648

Not sure when this is from, but it's less than edifying from the hunt.

I'm interested that the police are investigating, as I always thought cats had no/very little legal status. Regardless it's very poor of the hunt to allow their hounds into a private garden and to kill someone's pet, and then to throw said pet over the garden wall is very callous.

 

[palo1]

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/pet-cat-huntsman-cornwall-video-5081648

Not sure when this is from, but it's less than edifying from the hunt.

I'm interested that the police are investigating, as I always thought cats had no/very little legal status. Regardless it's very poor of the hunt to allow their hounds into a private garden and to kill someone's pet, and then to throw said pet over the garden wall is very callous.

It is dire. Whoever was 'in charge' of those hounds clearly wasnt Not to mention trying to get rid of the cat - he absolutely should have knocked on the nearerst house door and faced the owner.

 

[Rumtytum]

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/pet-cat-huntsman-cornwall-video-5081648

Not sure when this is from, but it's less than edifying from the hunt.


I'm interested that the police are investigating, as I always thought cats had no/very little legal status. Regardless it's very poor of the hunt to allow their hounds into a private garden and to kill someone's pet, and then to throw said pet over the garden wall is very callous.

Caught on camera the huntsman is going to find it tricky to dodge this one.

 

[Wishfilly]

It is dire. Whoever was 'in charge' of those hounds clearly wasnt

I'm not 100% sure, but I think it is the same local hunt who let their hounds run out onto a busy A road this autumn. I honestly think sadly one or more of those hounds will end up dead because the hunt is not properly in control of them around roads, and worse they may cause a serious accident.

 

[Wishfilly]

Caught on camera the huntsman is going to find it tricky to dodge this one.

Not to defend him at all, but I'm not sure a crime has been committed as such? My understanding that a dog under your control killing a cat is unfortunately not a crime in UK law. If people felt threatened by the hounds then it might come under the dangerous dogs act? Although the police are apparently investigating something so if there is a crime, I agree he will find it hard to dodge.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Also maybe the cat was not dead when he threw her over the fence, maybe she could have been saved.


Yet another p1ss poor show of hound control. All hounds that took part in the attack must be removed from the pack immediately.


Exercising a group of off lead dogs in a residential steeet with no control .

 

[BeckyFlowers]

Awful, poor Mini. Disgusting behaviour from the hunt.

 

[Tiddlypom]

The hunt has been ID’d by antis as the Western Hunt.

 

[Wishfilly]

The hunt has been ID’d by antis as the Western Hunt.

That's who I suspected also, and were the ones with out of control hounds on an A-road. Locally, they have a bit of a reputation for having poor control of their hounds. There's a bit more I'd like to say but I'm not sure if it's fair as it's just hearsay.

 

[Sandstone1]

Where are all the pro hunters to defend this then?

 

[ycbm]

Not to defend him at all, but I'm not sure a crime has been committed as such? My understanding that a dog under your control killing a cat is unfortunately not a crime in UK law. If people felt threatened by the hounds then it might come under the dangerous dogs act? Although the police are apparently investigating something so if there is a crime, I agree he will find it hard to dodge.

It's probably criminal damage of someone else's "property" if it can be proven the hounds were not under control. It's a piddling charge for killing someone's pet, but at least it's a charge.

 

[Wishfilly]

It's probably criminal damage of someone else's "property" if it can be proven the hounds were not under control. It's a piddling charge for killing someone's pet, but at least it's a charge.

Oh, interesting. I hope they are able to get him on that.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Where are all the pro hunters to defend this then?

They won’t defend it, because it is indefensible.

There will be the usual ‘most unfortunate‘ mumble mumble ‘hounds are so well trained‘ mumble mumble ‘very rare type of incident’ mumble mumble pretences that this is unusual. Except, as we know, nowadays it keeps happening.

It‘s not long (December) since the High Peak Hunt killed another pet cat when on hound exercise.

This poor hound control never used to happen. What on earth are they teaching new hunt staff when training them? Best concentrate on how to control a pack of hounds rather than on how to create a smokescreen.

And now another pet cat killing incident - the 2 year old cat being on her owner’s property in Bakewell. Hounds broke into the owner’s yard when on hound exercise, dragged the cat out from under a car where she had run to hide, and killed her.

The High Peak Hunt again, where almost the whole pack recently rioted onto a calf and chased that calf across several fields.

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/hounds-riot-onto-calf.797034/

First rioting onto livestock, now domestic pets. What the freeking heck is going on? Time to disband, I think. The High Peak are not denying the incident.

The hunt has been in contact with the cat owner and apologised unreservedly for the distress this has caused.

RIP Spider

Spoiler

View attachment 62244

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...cBhA8KX4rNq0ya1ewLxxNUnq7L1llrrAzHlm3CJqVwoNM

 

[Tiddlypom]

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/western-hunt-statement-pet-cat-5082489

Today, March 7, Western Hunt has issued a statement to address the events of yesterday afternoon.

A spokesperson from the Western Hunt, said: “The Hunt is aware of events that took place on Saturday, 6th March, while the hounds were being exercised in an area where they are taken routinely, without incident, by officials of the hunt.

The hunt has been in contact with the cat owner to apologise unreservedly for the distress this has caused and is also helping the police with their enquiries.

"Incidents of this nature involving hounds are incredibly rare due to the professionalism with which the hounds are managed, however the hunt has taken this matter very seriously and is reviewing their procedures to prevent any reoccurrence.”

Devon and Cornwall Police said: "No arrests have been made but enquiries are ongoing"

 

[suestowford]

I know that hunts would say they are hounds not dogs but maybe this law would apply here?
https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public

 

[ycbm]

I know that hunts would say they are hounds not dogs but maybe this law would apply here?
https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public

Hounds are dogs and I think that law will apply as long as hunts do not have an exemption.
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[Tiddlypom]

From the Hunting Leaks website, WH hounds seem to have a cat killing habit. This is just not good enough, is it .

Yesterday we heard of the distressing news that a companion cat had been killed by the Western Hunt, a quick google and we quickly learnt that they have a long history of attacking cats.
In 1995 a 12 year old called “Tikkidew” was killed in their own rear garden.
2009 a 15 year old cat called “Molly” was killed, like Tikkidew, she was in her own back garden.
2017 and the Western Hunt hounds are again trespassing and attacking cats, this time the cat survived, but with part of their face missing.
2021 “Mini” is killed by the hounds and the huntsman throws her corpse over a neighbours fence.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Absolute scum how they're ripping up people's pet cats, hope they're banned, I'd want to rip them up in the same way if they did that to my cat.

Fortunately I have indoor cats and aren't in the path of any of them, but why should people have to fear for their cat's safety, then have to deal with the distress of seeing their much loved cat/ pet (as I'd imagine they'd go for small dogs too) being ripped apart/ killed in what should be the safety of their own home. What is the purpose of this hunt, why aren't they being banned when this keeps happening?

Can the owners not pursue them for costs?

Makes you wonder if they're using cats to make the hounds more aggressive given their keenness to go for them....

 

[palo1]

This incident is grim and should never have happened. In the interest of balance though, dog attacks on cats, other dogs, sheep and horses are happening increasingly regularly. It is NOT just hunts that are unable to effectively 'manage' their animals though it is definately something that needs addressing. As is the number of cats which predate on songbirds. It isn't acceptable; dogs and hounds should be controlled or removed from those who can't control them. Cats should be contained enough or have some form of mitigation against the kind of killing of songbirds that is rarely even acknowledged.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

WTAF.

Killing the cat was wrong, period. If you're going to exercise your hounds in a residential area, you better damn well have control over them. It's not a one off either.

You don't just toss it over the fence! You ring the doorbell and own up to it and profusely apologize and accept any and all consequence to your actions.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

This incident is grim and should never have happened. In the interest of balance though, dog attacks on cats, other dogs, sheep and horses are happening increasingly regularly. It is NOT just hunts that are unable to effectively 'manage' their animals though it is definately something that needs addressing. As is the number of cats which predate on songbirds. It isn't acceptable; dogs and hounds should be controlled or removed from those who can't control them. Cats should be contained enough or have some form of mitigation against the kind of killing of songbirds that is rarely even acknowledged.

Everyone knows that it is not just hunts. However, a certain level of professionalism is expected from hunts. As I mentioned previously, you don't just toss the cat over the fence. Clearly fox hunting already has "image problems" and this did not help with the matter.

As for cats and songbirds...Do you have proof that this significantly damages and impacts the song bird population? I'm not sure about this, and I keep my cat indoors anyway. But if it is a significant issue, then I can understand, but I'm just ignorant on the matter. Is there also an argument about cats and the local rodent population?

Idk, I'm still struggling to see what purpose fox hunting in this style serves nowadays...aside from fun and tradition. Which is fine, if it weren't for the damages and behaviors that seem to be more than "one offs"