I went to Haydock Races Yesterday

[cobmum]

I have not been to the horses races since i was 15. It was my best friends 30th and she wanted our group of friends to all go plus i think she thought i would like it as it involved horses.

I actually went with an open mind as i remember going as a 15 year old and finding it very exciting.

After seing the first race i actually felt really upset and could not stand to see the horses coming past the stand anymore. They were hit repeatedly with the crop which made me wince and some looked so exahusted they were about to drop to there knees

I couldnt help but think about all the race horses that go for slaughter and about the ariticles that i have read where known races have been left to starve. People infront of me were betting vast amounts of money which in most cases they lost - i asked if they would consider 'losing' it to a racehorse rehoming centre they just laughed at me.

I dont think that i coukld stand to go to the races ever again....

 

[Jesstickle]

I've never seen a horse finish a race so exhausted they look like they're about to drop to their knees. At the races you were at yesterday there was nothing over 1 mile 6 furlongs. I've checked. I find it highly unlikely any of the horses were exhausted over that distance. Especially when you consider Badminton etc are run over distances approaching four miles and the horses are expected to jump as well.

Of course the people betting wouldn't give their money to a horse charity. They probably aren't even horsey. They probably thought you were quite mad in honesty.

 

[cobmum]

Jesstickle - I was there are saw the horses with my own eyes- so how can i be wrong?? There was at least two horses that i can remember vividly that looked absolutley exhausted.

MY OH grandfather is a ex jockey and race horse trainer so OH is very familar with racehorses and even he commented that these two horses looked very weary. Prehaps it was these horses first race (i seem to remember the odds on one were 66/1)

Please dont question what i saw with my own eyes or my ability to recognise a exhausted horse, had you been there yourself then i could appreciate and respect any comments you had to make

Oh and i dont really care if people think i am mad it was worth asking the question as i was curious to know what the reaction would be.

 

[Ranyhyn]

How rude to say you'll only respect and appreciate opinions of those who were there! You should have headed this topic with the fact that only people who were there, could reply (or I imagine, only people who agree with you)...

 

[Rosie Round The Hills]

We all have different opinions don't we? A group of people can look at a group of horses coming off the track, and each person will think completely different things. This is what I think:-

Most athletes look exhausted at the end of their race - I don't think it's a surprise that racehorses do too.

They are trained athletes, they are fit for purpose, and they give their all during the race, so they come off the track shattered. Then they are washed down, rugged up, loved up, tended, cosseted, and cared for.

They are valuable animals, and the owner and trainers would both lose a lot of money if the horse becomes unrideable through injury. There is a vet on duty at all races, and the racecourse has a duty to prevent abuse of the animals.

And the trainers and jockeys have a lifetime of caring for horses, loving and respecting them.

All of that is why I happily go to the races for a fun day out.

 

[cobmum]

How rude to say you'll only respect and appreciate opinions of those who were there! You should have headed this topic with the fact that only people who were there, could reply (or I imagine, only people who agree with you)...

In my post i desribed MY experience of the races and commented that i saw two horses that were exhausted. The response was that the course was a short length and therfore i could not have seen an exhausted horse. Just becuase a course length is short doesnt mean a inexperienced horse could not be exhausted. On this point only someone that had seen this with there own eyes in MY opinion is fit to judge. I am sorry if you find this rude that is not my intention i just felt it was common sense!

Anyone is of course welcome to respond to my post, i was hoping to hear how other 'horsey' people have felt when they have been to the horse races. I actually posted on here because i was quite upset about it and felt guilty for going to be honest.

 

[Merry Crisis]

Clearly racing is not for you cobmum. I also find it hard to believe that the horses were exhausted, I wasnt there either but watched Channel 4 Racing, the going was good and as JT said they were only racing over a short distance. Perhaps your perseption of exhausted is different to mine

 

[cobmum]

We all have different opinions don't we? A group of people can look at a group of horses coming off the track, and each person will think completely different things.

Yes we do, i am not used to seing horse race.

I am sure the horses get treated like royalty and the care they receieve is top class it is the part after they cant race or are too slow or old that upsets me

 

[cobmum]

Clearly racing is not for you cobmum. I also find it hard to believe that the horses were exhausted, I wasnt there either but watched Channel 4 Racing, the going was good and as JT said they were only racing over a short distance. Perhaps your perseption of exhausted is different to mine

I think you are right, watching heavies plodding around is definatley more my style!!

 

[Cuffey]

Cobmum perhaps you could name the horses here or go to Racing Post and pop their names into search to bring up their racing history yourself

There is always a chance a horse is found later to be carrying a low level of virus
However if odds were high it is likely the horses are known to have a poor chance of winning.

 

[sunleychops]

what a load of *******s from the OP

 

[Merry Crisis]

I think you are right, watching heavies plodding around is definatley more my style!!

Lol! I thought so!

 

[Allover]

Just a few points to make,

1, Jesstickle - i seem to remember that the horses finishing the Grand National this year were not in too good shape at the end. And there is no way you can compare an 8yr old doing badmington to a 2-3yr old racing

2, Jackyandrosie - Humans have the choice on how far they push themselves when competing horses dont, it is down to the jockeys and trainers to bring their horses home in good form. As for the comment that all these horses are "loved up, cosseted and cared for" is, IME of racing yards, not strictly true. I have visited horses who were expected to run with sores the size of saucers on their backs, very unlevel and one time (my personal favourite) with a star fracture to the shoulder. This was in 2 of the "top" yards in Newmarket. I also feel the need to point out that when i have been racing i always make a point of watching the horses in the parade ring, i have, on many an occasion, seen rough or inexperienced handlers

I also have the pleasure when staying with my brother, to watch endless hours of racing on the TV, after reading through the debates on here regarding whipping of the horses etc i have to say that i think it should be banned altogether for flat racing (from what i saw more often than not it has the effect of causing the horse to back off rather than stick its head down and go on) and needs to far more tightly regulated in jump racing.

All this said, i do not want to see racing banned i just refuse to see it through rose tinted spectacles

 

[MurphysMinder]

OP in your first post you say some looked so exhausted, as if it was quite a few, and then go on to clarify it was only 2. I have seen horses finish racing (usually pt to pts) looking absolutely knackered, but within a few minutes they are absolutely fine. I have also seen grossly unfit ponies finishing fun rides in a far worse condition, and without the same fast recovery.
There is always a high vet presence at race meetings, usually at least 3 in the parade ring and horses that aren't fit to race are generally spotted. I'm not sure if the horse with a star fracture you refer to Allover had already been x rayed and was run despite that, or if it was diagnosed after. I am quite surprised it was able to run as our pony had a star fracture and couldnt weight bear on the leg at all.
It is your choice not to enjoy racing, but plenty of others do, and I wouldn't assume that everyone betting would not support a horse charity. As jesstickle says many people there are not in the least horsey, but there would also have been plenty who do support horse charities and have horses at home.

 

[Cuppatea]

[/COLOR]

Just a few points to make,

1, Jesstickle - i seem to remember that the horses finishing the Grand National this year were not in too good shape at the end. And there is no way you can compare an 8yr old doing badmington to a 2-3yr old racing
2-3yr olds dont race in the grand national and this year in the GN the horses were taken straight away because of the HEAT. You can compare eventers and racing as it is all down to endurance and fitness.

2, Jackyandrosie - Humans have the choice on how far they push themselves when competing horses dont, it is down to the jockeys and trainers to bring their horses home in good form. As for the comment that all these horses are "loved up, cosseted and cared for" is, IME of racing yards, not strictly true. I have visited horses who were expected to run with sores the size of saucers on their backs, very unlevel and one time (my personal favourite) with a star fracture to the shoulder. This was in 2 of the "top" yards in Newmarket. I also feel the need to point out that when i have been racing i always make a point of watching the horses in the parade ring, i have, on many an occasion, seen rough or inexperienced handlers
Horses can and do have a choice to race or not. there are plenty of horses that refuse to start or dont try half way through.Most of these horses are found out t home so dont go to the track - its only the ones who enjoy racing that you see at the track. If the horses dont enjoy it, why do you see loose horses running with the others, usually leading them round and in NH jumping the jump on their own accord?
I also have the pleasure when staying with my brother, to watch endless hours of racing on the TV, after reading through the debates on here regarding whipping of the horses etc i have to say that i think it should be banned altogether for flat racing (from what i saw more often than not it has the effect of causing the horse to back off rather than stick its head down and go on) and needs to far more tightly regulated in jump racing.
Hve ytou ever seen a race whip? They are so padded it is near impossible to hurt anything with them.Try one and see.
All this said, i do not want to see racing banned i just refuse to see it through rose tinted spectacles

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[cobmum]

what a load of from the OP

Wow didnt expect this, why such nastiness!!

I posted because i was genrally upset i didnt like horses being repeatedly hit with a crop and seing two horses with very large odds finished looking exhausted. What is *******s about that may i ask?

Oh and just spoke to OH grandfather who was a jockey and became a racehorse trainer and he said 'Darling racing isnt for you, it wasnt for me too but i didnt know anything else. I wish i could tell you horses dont suffer but i cant it would be lying'

 

[Allover]

[/COLOR]

I KNOW horses do not jump race at 2 -3 and i am fully aware that racing and eventing come down to endurance and fitness but IMO you cannot compare young racing horses to the more mature horses taht are going round Badminton.

The horse that won the GN this year was whipped to within an inch of its life by a jockey who has aready, i believe, been banned this year for over use of the whip, the weather is no excuse for nearly killing an animal.

Horses, IMO, carry on racing when the jockey performs an involuntary dismount due to their "herd mentality", i appreciate that there are exceptions but from watching racing i also see an awfull lot of these horses not jumping with the herd but going round the fences. I will also point out that there are occasions when it takes many men with blindfolds, ropes etc to get these horses into the stalls.

IF these whips really do not hurt then where is the need to have them in racing?
Personally i will only try a whip out that may sting a little

 

[Changes]

Wow didnt expect this, why such nastiness!!

I posted because i was genrally upset i didnt like horses being repeatedly hit with a crop and seing two horses with very large odds finished looking exhausted. What is *******s about that may i ask?

Oh and just spoke to OH grandfather who was a jockey and became a racehorse trainer and he said 'Darling racing isnt for you, it wasnt for me too but i didnt know anything else. I wish i could tell you horses dont suffer but i cant it would be lying'

Racing will have come a very long way since your OH's grandfather was riding. As have all other horse sports.

I watched Haydock on RUK yesterday. I didn't see what you saw? Which horses suffered, or which race at least, I'd like to look at the races again to see if I can understand your viewpoint?

 

[Allover]

I'm not sure if the horse with a star fracture you refer to Allover had already been x rayed and was run despite that, or if it was diagnosed after. I am quite surprised it was able to run as our pony had a star fracture and couldnt weight bear on the leg at all.

The horse i am refering to was in training and due to run the following week, the owner got me in to look at it and i found the horse to be in obvious discomfort and beyond my level of assistance, i spoke with the owner who asked the trainer to get a vet to look at it and then the injury was found. She was in full race training and would no doubt still have run had the mare not been checked over by a "neutral" person.

 

[Puddock]

I was at Musselburgh yesterday (also a flat meeting). All I saw was horses that thoroughly enjoyed their work. If they dislike racing and being "exhausted" so much, why do so many get so thoroughly over-excited in the paddock before going down to the start? They know what's coming and they can't contain themselves. Racing is in the very blood of tbs.

Yesterday was super-exciting for me: as we were guests of the sponsor, we were asked to choose best turned-out for a couple of races. As the only member of our group who allegedly knows anything about horses (hah!) I got to do it. It was incredibly hard - I was surrounded by incredibly fit, well-presented animals who had been groomed to perfection. In the end I picked a grey for one race, as I remembered reading somewhere that their lads and lasses don't often win the prize as you can't get a shine on them like you can with bays and chestnuts. And his plaits were so neat! Awesome day, I don't expect to get the chance to be in the paddock again, unless ever achieve my dream of owning an nh horse.

 

[Changes]

I KNOW horses do not jump race at 2 -3 and i am fully aware that racing and eventing come down to endurance and fitness but IMO you cannot compare young racing horses to the more mature horses taht are going round Badminton.

The horse that won the GN this year was whipped to within an inch of its life by a jockey who has aready, i believe, been banned this year for over use of the whip, the weather is no excuse for nearly killing an animal.

Horses, IMO, carry on racing when the jockey performs an involuntary dismount due to their "herd mentality", i appreciate that there are exceptions but from watching racing i also see an awfull lot of these horses not jumping with the herd but going round the fences. I will also point out that there are occasions when it takes many men with blindfolds, ropes etc to get these horses into the stalls.

IF these whips really do not hurt then where is the need to have them in racing?
Personally i will only try a whip out that may sting a little

Horses that run in the GN can be compared to event horses. They are similar ages, in the main, and both follow strong fittening programmes.

Ballabriggs was not 'whipped within an inch of his life'. Emotive nonsense doesn't make an argument.

Reluctance to go into stalls is only to do with excitement and some claustrophobia, nothing to do with not wanting to race.

Horses react to dressage whips and spurs - they're not cruel correctly used, why are race whips different?

 

[cobmum]

Racing will have come a very long way since your OH's grandfather was riding. As have all other horse sports.

I watched Haydock on RUK yesterday. I didn't see what you saw? Which horses suffered, or which race at least, I'd like to look at the races again to see if I can understand your viewpoint?

I did not say any horses at Haydock suffered i said that 2 looked exhaused and my OH commented they looked 'weary' and i didnt like to see this and it made me feel upset, i also didnt like to see the horses were repeateadly hit with the crop. Sorry i dont know what specific races they were as it was my friends 30th birthday so she was my main priorty.

 

[Changes]

I did not say any horses at Haydock suffered i said that 2 looked exhaused and my OH commented they looked 'weary' and i didnt like to see this and it made me feel upset THATS ALL. Sorry i dont know what specific races they were.

So which ones looked exhausted and were whipped excessively? If they were, then the vets or stewards should have acted. Surely you can remember which race if it was so bad?

 

[Allover]

Horses that run in the GN can be compared to event horses. They are similar ages, in the main, and both follow strong fittening programmes.

Ballabriggs was not 'whipped within an inch of his life'. Emotive nonsense doesn't make an argument.

Reluctance to go into stalls is only to do with excitement and some claustrophobia, nothing to do with not wanting to race.

Horses react to dressage whips and spurs - they're not cruel correctly used, why are race whips different?

I did not say that you can not compare GN horses to Event horses i said you cannot compare young racers to event horses.

How many times was Ballabrigs hit then coming up to the line, and did the horse not need to receive IMMEDIATE medical intervention to prevent it from collapsing from oxygen starvation? It is not emotive nonsense it is fact and please do not tell me it was because the weather was unseasonably warm it was because the horse was pushed beyond its level of fitness by its jockey whipping it.

So reluctance to go into stalls is never about the horse not actually wanting to race, have you asked them?

 

[cobmum]

So which ones looked exhausted and were whipped excessively? If they were, then the vets or stewards should have acted. Surely you can remember which race if it was so bad?

I have not posted that horses were excessively whipped i posted that i didnt like to see them repeatdley hit with a crop- this upset me. I am sure what the jockeys did is not against any racing rules or regulations but i didnt like to see it personally.

As i have said i dont know what specifc races the horses were in. I didnt bet so had no interest in the actualy race information i saw the horses from the rail around the track before spending the majority of the rest of my time celebrating with friends in one the bars.

I am sure there are many on here that would not feel the way i did whilst i was there. Prehaps i am a bit soft prehaps i am too emotional prehaps i am too sensitive but we are all different and i dont see this as a bad thing.

 

[Pale Rider]

I was at Musselburgh yesterday (also a flat meeting). All I saw was horses that thoroughly enjoyed their work. If they dislike racing and being "exhausted" so much, why do so many get so thoroughly over-excited in the paddock before going down to the start? They know what's coming and they can't contain themselves. Racing is in the very blood of tbs.

Out of their heads with corn and a chance to get out of a stable more likely.

 

[Changes]

I did not say that you can not compare GN horses to Event horses i said you cannot compare young racers to event horses.

How many times was Ballabrigs hit then coming up to the line, and did the horse not need to receive IMMEDIATE medical intervention to prevent it from collapsing from oxygen starvation? It is not emotive nonsense it is fact and please do not tell me it was because the weather was unseasonably warm it was because the horse was pushed beyond its level of fitness by its jockey whipping it.

Right - so the weather had nothing to do with it, running over 4 and a half miles in heat?

Of course it's emotive nonsense using the whipped to within an inch of its life phrase. Some racehorses regularly need oxygen after running, and more commonly in hot weather. You are linking the whip to something that had nothing to do with the whip.

So reluctance to go into stalls is never about the horse not actually wanting to race, have you asked them?

Nope - have you?

Although I have worked with teaching them to go in and out of stalls - and the claustrophobia is the key.

 

[Pale Rider]

Why would anyone even contemplate running a horse if the weather made it likely to need oxygen?

 

[Pale Rider]

The stall problem is 'What happens, before what happens.'



'claustrophobia' is rubbish, they don't want to go in, because of what happens when they come out.

 

[Changes]

Why would anyone even contemplate running a horse if the weather made it likely to need oxygen?

Are you serious - all equine events continue in unseasonal weather, unless it's too poor underfoot for the emergency vehicles - why should racing be different?