Hunting is in a spot of bother

[Gallop_Away]

I am not getting in to yet another pointless round of arguing as we will never agree on this matter but I will just say that a group of sabs had their tyres slashed today. Wonder who did that? Also there is still the case of the sab ran down on a public footpath by a group of riders. Not to mention the case of the terrier man stabbing a fox with a pitchfork and the woman filmed hitting her horse round the head. I could go on but I wont bother as you are so blind as to what goes on that there is simply no point...

Which I do not condone at all and is equally appalling....however it's not really relevant to what we are currently discussing

 

[Koweyka]

Well the Lamerton Hunt have killed a fox today and so have the South Shropshire Hunt, they have killed a fox and attacked a dog out being walked.

Thats your “trail hunting” that’s the lie and while you are out murdering wildlife so you can pursue your pathetic illegal hobby you will be sabbed and monitored until the trail hunt smokescreen is consigned to history. We will never ever stop.

 

[Koweyka]

Trail Hunting 2022

 

[Gallop_Away]

Well the Lamerton Hunt have killed a fox today and so have the South Shropshire Hunt, they have killed a fox and attacked a dog out being walked.

Thats your “trail hunting” that’s the lie and while you are out murdering wildlife so you can pursue your pathetic illegal hobby you will be sabbed and monitored until the trail hunt smokescreen is consigned to history. We will never ever stop.

Sorry perhaps I've missed something but who exactly is the "you" you are referring to here?

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

<snip>
so you can pursue your pathetic illegal hobby you will be sabbed and monitored until the trail hunt smokescreen is consigned to history. We will never ever stop.

Monitoring is fine, to saboteur is not. 'Sabs' cost me a lot of money a good number of years ago, the legal punishment didn't meet the crime.

Saboteur is a noun that is fairly new to the English language; it was first used in the early 1900s, and it refers to a person who deliberately destroys or obstructs something.

 

[Koweyka]

Sorry perhaps I've missed something but who exactly is the "you" you are referring to here?

Anyone whose head the cap fits.

 

[palo1]

Perhaps then think about the way you are haranguing? I find it is getting quite offensive, way way more than your usual nit picking.



This forum has very little traffic regarding this subject (apart from less than a dozen posters), can I suggest you point your energies towards those who are in the organisations? ?

There are clearly a few posters on this forum that get a particular kick out of haranguing others whilst failing utterly to engage in any of the discussion; I don't know why tbh as most people who are clearly supporting legal trail hunting on this thread really try to explain and discuss their viewpoint rather than just batter away with one idea and one narrative without trying to explore other experiences and ideas. It is massively frustrating and occasionally offensive! I have felt a bit targeted at times so I do appreciate other people giving their input too; I know there are other people who support trail hunting but can't face the 'tone' of some posters here on the forum. That is a shame but not unexpected and I really don't blame them one bit!! If this was a pub or other RL discussion I would have been out the door several years ago lol!!

 

[paddy555]

well Saturday afternoon is going to be great for my chaps. We are in the middle of a "pincer" attack. Shoot will be coming in on direction only a field away and the hunt coming from the other direction.

I know some people get lots of pleasure from all this killing but I am just fed up having to live with it.

 

[[153312]]

well Saturday afternoon is going to be great for my chaps. We are in the middle of a "pincer" attack. Shoot will be coming in on direction only a field away and the hunt coming from the other direction.

I know some people get lots of pleasure from all this killing but I am just fed up having to live with it.

really hope your animals will be ok paddy. we get it too in that way and it costs an awful lot in sedative for the horses and the dogs.

 

[Miss_Millie]

well Saturday afternoon is going to be great for my chaps. We are in the middle of a "pincer" attack. Shoot will be coming in on direction only a field away and the hunt coming from the other direction.

I know some people get lots of pleasure from all this killing but I am just fed up having to live with it.

That sounds very stressful Paddy, I hope that your animals will be okay

 

[paddy555]

That sounds very stressful Paddy, I hope that your animals will be okay

thanks. Only good news is there is only one more Saturday after this for the shoot.

 

[Tiddlypom]

It would be especially stressful if you have the double whammy of a shoot and a hunt nearby on the same day, and animals to care for during it all.

Don't shoots and hunts usually try and avoid each other?

Luckily we don't have any game bird shoots near enough to us to cause us bother.

 

[[153312]]

It would be especially stressful if you have the double whammy of a shoot and a hunt nearby on the same day, and animals to care for during it all.

Don't shoots and hunts usually try and avoid each other?

Luckily we don't have any game bird shoots near enough to us to cause us bother.

In my experience there is usually no coordination between the two. It may be different elsewhere but here they are run totally separately, although our 'local' hunt isn't actually very local and doesn't often come this far over - maybe only 2 or 3 times in a year.

 

[YorksG]

It would be especially stressful if you have the double whammy of a shoot and a hunt nearby on the same day, and animals to care for during it all.

Don't shoots and hunts usually try and avoid each other?

Luckily we don't have any game bird shoots near enough to us to cause us bother.

In much the same way as local cycle clubs don't Co ordinate with local riding clubs, given that the two pastimes have very few points of contact

 

[Fred66]

In my experience there is usually no coordination between the two. It may be different elsewhere but here they are run totally separately, although our 'local' hunt isn't actually very local and doesn't often come this far over - maybe only 2 or 3 times in a year.

Whilst round us the hunt is always made aware of shoot locations and timings to ensure trails are not laid into the line of fire and that the shoots are not disrupted. The last thing you want is a landowner withdrawing permission for disrupting their business.

 

[paddy555]

ours don't usually clash just seems to be this one. The hunt I can work out their route but the shoot doesn't seem to have any logic and we have no idea what time of the day they could appear or sometimes they appear twice or we wait all day and they then the firing starts near us when it is almost dark. Still at least this year they have stopped firing with the shot landing on our roofs or on me which is an improvement.
Only 2 more Saturdays of bird killing, can't wait for it to be over.

 

[stangs]

Only 2 more Saturdays of bird killing, can't wait for it to be over.

Neither can the birds

 

[Tiddlypom]

Whilst round us the hunt is always made aware of shoot locations and timings to ensure trails are not laid into the line of fire and that the shoots are not disrupted. The last thing you want is a landowner withdrawing permission for disrupting their business.

That sounds sensible - the two pastimes ought to liaise with each other or it could get messy.

Shooting is the sport that brings in the revenue so I imagine that it gets first dib of the dates.

 

[Fellewell]

Yes, I should have explained. No it's not acceptable of course but that's the problem with hunts advertising their whereabouts. For me a trail hunt is about watching hounds work. It's a marathon rather than a sprint unlike a drag hunt so beloved of the thrusters, where the scent is artificial but the hunt is shorter and for hounds it's more eyes than nose. Trail hunts are more nose to the ground but hounds know they're not following a live scent so when sabs turn up hours beforehand and put down scent dullers and false trails they're doing more harm than good and quite possibly facilitating a kill. The hunt trail layers know where they can go, the huntsman and whippers-in know where they should be but the hounds obviously don't. Fox scent is long lasting and very pungent and quarry based scent is always preferable to the hounds but like any other scent it is very susceptible to environmental conditions so my argument is give them all a fighting chance to stay legal and don't disrupt the hounds.

sorry FW that quote hasn't worked well.
there are 2 sides to it. Firstly whilst it is your right to legally trail hunt it is also the right of animal owners to keep their animals in their fields. It is up to the hunt to make sure they are not disrupting these animal owners with their activities so those animals eg Barney can graze in peace or be stabled to protect them. The hunt trail layers know where they are laying the trail. They know (or most certainly should know) where the animal owners and their animals are. There is no reason why the hunt cannot contact them either by phone or text to advise of the forthcoming activity. If the hunt are unwilling to do this then it says to those animal keepers that the hunt's day out is far more important than our animals are. That is wrong.

Secondly whilst I appreciate that hounds don't know the trail route that doesn't mean they should stray onto private land. Somehow or other the huntsman has a responsibility to prevent that from happening. I appreciate that if he is trying to hunt with sabs disrupting things then it may not be easy but it is no excuse. The argument is between the sabs and the hunt. The private landowner does not come into it. Just because the sabs are disrupting the hunt doesn't mean the hunt should then allow their hounds onto someone's fields.[/QUOTE]

Have you had a word with the hunt secretary? I'm sure you'll find a sympathetic ear, it might cost you a couple of quid for a meet card but worth it I'd say. Also shoot managers have a code of conduct to follow, you should inform them about your horses.

 

[paddy555]

sorry FW that quote hasn't worked well.
there are 2 sides to it. Firstly whilst it is your right to legally trail hunt it is also the right of animal owners to keep their animals in their fields. It is up to the hunt to make sure they are not disrupting these animal owners with their activities so those animals eg Barney can graze in peace or be stabled to protect them. The hunt trail layers know where they are laying the trail. They know (or most certainly should know) where the animal owners and their animals are. There is no reason why the hunt cannot contact them either by phone or text to advise of the forthcoming activity. If the hunt are unwilling to do this then it says to those animal keepers that the hunt's day out is far more important than our animals are. That is wrong.

Secondly whilst I appreciate that hounds don't know the trail route that doesn't mean they should stray onto private land. Somehow or other the huntsman has a responsibility to prevent that from happening. I appreciate that if he is trying to hunt with sabs disrupting things then it may not be easy but it is no excuse. The argument is between the sabs and the hunt. The private landowner does not come into it. Just because the sabs are disrupting the hunt doesn't mean the hunt should then allow their hounds onto someone's fields.

Have you had a word with the hunt secretary? I'm sure you'll find a sympathetic ear, it might cost you a couple of quid for a meet card but worth it I'd say. Also shoot managers have a code of conduct to follow, you should inform them about your horses.[/QUOTE]

the hunt don't have a meet card and the shoot are well aware I have horses however they have a right to shoot on their own land and I equally have a right to have my horses in the adjoining fields which are my land. Whilst I am aware which days they shoot I cannot keep the horses in because they are so close it is dangerous so they have to go out where they are safer and can run. Riding for us is out on shooting days as we don't know where they are. OH got caught in the middle of them on a public road. I went to rescue him when I saw what was going to happen. `I asked them to stop shooting till he got home. They stopped for 1 minute then resumed, the horse took off down a steep hill on the road and ran for home 1/4mile away.. OH is an excellent rider. Anyone else may have been on the ground.


In general you haven't addressed 2 more general points. First hunts not contacting animal keepers to advise they are going to be hunting close to their animals to give owners the chance to move them. If you have nothing to hide let people know. Secondly keeping their hounds from straying onto private land. .

 

[paddy555]

- the two pastimes ought to liaise with each other or it could get messy.

.

we can always be hopeful.

 

[Clodagh]

I don’t see that either hunts or shoots should not go near anyone with private land. We all like to do what we want with our land and who are we to tell our neighbours how they should spend their time?
I don’t think there should ever be trespass by hunts or shoots to private land.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I think that Paddy555 has had an issue with shot landing on her property? That is specifically mentioned in the Code of Good Shooting Practice as something that should not happen.

https://www.gwct.org.uk/media/768987/CodeGoodSHootingPractice.pdf

'Avoid birds and spent shot falling on to public places, roads and neighbouring property'

Spent shot, apart from potentially terrifying horses if it lands on them, can cause serious eye injuries to man and beast - my late Dad had to treat such injuries in humans.

 

[Clodagh]

I think that Paddy555 has had an issue with shot landing on her property? That is specifically mentioned in the Code of Good Shooting Practice as something that should not happen.

https://www.gwct.org.uk/media/768987/CodeGoodSHootingPractice.pdf

'Avoid birds and spent shot falling on to public places, roads and neighbouring property'

Spent shot, apart from potentially terrifying horses if it lands on them, can cause serious eye injuries to man and beast - my late Dad had to treat such injuries in humans.

Yes but I believe she spoke to the shoot and they stopped that.

 

[Tiddlypom]

There is (a lot) more in the Code of Good Shooting Practice. You'd hope it that was all common sense. What is it that they say about common sense - that it isn't common? Even if shooting takes place entirely on private land and with the full permission of the landowners, there are guidelines to be followed wrt others.

No shoot should be frightening horses being ridden past on a road or right of way.

• All involved in shooting must have regard for others and their safety at all times.

• The frequency of shooting must not give rise to unreasonable nuisance (particularly noise) to neighbours.

• Shoot managers and Guns must have special regard to the safety of riders and their horses. Noise from gunfire, beaters working in cover adjacent to bridleways or falling shot can alarm horses and endanger riders.

Shooting or beating should be paused to allow horses or other rights of way users to pass.

 

[paddy555]

Yes but I believe she spoke to the shoot and they stopped that.

yes we had a little "chat" about that and to give them their due they have stopped firing so shot lands on the roofs.

 

[paddy555]

There is (a lot) more in the Code of Good Shooting Practice. You'd hope it that was all common sense. What is it that they say about common sense - that it isn't common? Even if shooting takes place entirely on private land and with the full permission of the landowners, there are guidelines to be followed wrt others.

No shoot should be frightening horses being ridden past on a road or right of way.

• All involved in shooting must have regard for others and their safety at all times.

• The frequency of shooting must not give rise to unreasonable nuisance (particularly noise) to neighbours.

• Shoot managers and Guns must have special regard to the safety of riders and their horses. Noise from gunfire, beaters working in cover adjacent to bridleways or falling shot can alarm horses and endanger riders.

Shooting or beating should be paused to allow horses or other rights of way users to pass.

all of those are fine in a perfect world but in areas that are too small just impossible. Shooting needs a lot of space. There is no getting away from gunfire when it is in surrounding fields and of course people have the right to hold their shoot just a much a someone has the right to have horses.
When we asked the nearest person to the road to stop them firing so OH could get his horse past he did stop but he had no way of stopping the other guns who were all lined up across the field shooting down into the bottom of the field. We know him well, he wasn't being difficult he said he had no way of stopping them and nothing he could do.

The problem is there are too many shoots on small areas, too many bridlepaths and roads through and around that land and too many horses. They just don't mix.

 

[Fellewell]

well Saturday afternoon is going to be great for my chaps. We are in the middle of a "pincer" attack. Shoot will be coming in on direction only a field away and the hunt coming from the other direction.

I know some people get lots of pleasure from all this killing but I am just fed up having to live with it.

To answer you without reposting lots of text:
You clearly have a point of contact with the hunt so perhaps you can start a dialogue and I'm sure your concerns can be addressed. As to hunts contacting everyone, it's unlikely that could happen, firstly due to logistics and secondly due to those who wish to use that information for nefarious means.
It sounds as though you don't want anybody near your boundaries. I think lockdown has made everyone a bit more territorial which is understandable.
Hunts really are up against it with NT refusing licences and councils being lobbied into issuing bans on land that wasn't even used by hunts. You probably think this is ok but I don't and we are never going to agree.

 

[palo1]

Whilst round us the hunt is always made aware of shoot locations and timings to ensure trails are not laid into the line of fire and that the shoots are not disrupted. The last thing you want is a landowner withdrawing permission for disrupting their business.

There are clearly a few posters on this forum that get a particular kick out of haranguing others whilst failing utterly to engage in any of the discussion; I don't know why tbh as most people who are clearly supporting legal trail hunting on this thread really try to explain and discuss their viewpoint rather than just batter away with one idea and one narrative without trying to explore other experiences and ideas. It is massively frustrating and occasionally offensive! I have felt a bit targeted at times so I do appreciate other people giving their input too; I know there are other people who support trail hunting but can't face the 'tone' of some posters here on the forum. That is a shame but not unexpected and I really don't blame them one bit!! If this was a pub or other RL discussion I would have been out the door several years ago lol!!

FB brought this article to my attention today: it seems pertinent to the way that opinion and virtue signalling can impact on facts and science.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...fforts-scientists-warn-trophy-hunting-dispute

 

[Tiddlypom]

As to hunts contacting everyone, it's unlikely that could happen, firstly due to logistics and secondly due to those who wish to use that information for nefarious means.

Hunts really are up against it with NT refusing licences and councils being lobbied into issuing bans on land that wasn't even used by hunts. You probably think this is ok but I don't and we are never going to agree.

Hunts are indeed under pressure, but this in no way makes it acceptable for them to rock up without pre warning local horse owners. Noone wants what happened to the lovely Barney to happen to any other horse. Hunting is a minority sport that has to fit in with country life, not barrel on upsetting everyone.

As to logistics - it can be done. You need a good network of trusted volunteers who get to know all the locals who wish to have a meet card and a back up text when the hunt are coming. We had such a gem here, and she did sterling work. But she eventually got peed off by certain masters who didn't keep her in the loop, so she packed it in.

Quote from a master as said to me in conversation after yet another unexpected appearance 'I can't be expected to let everyone with an acre and a pony know that we are coming' ?. Helpful, eh? If you are unwilling to put the graft in, don't take on a mastership.

Well, actually everyone with an acre and a pony who wishes to be told when the hunt are coming absolutely should be told. You just need a decent system of disseminating out the information.

After meet cards were withdrawn here (though they have now been reinstated) , a hunt follower told me how landowners who used to get them, but now didn't, were coming out to shout at the hunt as they came by without warning upsetting their turned out horses. 'Why didn't you tell us that you were coming?' they shouted. Said hunt follower thought that it was a big mistake to stop notifying horse owners - it was p1ssing off a load of people who previously had no issue with the hunt.