I just don't know what to do :(

[Ellietotz]

Me again...
Really feeling like I've hit a brick wall now.

To try and put it briefly, this is the timeline:

28/06/20 - She refused a jump and I came off, she stumbled over it quite awkwardly. This was unlike her so I booked saddle to be checked. Gave her time off.
15/07/20 - Saddle fitter came out and said the saddle I've had regularly checked by another reputable fitter for the last three years didn't fit at all, was the wrong shape completely. Got another saddle sorted. Gave some more time off as she didn't seem happy.
20/07/20 - Physio came out, found pain in shoulders, particularly right side.
22/07/20 - Farrier due but nothing noted from him.
28/08/20 - Lightly schooled her and she seemed happy again.
09/08/20 - Trotted up in straight line, seemed okay. Continued light hacking.
20/08/20 - Lunge in a pessoa (usually free school), no sign of head bob or shortness on both reins.
23/08/20 - Her knees gave way out on a hack in walk, no prior tripping and got up as quick as she went down. Couldn't see any large stones that might have caused it and she rarely trips.
24/08/20 - Vet came and said heat in knees plus SI discomfort.
29/08/20 - Freeschooled for a trot, very mild head bob, barely noticeable.
03/09/20 - Freeschooled again just to see her in trot, same result as 29th, very mild head bob on left lead only.
05/09/20 - Light hack, was full of it.
08/09/20 - Farrier found front right was bruised.
10/09/20 - Vet came out to do a work up again, no heat in knees present now. Thinks it could be structural lameness and/or arthritis in the forelimbs. She is croup high, long with short legs and 15yo. Started Nutraquin joint supplement also.
13/09/20 - Last time ridden, meant to be a light hack but was full of it again.
16/09/20 - Freeschooled just for a trot up. Still mildly lame on front right and short on the front.
21/09/20 - Freeschooled again for trot up, seemed to be extending more and head bob not present.
22/09/20 - Physio came out, really tight in chest and shoulders but was happy with end result.
24/09/20 - Freeschooled trot up, lame with a bit more of a head bob on right fore on left lead.
25/09/20 - Started on one sachet of Danilon a day for a week or so to get out of pain cycle if that is what is happening. Physio suggested this.
26/09/20 - Walked for 20 mins first, free schooled trot up, no head bob present and extending better, only had one sachet of Danilon at this point.
30/09/20 - Same as 26th but has been on Danilon for 6 days.

I have posted videos on the PSSM awareness group and people say she does still look short but looking back at videos from 4 years a go, she has never moved differently.
I have slow-mo'd videos to see if she lands toe first but she doesn't and she has been tested for cushings which was clear.
She is treated for pssm2, 8000iu of vitamin e, copra, linseed, salt, balancer, joint supplement and I've also ordered some tri aminos. She gets plenty of rugging too and muscles feel soft and spongy.

I just don't know whether to even ride her again or not. The soreness in the shoulders and chest have come from something. I have no insurance cover for any of it except potentially the knees but I'm not in a financial position to risk that and whatever it could be, I'm assuming the outcome will be based on management anyway as I wouldn't inject. She had her SI injected before which didn't do anything. She also has low grade arthritis in the low motion hind pastern area in both legs and a small bone spur in the left hock.

What now?

Advice appreciated.

 

[ihatework]

Nothings really changed from before though. Older horse, conformationally challenged, known orthopaedic issues.

Sounds like the Danilon may be helping but possibly too early to tell.

Without being able too see the horse, it seems pretty obvious that she will need ongoing help if you do want to keep her ticking over under saddle. And most likely even if she is retired.

I’d keep her on daily danilon and inject with Cartrophen and see where you are in a month.

 

[Tiddlypom]

What now?

Retirement. She has a host of issues, her ridden days are done.

 

[rabatsa]

Financially can you afford to retire her?

 

[Ellietotz]

What now?

Retirement. She has a host of issues, her ridden days are done.

This is what I'm thinking but she is so happy being out hacking.

 

[Ellietotz]

Financially can you afford to retire her?

Yes, I'd keep her for the rest of her days. I just wouldn't have a riding horse but that's okay.

 

[ester]

Frank hacks on long reins/mum leads him out as he enjoys it/keeps him moving a bit more/helps his hooves.

 

[Ellietotz]

Happy to send videos if anyone wants to PM me. I have them on YouTube.

 

[Northern]

Have her knees/fetlocks been x-rayed?

Regardless of how happy she is out hacking, she is a danger to herself and you if she is lame and stumbling. Reading your timeline, it probably would have been cheaper to have a vet out once with an x-ray machine to pinpoint arthritis/chips etc.

Bottom line, if you want to keep riding her you have to suck it up and investigate and treat whatever this is properly. All the joint supplements in the world won't help deteriorating arthritis, it's a waste of your money. If you can't afford it, retire her. Have you investigated financial help, such as 0% credit card or discussed a payment plan with the vet? Might be something to explore if you aren't ready to retire her yet without investigations.

It sucks, but you will continue going around in circles if you don't make a decision.

 

[Leandy]

Personally, in your circumstances I would retire to light hacking on danilon if she seems happy with that and you are happy she is safe to ride ie is not falling regularly. When she is no longer comfortable doing that or is stumbling/falling such that it is not safe then retire to grass or consider PTS. Please don't feel you need to spend a fortune trying to keep an aging horse going, nor on investigating in detail what is going on. With the changes and history you describe you are only going to buy a limited amount of time and it is not cost efficient. You aren't going to cure. Acccept her as she is, keep the work within what she is comfortable doing - and keeping her moving gently is likely beneficial - and enjoy her within those limitations for as long as that lasts.

 

[SEL]

I've seen your videos on the PSSM forum and she looks very stiff behind. I can see the headbop on the foreleg, but its the hindquarters that really attracted my attention because she has that wooden leg look so common with PSSM horses. I don't think you have a PSSM diagnosis do you? Just treat as if she is?

I would suspect arthritis if the muscles are soft, but finding the key area can be expensive (my vet bills are testimony to that!). My own vet put a small amount of steroid into the SI and we injected the hocks which both helped with that wooden leg movement. Depending on how much cash you have its worth a try.

 

[Ellietotz]

Have her knees/fetlocks been x-rayed?

Regardless of how happy she is out hacking, she is a danger to herself and you if she is lame and stumbling. Reading your timeline, it probably would have been cheaper to have a vet out once with an x-ray machine to pinpoint arthritis/chips etc.

Bottom line, if you want to keep riding her you have to suck it up and investigate and treat whatever this is properly. All the joint supplements in the world won't help deteriorating arthritis, it's a waste of your money. If you can't afford it, retire her. Have you investigated financial help, such as 0% credit card or discussed a payment plan with the vet? Might be something to explore if you aren't ready to retire her yet without investigations.

It sucks, but you will continue going around in circles if you don't make a decision.

No, I decided against xrays because it would only confirm what we think could be there and the end game of treatment was always the same with management, Danilon etc. I didn't see the point in injecting something in the front when she has issues in her hinds too so it would all need doing and I couldn't afford it nor do I feel it would necessarily work when it didn't on her SI. Danilon and/or supplementation was what I went for and the vet didn't seem too concerned about her in general as the lameness was so mild, he said he wasn't sure you'd even pinpoint the issue. The physio said the lameness was very mild too.

 

[Ellietotz]

Personally, in your circumstances I would retire to light hacking on danilon if she seems happy with that and you are happy she is safe to ride ie is not falling regularly. When she is no longer comfortable doing that or is stumbling/falling such that it is not safe then retire to grass or consider PTS. Please don't feel you need to spend a fortune trying to keep an aging horse going, nor on investigating in detail what is going on. With the changes and history you describe you are only going to buy a limited amount of time and it is not cost efficient. You aren't going to cure. Acccept her as she is, keep the work within what she is comfortable doing - and keeping her moving gently is likely beneficial - and enjoy her within those limitations for as long as that lasts.

Thank you. These were also my thoughts, she has many ailments, she does enjoy going out still and I made a rule in my head that if she does stumble onto her knees again, I'd retire her. I didn't see the benefit of xraying and confirming what other issues she might have when I'd still choose supplementation and painkillers.
It's just hard to know if I'm doing the right thing.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

This is what I'm thinking but she is so happy being out hacking.

In that case I would continue with the daily Danilon and light hacking. I would also give magnetic leg wraps a try - they might not work and there are plenty of people who will tell you that they can't work but they made a huge difference to my mare who had arthritis, several years ago. They won't do any harm, even if they do no good. I have tried them on other horses, with not effect whatsoever.

 

[Ellietotz]

I've seen your videos on the PSSM forum and she looks very stiff behind. I can see the headbop on the foreleg, but its the hindquarters that really attracted my attention because she has that wooden leg look so common with PSSM horses. I don't think you have a PSSM diagnosis do you? Just treat as if she is?

I would suspect arthritis if the muscles are soft, but finding the key area can be expensive (my vet bills are testimony to that!). My own vet put a small amount of steroid into the SI and we injected the hocks which both helped with that wooden leg movement. Depending on how much cash you have its worth a try.

The hind limbs have always been an issue with her too, yes. No official pssm diagnosis but she ticks most the boxes for it. Type 1 was negative, this was tested for.
The only places she hasn't been xrayed are the neck and front legs! Her hind limb suspensories were scanned and clear, hind legs xrayed which showed one tiny bone spur and very low grade arthritis in the pasterns. Nothing to show on the spine xrays so I don't know what is causing the hind end movement, I guess it could all just be pssm related. I've really got no idea anymore.

 

[Ellietotz]

In that case I would continue with the daily Danilon and light hacking. I would also give magnetic leg wraps a try - they might not work and there are plenty of people who will tell you that they can't work but they made a huge difference to my mare who had arthritis, several years ago. They won't do any harm, even if they do no good. I have tried them on other horses, with not effect whatsoever.

Thank you. I have got the Premier Equine magnetic knee boots saved for when I have the money to buy them. I must admit, I am sceptical and not sure if I would be able to tell if they work or not. Worst case scenario, I'd use them on my own knees!

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Thank you. I have got the Premier Equine magnetic knee boots saved for when I have the money to buy them. I must admit, I am sceptical and not sure if I would be able to tell if they work or not. Worst case scenario, I'd use them on my own knees!

I could certainly tell with my mare. She was on 2xbute per day and literally hobbling in walk, the boots were the absolute last chance, or she would be pts that week. She wore the boots for 24 hours, (12 in and 12 out) as per the instructions and *trotted* in, I could hardly believe my eyes! Then we cut the boot wearing to 12 hours daily, so she only wore them when she was in overnight. After a few weeks, we were able to stop the bute.

 

[Ellietotz]

She is also fully shod, is it worth taking her barefoot? If I do only ride lightly once or twice a week, I'm not sure if it's worth having a full set of shoes on. Or perhaps just pulling the backs off?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

She is also fully shod, is it worth taking her barefoot? If I do only ride lightly once or twice a week, I'm not sure if it's worth having a full set of shoes on. Or perhaps just pulling the backs off?

She probably doesn't need shoes but you might find that she does need boots, even for the field, depending on the quality of her feet. Going barefoot might make her problems worse short term, although would probably be better for her longterm. I would have a discussion with your farrier about this.

 

[Ellietotz]

- This is most recent.

- This was free jumping in June.

- This was two years a go to show she still moves the same, she is like it in all my videos. (I'm not the best rider so no comments please )

- Unless she is coming to say hi! The wood on the floor is to strengthen her back when she walks about.

- Or when she is feeling full of it, she prances around like this like there is nothing wrong. Albeit was May last year but she still does it in the field now and doesn't look lame.

 

[Polos Mum]

Watching the recent video's I wouldn't ride (tripping could really hurt her and you) but I would see if there is more to be done to make her field sound (which is v grey and very judgemental). For me, even on the 30th video (assuming second part with cloudy weather) she does look a bit freeer but I wouldn't class her as sound enough to retire.

Can you up the pain meds?

 

[Ellietotz]

This is also in walk:

 

[SEL]

That is quite a PSSMy action. Do you know how to palpate hamstrings? When mine is like that her hamstrings and glutes are getting tight. Danilon doesn't help much. Steroid into SI also helps - we think it's knock on pain relief for that area which loosens up muscles.

Is your vet on board with it potentially being PSSM? A muscle relaxant trial might be worth a shot

 

[Ellietotz]

That is quite a PSSMy action. Do you know how to palpate hamstrings? When mine is like that her hamstrings and glutes are getting tight. Danilon doesn't help much. Steroid into SI also helps - we think it's knock on pain relief for that area which loosens up muscles.

Is your vet on board with it potentially being PSSM? A muscle relaxant trial might be worth a shot

No, I don't think I do. She can be sensitive over that end though. Hates doing pelvic tucks. I'll speak to my vet again to see what he suggests and mention a muscle relaxant trial. Thank you.

 

[BBP]

Sorry, I might have missed if you have said, has she been in for nerve blocks/workup at clinic? Has she had suspensories scanned? What are her feet like? Low heels? Have you had a really good osteopath or similar? Do you do any sort of massage or stretching with her?

You have similar sorts of issues to me with mine, where it’s really hard to know how much investigation to do. Mine seems to be rallying bizarrely the last few weeks, gone from a lame shuffley trot to looking surprisingly good (relatively speaking). I’ll post properly later as I’m just heading out.

 

[Ellietotz]

Sorry, I might have missed if you have said, has she been in for nerve blocks/workup at clinic? Has she had suspensories scanned? What are her feet like? Low heels? Have you had a really good osteopath or similar? Do you do any sort of massage or stretching with her?

You have similar sorts of issues to me with mine, where it’s really hard to know how much investigation to do. Mine seems to be rallying bizarrely the last few weeks, gone from a lame shuffley trot to looking surprisingly good (relatively speaking). I’ll post properly later as I’m just heading out.

She's been for a work up at a clinic before but no nerve blocks. Suspensories have been scanned and are fine. Feet were xrayed and looked at on the work up and were fine. I have a regular physio for her. I do carrot stretches and front/hind leg stretches.

 

[Ellietotz]

I got her out tonight to do some stretches and a free school. She didn't want to stretch her front right leg again. I put pressure on her shoulder/triceps and she straight away resented it which means she is sore again and she hasn't even done anything. ?

- Tonight

 

[doodle]

She looks sore everywhere. Can you show the vet these videos?

 

[Ellietotz]

She looks sore everywhere. Can you show the vet these videos?

I've sent it to them. I'll see what they say. Her muscles feel really soft all over but I'm wondering if the pssm has started to degenerate more now.

 

[Goldenstar]

I am sorry to say that based on the videos I would retire her to the field on Danilon.
She really is a sore horse .
I would not spend any more money investigating if finance is a consideraction.
In that last video she probably would not meet the criteria of comfortable to retire that I set myself .
I am very sorry but sometimes you can’t make it right for them .