I think Swales Bits should be banned from the show ring.

[antagonist]

Why is this inhumane bit allowed in the show ring?

It has no place in a society that perports to love animals.

Why have the powers that be not taken action?

Are we allowing people's desire to win at all cost compromise the welfare of horses?

Two quotes from the Horse and hound:

1)EARLIER this year, a BSPS judge wrote to H&H, concerned about the use of the Swales 3-in-1 bit in showing and describing it as "an old cavalry jaw-crunching bit".




2)The Swales bit has become extremely popular in cob and hunter classes in recent years, but a leading show producer has warned against its overuse.

Jayne Webber, winner of the 2009 supreme horse at Horse of the Year Show, says: "The Swales us a very sharp 'elevator' bit, which helps to get the horse to 'sit-up'. This is especially useful for cobs, which tend to want to go on their forehand.


"They seem to be in fashion, but I only use it as a training bit and, once I've got the horse off its forehand, I change into another bit.


"You have to have forgiving hands to use it properly; you have to ride off the leg. In the wrong hands, it can make horses back off the bridle."


Jayne's words of warning are supported by judge and exhibitor Lucy Killingbeck, who adds: "I hate to see them so widely use, since a lot of riders just don't have the hands for it. As a judge, it can be horrible to ride a horse in a Swales which hasn't been used properly."

 

[flyingfeet]

Oh please !

Yes its a strong bit, but has no poll action whatsoever

Yes it does push the cheek, bit no where near as effective as a tight crank noseband to really push the cheek to the teeth

If you ban the swales, you should make everyone use snaffles.

 

[antagonist]

Why would anyone who is showing horse, which are ment to schooled to be mannerly want to use any bit that is in any way harsh?

I believe if my memory serves me right that Jennie Loriston Clarke was once quoted in the horse and hound say if you can't do some thing in a snaffle you shouldn't be doing it.

 

[Cazza525]

I have an awful feeling I'm going to see you at the next county show,hyperventilating,screeching obscenities whilst chained to the show hunter ring railings with a banner saying....'BAN TOUGH BITS'!!

Hilarious

 

[antagonist]

I have an awful feeling I'm going to see you at the next county show,hyperventilating,screeching obscenities whilst chained to the show hunter ring railings with a banner saying....'BAN TOUGH BITS'!!

Hilarious

Only if the chain is long enopugh so I can reach the beer tent!

 

[pastie2]

In my days of showing we used a very strange bit of kit called the Double Bridle. What was wrong with that. Good hands were needed as in the use of all bits, even the common snaffle. We shall soon get to the point where a single strand of barbed wire will do the trick!

 

[flyingfeet]

Why would anyone who is showing horse, which are ment to schooled to be mannerly want to use any bit that is in any way harsh?

Because its better to use a harsh bit lightly than haul on a snaffle?

If snaffles were the be all and end all you'd see them at high level dressage now they are allowed, but you don't !

 

[antagonist]

Because its better to use a harsh bit lightly than haul on a snaffle?

Or the third option would be have some lessons on learn how to ride.

 

[pastie2]

Or the third option would be have some lessons on learn how to ride.

You beat me to it!!!

 

[xloopylozzax]

thats the point of a bridle with a curb rein though- refinement.
especially needed for top level dressage, and for decent showing to a point.

the reason pelhams were developed (not the swales really but stands for the rest) is for the look of a double, but without the bulk in the mouth and extra straps.
i dont like the swales, as a training bit for short periods its all well and good, but that should be all. how long before we see liverpool driving bits or army reversible common place on the ridden horse.

not a fan im afraid.

 

[LEC]

Any bit can be a razor in a monkeys hands.

 

[pastie2]

Any bit can be a razor in a monkeys hands.

I know, but the blunter the knife, the less of a wound.

 

[rosie fronfelen]

In my days of showing we used a very strange bit of kit called the Double Bridle. What was wrong with that. Good hands were needed as in the use of all bits, even the common snaffle. We shall soon get to the point where a single strand of barbed wire will do the trick!

pastie, that is so right,the double was common on the hunting field too- all this ironmongery in horses mouths these days take away the need for good, light hands- both of ours go in snaffles,they are big horses with beautiful light mouths.that is standards for you, or the lowering of--

 

[antagonist]

Can the people who use them put thier heads above the parapet and tell us why they use them.

You must be out there!!

 

[pastie2]

Can the people who use them put thier heads above the parapet and tell us why they use them.

You must be out there!!

It would be interesting to hear their side!

 

[Silverspring]

I think they should ban all bits, putting a piece of metal in a horses mouth is just barbaric!

If you can't ride like a native american then you shouldn't be riding at all IMO.

I hack my horse with no saddle or bridle, I just use the power of my mind to direct her which way to go. But since she is a free spirit she always chooses her own path and we often don't get out of the yard. Not that it bothers me, the privilege of being near such divine creatures is enough.

Oh and with a name like antagonist I'm amazed anyone is taking you seriously, I know I'm n ot

 

[pastie2]

I think they should ban all bits, putting a piece of metal in a horses mouth is just barbaric!

If you can't ride like a native american then you shouldn't be riding at all IMO.

I hack my horse with no saddle or bridle, I just use the power of my mind to direct her which way to go. But since she is a free spirit she always chooses her own path and we often don't get out of the yard. Not that it bothers me, the privilege of being near such divine creatures is enough.

Oh and with a name like antagonist I'm amazed anyone is taking you seriously, I know I'm n ot

You have passed over the bounds of possability. There is a differance from scratching your face and tearing great chunks off it!!

 

[antagonist]

No risk that you will run me over when I am chained to the railings at the county show then!

 

[Sarah Sum1]

I personally have not heard of this bit. Good old snaffle for me. Although i did jump an old pony in a pelham and another in a kimblewick, but i was only a nipper with non horsey parents
But If this bit is being used solely for the purpose of working the horse correctly, then surely more lessons are required, not a harsh bit

Disclaimer: I know nothing, just wanted to stick my oar in

 

[Onyxia]

pastie, that is so right,the double was common on the hunting field too- all this ironmongery in horses mouths these days take away the need for good, light hands- both of ours go in snaffles,they are big horses with beautiful light mouths.that is standards for you, or the lowering of--

Not always.
Although I am also a big fan of the good old snaffle,some horses just dont get on with them.For those,the wide range of bits avalable is a GOOD thing.

I remember one girl with a lovely arab who would be a complete a**e in a snaffle,pop a pelham in and she went like a dream-rider had wonderfull hands and only gave into the harsher bit because she HAD to get heavy in a snaffle if her mare took off out hacking to get some controll.
Just one of many examples where the stronger bit was the better option,any bit will be bad in poor hands and IMO demanding every horse go in a snaffle is as much of a fashion fad as anything else.
The bit(or indeed,any piece of kit you use) should be selected because it is the most comftable and apropriate for your horse.

Edit because I forgot snaflle in the middle

 

[pastie2]

I personally have not heard of this bit. Good old snaffle for me. Although i did jump an old pony in a pelham and another in a kimblewick, but i was only a nipper with non horsey parents
But If this bit is being used solely for the purpose of working the horse correctly, then surely more lessons are required, not a harsh bit

Disclaimer: I know nothing, just wanted to stick my oar in

But you do!!! You have just said it all!

 

[Sarah Sum1]

But you do!!! You have just said it all!

Yes but this is HHO, there is always without doubt, someone to point out that you know nothing, so thought i'd get in there first. I think i'll make a dislcaimer mandatory on my posts , then I can get away with saying anything! MWAHAHAHAHAHA

Disclaimer, think sun has gone to my head today I'm in a silly mood

 

[pastie2]

Yes but this is HHO, there is always without doubt, someone to point out that you know nothing, so thought i'd get in there first. I think i'll make a dislcaimer mandatory on my posts , then I can get away with saying anything! MWAHAHAHAHAHA

Disclaimer, think sun has gone to my head today I'm in a silly mood

Have you had time to enjoy it then? I am far too worried about bits!

 

[antagonist]

Not always.
Although I am also a big fan of the good old snaffle,some horses just dont get on with them.For those,the wide range of bits avalable is a GOOD thing.

I remember one girl with a lovely arab who would be a complete a**e in a snaffle,pop a pelham in and she went like a dream-rider had wonderfull hands and only gave into the harsher bit because she HAD to get heavy if her mare took off out hacking to get some controll.
Just one of many examples where the stronger bit was the better option,any bit will be bad in poor hands and IMO demanding every horse go in a snaffle is as much of a fashion fad as anything else.
The bit(or indeed,any piece of kit you use) should be selected because it is the most comftable and apropriate for your horse.

I agree an range of bits is a good thing, and selecting a bit correctly for the horse and rider is of utmost important. And hopefully good advice is offered by professionals and more experianced riders.

There is several degrees of seperation (or pain infliction) between upgrading from a snaffle to pelham, to using a swales (especially with extended shanks.)
to control horses in the show ring. Show horses should be schooled to be mannerly.

Still no supporter of the swales but lots of picture of them being used in the equine press!! Come on justify yourselves.

 

[rosie fronfelen]

I think they should ban all bits, putting a piece of metal in a horses mouth is just barbaric!

If you can't ride like a native american then you shouldn't be riding at all IMO.

I hack my horse with no saddle or bridle, I just use the power of my mind to direct her which way to go. But since she is a free spirit she always chooses her own path and we often don't get out of the yard. Not that it bothers me, the privilege of being near such divine creatures is enough.

Oh and with a name like antagonist I'm amazed anyone is taking you seriously, I know I'm n ot

jesus christ, are you for real, or are you part of some cult----

 

[Sarah Sum1]

Have you had time to enjoy it then? I am far too worried about bits!

I always enjoy myself, even when i'm worrying

 

[Sarah Sum1]

jesus christ, are you for real, or are you part of some cult----

I think she must be joking. OR a member of the 'riding horses with mind power, even though they don't read minds and won't leave the yard because the mind messages are not getting through' CULT Suprised you haven't heard of it

 

[Persephone]

When I bought my mare she had been sawed into an oitline for 3 months and her reaction to me asking her to flex was to open her mouth, head up and tilted to the left. In this position I think she felt in charge.

My Instructor put her in a Swales pelham for I would say 10 minutes which was long enough for her to realise that flexing was actually fine and I wasn't going to force her head down with sawing and a grip of steel.

She is now beautifully soft and trusting in a KK Dynamic loose ring. We are both happy.

I think those ten minutes in a Swales actually saved us both a lot of discomfort and stress tbh.

So under expert instruction and guidance along with good hands it was very helpful for us.

 

[Ranyhyn]

LMAO if you can't ride like a native american!!


What with my baps out and paint all over my face?

 

[Onyxia]

I agree an range of bits is a good thing, and selecting a bit correctly for the horse and rider is of utmost important. And hopefully good advice is offered by professionals and more experianced riders.

There is several degrees of seperation (or pain infliction) between upgrading from a snaffle to pelham, to using a swales (especially with extended shanks.)
to control horses in the show ring. Show horses should be schooled to be mannerly.

Obviously,it was just an example of a stronger bit being the kinder option for a horse.
But you only have to look backa recent threads to see that most people do recognise the pelham as a potentialy "nasty" bit which it can be,just like any other.
Granted,the potential for pain and or damage is greator with stronger bits,but i have also seen many lovely otherwise mannerly RS horses with god awfull mouths that have only ever seen a snaffle

Regardless of the bit used,good riding is key.Think we can all agree on that

Still no supporter of the swales but lots of picture of them being used in the equine press!! Come on justify yourselves.

Sure they do have their reasons,but doubt anyone who does use one would be willing to come forward in a thread that clearly has anyone using one painted as the devil