I just don't know what to do :(

[Northern]

- This is most recent.

- This was free jumping in June.

- This was two years a go to show she still moves the same, she is like it in all my videos. (I'm not the best rider so no comments please )

- Unless she is coming to say hi! The wood on the floor is to strengthen her back when she walks about.

- Or when she is feeling full of it, she prances around like this like there is nothing wrong. Albeit was May last year but she still does it in the field now and doesn't look lame.

She moves almost exactly like my old mare did (before she was obviously lame). She had a bone chip and progressing arthritis in her fetlock, and an arthritic knee (not that we knew it at the time, she helpfully fractured it after she had the chip surgically removed!). It's the stiff legged trot and canter that I always thought was her way of moving, turns out she must have been in low grade pain for quite a while before I started feeling her "offness" while riding. I probably wouldn't be riding your mare while she's like this, I hope you can find some answers and a management plan to keep her comfortable.

ETA: I did the whole supplements thing, magnetic boots as well. Did absolutely nothing for her and was a waste of money. Best outcome was after HA/steroid joint injections - but they only lasted less than 3 months. I did try again but she was PTS after a horrific paddock injury, so didn't find out how long the second lot lasted. She was sound to ride the day before she died, ironically.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I was thinking she moves like Granny horse did when she was retired and had made it very clear what she thought about the possibility of working again. I would keep her on the painkillers and just enjoy your time with her.

Video of Granny horse during her last summer for comparison. I was just about happy that she was comfortable enough in this video. She stayed more or less the same all summer, got slightly more uncomfortable in winter but still OK enough to keep going but I was considering my options for PTS before the next winter. Obviously she made her own decision there but still.... Granny is the white grey not the great hoofage who first appears.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

 

[Ellietotz]

I was thinking she moves like Granny horse did when she was retired and had made it very clear what she thought about the possibility of working again. I would keep her on the painkillers and just enjoy your time with her.

Video of Granny horse during her last summer for comparison. I was just about happy that she was comfortable enough in this video. She stayed more or less the same all summer, got slightly more uncomfortable in winter but still OK enough to keep going but I was considering my options for PTS before the next winter. Obviously she made her own decision there but still.... Granny is the white grey not the great hoofage who first appears.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

They do move very similarly!
I know mine would enjoy being out ridden still and she would want to gallop about everywhere. She still runs about in the field too but my thoughts are to pull her shoes and retire her regardless.

 

[PapaverFollis]

Mine had an expensive retirement.... she needed to be shod to be comfortable. Given all her other grumbles it felt a bit late to try and get her comfortable barefoot. I'd failed a few years previously with her so didn't want to try again.

Could you take her for in hand walks so she still gets out and about and you get to spend time with her?

 

[Ellietotz]

Mine had an expensive retirement.... she needed to be shod to be comfortable. Given all her other grumbles it felt a bit late to try and get her comfortable barefoot. I'd failed a few years previously with her so didn't want to try again.

Could you take her for in hand walks so she still gets out and about and you get to spend time with her?

Mine had been barefoot for 5 years in the field with her previous owner so I'm hoping it is still doable.

Yeah, that's all I've been doing, going for little walks down the lane or around the forest. Although the sod still wants to trot back!

 

[Ellietotz]

Would it be worth officially testing her for pssm2 so I know if or what variant I'm dealing with?

 

[Carrottom]

Just from personal experience- nutraquin made no difference but the the Cortaflex extra strength seemed to help.

 

[TPO]

Would it be worth officially testing her for pssm2 so I know if or what variant I'm dealing with?

I would buy natural vitamin e and manage her as a pssm horse but with a view to making her more comfortable just to "be" if you want to retire her.

I dont see the value in a firm diagnosis as even if you treated that there are still other factors at play.

Personally I wouldn't ride a horse who presented as yours is and has been for a wee while based on the older videos. She is compensating a lot with her movement and I dont believe that she is comfortable.

If you are considering retirement then I'd speak to the vet about bute/danolin doseage levels and increase what she is getting.

You've posted that you dont know what to do. If I was in your position I would pts. I've been there many a time unfortunately (& am still heartbroken about a particular mare from 2010) so I know it's not easy.

Really sorry it's not better news. Horses are heartbreakers.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I'm sorry but this isn't a horse I would ride. She is in significant discomfort.
When she's prancing around in the field, the adrenaline will be masking the pain - horses can run with a broken leg when on adrenaline- so you shouldn't use that as any kind of measure.



I'd say retirement is the sensible option here .

 

[BBP]

I'm definitely in a similar position to you. My horse was moving very similarly, very stiff legged and short striding, locked up through his back. I have a diagnosis of mild chronic PSD in right hind, and he has RER (a muscle myopathy different to PSSM) which I have always blamed for his poor movement. He has also been having trouble getting up from lying down, which was a huge issue, as it meant if I couldn't improve him then I couldn't even retire him, as he might go down and not be able to get up.

I don't know if I can give you any hope, as I am still going through it, but I can say that somehow, for some reason, he has turned a corner. He is getting up normally most of the time now (that I see), and his movement has improved dramatically, and is consistently good rather than on and off good.

Things I have changed lately:

Hoof boots with pads 23/7 to improve heel first landings and develop digital cushion, improve general posture.

Daily massage using an electric percussion massager with heat setting. Initial focus was on the lumbar region which was hypertrophic, but now I do his whole body, all major muscle groups, as he is using them all to compensate.

Twice monthly osteopathy with an excellent osteopath.

Red light therapy 2 - 3 times a week, focussing on his back, shoulders, poll and TMJ, and sacroiliac/hips, plus suspensory.

Feed supplements - added boswellia, Red Horse joint supplement, 1 x danilon per day, vitamin E, and recently gut supplements for gut biome and ulcers. Already on equishure for hind gut acidity. It seems like a huge amount, and I don't know which are helping, but he is certainly free-er.

Rugging - started rugging (even though yes yes he is sadly a bit overweight) and aiming for more warmth, so 100g at night now, and his Back on Track backwarmer pad on when I can (I LOVE this pad for back pain - I have their products for myself, its just trying to find a way to put it on for longer).

Exercise. He is on turnout and I am working him daily in hand, on long reins, focussing on opening through the jaw, making the wither 'bigger' (as in encouraging him to work really forwards into a contact without concertina-ing back into himself) and walking walking walking forwards. Working on straightness. Despite the suspensory injury he is doing a little trot work in hand or on lunge, when he shows he is feeling good, partly because it helps to reduce the ridiculous things he does when he is too fresh. Getting the back moving. If he was to have a day when he is moving tight again, I would go back to the massage, heat blanket, and just walking in hand.

I don't know which of these helps and which doesn't, but he has come a long way in just the last 3 weeks. I don't fear for him getting up, he is enjoying movement, he is back to being cheeky and naughty instead of dull and depressed. So for now I am going to keep going.

I still need more advice from someone on his hypermobility, and how the work may affect the suspensories, as his hind fetlocks drop a ridiculous amount in movement, but as osteopath said, the rest of his body needs correct, consistent movement, and nothing I do with him will be as bad as what he does on his own.

I don't think I will ever ride him again, which means I will not have another horse or ride again. If he is happy it is worth it. If he isn't happy we will stop.

I don't know if any of that massive ramble is helpful, I know they are all different, but she does move so similarly to him in that the whole body looks completely dysfunctional, and it won't just be one thing. Good luck whatever you decide.

 

[BBP]

Hopefully you can see the difference in these two pictures with regard to stride length, flow of energy, expression. The top photo is about 1 week after the bottom. It’s not perfect yet, but he is so much happier using his body.

 

[Ellietotz]

View attachment 56187View attachment 56188
Hopefully you can see the difference in these two pictures with regard to stride length, flow of energy, expression. The top photo is about 1 week after the bottom. It’s not perfect yet, but he is so much happier using his body.

Thank you for this. It sounds like you are doing everything you can.
Mine is on copra, linseed, grass chaff, Nutraquin joint supplement, 8000iu vitamin e, salt, balancer and have tri aminos on the way too. She doesn't seem unhappy or lethargic in any way, she doesn't struggle with rolling or getting up or even jumping the wood on the ground to come and greet me. I guess how do you know when they aren't happy? I'd like to think she would be less active than she is now and seem unhappy out in the field. She gallops over to me every time I get there and she enjoys going out for walks. I just hope I'd know when she really was unhappy.

 

[maya2008]

It is very difficult often to tell if a PSSM horse is actually lame, rather than just ‘pssm stiff’. My golden rule with my mare is that if it gets better with work, it’s the pssm. If it gets worse, there is actually something wrong.

You must also be aware that without work, the pssm will worsen and any horse that is symptomatic in work will become more so out of it. I made the decision when my mare was diagnosed that when she was no longer able to work, I would pts. I have a happily retired TB so it’s not about the money, but the horse’s comfort. My mare later had an operation requiring 9 months field rest afterwards. She was a shell of her former self at the end of those 9 months, no actual muscle anywhere, struggling to move comfortably in the field. The bad leg was better so I got on and rode. It took 2 years to get a sound, happy horse back again, and I still cannot use a treed saddle now as she needs to be able to twist her back more. She is happy though, and yesterday was my star hacking pony. If Bute will keep yours sound enough to hack, do it.

 

[southerncomfort]

They do move very similarly!
I know mine would enjoy being out ridden still and she would want to gallop about everywhere. She still runs about in the field too but my thoughts are to pull her shoes and retire her regardless.

I remember with one of mine that had arthritis, she would have days where she felt ok and she'd have a canter and a buck in the field. But the next day she'd pay for it by being really stiff and sore again.

From the outside looking in, it seems to me that your mare has had physical issues for a long time now and the number of 'good' days are becoming less and less and I'm not sure that riding her on her good days is helping any more.

Short of chucking a shed load of money at your vet, I think retiring her and concentrating on controlling her pain would be an option to consider.

Really sorry for you.

 

[AandK]

Sometimes the mind is willing, but the body is weak... Certainly the case when I had to retire my 23yo last year due to an injury, he loved his work and took a while to accept he was retired​

​

In your case OP, I would retire your mare and see how she goes on maintenance danilon. If she is still struggling, then I would PTS, she has so much against her. I really feel for you.​

 

[Slightlyconfused]

How warm is she in her rugs? My type 2, not diagnosed but vet and i agree he fits, has been rather colder and making him more stiff lately. However also given her age and no offence meant, her confirmation is not in her favor.

To me it looks like a mix of things,

Pssm not under control at the moment
Confirmation not helping
Worsening of her hock problem

Have a look at the back on track products. I really rate them not only for the horses but dogs and humans as well.

What i would do is look at tweaking the pssm side of things, carry on with the pain killer side of things, give her time off not even free schooling. Just stretches and have another look in a month. If no better retire, you can always walk out in hand for some fun.

One of mine has broken himself again, his conformation is shocking so it was going to happen. He will have the winter off and then see what he is like for light hacking in the spring. It doesn't help he is an idiot in the field either which is the place he injures himself.

 

[Ellietotz]

How warm is she in her rugs? My type 2, not diagnosed but vet and i agree he fits, has been rather colder and making him more stiff lately. However also given her age and no offence meant, her confirmation is not in her favor.

To me it looks like a mix of things,

Pssm not under control at the moment
Confirmation not helping
Worsening of her hock problem

Have a look at the back on track products. I really rate them not only for the horses but dogs and humans as well.

What i would do is look at tweaking the pssm side of things, carry on with the pain killer side of things, give her time off not even free schooling. Just stretches and have another look in a month. If no better retire, you can always walk out in hand for some fun.

One of mine has broken himself again, his conformation is shocking so it was going to happen. He will have the winter off and then see what he is like for light hacking in the spring. It doesn't help he is an idiot in the field either which is the place he injures himself.

She is very warm and her muscles feel lovely. She is in a 200g in weather between 5°c and 16°c.
Other than tri aminos that I haven't tried yet but on its way, there is nothing else I can give her to manage it I don't think. She has high strength boswellia in the joint supplement for inflammation too.
She is turned out 24/7 and the free schooling is literally just me taking her into the school, walking about for 5 minutes and then ask her to trot for 20 seconds so I can film it as I was keeping record that way.
I was nearly decided that I was going to pull the shoes and retire her but I just wish I knew what was best. Part of me thinks, if I'm walking her out, what is the difference if I'm on her? I know obviously she has to carry me but is 15 minutes that bad?
I know I'm finding it hard to come to terms that I won't be sat behind her little ears anymore. I just wish I knew what was best for her and worry that I won't know if she is in pain if I did ride her as she is so naturally forward going.

ETA: she usually does tell me when something is wrong. She won't want to be tacked up or she would walk really slowly to me when coming out the field etc.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

She is very warm and her muscles feel lovely. She is in a 200g in weather between 5°c and 16°c.
Other than tri aminos that I haven't tried yet but on its way, there is nothing else I can give her to manage it I don't think. She has high strength boswellia in the joint supplement for inflammation too.
She is turned out 24/7 and the free schooling is literally just me taking her into the school, walking about for 5 minutes and then ask her to trot for 20 seconds so I can film it as I was keeping record that way.
I was nearly decided that I was going to pull the shoes and retire her but I just wish I knew what was best. Part of me thinks, if I'm walking her out, what is the difference if I'm on her? I know obviously she has to carry me but is 15 minutes that bad?
I know I'm finding it hard to come to terms that I won't be sat behind her little ears anymore. I just wish I knew what was best for her and worry that I won't know if she is in pain if I did ride her as she is so naturally forward going.

ETA: she usually does tell me when something is wrong. She won't want to be tacked up or she would walk really slowly to me when coming out the field etc.

I would pull the shoes.whne my Welsh mare hocks started getting bad we took the shoes off and it did help.

Keep on the painkillers and see if it makes an improvement. From what you have written it could just be her conformation and arthritis catching up to her. Which would for me be managed by light walking and painkillers.

If she is like me which my arthritis I have a level of pain that just hums in the background and then suddenly will get worse with either sudden weather change or just because. I am in another set of flares which I hope new meds will sort. Its just a constant management change.

 

[Dexter]

By riding you are adding your weight to an already compromised body and with a horse that uncomfortable it would be incredibly selfish.

Some of the PSSM advice given on here isn't right, but PSSM horses do not stay in work as long as other horses. Many never manage any meaningful level of work.

I would PTS I'm afraid.

 

[Ellietotz]

With the risk of being shot down, I wanted to see how she moved after a regular half an hour hack tonight:

To note, we walked all the way back, tied back up to untack first so she wasn't rushing with adrenaline as I wanted to see how she genuinely moved after.

ETA: With a lot saying pssm horses are better with exercise too, I thought it would be worth a try seeing as they need to burn the excess glycogen in the muscles I thought? Anyway, I just wanted to see. We hack on the buckle and use the reins when I need brakes and we only go at whatever pace she chooses except for slowing her down! She was full of it. Ears forwards the whole time. This doesn't mean I will carry on by all means.

 

[ycbm]

That is a very different picture.

I wouldn't retire that horse, the one in your first video I would.

 

[Ellietotz]

That is a very different picture.

I wouldn't retire that horse, the one in your first video I would.

In ridden trot tonight too

 

[splashgirl45]

what a difference, she looks so much better, i am no expert on pssm but the hacking seems to have made her much looser in her movement.....you have a difficult choice , i would retire the horse in the earlier pics and keep gently hacking the last one...

 

[Ellietotz]

Also thinking about it, since finding out the saddle didn't fit initially, I turned the exercise right down, time off until a new one was sorted and physio then everything else. She's had more time off over the last two months than work and she wasn't like the first videos before this all started. Perhaps exercise is key or perhaps I'm in denial.

 

[splashgirl45]

whether you are in denial or not the difference was very striking after exercise, why not keep her on a low level of pain relief and keep hacking and get her fitness back to how it was before and then re assess, i can ubderstand why it is difficult when she looks like the last video, good luck

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

whether you are in denial or not the difference was very striking after exercise, why not keep her on a low level of pain relief and keep hacking and get her fitness back to how it was before and then re assess, i can ubderstand why it is difficult when she looks like the last video, good luck

whether you are in denial or not the difference was very striking after exercise, why not keep her on a low level of pain relief and keep hacking and get her fitness back to how it was before and then re assess, i can ubderstand why it is difficult when she looks like the last video, good luck

That is exactly what I would do. We often say people should listen to the horse and you know your horse well, so you should listen to her, too and she is telling you she isn't ready to retire yet.

 

[Ellietotz]

Quick trot around tonight to get her on camera for "the day after riding" record. The ground was slippy and she was only walked around for 5 minutes as a warm up before the rain really started coming in. She wasn't pleased about being out in it naked however! She has been out in the rain all day so probably doesn't help.
She was lovely and soft to touch, no angry faces and she let me stretch her front legs again too.

 

[Ellietotz]

Quick update:

I sent the vets the videos a couple of weeks a go but hadn't yet heard back. I decided to see how she would go in constant work. She seemed okay the first few days and looked looser but still not completely right although it seemed it was improving. Then after a week and a half of work, albeit with two days off after 5 working days, she just seemed uncomfortable again. Really unhappy trotting up on hard ground, didn't want her back legs stretched at all, every time I held her pasterns, she would snatch her legs up. Then the vet came back to me conveniently the next day and they've said she is bilaterally lame behind, they believe the head bob is from the back leg, seemingly the left hind they think is worse. As my finances now limit me with no insurance cover for this, they have suggested two months box rest/very small paddock, 2 months with a little more turn out and 2 months normal turnout then bring slowly back into work to see if there is any improvement. I haven't completely restricted her space, she has a full double shelter to herself and a tiny space out the front as I don't want her to completely stiffen up. I'm going to take her barefoot from next week too and start rehabbing her in this time. Hopefully this will help. I should also have the official panel results for PSSM2 back soon as well which will be interesting. I really hope she comes right. I know she had low grade arthritis in the low motion area in both hind pasterns shown in xrays nearly 2 years a go, I don't know if this has maybe progressed or if it's something like PSD. Her hind suspensories were scanned about 2.5 years a go, maybe I should see how much it is to do it again just to see, I'm assuming this will show anything up if it is PSD? Anyway, that's where we are now!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Why have they suggested the box rest?

IME box rest isn’t great for older/creaky horses, they stiffen up. I’d do it for a younger/fitter horse.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I'm not the OP, but this reminded me...

There are 2 types of people in this world: the type that turn away and see what happens, and the type that put them in the box and see what happens.

I've personally seen better results with the latter approach, your experiences may vary.