I give up!! Separation anxiety??

1stclassalan said:
Anna - I think I love you ( Mrs FirstClass is at the other end of the garden so I can say that!) you have the perfect recipe .... small steps and a lot of patience! I never went to my horses with a time limit!

O.P. your mare has inherited too much from her T.B. side - they're all nutters! However; if that's all her intake - you're not overfeeding are you! That would have been a midmorning snack for my girl! However I did exercise virtually everyday though she sometimes had the traditional Monday orf - ex school horse you see.

If you can work out a regime as Anna suggests - your mare will improve.
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Very true!
She's a very good doer, think the feeding and her overall temperament is the native in her. She rarely misbehaves for no reason, she always has a reason, unlike some TBs! She doesn't need a lot of food, you definitely can't see her ribs she's the right weight at the minute, not skinny at all, but not fat.
 
Wagtail said:
Why not? Any animal will get insecure if they just settle somewhere and then out of the blue are whisked away and have to start all over again. New place and new horses. In the wild, mares will usually stay with the same herd all their lives. They form strong bonds with others. Often, when a mare is taken away from her friends, or they leave her, she will form even tighter bonds next time around and will become terribly insecure and anxious when they are taken away from her. Horses that cope best with separation, are those that learn that their friends will come back, and it is not a forever thing. Your girl knows no such thing, as in the past, the friends have gone away, never to return. No wonder she is so anxious.

The key here is time, routine and stability.
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Because horses being rehomed or moved homes happens all the time, 3 homes in 1 year and 4 months is nothing compared to what some other horses have been through. She's very very quiet and happy apart from being left on her own, which i am now trying my hardest to stop.
 
1stclassalan said:
This is the kind of breaking that belongs back in the Bronze Age or Monty Roberts's father - when most people thought it was fine to be cruel to be kind - the horse has to buckle down to human desire or nothing.

If I saw anyone tying a horse's leg over a tree - let me tell you - there would be some breaking done!

I've not read a post on here that's annoyed me so much!! If this is the way you would treat a stressed animal....... I do hope you are reincarnated as one and one of them becomes your owner!!!
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I never said tie a horse's leg over a tree! I said to leave it there until it was resting a back leg - indicating that it was relaxed.
I said to tie the horse high so that the rope is hanging down from a branch. This allows the horse to move in a circle without getting caught up. It also cannot get the right pull to break away.

If a horse is fazed about other horses then teaching it that there is a life without others. They soon learn to relax. It is making them face their fears just as someone who has a phobia is made to face that phobia to get over it.


As for Monty Roberts father, by all accounts he was not what MR professes he was. He was renowned for being very gentle with the horses.
Read Horse Whispers and Lies.
Fact is that MR has been proven to be a liar and not so nice more than once.
 
WJT, the magnesium just seemed to take the edge off him. I used it just one small 15ml scoop a day for his first winter and it stopped him fence walking and calmed him. Last winter i did not bother with it as we were in a routine then neither the start of this one. Then Yo needed her stable back so i have brought him home to be with my daughters pony and its like going back 3 winters lol...anyway i managed to get over it then with mag and keep to a nice routine. I know my man hates change so this is awful for him, it takes time and hoepfully come summer he will have settled. You just need to find a rountine that suitsnyour mare...but try mag i have just bought a bag off ebay 99.7% stuff just to see us through the rest of the winter and hopefully it will just help him a bit. My problem is mine is a 17.2hh full irish draught and massive and knows his strength, altho not naughty at all, normally a gentke giant just a bit numb at times esp when adrenaline is coursing through him...happy times...not! Thinking of you!
 
Foxhunter, i sort of get u. My horse was being an idiot on the lunge, panickign as he could hear the pony neighing from the stables. I got cross with him and proper told him off as he was getting dangerous cantering in on the circle so had to smack him to keep him out on the circle on the lunge today. Once i told him off he was better and worked nicely. Sometimes we need to treat them like naughty schoolchildren and they do need disciplining. I know my boy will take the michael if i start saying 'good boy etc' so i dont verbally praise him till the end of a session but do rub him neck if he has done good work whilst schooling.
 
WJT said:
Because horses being rehomed or moved homes happens all the time, 3 homes in 1 year and 4 months is nothing compared to what some other horses have been through. She's very very quiet and happy apart from being left on her own, which i am now trying my hardest to stop.
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I am just trying to explain the reasons for her insecurities. I don't think any horse should have to move that many times. The fact that some other horses suffer the same, does not make it right. Understanding why a horse is acting the way it does is half way to the solution. :)
 
devonlass.

I stick by what's said.

No more horses do not rule my life but their needs are very important to me.

I work.Had s daughter and a life.
But I arrange it so my horses get the best care.

Often getting no sleep. ( I work nights)
Including being at the yard at 4am / 11pm.

I understand people have other commitments.
So if they can't do it themselves then pay someone else to do it or do a deal with another livery.
A favour for a favour.
 
topstripelucy said:
WJT, the magnesium just seemed to take the edge off him. I used it just one small 15ml scoop a day for his first winter and it stopped him fence walking and calmed him. Last winter i did not bother with it as we were in a routine then neither the start of this one. Then Yo needed her stable back so i have brought him home to be with my daughters pony and its like going back 3 winters lol...anyway i managed to get over it then with mag and keep to a nice routine. I know my man hates change so this is awful for him, it takes time and hoepfully come summer he will have settled. You just need to find a rountine that suitsnyour mare...but try mag i have just bought a bag off ebay 99.7% stuff just to see us through the rest of the winter and hopefully it will just help him a bit. My problem is mine is a 17.2hh full irish draught and massive and knows his strength, altho not naughty at all, normally a gentke giant just a bit numb at times esp when adrenaline is coursing through him...happy times...not! Thinking of you!
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Ooh i see! It sounds good, i will have to try it. It doesn't make them lazy does it? As i don't want her to be lazy when ridden!
 
Wagtail said:
I am just trying to explain the reasons for her insecurities. I don't think any horse should have to move that many times. The fact that some other horses suffer the same, does not make it right. Understanding why a horse is acting the way it does is half way to the solution. :)
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Yes i understand
 
I feel your pain! I have a WB gelding that i've now had for nearly 6 years. He is on DIY livery and suffers severe separation anxiety. I have tried lots of remedies - magnesium (didn't work) leaving out to get on with it (when he came - didn't work), turning out with company (didn't work, he is a classic bully very insecure but attacks anything out with him), he attaches to a particular friend and has a breakdown if she leaves but also stresses if any of his other stable mates leave him and he can't be left out on his own (think nervous breakdown & hyperventilation). I have had tons of advice and tried a NH Associate. Finally had a major break through last summer when I could turn him out alone and he would wait calmly for his friends to be turned out. His major anxiety is being left ie when others are taken away rather than him leaving them.

Unless you have had a horse with major separation anxiety you can have no idea what it is like to deal with. The only real answer (in my humble opinion) is to have a friend always by their side. I try to only turn out when others are out and bring in before others leave and when company can be guaranteed to be waiting. Forget them getting used to being on their own, they don't! I have found it to be a case of managing the situation as best you can.

Let me know if you find a miracle cure!
 
My sister's horse is the same she is also part tb, have tried everything, including leaving her to get on with it and nothin works other than leaving the horse she is attached to in the next field. No good putting a different horse cos she only wants that one! She also has to come in before the one she loves and he has to come in immediately after or she goes mental! She is 20, only ever had three owners who all treated her well and been moved yards four times in her life and has always been the same! Sometimes unfortunately it's just built into them.

My other friends nine year old tb is also as bad.

Moving yours three times in a year may not have helped but I'm sure if it's in her you would maybe have this prob even if you had stayed in same place for a year.

My lad was imported from Ireland went to one yard moved again a month later and then two months after that came to me. He is fine really laid back moving a lot hasn't affected him at all! And he is only just comin four! Each horse is different

I agree with attheponies unless you have dealt with major separation issues you can never understand what it's like, my sister's yard evolves round keeping her mare happy. Otherwise fencing gets destroyed, fields get torn up and mare gets in a real state

It really is all about the best way to manage it hun. You sound like you have a sensible head on your shoulders. Good luck :)
 
I can 100% sympathise with you in regards to the seperation anxiety as one of mine suffers from this (although not as much in recent years).
I don't think your horse is in too long although to stop her getting anxious in her stable (I know you didnt say this was the main problem) try using stable toys, turnips, stable balls etc and spend time with her when shes alone e.g. tie her alone to groom or leave her for 5 minutes then return, slowly this will help her to realise that when shes left someone always comes back for her.
I don't agree with isolated turnout but I understand if its a yard rule, could you possibly put another horse out in the morning in return for someone bringing yours in? Very few people at my yard go up twice a day and pay (either in money or favours) for someone else to do one of the 'shifts' unfortunatly I am one of those owners who would rather do it themself so I go up twice a day but I do other horses both mornings and evenings to help out. I also wanted to say well done for being committed enough (im assuming your at school?!) to go up and see your horse twice a day every day not everyone can say they do that. We also have a yard rule that horses arent left alone and certainly if a horse was upset someone would be quickly to bring it in, dont know if this is worth bringing up with your YO?
I do feel that having different homes in a short space of time will have a direct impact as when I got my boy at the age of 7 he had 5 previous owners and was a nervous wreck, you might find that time will also help so stick at it.
My only other suggestion is what made the biggest impact on my boy was when I got my foalie, they are stabled side by side and are in the same routine (although not the same field) although it can sometimes be tricky always having them in/out together. It keeps my boy happy and stress free, it doesnt pass onto foalie as she couldnt care less (shes quite the cool cat!), so how about suggesting to your mum to get you another horsey? ;)
 
attheponies said:
I feel your pain! I have a WB gelding that i've now had for nearly 6 years. He is on DIY livery and suffers severe separation anxiety. I have tried lots of remedies - magnesium (didn't work) leaving out to get on with it (when he came - didn't work), turning out with company (didn't work, he is a classic bully very insecure but attacks anything out with him), he attaches to a particular friend and has a breakdown if she leaves but also stresses if any of his other stable mates leave him and he can't be left out on his own (think nervous breakdown & hyperventilation). I have had tons of advice and tried a NH Associate. Finally had a major break through last summer when I could turn him out alone and he would wait calmly for his friends to be turned out. His major anxiety is being left ie when others are taken away rather than him leaving them.

Unless you have had a horse with major separation anxiety you can have no idea what it is like to deal with. The only real answer (in my humble opinion) is to have a friend always by their side. I try to only turn out when others are out and bring in before others leave and when company can be guaranteed to be waiting. Forget them getting used to being on their own, they don't! I have found it to be a case of managing the situation as best you can.

Let me know if you find a miracle cure!
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Wow, I think we own the same horse. Well, mine's a mare and a Shire-TBX, but other than that, EXACTLY the same behaviour. Right down to the fact that her company has to be in a neighbouring field, as if she actually shares a field with other horses, she attacks them. The issue is others leaving HER. Me taking her away from them for a ride is fine. While she has to have her own field, it has to have the right sort of geographical relationship with the fields around her. If not, she either goes completely daft and tears about like a maniac, or becomes the world's worst fencewalker. What's even better is that every horse at the yard has to be more or less on the same turnout routine, or she becomes the world's worst fencewalker. At least she's usually fine with horses going in at random times if their owners show up to ride them. Usually. Except on arbitrary days when she decides that she's not. I can't tell you how much fun she is to manage sometimes **headdesk**

If I ever figure out how to fix my horse's separation anxiety, her fencewalking, and find a way to teach her how to play nice with others and not eat them, I am going to sell whatever magical horsemanship method that is and get rich.
 
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Wagtail is right about the 3 homes probably being the root of her problem - mares in particular form strong friendship bonds and it can be incredibly stressful for them when they are suddenly moved.

I can only liken it to being at school, and with no warning your parents place you in another school, and just as you make friends and begin to suss out the timetable and the teachers, and who is in charge in the friendship circles, you get moved again. Three schools in one year - you might get a bit insecure and clingy with your latest best friend :)

Some horses cope when they move, some go to pieces. My mare has had 5 homes in 3 years, and has only settled here finally after 9 months. She still screams and runs round in circles if her new 'best friend ever in the whole world' disappears for a few seconds, but she doesn't try to come over the door anymore - thank goodness!
 
I feel for you! I had a youngster with separation issues and I was worried constantly. Grazing solo is so alien to horses and not ideal but if this is the situation you're in, so be it. If you could have company I'm sure it would make a big difference (sorry I've not read all the replies). The biggest thing I did for my youngster was buy him a stable mirror.....he loves it! And loves himself in it! lol

He's so much more confident now but on the odd occasion still goes back and stand with his mirror. Plus I was gifted a shettie for company, so now I have 3 horses. So much easier than having two, as you can take one out of the field and leave the other 2 as company for each other. Big peace of mind too! I hope think work out for you but definitely think of getting a mirror. Mine was from amigo mirrors and has been a god send!
 
WJT said:
She's fine at the yard, she just stresses at bringing in time, it's not like she's on her own for hours, half an hour at the most. I'm going to change things so she isn't the last one in. She also has to learn to be on her own, she's not always going to be with other horses in her lifetime so at her young age will need to learn that it is okay to be on her own for a certain amount of time. thankyou :)
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I have a gelding with severe separation anxiety - to the point where he once ended up being rescued by the fire brigade after getting himself in such a stupid tizzy that he collapsed, all because his best friend went to a competition without him. He had company in the field with him, and still got in a state.

In the seven years I have had him, I've learnt to deal with his problem, and he will never, EVER be left on his own on the yard or in a field. He can't cope with it, so it's not fair to put him through so much stress merely because I feel that he "has to learn that it is ok to be on his own for a certain amount of time". Some horses can't cope without other horses around them, that's just how they are. If she were mine I would be putting her out in a herd of at least four horses so that she feels secure and doesn't get over attached to any one horse, and I would never, EVER let her be left on her own.

The problem sounds like it's been caused by her moving so much and having her management so dramatically changed with each move. She's a baby, and a horse, let her be a horse - a herd animal.

You may find that once she's been in a stable and secure herd for a few months, she calms down and is confident enough to be on her own for short periods of time.
 
Of course its good for them to learn to be on their own, but the only way to do that is with them calm at every step of the way. If they stress when left it only teaches them alone equals stressful. It's only when they are confident in the fact they will never be left alone that they can have the confidence to take tiny steps towards being alone. If you take a mare & foal, initially the foal will be glued to the mares side. Then it will take a few steps away before going back to mum. And as it realises mum will still be there when it returns, it gradually gets the confidence to go further & further away, because its safe in the knowledge mum isn't going anywhere. If by contrast you took the same foal & whisked mum away for 10mins, then instead of the foal learning its ok to move away, you'd just reinforce the idea it needs to stay glued to her incase she disappears again. And I think with adult horses its the same principle.
 
It sounds to me, OP, as if it's your management that is the problem - rather than the mare.

None of my horses have had separation anxiety - however most have objected to being left in the field on their own if their mates are brought in (particularly in winter).

Get the management right, and your mare will be fine.
 
I feel your pain too. My horse has never been like this until recently. He's always be on livery yards with individual turnout etc and a fairly independent horse.

As he was injured I turned him away for a few months with a friends 3 horses. He's been living out with them 24/7. Now he cannot stand being alone. I bought him over to the yard to have front shoes put back on and he was calling to them, rearing, broncing etc. Put him in the stable and is became apparent that he was going to climb back out. So gave in and bought his little pony friend up and he was fine.

If I put him in a seperate paddock to feed him, as soon as he finishes his feed, he jumps back in to be with his friends.

I will have to work on it over the spring as I want to bring him back into work and he needs to be able to be alone again.
 
I am going through a very similar problem at the moment. I have had my mare a year and half. She was very settled at first yard, but I left because it was expensive and the hacking was crap. She lived in a small herd there. I moved to a new yard in the summer. It was brilliant, she was in a herd of 9 Horses and was ridden daily. I could hack her out alone and bring her in on her own with no problems.

The problems started when they moved onto their winter fields though. The winter fields are further away and are individual paddocks. However no one seems to turnout at this yard in the winter, apart from me and another girl. Her Horse is fine alone and is 4 feilds up from mine. So they can always see eachother, just never touch. This Horse comes in at 3, I don't finish work til 5.30! My Horse kept escaping, so in the end I spoke to the other livery and we decided I would turn her mare out in the mornings and she would get mine in. For a while it worked. But she was still very insecure and became a handful. She managed to escape last Saturday and ran into the other mare (I was leading her at the time) and my Horse got kicked. She has been in since. I arranged for her to go back to her old yard, but due to the snow I am unable to move her yet! I have a new moving date which is this Sat, so hopefully the weather improves!

I do like this yard, the hacking is great, its cheap and the Horses are all very well cared for. But my Horse will just not settle here so I have to do whats best for her and move. I am excited to go back to my old yard though, I have missed the people and my old share Horse. I am also looking forward to seeing my Horse happy and relaxed again!

I hope your situation will improve, but things will not get better by themselves. I would speak to YO and see if she could go in with another Horse. If she says no, I would find someone to bring in for me (suggest you will turn out for them in return) If you are the first up, they will probably love someone turning out their Horse, that way they can come up whenever they want in the day, knowing Horsey is out. If you can't then I would be moving. No matter how good the facilites and how nice the liveries, your Horse is not happy and that should be your main priority.
 
Littlelegs said:
Of course its good for them to learn to be on their own, but the only way to do that is with them calm at every step of the way. If they stress when left it only teaches them alone equals stressful. It's only when they are confident in the fact they will never be left alone that they can have the confidence to take tiny steps towards being alone. If you take a mare & foal, initially the foal will be glued to the mares side. Then it will take a few steps away before going back to mum. And as it realises mum will still be there when it returns, it gradually gets the confidence to go further & further away, because its safe in the knowledge mum isn't going anywhere. If by contrast you took the same foal & whisked mum away for 10mins, then instead of the foal learning its ok to move away, you'd just reinforce the idea it needs to stay glued to her incase she disappears again. And I think with adult horses its the same principle.
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Beautifully put!
 
One of my friends has a mare of a similar age who will get very upset if ANYTHING on the yard changes. No-one pussy foots round her, but her routine is kept largely the same and it works for her.
Horses like routine. They are intelligent and know what time it is. They know when you're due to arrive to feed them. One of mine will move to stand by the gate at x o clock. He KNOWS when I come, and if I'm late he gets anxious, and he's a pretty chilled guy normally.

A five year old needs company to gallop around with and mutually groom.

I'd try and keep her routine regimented at all times. Make sure she goes out when the others do. And see if you can get her an older horse to keep her company. One that will teach her manners and set a good example :)
 
Apart from the other posts which make sense, i would include mollichaff calmer in her feed and try to cut out the hard feed, even pony nuts can have an effect.
 
Hi OP- I tried to reply to this thread the other day but my computer crashed and I cant see it here so assume it didn't send! Apologies if I double post!

I have a horse (will refer to everything past tense as he's just retired to injury) He was kept at a DIY yard and was an absolute idiot. I work with race horses, Stallions, youngsters so am not scared by a difficult horse but this one used to become unmanageable. I started turning another liveries horse out with mine first thing- the owner had a school run to do first so worked for both of us. No one would bring mine in much as he was considered dangerous so id have to hand around for hours at the yard every night.
Eventually I tried sending him to a professional reschooling yard. They decided the only way to keep him sane was to keep him alone. After weeks of hell he suddenly settled and became the quietest easiest to handle horse going.....he also started dropping weight badly and went from being a good doer to having conditioning cubes pumped into him and still looked rough.
My final solution is I guess really drastic but it gave me a happy chilled horse so has worked for me.
I found a private field to rent and a little pony gelding who needed a home. turned them out and allowed them to get attached, Pony was the only other animal there so they quickly palled up. The pony is key here! Its never ridden- so never taken away. They are either in or out together (tho' I drew the line at stable sharing!) You also need a pony who is ok to leave! If my horses friend had called whilst in earshot when I was riding he'd go beserk!
Two other horses have since been introduced and they are ridden- This previously would have caused huge problems but he has his pony so barely looks up when they leave the yard.
In the 6 years ive owned this horse id never known him so laid back, chilled and fat! (on fresh air almost)
Like I say its an extreme way of doing it but im no longer tip toeing round him on egg shells waiting for him to go off on one or hurt some one so is worth it.
Cost wise tbh its cheaper then just him on DIY ever was. They are turned out so much more saving me a fortune in bedding/hay etc. The fact he's content means I feed very little and the actual cost of the field is over 50% less a month.
I don't think extreme separation anxiety is fixable but it can be managed!
 
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Littlelegs said:
Of course its good for them to learn to be on their own, but the only way to do that is with them calm at every step of the way. If they stress when left it only teaches them alone equals stressful. It's only when they are confident in the fact they will never be left alone that they can have the confidence to take tiny steps towards being alone. If you take a mare & foal, initially the foal will be glued to the mares side. Then it will take a few steps away before going back to mum. And as it realises mum will still be there when it returns, it gradually gets the confidence to go further & further away, because its safe in the knowledge mum isn't going anywhere. If by contrast you took the same foal & whisked mum away for 10mins, then instead of the foal learning its ok to move away, you'd just reinforce the idea it needs to stay glued to her incase she disappears again. And I think with adult horses its the same principle.
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Could not agree more. Much separation anxiety is caused by them spending periods all alone in the past. Easiest way to make a cling horse is leave it living by itself for a couple of weeks :(

I've had a horse with severe separation issues. I know how difficult it can be. He was always far far worse if she'd spent any time living on her own. The time she was best was when she lived in a herd of 5 other mares. She's almost 'normal' then.

Im frankly not surprised she gets so stressed that her only equine associates leave when she hasn't even got a single proper friend. She's got noone to groom properly, to stand side by side with whilst dozing, to watch over her whilst she sleeps. The amount of stress that will cause is phenomenal :( I read somewhere a while ago about tests they did with horses left on their own. They measured stress hormones in the blood (cortisol etc) and found that although the horse LOOKS like they settle down to a solitary lifestyle after the initial screaming etc, their stress levels are always high even weeks later :(

Im afraid she has made it perfectly clear that she's very upset about not having proper friends and Im afraid I think it's cruel to continue keeping her by herself. Some horses tolerate individual turnout but what else does she have to do to tell you she ISN'T happy? I don't think you'll get the problem sorted until she's happy and as stress free as possible.
 
I have a little mare here, on loan from a friend, she's a little dinger of a pony, but has serious issues with seperation. When she was still with my friend, it was his horse benny. now that she's with me, it's Joey. I made the mistake of loading joey while she was still in her stable, she came straight out over the door without touching it, and trotted up into the horsebox beside him. She's a pain at times, when catching etc.. she'll plough through you to get to joey, and Joey is totally oblivious to it. It's totally worth it from her riding ability, and she doesnt do it when in a lesson, the fact he is in her lesson is enough. She has it bad, loves our Joey. I have given up, there is nothing I can do, Joey has to be with her, end of story, and at 20 yrs old, she's not going to change. She latches on to some horse/pony no matter where she is.
 
Kallibear said:
Could not agree more. Much separation anxiety is caused by them spending periods all alone in the past. Easiest way to make a cling horse is leave it living by itself for a couple of weeks :(

I've had a horse with severe separation issues. I know how difficult it can be. He was always far far worse if she'd spent any time living on her own. The time she was best was when she lived in a herd of 5 other mares. She's almost 'normal' then.

Im frankly not surprised she gets so stressed that her only equine associates leave when she hasn't even got a single proper friend. She's got noone to groom properly, to stand side by side with whilst dozing, to watch over her whilst she sleeps. The amount of stress that will cause is phenomenal :( I read somewhere a while ago about tests they did with horses left on their own. They measured stress hormones in the blood (cortisol etc) and found that although the horse LOOKS like they settle down to a solitary lifestyle after the initial screaming etc, their stress levels are always high even weeks later :(

Im afraid she has made it perfectly clear that she's very upset about not having proper friends and Im afraid I think it's cruel to continue keeping her by herself. Some horses tolerate individual turnout but what else does she have to do to tell you she ISN'T happy? I don't think you'll get the problem sorted until she's happy and as stress free as possible.
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Again, beautifully put.
 
Yes, spot on kallibear. Mine had major issues from being kept alone from 3mnths to 1, & then getting company was determined she would never ever be alone again. And the only reason she is over it now is because moving away from the others was always on her terms, when she was confident nobody was taking her company away.
 
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