Hunting is in a spot of bother

[YorksG]

There appears to be a conflation of passing and trespassing. Passing someone's property, at whatever pace, is entirely legal and acceptable. Crossing property without permission, either with or without dogs, is not acceptable. The two things are not the same and do not hold the same responsibility.

 

[Gallop_Away]

Maybe they do not believe you? Going by my local hunt they have every reason not to.

I will repeat again....we have invited them to monitor us on several occasions but that has been declined. They have no shred of proof that we are illegal hunting, and yet they would rather continue to hurl abuse at us.

fair point. I asked which hunt this was but not forthcoming.

And I explained my reasons why I did not want to post on a thread on a public forum and at least one poster admiting to being part of a sab group.

Maybe you should have more sympathy for the horses and livestock you disrupt if you feel "harassed" by sabs, think how they feel to be minding their own business when a field of riders and hounds come galloping past them.
Think how people feel to have their fences cut and riders and hounds disrupting livestock and killing pets, how annoying it is to be held up on main roads by the hunt, to have to deal with sweat drenched horse upset by them. I could go on....

I completely agree this behaviour is not on and why we do try and make every effort to tell people when we are in the area whilst still protecting ourselves from sabs.
We have not had any incidents or complaints from locals of any harm coming to any animals. Nor would we dream of cutting fences and going where we were not welcome.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Would you be happy that the sabs knew the hunt were going to pass your land? I certainly wouldn't, as I do not want my, or others, animals disrupting by a bunch of vigilantes

Ok, then. It's all about the Sabs. No, I wouldn't want that either.

I don't know what the solution is really, for BOTH hunting and the community.

It's also becoming a bit "can't help you if you can't help yourself" type deal, in some cases.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

There appears to be a conflation of passing and trespassing. Passing someone's property, at whatever pace, is entirely legal and acceptable. Crossing property without permission, either with or without dogs, is not acceptable. The two things are not the same and do not hold the same responsibility.

I think everyone here knows that.

It's just a courtesy to inform when passing by as a hunt. There's no need to be courteous. It is legal to pass by, that's not the crux of the matter here.

 

[paddy555]

There appears to be a conflation of passing and trespassing. Passing someone's property, at whatever pace, is entirely legal and acceptable. Crossing property without permission, either with or without dogs, is not acceptable. The two things are not the same and do not hold the same responsibility.

at long last you understand.

so let's take it a tiny step further having got this far.

those dogs climb over the bank and run across the field where they have no permission to be. In doing so they cause a horse, cow or anything else to charge around and either be at risk of injury or to get injured.
Sadly this is a pretty common occurrence.

so I, or Barney's owner, are now left with an injured animal.

That injury which could be either death or a horse having done a tendon or something which means it is off work for a long time could have been prevented.

It could have been prevented because the owner knew that if pack of dogs ran through their herd it was likely to happen.
They knew the best thing to do was to keep the horse in, move it or take some other action.

The tiny bit of info they didn't know, because someone didn't have the courtesy to tell them, was that this could happen on that particular day because of the hunt which was following it's trail was going past.

If this had happened to your horse how would you feel? A totally preventable accident. .

 

[paddy555]

I will repeat again....we have invited them to monitor us on several occasions but that has been declined. They have no shred of proof that we are illegal hunting, and yet they would rather continue to hurl abuse at us.



And I explained my reasons why I did not want to post on a thread on a public forum and at least one poster admiting to being part of a sab group.

just curious. You are hunting legally or at least there is not a shed of proof of illegal hunting and I am sure that every sab is aware of every hunt so I don't really see that.

 

[Gallop_Away]

just curious. You are hunting legally or at least there is not a shed of proof of illegal hunting and I am sure that every sab is aware of every hunt so I don't really see that.

Given everything we have put up with at the hands of sabs I do not wish to attract more negative attention than we already endure.

 

[Fred66]

If you are hunting legally than you have nothing to worry about surely?

Are you totally naive? Maybe you tell the truth and are honest and not abusive or law breaking, but the ones I have had the misfortune to come across recently are aggressive, violent, abusive, and their social media updates are riddled with a mixture of half truths and lies and abuse.
We have tried to show that we hunt legally, in 3 years of monitoring then they have not posted anything other than innuendo to indicate that we are doing anything but hunting legally but still they come.

 

[Sandstone1]

Are you totally naive? Maybe you tell the truth and are honest and not abusive or law breaking, but the ones I have had the misfortune to come across recently are aggressive, violent, abusive, and their social media updates are riddled with a mixture of half truths and lies and abuse.
We have tried to show that we hunt legally, in 3 years of monitoring then they have not posted anything other than innuendo to indicate that we are doing anything but hunting legally but still they come.

I am neither naive or a sab. I have witnessed my local hunt chasing a fox very recently and I have reported it to the police. If hunting attracts such negative attention and is so stressful for its followers I really do wonder why you all do it? For a ride across country? for the social aspects? It has no advantage for land owners now so why do it?

 

[YorksG]

I am neither naive or a sab. I have witnessed my local hunt chasing a fox very recently and I have reported it to the police. If hunting attracts such negative attention and is so stressful for its followers I really do wonder why you all do it? For a ride across country? for the social aspects? It has no advantage for land owners now so why do it?

Perhaps because people do not feel that it's appropriate to stop doing something simply as a means to appease others, who have been using violence and intimidation, for many decades?

 

[Crugeran Celt]

I do not hunt, never have, not because I am anti hunting but I am simply not brave enough. Speaking to many farmers they appreciate the hunt as they keep the fox population in check. I think a big problem with many is they cannot see that allowing the fox population to keep growing is going to cause an issue, it's a bit like veganism becoming so popular because so many now have no idea where their food comes from and can't accept farming, it's mad. I have worked with children as old as 15 who have no idea that the meat they eat was once a living animal, these same people are anti hunting. The fact they are prepared to hurt the horses beggers belief when they claim that the whloe point of their protest is animal cruelty.

 

[GSD Woman]

The pro hunters here will spout lots of stuff saying the opposite, blaming sabs, saying their hunt does not hunt foxes, quoting endless reports etc etc.
The truth is illegal fox hunting IS going on.

I didn't realize that anyone is saying that illegal hunting is going on.

Why isn't the job the hunt monitors are doing enough? Sabs make my blood boil.

 

[ycbm]

Passing someone's property, at whatever pace, is entirely legal and acceptable

It's legal, but I wouldn't find it acceptable if fifty riders in a group galloped along the outside of my boundary without warning me that they were going to. I would expect the courtesy of a warning. The only time it has happened, with the drag, I got a warning and invited to join them if I wanted to.


ETA this was my first taste of drag hunting and I was hooked and continued on and off (horse depending) until the drag hunt folded.

 

[ycbm]

I didn't realize that anyone is saying that illegal hunting is going on.

Are you aware of a conviction for incitement to hunt fox illegally which happened a couple of months back, following 2 webinars run by people at the very top of hunting and attended by, I think, hundreds of others?

 

[Sandstone1]

Perhaps because people do not feel that it's appropriate to stop doing something simply as a means to appease others, who have been using violence and intimidation, for many decades?

Even though its illegal and has been for many years now?
I think what it needs is a few people to go to jail for it to sink in.

 

[YorksG]

Even though its illegal and has been for many years now?
I think what it needs is a few people to go to jail for it to sink in.

The sabs use violence and intimidation against those legally hunting.
Eta my post was in response to your question about why people still follow hunts.

 

[Sandstone1]

Deleted as not worth it.

 

[YorksG]

Deleted as not worth it.

Out of interest who do you sab with?

 

[Sandstone1]

Out of interest who do you sab with?

Actually I dont. I would if I had more time though.

 

[YorksG]

Actually I dont. I would if I had more time though.

You would sab, rather than monitor?

 

[Sandstone1]

You would sab, rather than monitor?

I would monitor but I would not allow foxes to be killed if I could help it either. I think hunters are guilty of violence as the video of riders running down a sab this week shows. Fox hunting is illegal but its going on and if you think otherwise you are very wrong.

 

[YorksG]

I would monitor but I would not allow foxes to be killed if I could help it either. I think hunters are guilty of violence as the video of riders running down a sab this week shows. Fox hunting is illegal but its going on and if you think otherwise you are very wrong.

There is a huge difference between monitoring and sabbing. I would also suggest that hunters should face the consequences of violence, however I have heard little evidence to suggest that they set out to find sabs, and use violence and threats to "disuade" them from meeting to perform legal acts.

 

[Tiddlypom]

There appears to be a conflation of passing and trespassing. Passing someone's property, at whatever pace, is entirely legal and acceptable.

Of course it is, no one has suggested otherwise. But when residents courteously request that they get advance notice of the hunt coming by, so that they can make arrangements to keep their own animals safe, it is absolutely not acceptable for the hunt to refuse to do so.

I seem to always have at least one horse here who will completely freak out when the hunt comes by, for reasons unknown. They become panic stricken and overwrought, and would gallop around in a frenzy til they dropped. Currently this is my senior mare, who at 21 yo has calmed down a tad from her younger days - I have owned her for 19 years. I also have my wonky IDx, who had a major pelvic injury 2 years ago, so no way do I want her to be dashing about the field in a tizz either.

So while having the hunt here is always a major logistical PITA, so long as I am given due advance warning, I will get my horses in and the hunt will not get a peep of protest out of me, no matter how inconvenient it is to me. But if the hunt decided not to bother to notify me, and then rocked up without warning, be assured that I get very cross indeed.

Having hunted so much in the past, I know full well what is or is not acceptable behaviour from a hunt.

In addition, if a hunt knows that it may attract antis, then it is even more beholden upon it to pre warn residents, because of the extra aggro that might happen. We who live here are unwittingly caught in the middle. It's happened here before, and it is horrid.

 

[Koweyka]

Just got in from one of “our” hunts, a man was in his allotment with his two year old daughter, twenty hounds invaded looking for the fox they just chased and surrounded the little girl, dad owns land, he wasn’t told the hunt would be there, they trespassed, so one terrified little girl and an upset father and landowner.
But that’s not the fault of the hunt is it, can’t be seen to admit they aren’t squeaky clean and are breaking the law, trespassing and upsetting locals …oh no that just wouldn’t fit the narrative would it.

 

[Sandstone1]

Just got in from one of “our” hunts, a man was in his allotment with his two year old daughter, twenty hounds invaded looking for the fox they just chased and surrounded the little girl, dad owns land, he wasn’t told the hunt would be there, they trespassed, so one terrified little girl and an upset father and landowner.
But that’s not the fault of the hunt is it, can’t be seen to admit they aren’t squeaky clean and are breaking the law, trespassing and upsetting locals …oh no that just wouldn’t fit the narrative would it.

The pro hunters on here need a good dose of reality.

 

[Sandstone1]

There is a huge difference between monitoring and sabbing. I would also suggest that hunters should face the consequences of violence, however I have heard little evidence to suggest that they set out to find sabs, and use violence and threats to "disuade" them from meeting to perform legal acts.

Maybe they are too busy slashing tyres. Another incident this week, but maybe sabs did that themselves hey.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I do not hunt, never have, not because I am anti hunting but I am simply not brave enough. Speaking to many farmers they appreciate the hunt as they keep the fox population in check. I think a big problem with many is they cannot see that allowing the fox population to keep growing is going to cause an issue, it's a bit like veganism becoming so popular because so many now have no idea where their food comes from and can't accept farming, it's mad. I have worked with children as old as 15 who have no idea that the meat they eat was once a living animal, these same people are anti hunting. The fact they are prepared to hurt the horses beggers belief when they claim that the whloe point of their protest is animal cruelty.

The fox population is kept in check by legal shooting

 

[YorksG]

Maybe they are too busy slashing tyres. Another incident this week, but maybe sabs did that themselves hey.

Where was this and what is the evidence that this was linked with hunting? Having spoken to more than one member of ALF over the years, their actions were certainly not confined to sabbing hunts, although that was part of the activity.

 

[Koweyka]

The pro hunters on here need a good dose of reality.

I think they have conveniently forgotten the “how to kill a fox and get away with it” criminal conviction from earlier this year.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Maybe they are too busy slashing tyres. Another incident this week, but maybe sabs did that themselves hey.

That's why I stopped hunting.... 6 pretty new tyres slashed, windscreen smashed, my mounts bridle grabbed by balaclavered man screaming obscenities. .... terrifying and vile.
This on private land where landowner was equally intimidated and threatened by the sabs running around his property.
This hunt has some well behaved monitors, but rent a crowd turn up to regularly sab. Their media reports are in complete opposite of monitor reports, go figure!