Hunting is in a spot of bother

[ycbm]

Hunts are indeed under pressure, but this in no way makes it acceptable for them to rock up without pre warning local horse owners. Noone wants what happened to the lovely Barney to happen to any other horse. Hunting is a minority sport that has to fit in with country life, not barrel on upsetting everyone.

As to logistics - it can be done. You need a good network of trusted volunteers who get to know all the locals who wish to have a meet card and a back up text when the hunt are coming. We had such a gem here, and she did sterling work. But she eventually got peed off by certain masters who didn't keep her in the loop, so she packed it in.

Quote from a master as said to me in conversation after yet another unexpected appearance 'I can't be expected to let everyone with an acre and a pony know that we are coming' ?. Helpful, eh? If you are unwilling to put the graft in, don't take on a mastership.

Well, actually everyone with an acre and a pony who wishes to be told when the hunt are coming absolutely should be told. You just need a decent system of disseminating out the information.

After meet cards were withdrawn here (though they have now been reinstated) , a hunt follower has told me how landowners who used to get them but now didn't were coming out to shout at the hunt as they came by without warning upsetting their turned out horses. 'Why didn't you tell us that you were coming?' they shouted. Said hunt follower thought that it was a big mistake to stop notifying horse owners - it was p1ssing off a load of people who previously had no issue with the hunt.

Have they not heard of email?
.

 

[paddy555]

. As to hunts contacting everyone, it's unlikely that could happen, firstly due to logistics and secondly due to those who wish to use that information for nefarious means.
It sounds as though you don't want anybody near your boundaries.
.

the hunts don't need to contact everyone. A simple public notice in the local press etc would do fine. Sorry, I forgot, they don't want people to know their whereabouts.
No problem with them near my boundaries more of a problem "inside" my boundaries.

 

[Fred66]

…

 

[Sandstone1]

They will not tell people where and when they are meeting because a lot of them are fox hunting.
The pro hunters on this thread may well be legally trail hunting and have nothing to hide but sadly that is not true for a lot of hunts that are illegally fox hunting.
My local hunt is one hundred per cent fox hunting.
If challenged they say a kill was a accident, they have accidents every week!
Maybe the hunters here are telling the truth and their hunts are following the law but this does not mean that other hunts are doing so.
Sabs will get the blame for many incidents and yes some sabs are not perfect but because of the actions of some hunts you are all being tarred with the same brush and until you all realise this and do something to stop illegal hunting then trail hunting is at risk from being banned too.
My local hunt for example, hunts next to and along main roads.
They have been fined for trespassing on a railway line.
They hunt well in to the dark causing a real hazard for other road users.
They do not inform other horse owners when they will be in the area.
They have recently killed a deer.
They recently killed a fox at a childrens meet.
They and their foot followers cause a lot of disruption on local roads.
These are not isolated incidents, they happen pretty much every time the hunt is out.
The pro hunters here will spout lots of stuff saying the opposite, blaming sabs, saying their hunt does not hunt foxes, quoting endless reports etc etc.
The truth is illegal fox hunting IS going on.

 

[Gallop_Away]

We primarily use our landowners to notify locals. Afterall who knows the area and their neighbours better? Our masters also do their bit and between them it seems they get around everyone.
We do have a meet card which did used to be public on the hunts Facebook page. However due to sab disruption it has been withdrawn from social media and is now only available via contacting the hunt secretary and masters directly.

 

[Koweyka]

We don’t need a meet card to find a hunt, it’s doing a disservice to local people not to warn them

They will not tell people where and when they are meeting because a lot of them are fox hunting.
The pro hunters on this thread may well be legally trail hunting and have nothing to hide but sadly that is not true for a lot of hunts that are illegally fox hunting.
My local hunt is one hundred per cent fox hunting.
If challenged they say a kill was a accident, they have accidents every week!
Maybe the hunters here are telling the truth and their hunts are following the law but this does not mean that other hunts are doing so.
Sabs will get the blame for many incidents and yes some sabs are not perfect but because of the actions of some hunts you are all being tarred with the same brush and until you all realise this and do something to stop illegal hunting then trail hunting is at risk from being banned too.
My local hunt for example, hunts next to and along main roads.
They have been fined for trespassing on a railway line.
They hunt well in to the dark causing a real hazard for other road users.
They do not inform other horse owners when they will be in the area.
They have recently killed a deer.
They recently killed a fox at a childrens meet.
They and their foot followers cause a lot of disruption on local roads.
These are not isolated incidents, they happen pretty much every time the hunt is out.
The pro hunters here will spout lots of stuff saying the opposite, blaming sabs, saying their hunt does not hunt foxes, quoting endless reports etc etc.
The truth is illegal fox hunting IS going on.

I know your hunt, I don’t know how they are even allowed to leave the kennels, thank god for the Sabs that document all they do, hopefully they will go the same way as the Atherstone and fold. Probably the most revolting hunt in the country.

I don’t understand all the secrecy about meet cards, it really does a disservice to the local landowners and not giving locals a chance to protect their horses and pets ….wow when you think that people have to do that so some people can go out for a jolly with a pack of dogs that have the potential to cause great harm.

We don’t need a meet card if we want to find a hunt there a trillion ways to do it, we have a list of people we contact and warn when the hunt is in their area, shocking that the antis do it and not the people causing the mayhem.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Have they not heard of email?
.

Or a brief text - there is no need for a personal visit or a phone call to every horse owner, just a brief heads up.

This is the entirety of a text that I received one previous hunting day - it tells me all that I needed to know in order to get my horses in and generally prep for the hunt to be nearby. I don't need chapter and verse on the meet details.

'Hi, the hunt may be in your area on Wednesday between 11 and three, thank you.'

I always text straight back with a 'Thanks for letting me know'. As Koweyka says, the antis always find out where the hunt is anyway, it's us poor residents who are the last to find out if we haven't been pre warned.

 

[ycbm]

Or a brief text - there is no need for a personal visit or a phone call to every horse owner, just a brief heads up.

This is the entirety of a text that I received one previous hunting day - it tells me all that I needed to know in order to get my horses in and generally prep for the hunt to be nearby. I don't need chapter and verse on the meet details.

'Hi, the hunt may be in your area on Wednesday between 11 and three, thank you.'

I always text straight back with a 'Thanks for letting me know'. As Koweyka says, the antis always find out where the hunt is anyway, it's us poor residents who are the last to find out if we haven't been pre warned.

Yup, simple text and email lists will cover almost everyone. One text, one email. Phone call to the luddites.

 

[Gallop_Away]

We don’t need a meet card to find a hunt, it’s doing a disservice to local people not to warn them


I know your hunt, I don’t know how they are even allowed to leave the kennels, thank god for the Sabs that document all they do, hopefully they will go the same way as the Atherstone and fold. Probably the most revolting hunt in the country.

I don’t understand all the secrecy about meet cards, it really does a disservice to the local landowners and not giving locals a chance to protect their horses and pets ….wow when you think that people have to do that so some people can go out for a jolly with a pack of dogs that have the potential to cause great harm.

We don’t need a meet card if we want to find a hunt there a trillion ways to do it, we have a list of people we contact and warn when the hunt is in their area, shocking that the antis do it and not the people causing the mayhem.

Well the blame solely lies at the feet of sabs for our meet cards no longer being available online. They're constant harassment and tresspass towards not only the hunt but also landowners themselves, the decision was made about 3 years ago to withdraw the meet list from social media.
They can be emailed via out hunt staff but they will vet who you are when you call to ask.
Its not fool proof sabs still find us but I admit it did make a difference to the amount of meets sabs have disrupted since.

 

[Koweyka]

Yes yes yes, blame the Sabs for everything blah blah blah

If hunts weren’t continually doing this, hunting wouldn’t have a sab problem.

https://fb.watch/aHzU40Tkwp/

 

[ycbm]

Well the blame solely lies at the feet of sabs for our meet cards no longer being available online.

IMO, this blindness to reality is what will cause hunting to be lost altogether.


.

 

[paddy555]

Well the blame solely lies at the feet of sabs for our meet cards no longer being available online. They're constant harassment and tresspass towards not only the hunt but also landowners themselves, the decision was made about 3 years ago to withdraw the meet list from social media.
They can be emailed via out hunt staff but they will vet who you are when you call to ask.
Its not fool proof sabs still find us but I admit it did make a difference to the amount of meets sabs have disrupted since.

so you blame the sabs for not issuing meet cards but then you take it out on the rest of the population ie we won't tell you where we are so hard luck if your animals get hurt.

The hunt "vet" who you are. So if you don't pass their vetting you are likely to have your animals disrupted.

There are a lot of things people have problems with concerning the hunt. Straying hounds, lack of meet info, killing domestic pets, cruelty to foxes and possibly more.
Top of the list however for many people who lump fox hunting and trail hunting in together is simply arrogance.
Your post is a classic example. We may tell you or if we consider you unworthy we won't.



Why should landowners have to notify locals? what if they are unable to for some reason. It is up to the hunt to take responsibility to make sure everyone knows and can take action if required.

If they are trail hunting that should not be an onerous task. They are following a trail, they know where the trail is and only so many animal owners along the way.

 

[YorksG]

If we have a large ride out, from our riding club, should we tell everyone whose property we ride alongside?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Just let the law take care of the Sabs? Just like the law is supposed to take care of illegal hunting and/or illegal acts commited by hunts.

Right?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

If we have a large ride out, from our riding club, should we tell everyone whose property we ride alongside?

That's not the same though. I get your point that you're trying to make, but a large ride out from the riding club is not the same as a hunt.

 

[YorksG]

That's not the same though. I get your point that you're trying to make, but a large ride out from the riding club is not the same as a hunt.

But if it isn't entering your property, the hunt and it's followers have no obligation to tell you that they will be in the area, I'm really quite amazed that people believe that they have a right to know what other people intend to do on land that the person complaining, has no rights over.

 

[meleeka]

If we have a large ride out, from our riding club, should we tell everyone whose property we ride alongside?

I think if you were planning on galloping en mass past the field where their animals were kept it would be the decent thing to do, especially if you then had a pack of dogs which could potential stray into the field.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

But if it isn't entering your property, the hunt and it's followers have no obligation to tell you that they will be in the area, I'm really quite amazed that people believe that they have a right to know what other people intend to do on land that the person complaining, has no rights over.

The thing is though, unfortunately, hunts do enter property that they might not "intend" to/have gotten a reputation for doing so.

If the land directly borders livestock on another piece of land, it's a nice neighborly thing to do. It's no obligation, of course.

If a well behaved legal hunt said "hey, we're going to pass by your property, but not go on it, just a heads up we'll be around", I'd say thanks for the notification and would see myself as feeling positive toward the hunt. If they didn't notify me, I would think, would be nice to know when they're coming by, but whatever. So if hunting wants to clean up it's image and community relations, then it's not a bad idea to be as neighborly as possible. Of course you don't have to.

Yes, I know this may attract Sabs though.

 

[YorksG]

The thing is though, unfortunately, hunts do enter property that they might not "intend" to/have gotten a reputation for doing so.

If the land directly borders livestock on another piece of land, it's a nice neighborly thing to do. It's no obligation, of course.

If a well behaved legal hunt said "hey, we're going to pass by your property, but not go on it, just a heads up we'll be around", I'd say thanks for the notification and would see myself as feeling positive toward the hunt. If they didn't notify me, I would think, would be nice to know when they're coming by, but whatever. So if hunting wants to clean up it's image and community relations, then it's not a bad idea to be as neighborly as possible. Of course you don't have to.

Yes, I know this may attract Sabs though.

Would you be happy that the sabs knew the hunt were going to pass your land? I certainly wouldn't, as I do not want my, or others, animals disrupting by a bunch of vigilantes

 

[Gallop_Away]

so you blame the sabs for not issuing meet cards but then you take it out on the rest of the population ie we won't tell you where we are so hard luck if your animals get hurt.

The hunt "vet" who you are. So if you don't pass their vetting you are likely to have your animals disrupted.

There are a lot of things people have problems with concerning the hunt. Straying hounds, lack of meet info, killing domestic pets, cruelty to foxes and possibly more.
Top of the list however for many people who lump fox hunting and trail hunting in together is simply arrogance.
Your post is a classic example. We may tell you or if we consider you unworthy we won't.



Why should landowners have to notify locals? what if they are unable to for some reason. It is up to the hunt to take responsibility to make sure everyone knows and can take action if required.

If they are trail hunting that should not be an onerous task. They are following a trail, they know where the trail is and only so many animal owners along the way.

If you had bothered to read my previous posts you would see that we do tell locals when we are in the area. Our land owners are happy to communicate it to neighbours as do our masters. Local residents can also contact the hunt secretary directly and ask when we are in the area. Saying you have animals in the area would of course be a good enough reason.

IMO, this blindness to reality is what will cause hunting to be lost altogether.


.

It isn't blindness whatsoever. The disruption caused by sabs WAS the only reason our meet list was taken off our social media. I can't speak for all hunts but it was the only reason our hunt had to withdraw it as we are doing nothing wrong. Since then we have invited monitors to join us in the field as we have nothing to hide but they have declined. If you want to call it suspicious that we don't leave our meet list on Facebook be my guest but we are not going to leave ourselves open to more harassment and violence from sabs.

 

[Sandstone1]

Sabs would not be needed if hunts stuck to the law. Yes before you say it I know you will say your hunt trail hunts but sadly many do not. That is a fact. Whatever you say to the contrary illegal fox hunting is going on and without sabs it would go on un hindered. Why should it all be done in secret if nothing untoward is happening? Pretty sure sabs have enough to do without following legal trail hunting but the problem is in most cases thats not whats going on.
Sabs will get to know where and when you are hunting anyway so you may as we have the common courtesy to let other land owners and horse owners know to save the distress caused to other animals.

 

[paddy555]

But if it isn't entering your property, the hunt and it's followers have no obligation to tell you that they will be in the area, I'm really quite amazed that people believe that they have a right to know what other people intend to do on land that the person complaining, has no rights over.

do you let your riders dogs climb over the fences and stray onto the neighbouring fields with animals in them? if so then I believe they do have a right to know.
The land over which the person has no rights is very often the public highway and everyone has the same rights.

 

[Gallop_Away]

Sabs would not be needed if hunts stuck to the law. Yes before you say it I know you will say your hunt trail hunts but sadly many do not. That is a fact. Whatever you say to the contrary illegal fox hunting is going on and without sabs it would go on un hindered. Why should it all be done in secret if nothing untoward is happening? Pretty sure sabs have enough to do without following legal trail hunting but the problem is in most cases thats not whats going on.
Sabs will get to know where and when you are hunting anyway so you may as we have the common courtesy to let other land owners and horse owners know to save the distress caused to other animals.

Equally why are sabs still harassing our hunt when there isn't anything illegal going on? Because that is precisely what is happening constantly.
The fact is the only reason we withdrew our meet cards was because of sabs. If all they did was peacefully monitor we would have no reason not to publish our meet list on social media.
Yes sabs do still find us sadly but its made their lives a lot harder it would seem as we are not so frequently visited by them as we were before.
We've also had no incidents where anyone has been unaware that we are in the area and animals have been injured. So it would seem our system is working.

 

[paddy555]

Would you be happy that the sabs knew the hunt were going to pass your land? I certainly wouldn't, as I do not want my, or others, animals disrupting by a bunch of vigilantes

but's its OK for the hunt to disrupt my animals?

 

[Sandstone1]

Equally why are sabs still harassing our hunt when there isn't anything illegal going on? Because that is precisely what is happening constantly.
The fact is the only reason we withdrew our meet cards was because of sabs. If all they did was peacefully monitor we would have no reason not to publish our meet list on social media.
Yes sabs do still find us sadly but its made their lives a lot harder it would seem as we are not so frequently visited by them as we were before.
We've also had no incidents where anyone has been unaware that we are in the area and animals have been injured. So it would seem our system is working.

If you are hunting legally than you have nothing to worry about surely?

 

[YorksG]

The sabs were targeting hunts long before the hunting act, with violence and intimidation. If someone was threatening you, would you tell them where to find you?

 

[Gallop_Away]

If you are hunting legally than you have nothing to worry about surely?

You would think not but yet we are harassed by them all the same

 

[Sandstone1]

You would think not but yet we are harassed by them all the same

Maybe they do not believe you? Going by my local hunt they have every reason not to.

 

[paddy555]

Maybe they do not believe you? .

fair point. I asked which hunt this was but not forthcoming.

 

[Sandstone1]

Maybe you should have more sympathy for the horses and livestock you disrupt if you feel "harassed" by sabs, think how they feel to be minding their own business when a field of riders and hounds come galloping past them.
Think how people feel to have their fences cut and riders and hounds disrupting livestock and killing pets, how annoying it is to be held up on main roads by the hunt, to have to deal with sweat drenched horse upset by them. I could go on....