Hunting is in a spot of bother

[Indy]

Is there a reason why the group of riders weren't following the chap with the hounds, he seemed to go one way and the group of riders go the opposite.

One thing I know for sure is he isn't going to be out yomping round the countryside for a while. I got knocked over by a lad on a bicycle once and it felt like I'd been run over by a tank for a week so he's probably 10 times worse.

 

[palo1]

Is there a reason why the group of riders weren't following the chap with the hounds, he seemed to go one way and the group of riders go the opposite.

One thing I know for sure is he isn't going to be out yomping round the countryside for a while. I got knocked over by a lad on a bicycle once and it felt like I'd been run over by a tank for a week so he's probably 10 times worse.

No idea. I agree though that the 'field', unless they were going to a gateway or something on that line or going around because the huntsman and hounds were going somewhere the field were not permitted to be, appear to be not with the huntsman and hounds (who are up together nicely). It's not clear why they were heading where they were but the bloke that got hit should certainly rest until there is no risk of any issues.

 

[palo1]

And you wonder why Sabs and Monitors are in the fields.

I hope all you pro hunt have the guts to watch this fox dying, I bet you don’t, how are you going to blame the Sabs for this, trail hunting designed to replicate fox hunting, what a crock. It’s so you can carry on killing wildlife in the worst way possible, trail hunting must be banned. Anyone associated it, hang your heads in shame …. Though I will be waiting for another flying pig before that happens deflect deflect deflect. Disgusting.

https://fb.watch/aBgRD6MJ8T/

I have had the 'guts' to watch this. There are a few things I want to say but I can't get past the sabs pulling that fox around and repeatedly shouting repeatedly 'The fuc***g thing's still alive' without once trying to either dispatch the fox or trying to see if the fox can be treated in any way. They are far more interested in getting the camera over and calling the police. Fair enough to call the police but only one person suggests giving the fox some space because 'it's dying'. As I say, there are other things I want to say but there is not much point.

 

[Fred66]

OMG the comedy post award goes too …

You are so blinkered that you actually think people head out and try and get trampled by a horse for what “sensationalism” are you completely bonkers? A genuine question, you truly believe that ?

This lad (who I know) was on a PUBLIC FOOTPATH to obtain evidence of illegal hunting, you can’t have it all ways but as a fox hunter you clearly believe you can.

Sabs creating this situation purlease, we aren’t going out with an uncontrollable pack of dogs, killing foxes and hares and cats, mauling sheep and killing peoples horses and sooner you and all you other fox killers accept that and move with the times and find a hobby that doesn’t involve killing then the world will be a better place, but I suspect my wait for a flying pig will be infinitely longer than yours.

Can you answer me some questions about you and your sab colleagues, do you (or do you know of ones who do)
a) go onto private land without permission
b) if asked to leave do you
c) do you go out dressed all in black with masks
d) do you go out carrying whips and chemical spray bottles
e) do carry gizmos/horns to call hounds

All of the above are actions I have witnessed either personally or loaded on sab web pages, along with abuse that’s offered both verbally and physically (and they don’t care if children are about or not) these people are self styled as saboteurs and don’t care who gets hurt in the process.

No one has the right to scare someone else into complying with their point of view. If you believe all hunts are breaking the law then lobby your mp, lobby the police commissioner, monitor legally and safely however if you step outside the law then you are no better than those you believe are breaking it.

I assume that if you follow the hunts regularly you are aware that it involves potentially large groups of horses traveling across the countryside at speed and that this will have an element of risk both to the horse, the rider and people who take themselves into the vicinity with the intent of getting in the way.

Your whataboutery regarding sabs not creating the situation is a joke. The hunt don’t seek out sabs to try and wreck their day, was it not enough that the law was changed? Most hunts are aware that in this day and age they cannot deliberately flout the law. Some may have been slow to change as many hoped that the law would eventually be overturned as it didn’t have welfare at its heart, but most realised that this won’t happen and that hunting had to adapt. Are there some diehards, yes but these are a dying breed. Most hunts operate within the law, will there be accidents yes, whether you agree or not a proportion of them are caused by sabs. Points d) and e) above are things that impact on the control of hounds, if the sabs do this then the probability of incidents occurring increases.

Also if it’s your stated aim to stop hunts illegally hunting and you believe they are why are you trying to disrupt the hunt ? Surely you should just gather the evidence and hand it in and get them convicted not basically get rid of any “evidence“ by your actions.

 

[Gallop_Away]

I have had the 'guts' to watch this. There are a few things I want to say but I can't get past the sabs pulling that fox around and repeatedly shouting repeatedly 'The fuc***g thing's still alive' without once trying to either dispatch the fox or trying to see if the fox can be treated in any way. They are far more interested in getting the camera over and calling the police. Fair enough to call the police but only one person suggests giving the fox some space because 'it's dying'. As I say, there are other things I want to say but there is not much point.

Quite. Horribly upsetting video all-round.

 

[I'm Dun]

I have had the 'guts' to watch this. There are a few things I want to say but I can't get past the sabs pulling that fox around and repeatedly shouting repeatedly 'The fuc***g thing's still alive' without once trying to either dispatch the fox or trying to see if the fox can be treated in any way. They are far more interested in getting the camera over and calling the police. Fair enough to call the police but only one person suggests giving the fox some space because 'it's dying'. As I say, there are other things I want to say but there is not much point.

I watched it. I am absolutely not pro illegal hunting in any shape or form, but watching that, how the hell is the hunt supposed to control the hounds? People shouting and screaming commands from all over the place. The hounds just look confused tbh.

Why did no one dispatch the fox? They pulled it about a bit for the camera then walked off and left it. If they didnt want to or didnt know how to, then they should have called the hunt over to dispatch it.

 

[palo1]

I watched it. I am absolutely not pro illegal hunting in any shape or form, but watching that, how the hell is the hunt supposed to control the hounds? People shouting and screaming commands from all over the place. The hounds just look confused tbh.

Why did no one dispatch the fox? They pulled it about a bit for the camera then walked off and left it. If they didnt want to or didnt know how to, then they should have called the hunt over to dispatch it.

Yes. Quite. There are other things too...

 

[Fred66]

I watched it. I am absolutely not pro illegal hunting in any shape or form, but watching that, how the hell is the hunt supposed to control the hounds? People shouting and screaming commands from all over the place. The hounds just look confused tbh.

Why did no one dispatch the fox? They pulled it about a bit for the camera then walked off and left it. If they didnt want to or didnt know how to, then they should have called the hunt over to dispatch it.

This is what makes me sick about the animal rights brigade. I am all about animal welfare and ensuring that they don’t suffer unnecessarily but animal rights is something else altogether. I’ve seen a hound hit by a car and rather than help lift it into a vehicle to get it to a vet, they stood filming it. They have a very warped view of caring for animals.

 

[Fred66]

No idea. I agree though that the 'field', unless they were going to a gateway or something on that line or going around because the huntsman and hounds were going somewhere the field were not permitted to be, appear to be not with the huntsman and hounds (who are up together nicely). It's not clear why they were heading where they were but the bloke that got hit should certainly rest until there is no risk of any issues.

Don’t know but as another poster said the ground on Friday was quite wet in that area and it might well be that where the hounds were going the huntsman was allowed but not the field.

 

[Chianti]

I was told that if horses were coming towards you fast, eg when you were in a field trying to catch something in, that you should stand still as horses would not try to run you down. I appreciate that there are the odd exceptions to this! I do think that if I were driving down a lane and saw someone standing in the road, I wouldn't think ' Well they shouldn't be in the road', I would do my best to miss them! I find the defense of some hunting incidents increasingly hard to take. As I've posted before I know of a hunt which was quite happy to try to hunt a fox when asked to do so by a land owner. They were obviously quite happy to act illegally and I'm sure there would be others.

 

[Millionwords]

Why did no one dispatch the fox? They pulled it about a bit for the camera then walked off and left it. If they didnt want to or didnt know how to, then they should have called the hunt over to dispatch it.

I'm quite literally a forum reader, on several forums...I never comment on anything....but how would you expect them to put that fox out of its misery? With what? Its not their fault it was caught by hounds illegally, what would you suggest they do to it?

 

[I'm Dun]

I'm quite literally a forum reader, on several forums...I never comment on anything....but how would you expect them to put that fox out of its misery? With what? Its not their fault it was caught by hounds illegally, what would you suggest they do to it?

My post literally says, call the hunt over to dispatch it, not pull it about for a video then walk off.

 

[Koweyka]

I'm quite literally a forum reader, on several forums...I never comment on anything....but how would you expect them to put that fox out of its misery? With what? Its not their fault it was caught by hounds illegally, what would you suggest they do to it?

Exactly, what the hell were the Sabs supposed to do, putting hounds through scrub like that where they are bound to pick up a fox, the hounds had it before they even knew there was a kill. They thought but was dead. We don’t carry guns contrary to the outlandish claims of us being armed terrorists. At the end of the day if that hunt wasn’t there that fox would still be alive that’s all on the hunt not the Sabs.
It’s amazing the pro hunt “lets kill foxes brigade” whinge when they film incidents and whinge when they don’t.
Trail hunting should be banned.

 

[Millionwords]

My post literally says, call the hunt over to dispatch it, not pull it about for a video then walk off.

Aplogies, I don't know if you edited your reply, but I didn't see that part the first time I read it, by the time I'd decided to post I didn't go back.

They didn't pull it about, but they did intially think it was dead. They shouldn't have needed to call the hunt over to kill it, it shouldn't have been half killed by the hounds in the first place. Irrespective of my views on hunting pre-ban...its now illegal and these "accidents" are too common not to be the hunts intentions.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Looked rather deliberate going by the footage. No amount of intimidation warrants trying to run someone down with your horse. The man on the ground was assaulted and the rider put their horse in danger, I wonder if the horse is bruised/injured at all from the impact of hitting him.

Maybe he should not have been stood in the field, maybe he was on a public footpath and had every right to be, either way that group of riders knew exactly what they were doing and they were lucky that they didn't kill him tbh.

There really does seem to be a mob mentality when it comes to hunting - I have never witnessed any such behaviour from people who are regularly hacking on public land. I've been on many-a-ride through public fields where there are people walking, out with their dogs etc, children running about, and have never had any issues. It is because we are keenly aware that we are on shared space, and that taking out large animals like horses is a huge responsibility. We always err on the side of caution if anyone else is about, because it is everyone's right to be there and being on horseback does not make us in any way superior.

Exactly. Funnily enough when I'm going for a burn up across the fields when hacking, and there are people walking, I make sure I avoid them. Because that's what should happen. I am aware of my surroundings and it is my job to keep them safe. Its not like this guy suddenly steps into their path....

How would people react if that was a car deliberately driven at someone?

If I rode deliberately at anyone I'd expect to get the police knocking on my door. Isn't that intent to injure, at best.... I'd also be hoping I had very high levels of public liability insurance. Although if deliberate would insurance even pay out....

I see the same page has yet another fox kill posted after the above clip.

When will this end?

 

[ycbm]

I see the same page has yet another fox kill posted after the above clip.

When will this end?

When hunting is banned altogether.

I'm sorry, and I know some sabs behave badly, and some illegally, but I'm tired of hearing people who hunt a trail laid using fox piss complaining about being mistaken for hunting fox hunting when they aren't.
.

 

[Miss_Millie]

When hunting is banned altogether.

I'm sorry, and I know some sabs behave badly, and some illegally, but I'm tired of hearing people who hunt a trail laid using fox piss complaining about being mistaken for hunting fox hunting when they aren't.
.

I can't see any justification for this either, especially when there are other scents that could be used which are just as potent. I have never seen anyone give a good reason/explanation to this. Because there isn't one.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Unsurprisingly, the N.Shrops incident is being reported in the main stream media. This is from the Daily Mail.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...orse-left-neck-injuries-Shropshire-video.html

Terrifying moment hunt saboteur is mown down by horse and left with neck and back injuries as riders charge towards him

Has there been any counter statement on this incident by either the N.Shrops hunt itself or the MFHA? The governing body should have stepped in asap to take control of what sanctions/actions should follow on from this.

Whether any individual will face criminal charges after this remains to be seen, but the hunting fraternity need to deal with it pronto and make it clear that this sort of behaviour - riding at antis to intimidate them - will never be tolerated.

The antis have a phrase for this - 'using horses as weapons'.

Some riders, who will be clearly identifiable on the video, should be served a ban by the hunt as a warning to others for bringing hunting into ill repute.

 

[CrunchieBoi]

Was there ever any condemnation of the hunt staff member who was filmed stabbing the fox with a garden fork?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Was there ever any condemnation of the hunt staff member who was filmed stabbing the fox with a garden fork?

He's not been charged yet. The hunt and MFHA will be keeping their head down until the charges are made public, and then working out how they can distance themselves from his actions.

It's very much in their interests that he is portrayed as a lone sicko, and not one who has close associations with a registered pack.

 

[Fellewell]

Sabs have done this before and they've been hurt before. This isn't Tiananmen Square, this is basic horsemanship and on page one of how not to get killed by a horse is don't stand directly in front a horse, for one thing they can't see you.

 

[Koweyka]

He was on the footpath way before the two groups of riders came along, if you are such an incompetent rider that you can’t see a human stood in front of you for a fairly long period of time, you have no business rising out in public.

This notion the pro fox killers have that we deliberately set out to be injured is utterly deranged.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Sabs have done this before and they've been hurt before. This isn't Tiananmen Square, this is basic horsemanship and on page one of how not to get killed by a horse is don't stand directly in front a horse, for one thing they can't see you.

Ahem. Suggest that Fellewell rewatches the video.

The sab did not position himself directly in front of a horse. He was in clear and distant view in an open field, and a group of riders then deliberately rode at him at speed, despite having plenty of room to go round him.

He, completely correctly, had stood still so that they could see and avoid him.

 

[Clodagh]

Watching the fox die… thoughts are that it was chopped, not hunted, so that is something that could happen when anyone walks a dog.
It may well have run from cover and been safe if sabs hadn’t been surrounding it.
I don’t know why none of them thought to turn it the right way up or cover it, or even just leave it to die although I appreciate they were upset.
If hounds hadn’t been chased off it they would have killed it a lot quicker.
I can’t see that particular episode was anything but an accident. Horrible to see though.

As for the field riding down the sab, what bloody idiots. You really do think hunting can’t wait to finish itself off.

 

[Koweyka]

The huntsman could have done far more than he did to pull the hounds immediately out of that scrub rather than ride off, the whip could also have moved them away. They did practically nothing to stop them. The hounds had hold of the fox before the Sabs fully reacted, they were on the road not even in the field, until the hound dragged the fox out of the cover they weren’t aware of a kill, but still the huntsman didn’t come back. They thought the fox was dead, I can imagine the shock to see such a badly injured animal start writhing like that, it was horrendous, until you are actually in that situation you don’t know how you will react. For all the pro fox killers saying they should have put it out of its misery …. How and what with ? Strangle it ? Ask the terrier man if they can borrow his spade to bash it on the head ? All the foxes I have dealt with that the hounds kill have already been dead when I get to them.

Absolutely horrific and totally avoidable, this is why there has to be a reckless clause, allowing hounds to search in areas where wildlife lives is reckless and this is why foxes to die.

This won’t be classed as illegal hunting, but anyone trying to blame the Sabs for this is completely wrong.

All trail hunting should be banned, I did have some sympathy for the trail hunts I know are trailing and not taking risks to wildlife, but when I read comments from certain people on here that are supposedly representing these “well behaved” trail hunts it tells me that you don’t deserve any sympathy and it should all be banned, you are doing a sterling job of helping bang the nails in the coffin.

 

[Nasicus]

I can’t see that particular episode was anything but an accident.

Until hounds are no longer being trained to follow the scent of a fox, even for trail purposes, it will never be an 'accident'.

Plenty of scents in the world they could be following, that fact that coming up 20 years since the ban and they're still being trained on a scent that cannot be controlled and just happens to lead to quarry when the wires get crossed is downright daft.

 

[Gallop_Away]

Koweyka can you please stop referring to everyone who disagrees with you as a "pro-fox killer". It's very insulting to those of us who trail hunt legally and have taken time to explain our views. It also weakens your points and comes across as petty.

 

[Clodagh]

Until hounds are no longer being trained to follow the scent of a fox, even for trail purposes, it will never be an 'accident'.

Plenty of scents in the world they could be following, that fact that coming up 20 years since the ban and they're still being trained on a scent that cannot be controlled and just happens to lead to quarry when the wires get crossed is downright daft.

My dogs would pounce on a rabbit if they found one. And leverets. They chase foxes. They are not as big as foxhounds so can’t do them any harm but they certainly belt off after them if they see or smell any.

 

[Clodagh]

Until hounds are no longer being trained to follow the scent of a fox, even for trail purposes, it will never be an 'accident'.

Plenty of scents in the world they could be following, that fact that coming up 20 years since the ban and they're still being trained on a scent that cannot be controlled and just happens to lead to quarry when the wires get crossed is downright daft.

I agree about the different scents.

 

[Koweyka]

Koweyka can you please stop referring to everyone who disagrees with you as a "pro-fox killer". It's very insulting to those of us who trail hunt legally and have taken time to explain our views. It also weakens your points and comes across as petty.

There have been a lot of comments recently that have insulted me and the people who are trying to stop wildlife being killed, many of these have come from the people that are supposedly trailing. Continually blaming the Sabs and monitors for all the hunts bad behaviour, some of the names/descriptions/blaming of the lad who was mown down are disgusting, I know him personally.

Then blaming the Sabs for that fox that was killed and then for not putting it out of its misery and these are coming from the people that claim to be trailing, they certainly aren’t acting that way. If they tone the rhetoric and insults down so will I, I usualy refer to them as pro hunt, but certainly there are several that do “trail hunting” no favours at all and are just encouraging even harder views against trail hunting as a whole.