I'm cross - A Rant!

[Hullabaloo]

To try and keep this brief - I entered an unaffiliated combined training a couple of weeks ago and a professional eventer had 2 horses in my class. I assumed they were youngsters out for experience and didn't think anything of it but I got suspicious in the warm up at the height of the fences she was jumping. When I got home I looked up their eventing records and found they were both currently competing at novice and one had completed an intermediate the previous weekend. I thought that was a bit unsportsmanlike and while still cross wrote a letter to Horse and Hound and sent it off.

I got a text from someone on my yard yesterday to say it was printed and went to have a look. When I read the editor's at the bottom of my letter about professional riders having to take young horses out and the competition being open to all I was very cross

Of course they have to take youngsters out and I made it clear in my letter that I accepted the class was open to all - that was never my issue. I was suggesting it wasn't in the spirit of things to compete experienced, successful horses in competitions way below the level at which they normally compete. I've e-mailed them again to express my views.

I've never written to a newspaper of magazine before and am now worried I'm turning into angry of Wiltshire

Anyway, for anyone who is interested (and just to make me feel better) here is the unedited version of my letter!

"Dear Editor

Are times really so hard for our professional riders that they are reduced to seeking easy pickings at local unaffiliated events?

This weekend I was competing in unaffiliated combined training at my local equestrian centre. The event itself was very well run and enjoyable, but left a bit of a sour taste because a professional eventer had entered 2 horses in my class and another 2 in the one of the other classes. I initially assumed that the horses were youngsters out for a bit of experience but when I got home out of curiosity I looked up their competition records.

I was rather stunned to discover that the 2 horses entered in my class (pre-novice dressage + 85cm show jumping) were both regularly competing at novice and one had recently completed an intermediate event. One of the horses entered in the first class (intro dressage and 65cm show jumping) had competed at pre-novice level, albeit last year and with a different rider. Needless to say, this rider was placed first and second in both the classes they entered, winning my class by a large margin (I didn’t see the scores for the first class).

Now, while I accept that this was not against the rules as the competition was open for all to enter, surely it is not in the spirit of the event and in my eyes it displays a distinct lack of sportsmanship. I’m sure the rider had their reasons for competing at this level, but wouldn’t it have been fairer on the other competitors if they had entered HC?

As an amateur with limited opportunities to compete, it is very disheartening to enter an event such as this, only to find myself competing against a professional rider with horses already performing successfully at a considerably higher level in affiliated competition. At this particular event, I was well out of the running, but I did feel for the people who just lost out on a prize as we were simply not competing on a level playing field.

I don’t know if this is an isolated case, or whether it is common practice amongst professional riders to enter this type of event, but I would ask them to please spare a thought for those of us who ride purely as a hobby and still get a real thrill from taking home a rosette.

I am struggling to see what satisfaction one of our top riders would get from winning by beating people like myself. What next – Usain Bolt in the egg and spoon race at school sports day?"

 

[Scribbles]

I know in BSJA you can get suspended for that - entering a class (even unaffiliated) when you have prize winnings of more that the limit of the class.

My friend took her (BSJA) pony in an unaff chase-me-charlie. Someone reported it, and she was suspended from BSJA for a year.

 

[scotsmare]

I read your (edited) letter in H&H. I agree with some of your sentiments but just as you pay to enter, so do the professionals and there is no guarantee that either your horse or theirs will complete clear.

Ultimately, everyone pays their entry fees and from that point of view it's a level playing field.

I'm not sure why separating the professionals from the amateurs is necessary or even a good idea - surely the idea of going to compete is to the best you can?

 

[milliepops]

Pop into CR - 2 threads discussing your letter

 

[Hullabaloo]

Sorry, but to me its just not good sportsmanship.

A riding school near me runs regular shows with a 1'6 class. The adult section is designed for people who are just learning or maybe are nervous of jumping. There is nothing to stop me taking my horse in that class and I'm pretty sure we could scoop the prize most of the time. If I did, I would be depriving someone who had worked hard to achieve something at that level of the chance to win a prize. That just does not sit well with me, whether the rider is amateur or professional.

 

[scotsmare]

So are you suggesting there should be a dressage type system where riders are graded by results and if they've got too many points they have to compete HC if they want to compete in a lower class?

BD already does this - might be worth broaching with BE?

 

[milliepops]

I think what the OP is getting at is there can't be much sense of achievement for the winner of the classes (ETA - so why bother?). I do Elementary BD, and as such, wouldn't enter a local unaff Prelim as it wouldn't be fair on the other competitors (and I wouldn't feel like I had achieved much if I won).

Actually I think that WW should have put something in the schedule about the 'Introductory CT' classes being for combinations that had not been placed at BE/BSJA/BD above a certain level - allowing overqualified horses to take part for experience, but only HC.

 

[scotsmare]

Thing is, sense of achievement or not, they still have the right to enter and until BE does something about it there's nothing anyone else can do!

 

[cyearsley]

Totally agree with you. I know that technically there is nothing to stop them entering but what makes them want to in the first place? Can't believe a rider of that level would be trophy hunting so what makes them do it? I find it frustrating and the relevant organisations need to change not only to make it fairer but also to encourage lower level riders. Some of the competitions I have looked at entering have different sections, with say one being Restricted to those who have never been placed or have points and then another section being Open? Surely this would be a compromise?

Just to add, I know of someone who competes her horses at the highest level of dressage and comes out to our local shows to do Best Rider or Veteran classes - I kid you not !!!!

 

[milliepops]

Surely if it is an unaffiliated competition then it's not up to BE, it is up to the competition organisers?

ETA - before I affiliated my mare, I used to see it on schedules of unaff shows that some classes were not open to combinations with winnings at BE/BSJA - seems sensible to me.

 

[TGM]

[ QUOTE ]
Just to add, I know of someone who competes her horses at the highest level of dressage and comes out to our local shows to do Best Rider or Veteran classes - I kid you not !!!!

[/ QUOTE ] I believe you - have witnessed the said rider doing exactly that at really low key shows!

 

[RussianGirl]

I agree with the OP entirelyin some areas; I compete for the satisfaction of knowing that the hard work I put in is translating into improved equine skills, how can someone get this going from a high level of competition, where winning is something that has to be worked hard for, to a level where winning takes a lot less.
By entering such competitions you are depriving the joy of winning from someone who has worked hard for it.

However, in the case of someone entering a higher level of competition horse (I can't think of a better way to put it) who has not previously competed at such a level, I don't see it as being that bad. For example, someone who has only just started riding was supposed to be taking Horsk to a competition in a few weeks. Unfortunately (Or, fortunately as some of you may see it) the idiot has started to become a pain in the backside since I stopped riding him (Due to injury), so Katya cannot ride him.
It might be just me, but you don't seem to mention what level this 'other' rider has competed at, but I see it as a possitive learning experience for a nervous rider to ride a more experienced horse at lower levels. Even if this horse was capable of working to a much better standard, the riders ability may have impared this.

 

[stencilface]

Think said rider has just completed Bramham horse trials - winning the Under 25 section? Could be wrong there, but I don't think her ability would be the problem

 

[RussianGirl]

[ QUOTE ]
Think said rider has just completed Bramham horse trials - winning the Under 25 section? Could be wrong there, but I don't think her ability would be the problem

[/ QUOTE ]

In that cases I could use several swear words to describe how I would feel about being beaten by her, however, I won't

 

[251libby]

her ability isn't a problem at all lol

 

[Natch]

I agree with the OP, having experienced similar myself when a well known successful Showjumper in my area borrowed a friend's advanced eventer and entered a beginner's prelim competition: he was within his rights to enter (rules said not to have won a prelim or above dressage competition before), and the pair won it by a mile. I came 3rd, and overheard someone who knew him and had lessons with him tell him in no uncertain tems, "thanks very much, you knocked my daughter out of the placings"

Me and my green cob, and all the children, nevous riders and first time competitors were all knocked down a place by his attendance. I wonder how much satisfaction he got for entering that level of competition, and if it was worth sending a child client of his home without a rosette. Surely someone riding at his level, on such an advanced horse, could have had the grace to enter HC?

 

[charliesarmy]

I do think its unfair but they have every right to enter...so surely it has to be down to the event organiser to stipulate the rules I know at my local riding club you are not allowed to enter some of the xc classes if you have done a BE as a combination...if the pro wanted to just get neds out couldnt they have entered as a noncompetitor??

 

[jendie]

If it isn't against the rules maybe the rules should be changed.I show dogs and there are all sorts of regulations concerning the class/es a dog can be entered in at coformation comps. At agility contests a handler who had won at level three, for example, would not be able to enter even the most beginner of dogs in a level one class.

Most exhibitors would not dream of entering a champion dog at a non-championship show. It just wouldn't feel right.

 

[stroppymare153]

[ QUOTE ]
Think said rider has just completed Bramham horse trials - winning the Under 25 section? Could be wrong there, but I don't think her ability would be the problem

[/ QUOTE ]

just a quickie - the rider in question didn't win U25s - she had 2 horses and was 5th and 11th.

Still doesn't give her an excuse though!! Would hope that Yogi B would give her a bl**dy good talking to about bringing the sport into disrepute.

 

[stencilface]

I am by no means a fab rider, or compete at a high level. I would enter a 90cm combined training, but then I have no BE points, and my dressage quite frankly is terrible!

But as I do mainly BSJA and am out of BN now, I rarely ever go unaff now, and if I do, I always go in the opens. I sometimes go to trailblazers but then again always in 90cm + classes.

But then, I haven't competed at an international level, although I did technically beat a young Robert Whitaker (I am the same age though!) a few years back - put a smile on my face

 

[miss_c]

I would quite upset if I was in the 65cm class (which I would be as I'm a wuss) and a professional also entered on anything that wasn't green as spring grass. I only compete unafilliated over tiny jumps, and the first (and so far only) time I took Genie dressaging I did a walk and trot test as it was her first ever dressage, and will not take her in another.

If you win by such a large margin I honestly cannot see where the joy in doing well can come from, as I would personally value a placing in a competive class than a win in a class where nobody else was even close (although that has never happened to us and never will!)

On the local show circuit I quite regularly see one or two people out who do county and higher, coming to local shows for apparently no reason. Must admit that it makes me a bit disheartened when I'm walking round waiting for the class to start and already knowing the top 3 or 4. On the other hand, on the odd occassion that we beat them, it makes it even better!

 

[stencilface]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Think said rider has just completed Bramham horse trials - winning the Under 25 section? Could be wrong there, but I don't think her ability would be the problem

[/ QUOTE ]

just a quickie - the rider in question didn't win U25s - she had 2 horses and was 5th and 11th.

Still doesn't give her an excuse though!! Would hope that Yogi B would give her a bl**dy good talking to about bringing the sport into disrepute.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops! I couldn't remember how she did and couldn't be bothered to look it up - sorry for that one!

 

[AmyMay]

A novice course is just that - a novice course. So I seen no reason why a professional rider shouldn't take their inexperienced horse to an unafilliated combined training event - especially if the course was going to be a strong one.

Remember not every pro combination turns out to be a winning one. And sometimes these horses are destined for nothing more glorious than Riding Club careers. They all have to be tested though.

 

[millitiger]

[ QUOTE ]
A novice course is just that - a novice course. So I seen no reason why a professional rider shouldn't take their inexperienced horse to an unafilliated combined training event - especially if the course was going to be a strong one.


[/ QUOTE ]

but the horses in qestion were not inexperienced- if they were there would not have been such an uproar!

i do not take my experienced eventer to unafiliated jumping or do prelim dressage because it would be pot hunting and against the spirit of the sport and fair play.
maybe i am stupid and should enter some walk & trot tests for a pretty rosette and to 'increase his value.'
although i think the fact he competes successfully at BE is a better marketing tool than winning a 65cm class but maybe that is where i am going wrong!

 

[Decision_Tree]

copy of my reply from CR:
Very interesting series on posts in here and in NL2.

I completely agree 100% with the OP. I work hard to fund my hobby and work hard training my horse and very much look forward to competitions. Everyone wants to complete on a level playing ground.

This is a clear case of unsportsmanship! I go up to my local stables SJ to give my horse a run out, this is however attended by riders on hired out stable horses and I dont go into the Jump offs as I dont want to take rosettes of riders who for them this is there only chance to complete as they dont own horses, also puts me at a major advantage over them as I have competed more, own my own horse and also have come up the levels. I would get no pleasure from taking places over them.

Being second to a pro is fine if your both riding at the level correct for the horse in question, not if it appears to be glory hunting. Did she have bad rounds on all these four horses? Was there a need to gain confidence with them all?

As for to build confidence: look at Rosiefans posts - Rosie (sorry dont know her second name!!) that a girl who needs confidence built up again. Im sure no-one here would object to coming second to Rosie.

 

[martlin]

[ QUOTE ]

This is a clear case of unsportsmanship! I go up to my local stables SJ to give my horse a run out, this is however attended by riders on hired out stable horses and I dont go into the Jump offs as I dont want to take rosettes of riders who for them this is there only chance to complete as they dont own horses, also puts me at a major advantage over them as I have competed more, own my own horse and also have come up the levels. I would get no pleasure from taking places over them.


[/ QUOTE ]

OR, just playing Devil's advocate
You could be considered stuck up by some for believing you are better that them and that they are not worthy jumping off against you

 

[jumptoit]

[ QUOTE ]
A novice course is just that - a novice course.

[/ QUOTE ]

A BE Novice SJ course is 1m 15 this is entirely different to an Unaff 85!

 

[Ludi-doodi]

Given that Carl Hester has recently responded and explained his 'earmuff' situtation on this forum, how do you feel about sending this thread to Georgie and asking her to explain her rationale? Not suggesting it's worded contentiously, but simply asking her to clear up the confusion. Her email addy is on her website.

 

[fatpiggy]

Oh don't. I went to a riding club (VERY minor) dressage competition to do a prelim test on my crazy chestnut mare who only associated that field with doing WH courses at the gallop. Warming up outside the ring for the same test was a woman on a big warmblood doing 3 time changes. I pointed her out to one of the other competitors and she said "oh yes, that is X. She breeds dressage horses and is well known as a pot-hunter around the area." What a sad, pathetic woman she must be to take rosettes from teenagers and kids and senile folk like me.

 

[Mid]

I've noticed this! I was at an indoor SJ a little while ago, and it was mostly beginners or tiny kids in the early classes which started from about 1'. Anyways, someone on a massive and very obviously experienced warmblood had entered all the classes from about 1'6 and up. They were about 23, and looked like a very good rider themselves, and were wearing all tailored show stuff, and were really going at quite a speed.. They won all the classes, beating tiny children on tiny ponies, and beginners on ponies hired from the local RS... Up until 2', where they were pipped to the post by the tiniest little girl (who was about 6) on a pony who was about 11.2hh! Was very satisfying =P The wb person has also entered in the higher classes, which were 2'6 and 2'9, I don't know how they did.

Fair enough if you wanted to warm your horse up, which is what I'm sure they were doing... Just use the clear round course!! I felt sorry for the tiny tots who were pushed out of placings..