Hypermobile horse and what to do

[CanteringCarrot]

It is becoming ever apparent that my 3 year old is very hypermobile. I am not happy with myself for not realizing that when I bought him as yearling. Quite frankly, I see this in way too many PRE's and horses in general nowadays.

I don't know what to do with him. Every time he expresses some unhappiness over any matter, it makes me wonder if it's linked to that. I don't foresee him having any form of longevity to his life. However, he's always in a good mood or an even better mood after he works or after I've done something with him. So I'm hesitant to just leave him alone. He's smart and people oriented, so likes the interaction.

I also know that some strength and posture work can be beneficial to a hypermobile horse, but at just 3, his pasterns are parallel to the ground at both the trot and canter. They're long, and soft. He sort of flings his front legs out infront of him and moves big.

He's never going to hold up to what I want to do (dressage, hacking over varied terrain, and popping a jump perhaps). I don't feel right selling him on, but as a one horse owner it sucks to own a horse like this. I've accepted that I'll never reach the level I was at with my last horse again, and this may be the end of any productive riding for me. Do I just keep on with him until he breaks or is in substantial pain and call it a day? Or leave him as a field ornament?

I've thought about selling before, but I just don't think that's right on a moral level for me.

I've wasted so much time, money and energy on this horse, but I know that's just how it is with horses. I just don't know what to do with him at this point.

 

[9tails]

I think that hacking over varied terrain can really strengthen legs. I've seen more horses have issues with constantly schooling, usually with leg wraps on. Horses can go wrong in a field so enjoy him.

 

[YourValentine]

I would continue doing basic strengthening work and schooling as you would with any young horse, and see how he develops. He is still 3 and has a lot of strengthening to do. He might with age and strength become less extravagant in his movement.

The patterns is an issue, but I rode a horse in NZ that had pasterns you'd run a mile from if buying, but he'd grown up on a mountain and was a tough as old boots, and did long days of stock work. So he might not go GP but with the right work might do more than you expect.

 

[Alibear]

I'd heavily lean into groundwork, perhaps even liberty work, and teach as many manoeuvres as possible from the ground. That should help him strengthen up, and I'd hope he's stronger at 5/6, so you can think about backing/riding then.
I'd also look for something I could ride in the meantime, such as a loan, share, riding school, etc. If you couldn't ride him, then he'd have a good set of skills, which means you'd have a chance of finding him a good home with someone who is into liberty work, etc.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Yeah, when the weather allows I try to fit some trails and outdoor riding in. I also take him for a fair amount of handwalks. Our terrain isn't too extreme, but it's not riding circles in a school at least.

Some days I am ok with it being what it is and recognize that even horses with very good or textbook conformation can still go wrong, lame, retire early etc. Other days I'm not sure what the point is and doubt any sort of longevity with him.

The vet said he doesn't look as though he'd have DSLD/ESPA but he also said I should enjoy his movement

 

[ihatework]

Without having seen him my initial gut reaction is don’t overthink and catastrophize before even trying.

Steady cross training, develop core strength, straightness and even if hypermobile this doesn’t mean he won’t have a useful job for you.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I'd heavily lean into groundwork, perhaps even liberty work, and teach as many manoeuvres as possible from the ground. That should help him strengthen up, and I'd hope he's stronger at 5/6, so you can think about backing/riding then.
I'd also look for something I could ride in the meantime, such as a loan, share, riding school, etc. If you couldn't ride him, then he'd have a good set of skills, which means you'd have a chance of finding him a good home with someone who is into liberty work, etc.

I do a groundwork and liberty work with him. We do a variety of maneuveres from the ground. He's very intelligent and receptive to it all.

He's already been backed and that occurred with zero issues. He isn't ridden extensively though. A light ride once or twice a week. Sometimes no rides and just from the ground. I try to stick with variety. We hand walk, do ground work, posture work, liberty, trick training, and he can longline too. The thing is that he loves something to do and always seems so content with himself afterward. I wanted to leave him turned away longer, but every time I came to the field he whinnied, came to me, and seemed desperate for something to do. So I try to give him different things to do without it being too much. He does get days off of course.

Finding that type of home would be extremely difficult here. On top of that I've looked for other riding opportunities and I'd have to drive 90+ min in the opposite direction from where he is and 60+ from home. So it ends up time and cost prohibitive.

We're in a dead zone of sorts and there aren't many local opportunities, if any. I've basically accepted the demise of my riding and skill level

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Edit: removed because I don't want to deal with further nasty messages as a result of this post.

 

[sport horse]

He is only 3 years old. Would he not benefit from being allowed to grow naturally - ie out in a field with other young horses. Then when fully mature work him carefully and try to strengthen him up. My 3 year olds, destined for a show jumping career, are still out in a field and unbroken.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

He is only 3 years old. Would he not benefit from being allowed to grow naturally - ie out in a field with other young horses. Then when fully mature work him carefully and try to strengthen him up. My 3 year olds, destined for a show jumping career, are still out in a field and unbroken.

That's what he was doing up until his 3rd birthday. I've considered returning him to that life. I rather not make this a thread on when to start young horses though.

The issue is finding safe 24/7 turnout. It's all out with barbed wire here. Current fields are safe with horse fencing, but he's in at night or a few hours during the day (depending on if he's on night or day turnout).

I've looked around and he may just have to be on livery far away. I could make it out once a week. I honestly rather sell than have him far and not be able to check in more because that's not the type of owner I am.

Previously when he was out 24/7 in a herd I checked in 3 times a week. Just to look him over. He was always ecstatic to see me I think he found living on 15 acres in a small mixed herd to be fine, but definitely liked people time.

We move a lot due to work, and we have a move pending, so that could open up livery options later next year.

 

[I'm Dun]

Id take big fields with barbed wire over being in. Can you find some really hilly natural pasture on a large acreage and chuck him out for 6months to a year to strengthen?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Id take big fields with barbed wire over being in. Can you find some really hilly natural pasture on a large acreage and chuck him out for 6months to a year to strengthen?

Yeah, I can find somewhere like that, with mixtures of barbed wire and wire fencing. None without bared wire. The thing is that would be "pasture board" here and the 3 "best" places don't allow rugging. At all. So I don't know if he'd cope well given how ridiculously cold and windy it gets here.

There is one other place that would allow me to rug. I have to do it. There are no other liveries. It's just with the YO's horses. I can't make it there twice a day though. YO is interesting and so is the fencing. There is also no parasite control used there (wormers or fec counts).

It's so hard figuring out what is best. A safe and clean environment with some hours in, or borderline unsafe feral living with 24/7 time spent out. At the "safe" place I can do some "work" with him (as in ground work, posture work, etc). At the other places I can but it's in the fields with the other horses and weather dependant.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I should've known better than to post here. I should've expected flak for starting a 3 year old doing anything

His vet was urging me to start him under saddle (gently) and do more with him, but as well all know, not all vets are created equal. Said vet has a very successful sport horse breeding operation, and does start theirs at 3. So that's probably where that comes from.

I know it's controversial, but I don't see walking under saddle, and occasionally "more" to be harmful. I probably completely messed this up doing this with this horse, because while the rest of his body appears big and strong, his soft tissues aren't. I honestly don't know that turning away would solve this?

I do think ownership is no longer for me, but again, selling such a horse feels off to me.

 

[U.N.Owen]

I think light work of an end of year 3 year old (assume he is 4 next year) is fine and probably suitable for a weak horse. Sounds as if you are doing all the strengthening work correctly too.

I wouldn't worry too much either, there are a lot of modern, high level competition horses that are hypermobile, you just have to be mindful of that and train accordingly.

I also think a 3 year old being in a stable for a few hours is fine

 

[sport horse]

I should've known better than to post here. I should've expected flak for starting a 3 year old doing anything

His vet was urging me to start him under saddle (gently) and do more with him, but as well all know, not all vets are created equal. Said vet has a very successful sport horse breeding operation, and does start theirs at 3. So that's probably where that comes from.

I know it's controversial, but I don't see walking under saddle, and occasionally "more" to be harmful. I probably completely messed this up doing this with this horse, because while the rest of his body appears big and strong, his soft tissues aren't. I honestly don't know that turning away would solve this?

I do think ownership is no longer for me, but again, selling such a horse feels off to me.

People have very different views on when to break in. However you did come on here asking for advice. Now you have to sort out what you wish to take on board, what you wish to discard and what you are able to actually do. I am afraid that young horses are always full of problems - they do have one objective and that is to kill themselves as soon as possible (often even before they are born or conceived!) so you are winning in that yours is still alive at 3 years old! I have bred many - some are international show jumpers and some are totally broken (not broken in!) before they achieve anything.

It is essential to be philosophic and take the rough with the smooth and pray that the good will outweigh the bad. Enjoy the journey. xx

 

[SpeedyPony]

I should've known better than to post here. I should've expected flak for starting a 3 year old doing anything

His vet was urging me to start him under saddle (gently) and do more with him, but as well all know, not all vets are created equal. Said vet has a very successful sport horse breeding operation, and does start theirs at 3. So that's probably where that comes from.

I know it's controversial, but I don't see walking under saddle, and occasionally "more" to be harmful. I probably completely messed this up doing this with this horse, because while the rest of his body appears big and strong, his soft tissues aren't. I honestly don't know that turning away would solve this?

I do think ownership is no longer for me, but again, selling such a horse feels off to me.

I don't think starting a 3yo is necessarily a bad thing, particularly if the work they're doing under saddle is only a quiet amble a couple of times a week. It's difficult when you have limited options for livery- I'd be inclined to say having him where you can ensure daily turnout and have somewhere safe to do your groundwork/ridden work is possibly better for strengthening than having him out full time with no work, although that might depend on the turnout (i.e. flat Vs hilly etc).
It might be worth trying him slowly over varied ground- either led or long reined at first to see how he copes and if that improves his strength at all?
Ultimately not all horses are built for longevity, but with something like hyper mobility my gut feeling would be that strengthening and fittening work is likely to improve their lifespan/QOL over just keeping them as a pet.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

People have very different views on when to break in. However you did come on here asking for advice. Now you have to sort out what you wish to take on board, what you wish to discard and what you are able to actually do. I am afraid that young horses are always full of problems - they do have one objective and that is to kill themselves as soon as possible (often even before they are born or conceived!) so you are winning in that yours is still alive at 3 years old! I have bred many - some are international show jumpers and some are totally broken (not broken in!) before they achieve anything.

It is essential to be philosophic and take the rough with the smooth and pray that the good will outweigh the bad. Enjoy the journey. xx

Thanks.

I feed bad saying this, but part of me wishes something would happen to him that would then be reason enough to PTS. Then it's over and there are no more questions, doubts, or concerns over this. This is why I think it's best for me to step away from ownership/horses when it's possible. Between this and the debacle with the last horse, I'm feeling over it.

I don't see him having a bright future, but I suppose he's happy in himself today, and that's something.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I don't think starting a 3yo is necessarily a bad thing, particularly if the work they're doing under saddle is only a quiet amble a couple of times a week. It's difficult when you have limited options for livery- I'd be inclined to say having him where you can ensure daily turnout and have somewhere safe to do your groundwork/ridden work is possibly better for strengthening than having him out full time with no work, although that might depend on the turnout (i.e. flat Vs hilly etc).
It might be worth trying him slowly over varied ground- either led or long reined at first to see how he copes and if that improves his strength at all?
Ultimately not all horses are built for longevity, but with something like hyper mobility my gut feeling would be that strengthening and fittening work is likely to improve their lifespan/QOL over just keeping them as a pet.

It is rather flat here. Even the 15 acres he was on, was nothing near "hilly." I'd probably have to go about 2-3 hours South for that. Then the landscape changes.

Your gut feeling matches mine on the lifespan and QOL. Especially because I don't think this one would mentally cope well or feel fulfilled being a pet. I need his brain on a different body!

The terrain here doesn't vary wildly, but does vary. He enjoys being hauled out for a handwalk on a trail, so I may do that and observe closely. At "home" we just have fields to walk through. Which is still outside of a school, at least. He enjoys walking through the fields.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I’m sorry that your young horse is causing you stress.

Re the being ridden thing, if he is hyper mobile then the rider’s weight will inevitably cause the joints to sink more than if the horse was not carrying a rider. Hence not riding him until he has hopefully strengthened up in maybe a year or two.

I fully understand wondering at times why on earth I own horses when the worry over them can be greater than the rewards .

 

[Michen]

I feel like there must be a ton of dressage horses competing with that kind of confo just fine? Like it’s not a given he’s going to break, just means he’s maybe more likely to break in a certain way? Not that I know anything about flexy pasterns.

I have a heart thing that makes me something like 3-4 x more likely to have a stroke than most people but until then, life goes on. Not trying to compare but it’s just everyone and everything has a weakness or something somewhere that’s more likely to make certain things happen that won’t for other people. But it doesn’t mean it will. At least that’s what I tell myself!

I feel like horses are such a s*** show and gamble anyway, any horse is a worry. He’s such a lovely boy I would just enjoy him and learn from him what he has to teach you and you him. Nothing is a given anyway.

And you’ve done an epic job with him, would be a shame not to continue to enjoy him.

Or you send him to be in the spring and he can enjoy some Colorado hills

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I’m sorry that your young horse is causing you stress.

Re the being ridden thing, if he is hyper mobile then the rider’s weight will inevitably cause the joints to sink more than if the horse was not carrying a rider. Hence not riding him until he has hopefully strengthened up in maybe a year or two.

I fully understand wondering at times why on earth I own horses when the worry over them can be greater than the rewards .

Will he strengthen up though? That's what I don't understand. Would leaving him idle until 5/6 actually be of benefit?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I feel like there must be a ton of dressage horses competing with that kind of confo just fine? Like it’s not a given he’s going to break, just means he’s maybe more likely to break in a certain way? Not that I know anything about flexy pasterns.

I have a heart thing that makes me something like 3-4 x more likely to have a stroke than most people but until then, life goes on. Not trying to compare but it’s just everyone and everything has a weakness or something somewhere that’s more likely to make certain things happen that won’t for other people. But it doesn’t mean it will.

I feel like horses are such a s*** show and gamble anyway, any horse is a worry. He’s such a lovely boy I would just enjoy him and learn from him what he has to teach you and you him. Nothing is a given anyway.

And you’ve done an epic job with him, would be a shame not to continue to enjoy him.

Ehhh, his are really bad though. Quite extreme.

I feel like if I sold him and bought one with better confo and without this issue, that one would probably break sooner knowing my luck so it is a complete shit show and gamble!

I also think I'm just too aware at this point in my "horse life" and any horse will make me mental.

 

[BBP]

I’m happy to weigh in with my experiences of a hypermobile horse…well, 2 hypermobile horses!, but I know you and I differ a bit in our views (nothing wrong with that) so I’m not sure I will be very helpful.

I will say though, well done on noticing it now and considering the implications. It took me far too long to realise with my horse and I wish I had picked up on it a lot sooner.

 

[TwyfordM]

As someone with hypermobility/ehlers danlos and connective tissue disorder. The worse thing you could be doing is idling about! Less muscle - less support for joints, more movement of joints = more damage.

I would be creating programs to build muscle and tone to support body. Hill work, poles, physio to make sure he's not tight anywhere, strengthening work is key!

I wouldn't see being ridden at a walk an issue. Would be strengthening the muscles needed to progress later on.

I guess as with humans it will take longer to build any muscle so it will be slow and steady work. Agility, pole mazes, stepping over things, up and down banks out hacking etc, steady road work builds muscle really well.

Be protective, the last thing you need is an injury/box rest as it'll take starting again.

To pre warn you, it CAN (not will!) be extremely painful, so you'd need to be vigilant that the horse isn't in any discomfort, but it's just as likely to be an issue wether he's stood in a field or out competing

 

[sport horse]

At 3 years od his growth plates will not have fused so yes he will strengthen up. Bearing in mind your mental fragility regarding the whole horse ownership thing, why not find a good young horse livery where there are hills and maybe barns for the herd to shelter in and turn him away for the winter and see what happens - even if it is a long way away. Obviously finding soemwhere trustworthy is paramount. What area are you in? Maybe people on here can recommend places?

Next spring you can then review the horse and your own feelings.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I’m happy to weigh in with my experiences of a hypermobile horse…well, 2 hypermobile horses!, but I know you and I differ a bit in our views (nothing wrong with that) so I’m not sure I will be very helpful.

I will say though, well done on noticing it now and considering the implications. It took me far too long to realise with my horse and I wish I had picked up on it a lot sooner.

Yeah, I think we just differ on when to start a horse and how much we do at certain ages. Which is not uncommon.

It's just that now, what does one do? What is too much, and what is not enough?

Or do I just continue on until the day that the horse says no more and call it?

What signs do/did yours show of being bothered by it? I know BBP was hypermobile, but is your Connie too? Is there anything else you notice in their bodies (outside of the legs)?

 

[nutjob]

The vet said he doesn't look as though he'd have DSLD/ESPA

Scanning the suspensory's isn't too expensive. Without that I think it's very difficult for a vet to say in a 3 yo and the damage is cumulative, my vet was very positive about my DSLD/ESPA horse but he got rapidly worse when I retired him, in part due to him being unsafe to ride. I wouldn't pass him on unless you are sure he doesn't have this.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

As someone with hypermobility/ehlers danlos and connective tissue disorder. The worse thing you could be doing is idling about! Less muscle - less support for joints, more movement of joints = more damage.

I would be creating programs to build muscle and tone to support body. Hill work, poles, physio to make sure he's not tight anywhere, strengthening work is key!

I wouldn't see being ridden at a walk an issue. Would be strengthening the muscles needed to progress later on.

I guess as with humans it will take longer to build any muscle so it will be slow and steady work. Agility, pole mazes, stepping over things, up and down banks out hacking etc, steady road work builds muscle really well.

Be protective, the last thing you need is an injury/box rest as it'll take starting again.

To pre warn you, it CAN (not will!) be extremely painful, so you'd need to be vigilant that the horse isn't in any discomfort, but it's just as likely to be an issue wether he's stood in a field or out competing

So technically, per a doctor, I am hypermobile and "too bendy" but due to my ongoing strength exercises and general tendency to be active, I'm fine. It rarely causes an issue for me, but I'm not a horse, so I wasn't sure about similarities. If I get weaker or am inactive, then things start to crop up. I have the very rare "day or two" but it's uncommon.

I also have too much arthritis for my age so like to keep moving as that seems to help. Or so I tell myself

 

[CanteringCarrot]

At 3 years od his growth plates will not have fused so yes he will strengthen up. Bearing in mind your mental fragility regarding the whole horse ownership thing, why not find a good young horse livery where there are hills and maybe barns for the herd to shelter in and turn him away for the winter and see what happens - even if it is a long way away. Obviously finding soemwhere trustworthy is paramount. What area are you in? Maybe people on here can recommend places?

Next spring you can then review the horse and your own feelings.

I'm in the USA and I don't know if keeping him 2-3 hours away is better or worse for my mental state it's a weird place that I live in!

I don't think he will strengthen up soo much by all of his plates closing/fusing that it will solve this matter, but I understand what you mean.

 

[ester]

chucks in the useful info that I move more correctly under bigger load . Apparently that someone times counts as cheating