I am BLAZING mad!

[LadyGascoyne]

Some of you have never been far up sh*t creek without a paddle, and it shows

Everyone’s creek has different sh*t, CC. Sh*tty creeks are probably part of my reason for all the planning.

 

[scats]

I do think as well, that if you’ve lost a horse to colic, you realise how quickly things can go badly downhill. I don’t take any chances now with colic and I make sure I am there, regardless.

I wouldn’t be able to concentrate at work if I knew I had an unwell horse at home, even if they were being seen to be someone else,

 

[TheresaW]

I must have the best bosses. When Dolly lost the foal, it was a bank holiday, so was off anyway. Didn’t go in next day as she was at vets. Phoned in sick, but was given it as compassionate leave.

When Aled collapsed, phoned work and said I would be late, as needed to get him to vet. Told take day off, which was needed as he was pts. Went in next day, prepared for a day annual leave, or unpaid, boss gave me compassionate. 2 different companies and bosses.

 

[palo1]

I did a lot of work driving to and from work and also riding after work. That was thinking work, how I was going to approach something. It didn't distract me anymore that listening to the radio or having a discussion with a passenger. In fact those were the best times as there was no distraction. Even now I am retired I do most of my thinking and decision making on finance and the like from the back of a horse. I would happily use a mobile out riding if only we had a signal.

I find it really useful and effective to process information and ideas whilst riding or walking though I hate using my phone when riding tbh; it feels so intrusive!! But processing stuff and mentally mulling things over is a a different task to team communications; at least for me so although I understand that it might work for some folks I wouldn't attempt a work discussion whilst riding and would rather ride with my mind on that whilst cogs turn in the background or be working.

 

[Barton Bounty]

I find it really useful and effective to process information and ideas whilst riding or walking though I hate using my phone when riding tbh; it feels so intrusive!! But processing stuff and mentally mulling things over is a a different task to team communications; at least for me so although I understand that it might work for some folks I wouldn't attempt a work discussion whilst riding and would rather ride with my mind on that whilst cogs turn in the background or be working.

Im with you on the phone thing… its the concentration for me… my son called me about tyres and I had him on loudspeaker and BB took that opportunity to bronk while in canter, because I had taken my eye off the ball

 

[Alwaysmoretoknow]

So if my job was so critical for life or death situations for anyone (like working in a emergency role in the NHS) I would obviously try and ensure that I had emergency cover if it meant my absence could potentially result in someone dying or suffering serious long-term issues but this was so not the case here.

On another level, I guess I shouldn't be able to have either pets or children as a single parent and work in such a role as emergency cover could not actually be completely relied on as almost everyone has their own responsibilities. How many people are in that situation?

This was the case of management poor planning (it could have been anything like a car crash, appendicitis etc.) that resulted in the (actually non-existent because all situations were covered) 'crises'.

I'd also like advice on how you 'arrange' for emergency cover if you have your horses at home? Do I pay a retainer to a freelancer and hope that they have space in their daily workload to attend to your emergency and potentially let all their other clients down?

Yes I do have horsey friends but they also have jobs to support their own horses so can't be expected to cover for your emergencies although we all do everything we can to support each other.

 

[ihatework]

God reading this thread makes me even more glad of my current employer’s.

I take time off here and there for stuff far less critical than poorly animals. It’s never an issue. If my work gets done that’s what counts.

The upside to my employers is if hits the fan or if the extra mile is needed, I do it without question. Even then they always say ‘take the time back’ - I never do because it evens out in the end.

I’m exactly the same with my team. If they are doing a good job then they can come and go as they please.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Everyone’s creek has different sh*t, CC. Sh*tty creeks are probably part of my reason for all the planning.

Yeah, no sh*t!


Sorry, couldn't resist


But seriously though, I know that

That wasn't quite my point though, but I was being rather vague perhaps!

 

[Barton Bounty]

So if my job was so critical for life or death situations for anyone (like working in a emergency role in the NHS) I would obviously try and ensure that I had emergency cover if it meant my absence could potentially result in someone dying or suffering serious long-term issues but this was so not the case here.

On another level, I guess I shouldn't be able to have either pets or children as a single parent and work in such a role as emergency cover could not actually be completely relied on as almost everyone has their own responsibilities. How many people are in that situation?

This was the case of management poor planning (it could have been anything like a car crash, appendicitis etc.) that resulted in the (actually non-existent because all situations were covered) 'crises'.

I'd also like advice on how you 'arrange' for emergency cover if you have your horses at home? Do I pay a retainer to a freelancer and hope that they have space in their daily workload to attend to your emergency and potentially let all their other clients down?

Yes I do have horsey friends but they also have jobs to support their own horses so can't be expected to cover for your emergencies although we all do everything we can to support each other.

How did your meeting go? Is all ok with you?

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Yeah, no sh*t!


Sorry, couldn't resist


But seriously though, I know that

That wasn't quite my point though, but I was being rather vague perhaps!

excellent reply.

Original possibly went over my head?

 

[Gallop_Away]

I do think as well, that if you’ve lost a horse to colic, you realise how quickly things can go badly downhill. I don’t take any chances now with colic and I make sure I am there, regardless.

I wouldn’t be able to concentrate at work if I knew I had an unwell horse at home, even if they were being seen to be someone else,

Having nearly lost my mare to colic, I can utterly agree that I would be fit for nothing. Work will be there tomorrow, a sick pet might not be and I personally couldn't bare to think I wasn't there for them when they needed me.

Also God knows what I would include in a client's financial consent order whilst my mind was elsewhere. My poor client's would get shafted

 

[Alwaysmoretoknow]

How did your meeting go? Is all ok with you?

So have heard nothing and suspect that general opinion (from colleagues who are all pet and horse owners) makes me think that the boss has realised that they are on the back foot and need to reconsider their approach.

 

[Barton Bounty]

So have heard nothing and suspect that general opinion (from colleagues who are all pet and horse owners) makes me think that the boss has realised that they are on the back foot and need to reconsider their approach.

That is good. Here is hoping they will..
I am pretty sure there are times you have went above and beyond for them, i know I have so the courtesy should really be repaid

 

[paddy555]

Change colicing horse which you don't seem to care about, to child with meningitis are you going to attribute the same logic - that your emergency planning should be in place - good luck with that. I hope you haven't got children or animals. I'm not entitled to want to be with my animals if I think they are DYING, work can literally go to hell. Even though because I have an understanding manager it wouldn't be an issue anyway and I don't take the pee.
I don't understand how you seem to think it's ok for someone else to sort out something that you are responsible for. If you don't want to be with your animals when they are ill I pity them.

A somewhat nasty post IMHO> In fact very nasty as you do not know me and have absolutely no idea of how I have dealt with my horse's and their illnesses over the years. Totally and utterly no idea.

I don't have children so no point in considering the point. That is out of choice.
Not sure why you don't think I don't care about my horses or why you should pity them. I was in fact the breadwinner who provided for them. Many are not in the position of saying work can literally go to hell.

I take full responsibility for them. The decision as to what to do ultimately lies with the vet and the advice they give. I am not a qualified vet. I have authorised vet treatment many times over the phone from work. That discussion is exactly the same as if I was there in person. If a horse is in serious pain from colic then I don't even ask a vet to examine it I just say PTS now, instantly. I do however know my horses inside out. At that time they are in such pain they don't even care who is with them. Relief is all they ask for.

As for someone else to sort out something you are responsible for what happens if you are not at home, for example on holiday abroad. (I personally don't leave my horses to go on holiday but many do) or you have to go away for work to another location or a training course over night which I have often had to. If your horse gets colic in the evening and the vet advises PTS you are not going to be with your dying horse. You will be too far away to even think of getting home. The "horse sitter" will be the one with the horse not you. You will simply be agreeing with the vet over the phone and authorising PTS.
The horse that I had who had the quickest death from colic took one hour from the first pawing to the vet sticking the needle in. It is even questionable if I could have got home from my normal workplace in that time let alone from an overnight work stay.

 

[nikkimariet]

I was employed by a company a few years back where my manager rang within 24 hours of my own mother dying to ask when I would be coming back into work…

Needless to say they had little time for my sick animals. Some people are just dirt, I’m sorry.

 

[windswoo]

I don't think it's nasty - I think you opened yourself up for me to make an opinion on what you divulged about what you seemed to think was appropriate.
If you think that's ok for your animals then who am I to judge. I have always paid for my animals too so I'm in no different sitauation to you. If you feel it's ok to pay someone to sort out your animals when they are not well, then you do so, however I'll look after mine differently. My bosses know that I wouldn't take the p**s at work and so if I needed to go they'd let me. My emergency planning is I don't let anyone have to make decisions for my animals, that is what I'm there for. I've got people next to the yard that if need be can ring me if there is a problem, but I wouldn't ask them to sort it out for me. As I've said you do with what you can live with and I'll do as I see fit and if that is walking away from work than so be it. If you don't like that well I'm fine with that too.

 

[paddy555]

I don't think it's nasty - I think you opened yourself up for me to make an opinion on what you divulged about what you seemed to think was appropriate.
If you think that's ok for your animals then who am I to judge. I have always paid for my animals too so I'm in no different sitauation to you. If you feel it's ok to pay someone to sort out your animals when they are not well, then you do so, however I'll look after mine differently. My bosses know that I wouldn't take the p**s at work and so if I needed to go they'd let me. My emergency planning is I don't let anyone have to make decisions for my animals, that is what I'm there for. I've got people next to the yard that if need be can ring me if there is a problem, but I wouldn't ask them to sort it out for me. As I've said you do with what you can live with and I'll do as I see fit and if that is walking away from work than so be it. If you don't like that well I'm fine with that too.

you haven't explained what happens if you are away overnight or on holiday and your horse gets seriously ill and the vet says PTS. What happens then?

 

[windswoo]

I've had it when I had a poorly animal that died and I didn't make it, so I don't have to tell you what I'd do because it has happened and it left me in a very bad way for along time (it is 10 years this November to be precise).
Trusting the vet telling us that our dog was a drama queen and yet they were slowly dying and me not being there when they did die, made me make a promise that I would never leave any of my animals in that position again. My work place in which I have been at all that time saw what that did to me and I received nothing but understanding. I came to work the next day even though I was heartbroken and most people didn't expect me in and some tried to send me home - but what would I have done at home - he was gone.
This whole thread started because of how one poster got zero understanding from their manager about what could have been a life ending condition for their beloved pet in an emergency situation - I'm fully on the side of alwaysmoretoknow, because I've been in the position where I've lost a beloved animal and also saved one, so what happens - if I can get there I will turn heaven and earth to get there (and break every speed limit). If it is end of life and the vet is there I will trust my (horse, not necessarily dog) vet to do what is best for my animal, but if I'm not there OH would be.
Hope that answers your question and why I get so annoyed when pet emergencies aren't classed as important - they are to me.

 

[Muddywellies]

I don't understand outdated strict inflexible working hours. I'm very lucky that I work from home for council and my emoyers believe your job and private life can tick along side by side quite happily. And they do. Within reason I can pick and choose when I work. I mostly work 8 till 4 ish but it's all very flexible. I couldn't bear to be locked away in an office between 9 and 5. Sorry, not helpful but I'd be telling them where to poke their job.

 

[SO1]

My boss has been away on holiday for three weeks and her first day back and asked how search for a new horse is going. She knows I am going to get another one at some point.

I report to the CEO and she told me that she has to balance the needs of the organisation against the needs of the individual and it is hard sometimes.

Several of our charity trustees when they found out I had a horse asked how I managed the situation alongside work. I explained I was on part livery so having a horse should most of the time have zero impact on my work the only time it might be an issue would be in a situation where there was a life threatening situation where I would want to be there in case the horse had to be PTS as I would want to be with him during his last moments. They felt reassured.

Our contracts state that we must not do activities outside of our work that might prevent us from working which includes sporting activities which might be deemed as dangerous. I ran it past a lawyer friend who said it probably was not enforceable but I didn't mention I had a horse for about 6 months in case they started getting worried I might get injured or it might be in breach of the contract.

Thankfully my boss has always been reasonable but it is a two way thing. She knows I am doing everything I can to ensure I am reliable. Before she meet me she had never meet anyone who had owned a horse before or managed anyone who had a pet. None of her family or friends have ever had pets. This is all new to her. I have had to ask for short notice days off due to colic but other than that terrible few months during the last year of Homey's life I made sure I gave at least 2 weeks notice if I wanted a day off and no days off at all during our peak work time which is January till end of April.

I admit the pressure when Homey was colicing frequently and the feeling that I would become really unreliable for important work meetings was making me very anxious. Keeping the job was becoming more important due to vet bills which 3 colic calls out afternoon and one night amounting to a bill over £1000. If I lost my job and couldn't find another one I would be ok with my savings for 6 months but if I was also having to cover 12k of vet bills as well with no income the money would have soon run out.

I will be having a conversation with my boss when I get my new horse. She has been very understanding but I really worry if she leaves a future manager may not be. However I did have 13 years of horse ownership with no colics or emergency vet calls that required me to leave work immediately or call in the morning and say I was not coming in.

In my last job I got a new director he told me when he found out I had a horse that his PA in his last job had a horse and was always needing short notice requests to leave work to deal with things and it was disruptive. He had been at my work for 1 day when a horse on my old yard died of sycamore poisoning and I had to ask for a day off the next day order to move my horse to another yard that was sycamore free. That was the only time in the three years we worked together that I had to ask for a short notice day off so I hope when I left I had proved to him that horse ownership does not necessarily mean lots of short notice requests to deal with emergencies.

I was 15 years in my previous job and when I left as I needed a better paid job after moving on to part livery HR called me when they were preparing my reference to let me know they had done it they said my absence record for sick leave was remarkable as I had so few sick days. I did have to have 2 days off due to concussion when I was not allowed to use a computer or sceen for 2 days but other than that I had no sick leave for 13 years and had to take one short notice AL day to move yards because of the sycamore.

I have been lucky also in my current job to have not needed any sick leave apart from when I had bad covid when I had 2 weeks sick leave I had 7 days where I could barely get out of bed. I had just recovered from Covid on the Tues when I got the bad news that when Homey went into hospital for his review that his stomach was full again after his overnight scope and it was a ticking time bomb in terms of more colics and eventually risk of his stomach rupturing. Vet recommended PTS but said he would probably be okay for a few more days so I could spend some more time with him. I called my boss in floods of tears asked if I could have the rest of the week as AL to spend with Homey before he was PTS on Friday and appreciated that I had already had 7 days of sick leave and it was really inconvenient. She immediately told me to take it as sick leave and that she would tell everyone I was still off with Covid as we had a company policy of two weeks of paid sick leave with no doctors note if you have Covid.

My sister's work were also really good and she was able to get the Friday off at short notice to be with me and to take me home with her so I was not alone. My work also agreed that I could stay with my sister for a week and work from there and not come into the office.

We also had a staff meeting the first week I was back and I told everyone I had lost Homey and due to this I was struggling with my mental health so that everyone knew to be kind to me and that I would not be my normal sunny happy self. It is nearly a year now and I am still not back to normal. My colleagues are all asking about how my horse search is going. I think they will be relieved when I have a new horse and hoping it will lift my spirits. I don't think I have been a great colleague since I have lost Homey although I have worked a huge amount of extra hours.

People don't understand pet grief and the only way for people to understand is to try and educate. As a result of my grief I have been better able to support colleagues who have recently lost close relatives.

I think transparency is important and there is an element of being brave enough to be open with your employer that you have a pet and as most pets have to be PTS and it may come as an emergency situation you may have to take time off at short notice at an inconvenient time. I would also as a horse owner explain that horses can get this condition that is called colic which is incredibly serious and can be life threatening and if they get that then you will need to be with them as they might need to be PTS. That this colic is very different from the colic that children get. People may be familiar with the term colic with children and presume that in horses it is similar mild condition.

I would also say if you do need to be there for every vet appointment not just life threatening ones then you may want to avoid roles in medicine, law, events or facilities management where it might be harder to get AL at certain times. You probably need a role where you can clock in and out whenever you need to without it being annoying for your employer.

 

[Sossigpoker]

In these times of increasing awareness of and support for mental health, employers and bosses would do well to remember that for some /a lot of people animals are incredibly important for their mental health and therefore a crisis involving those animals could have severe emotional consequences for the employee.
Also , i thought as a society we were past those 9-5 working in office hours, so unless your job requires you to serve customers or take care of people ,.employers would do well to remember that times have changed and people have lives that would benefit from some flexibility.

 

[criso]

Our contracts state that we must not do activities outside of our work that might prevent us from working which includes sporting activities which might be deemed as dangerous. I ran it past a lawyer friend who said it probably was not enforceable but I didn't mention I had a horse for about 6 months in case they started getting worried I might get injured or it might be in breach of the contract

One of the US managers tried to suggest that if I was injured when riding, i wouldn't be entitled to sick leave.

I got some stats for them showing how many more injuries there were from rugby and football and cycling especially in London and asked if the policy was going to be applied to these too. Basic horse riding is included as standard in my travel insurance. Polo and polocross are level 2 but not as bad as Tai Chi and Rugby at level 3 and well below winter sports.

 

[SO1]

Great I do Tai Chi as well I took it up as a relaxing
activity when Homey died. However I cannot see how Tai Chi can be as dangerous as rugby it is very gentle and most of the people in my Tai Chi and Qi Gong classes are elderly.

One of the US managers tried to suggest that if I was injured when riding, i wouldn't be entitled to sick leave.

I got some stats for them showing how many more injuries there were from rugby and football and cycling especially in London and asked if the policy was going to be applied to these too. Basic horse riding is included as standard in my travel insurance. Polo and polocross are level 2 but not as bad as Tai Chi and Rugby at level 3 and well below winter sports.

 

[criso]

Great I do Tai Chi as well I took it up as a relaxing
activity when Homey died. However I cannot see how Tai Chi can be as dangerous as rugby it is very gentle and most of the people in my Tai Chi and Qi Gong classes are elderly.

I didn't understand that either as yoga and Pilates are included as standard. I can only think it's somehow got lumped in with martial arts like karate. You could ride an elephant, that's considered ok.

Joking aside using vague terms like deemed as dangerous is a bit subjective for a contract. Once you start risk assessing it might turn out that cycling to work on London roads or driving a car is the most dangerous thing you do.

 

[Caol Ila]

Our contracts state that we must not do activities outside of our work that might prevent us from working which includes sporting activities which might be deemed as dangerous.

Say what?

This sounds fun. I'd love to see their definition of 'dangerous sporting activities.' Riding? (I guess they gave you that one, though it can mean anything from plodding in circles around an arena to eventing)? Mountain biking? Rock climbing? Winter mountaineering? Downhill skiing? Backcountry skiing? Ice climbing? Whitewater kayaking? BASE jumping? Okay, the last one is a bit of me being as smartarse. If things go wrong BASE jumping, missing work is by far the least of your problems. I really hope there is a list. I have a pervese desire to work for people like that, just to say, "Hey, I'm going climbing this weekend. F- you too."

Which is probably why the world is a better place when I work for myself.

All of the above, by the way (other than BASE jumping), are statistically much safer than horses. Up to a point. Himalayan 8000ers are not, but Scottish mountains are. Free soloing is not, (and the consequences severe) but trad climbing is, provided you know how to set up a belay, place gear, and you're not an idiot.

A buddy of mine dislocated his shoulder while winter mountaineering. He wasn't doing anything stupid, but like with horses, sh1t happens. He slipped on a straightfoward snow slope, ice axe arrested, and his shoulder popped. Just landed wrong. It wasn't even an interesting hill. One of those roundy things in the Cairngorms. He self-rescued and got down to Ballater, then got the GP in Ballater to pop his shoulder back in, and he drove back to Glasgow. At the time, he was doing a PhD in chemistry, and the labwork required both hands, so ideally not having one in a sling. His then-supervisor berated him for 'being selfish and letting the team down' because he'd gone 'winter climbing.' (more like hillwalking if you care about these definitions, but still). How dare he? For that and other things, my mate told his supervisor where he could shove it and quit the PhD. Quit that one anyway. He found a supervisor in Edinburgh who was less of c&* and eventually finished his PhD there.

 

[HollyWoozle]

I confess I’ve not read the whole thread but surely this all depends on your industry and your specific role? In OP’s case I agree the boss sounds pretty insensitive or at the very least like it’s not the right job for the OP. OP, I hope you can find somewhere better suited to you and your lifestyle.

We run a travel business and therefore nothing particularly urgent and not anything that would put someone’s life in danger if someone can’t come in. The work is not time-sensitive in most cases or essential. Our two employees have working hours to suit their horsey lifestyles (office hours 9-6 but one starts 9.30 and one at 10 to allow riding and mucking out time). They can schedule saddle fitter, dentist etc in work hours if it has been agreed beforehand and they either make up the hours or take it as holiday time. In the event of a pet-related emergency they are not expected to come in and if they needed some time off if their horse, dog or other was PTS then I would not expect them to take it as holiday or make the time up. Having said all of that, they work hard, don’t take advantage of these facts and I trust them to do what they can, if they can. We all help to cover each other in any periods of absence to ensure no negative impact for our clients. I should add that we work in equestrian travel so being ‘horsey’ is considered part of it.

Do I think this is how it should be for all jobs/businesses/industries? Absolutely not, that’s just not feasible. I have the utmost respect for those of you managing larger teams in a more formal setting, I couldn’t do it. How to show compassion but get the job done, meet targets and so on… very difficult.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

One of the US managers tried to suggest that if I was injured when riding, i wouldn't be entitled to sick leave.

I got some stats for them showing how many more injuries there were from rugby and football and cycling especially in London and asked if the policy was going to be applied to these too. Basic horse riding is included as standard in my travel insurance. Polo and polocross are level 2 but not as bad as Tai Chi and Rugby at level 3 and well below winter sports.

I have to say if someone connected with my job, say school governors, had asked me how I was going to balance my home life with my work life, in the way that SO1 describes I would have told them that it was none of their business. Work cannot dictate what happens in your private life, so long as it is legal (and in some cases, decent).
As it happens, when we were both working, sister and I covered for each other, as far as possible. She could usually take A/L for routine stuff during term time and I was available during school holidays.

 

[paddy555]

I've had it when I had a poorly animal that died and I didn't make it, so I don't have to tell you what I'd do because it has happened and it left me in a very bad way for along time (it is 10 years this November to be precise).
Trusting the vet telling us that our dog was a drama queen and yet they were slowly dying and me not being there when they did die, made me make a promise that I would never leave any of my animals in that position again.

I'm sorry about your bad experience with your dog.

I don't understand how you seem to think it's ok for someone else to sort out something that you are responsible for. If you don't want to be with your animals when they are ill I pity them.

I have had around 15 horses, probably the same number of dogs and a lot more other animals PTS/have serious illnesses. Your comment above is uncalled for and nasty partly because you don't know me but also it was made because I had a different opinion to you.

So If those had been in worktime I would have been telling my employer on very many occasions that I was not coming in/walkingout.
My hobby and up to me to sort things.

 

[ycbm]

I'm spluttering into my tea at the idea that an employer can tell you not to engage in dangerous activities when you aren't at work. What next, mandating how many cream cakes you can eat?

 

[HollyWoozle]

To be fair my boss is my mother so she does sometimes have something to say about dangerous activities and my cake-eating.