I don't like the sound of this....

[SirenaXVI]

Well said Siennamum - was what I meant to say before the red mist came over me

 

[Tia]

Sorry Sirena but these people have barely any experience with all sorts of horses which is why they can generally only use their own horse as an example. They haven't had first-hand experience of stallions, racehorses, high-level competition horses etc. If they had then they would very quickly realise that every horse is different and what mamby-pamby stuff works for one horse wouldn't have any impact whatsoever on another.

I don't hit my horses (because this batch have no need of hitting) - if I need to confirm who is top-dog then I can make myself look "big" and threaten them in a confrontational way that they understand......however if I have a 1500lb monster acting in a threatening manner towards me and my threats don't work, then yes the next step is exactly what another horse would do......carry out my threats and make contact!

NH/IH whatever it is called these days is great for people who aren't very experienced and who need a crux to prove to others that what they are doing is correct - sadly it is these folks who have given, what should have been a good enlightenment for general horse handling, a bad name and lopped us all into this dreadful stereotype.

 

[SirenaXVI]

Yes Tia you are so right, and that is what makes me so mad, it's that little bit of knowledge thing again.

I think there is lots to like about NH/IH it's the spouting ignoramouses (sp) who make my blood boil!

Gosh I was so mad when I typed that last post that I nearly broke my keyboard

Edited to say
[ QUOTE ]
NH/IH whatever it is called these days is great for people who aren't very experienced and who need a crux to prove to others that what they are doing is correct - sadly it is these folks who have given, what should have been a good enlightenment for general horse handling, a bad name and lopped us all into this dreadful stereotype.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nail on head!

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

Tiaribbion - well said! I couldnt have said it better!!

 

[Salcey]

I agree with SirenaXVI, I think a lot of well meaning people confuse discipline with violence. I am sure everyone posting here is against violence, but with any animal, especially a horse, discipline is vital. Its a shame you seem to have to either be for NH or against it . At the end of the day so much is common sense, and a sharp tap with a whip is not violence at all.
Well done siennamum for mentioning dogs. Too many badly behaved ones around these days.

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

Very well said! I use a mixture, diferent horses respond to different approaches. If i were to smack rock he would probably die of a broken heart he just cant be treated roughly, but my old horse would just walk all over you unless you were tough with him
And you've hit the nail on the head there, theres a big difference between discp;ine and violence!

 

[GTs]

I never smack my horses with my hand - just kick them - I never saw either of them bitch slap another horse.

 

[Blackhawk]

[ QUOTE ]
I am with GTs and Sirena!

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto! And Tia hit the nail on the head too I think! J has bitten me once and I pinched him. He hasn't done it since!

He does however bite my OH, despite how many 'no's and raised voices.

It seems he doens't understand english.

 

[Tia]

Sorry for dragging this post back up again......but can you please find out what the concrete block wall is used for?? I am still totally intrigued as to how it can help stop a horse barging.

 

[Weezy]

I am presuming it tries to barge and the block it is tied to is of such weight that it stops the horse in its tracks?

 

[Tia]

Ye I guess that would work when stood still but most barging is whilst moving..... *starts to chuckle here* .... I have images of someone leading the horse in one hand while carrying a block wall in the other

.

 

[Weezy]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was thinking that the block would be attached eg inside the stable door - and when the door is opened and the horse tries to get infront of the handler the block stops it doing that - hmmmmmmmmmm however I now see a flaw in my thinking - need to ponder this some more!

 

[Tia]

If we are all pondering over it.....how in the heck did these folks come up with it?? We must be substandard mere mortals. LOL!!

 

[sleepingdragon10]

[ QUOTE ]
I never smack my horses with my hand - just kick them - I never saw either of them bitch slap another horse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry Gts but that made me giggle

I have bitten a horse on the ear before

She bit me,and without thinking I grabbed her ear and bit back,not sure who was more surprised tbh! She sulked,and I ignored her and carried on doing what I needed to do without any further interaction with her.I don't think she was scarred for life,and she certainly wasn't headshy/nervous around me in the future....but she didn't bite me again

 

[xXxTraversxXx]

I am with GTs, Weezy and Sirena!! Im sorry but this thread really has made me crack up

!!! Of course horses need reprimanding, otherwise they can be bloody dangerous!!!! A "firm NO" doesn't always work and I always think that a firm no is a good warning, but if they do it again, clearly a stronger punishment is needed.

*runs away in fright from wand waving army*

 

[vicijp]

GTS, what are your views on the old polythene pipe with barbed wire wrapped around it?

 

[SirenaXVI]

[ QUOTE ]
*runs away in fright from wand waving army*

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't worry GTs will kick them to death! I will throw buckets, Weezy brushes and I am sure someone will bite them for you

It's interesting that the poster who said she only need use her voice when her horse barged still has a horse that barges isn't it. Hmmm none of mine barge not even the colt - I wonder why

 

[SirenaXVI]

Oooh polythene pipes - brilliant for stallys - have not thought of barbed wire now there's an idea

 

[Weezy]

Poly Pipes are a very underused tool!

 

[GTs]

[ QUOTE ]
GTS, what are your views on the old polythene pipe with barbed wire wrapped around it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I am not really into S&M - I much rather make love all night!!

 

[Tia]

Oh dear GTs.....I am soooooo looking forward to meeting you in January!!

Let's hope it is all bark and no bite eh?

 

[vicijp]

I have a twitch made out of poly pipe - my horse would still be unbroken without it!

 

[GTs]

It is bark with the biggest cheesiest grin on my face.

 

[Tia]

My farrier has a twitch made out of rope and a shovel handle.......

.

Nowt wrong with polypipe - makes a great noise and doesn't hurt.

 

[Tia]

Phew!!

 

[peapod]

We use blue pipe on the 2 yr old colt - it is Brilliant stuff, can't praise it more; and I know of people who paint it black and take it into the show ring

 

[Sugarplum Furry]

Sirena, I'm not saying that NH is the only way, I'm trying to point out that kicking a horse for barging or kicking out is NOT the only way to remedy the situation.

If people took the time to do consistent basic groundwork with their horses, even in an 'ordinary horsemanship' way, keeping calm, keeping their energy down, rewarding good behaviour and ignoring the bad, there would be no need to tie horses to concrete blocks, or throw brushes or buckets or anything else. You just can't expect a horse to have instant good manners, it takes time and patience, and there are no quick fixes, even within Natural Horsemanship. It's all common sense, whether it's NH, BHS or whichever method you choose to use .

Gala (not waving wands or hugging bunnies)!

 

[SirenaXVI]

Gala, I understand what you say, and believe me I do not constantly hit, yell, shout and throw brushes at my horses. I do approach them in a calm way and ALL of my horses are happy, contented individuals, all of them, without exception. I rarely have the use the NO word and none of them barge or raise legs. Some have been more difficult than others but they always come through in the end, they are happy because they know the boundaries and if I have to slap them to initially teach them then so be it, however, I will always try the soft way first.

You are right, it is all common sense. Tia is also absolutely right in that it is the numptys without basic horsesense who shout the most about perceived violence to horses, they have just not got a damn clue and it makes me really angry (as you can probably tell

) Like Tia, I have no problems with NH/IH per se, most (but not all - i.e, v expensive carrot sticks etc) is common sense - it is the numptys that I have the problem with.

 

[Bri]

I would eat my hat if someone managed to stop my practically unhandled 3 yo barging them just with eye contact -

Any offers?

 

[Tia]

Just eat your hat now......