Improving Jumping Position - Help Please?

[3Beasties]

Now that Summer is here we are getting out and about doing a bit more jumping. Having never really jumped courses before, or ever competed (started at the end of last year), it's been quite a learning curve! I never realised how hard it would be to get a clear round!! It does feel like it is all starting to come together a bit more, I am more aware of our mistakes, panicking slightly less about it all and feeling more confident. We're only jumping 2'6 and 2'9 classes but I think there's scope to go higher if I get my act together.....which leads me to the point of the thread!

My jumping position is not great. I keep seeing lovely pro pics of my horse but can't buy because I look so terrible. I think the problem is I am slightly ahead of the movement and instead of folding I am standing so I end up being half way up her neck, with my legs right back, sticky-outy toes and looking as if I am trying to lift her over the fence. Great image right?!?

Lessons are in the pipeline but I sometimes feel that they don't really help my position, just our way of going in general. So, what can I do to improve it?

Do you think jumping without stirrups (or bareback) would help me 'sit' a bit more over a fence and get my leg underneath me? Any other ideas?

Here's a few pics just so you get the idea -

There are many more worse photos but I haven't purchased them so can't share.

And a couple of vids that might help you to see the problem -

[video=youtube;GhzecKXByTM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhzecKXByTM[/video]

[video=youtube;au1f2bpv9dk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au1f2bpv9dk[/video]

Thank you in advance

 

[blood_magik]

In the photos it looks like you're leaning forwards rather than folding at your hips and keeping your weight centred in the saddle. Its pushing your lower leg back and up.
I would also say you could give with your hands a little bit more over the fence.

We used to spend ages in jumping position just trotting and cantering around the school to work on our balance and keeping our heels down. Simple but effective . Good luck.

 

[wench]

Perhaps you could try some Pilates/core strength exercises to help you.

What about your saddle? Is it a gp or a jump? You'd be amazed at the difference a jump saddle can make to a gp!

 

[3Beasties]

In the photos it looks like you're leaning forwards rather than folding at your hips and keeping your weight centred in the saddle. Its pushing your lower leg back and up.
I would also say you could give with your hands a little bit more over the fence.

We used to spend ages in jumping position just trotting and cantering around the school to work on our balance and keeping our heels down. Simple but effective . Good luck.

Yer that's exactly what I do, I need to learn to fold more and get my backside back!

Perhaps you could try some Pilates/core strength exercises to help you.

What about your saddle? Is it a gp or a jump? You'd be amazed at the difference a jump saddle can make to a gp!

Not really keen on Pilates tbh but thanks for the suggestion!

The saddle is a GP, have never tried her in a jump but the opportunity may arise to get a jump one soon (have just bought a dressage saddle so now I think I could sell my GP and get a jump as both disciplines would be covered then). Can a jump saddle really make that much difference?

 

[wench]

Yes I assure you it can. My legs used to flick back when jumping in a gp saddle. Got a jumping saddle hey presto problem vanished!

 

[Cowpony]

I did the same thing for many years, and the lightbulb moment for me was when an instructor told me that you fold to your hands, so if your hands are too high you can only fold so far. This means that you tip forward from your toes to balance. She made me come into the jump with my hands halfway up my horse's neck, but with my hands right on her mane, or even down either side of her neck. It felt very weird but within one lesson it cured the bad position I'd been cultivating for years!

 

[blood_magik]

Pilates does make a difference - I started a few weeks ago. It is kind of boring though.

Could you maybe borrow a jump saddle to try? Dad borrowed mine the other day and he couldn't believe the difference.

 

[milliepops]

Yes I assure you it can. My legs used to flick back when jumping in a gp saddle. Got a jumping saddle hey presto problem vanished!

Same, not just any jumping saddle though, has to be the right one for you. I had an Ideal which if anything made the problem worse, tried a Wow and it was an instant fix, suddenly I was in balance with the horse and no more swingy legs

 

[vam]

Same, not just any jumping saddle though, has to be the right one for you. I had an Ideal which if anything made the problem worse, tried a Wow and it was an instant fix, suddenly I was in balance with the horse and no more swingy legs

Agree with above, the right jumping saddle made a huge amount of difference for me, it allowed me to finally get my legs in the right position which in turn meant that I could fold properly rather than go up his neck. Lots of time spent in jumping position helps (oh the burn!) in all paces, for some reason I found walk hardest. Once you get your leg under you it will help you get your butt back which is the main problem you’re having, keep your weight in you lower leg (not just your heel, I find that if you put too much weight there your leg will shoot forward unless you have super flexible ankles) and learn to balance yourself in 2 point. Keep you knee open to stop gripping with it otherwise your leg will swing back, I had this problem for years and found that big knee blocks where much of the problem or at least the wrong big blocks.
I would also get a good instructor to help you with grids, the reason being that when you know your horse is going to take off in the right place at the right time you can folder better. I'm not sure about you but as I'm not exactly a pro I get it wrong stride wise so I can find myself behind or in front. It helps loads when I hit the right stride (obviously) I can fold properly, the more I get it right the more my position over a fence improves. The canter will have an impact as well so working to get that right will help loads.
Oddly my instructor didn’t really work on my position, yes we did lots of 2 point and she made me stop gripping with my knees but it was mostly for his benefit, the better he went and the more I jumped the better my position got, the saddle was the final bit of the puzzle for my horses and my way of going.
I guess there isn’t one answer, I wish there was but if you can try a jump saddle to give you an idea and then something to work towards. The instructor will help with the rest.

 

[Red-1]

Think "bum back" rather than "go forwards" but practice a LOT on the flat first. This will also flatten your back and keep your leg down.

In fact when you have the "bum back" to a T then think "bum back / hands forwards".

 

[smja]

Have a lesson with a decent instructor, but say to them that you want to work on your position in particular - you're paying them to teach you, so you might as well help them out with what you want to learn.

Try to sit up all the way to the fence, especially if the horse is backing off/needs more power, rather than rounding your shoulders inwards (especially on the last stride). I'd go for a canter in light seat before starting your round to get the horse really moving forwards, then you can sit tall to contain the energy rather than having to create it on the way round - which encourages leaning forwards.

 

[MileAMinute]

Agree with above, the right jumping saddle made a huge amount of difference for me, it allowed me to finally get my legs in the right position which in turn meant that I could fold properly rather than go up his neck. Lots of time spent in jumping position helps (oh the burn!) in all paces, for some reason I found walk hardest. Once you get your leg under you it will help you get your butt back which is the main problem you’re having, keep your weight in you lower leg (not just your heel, I find that if you put too much weight there your leg will shoot forward unless you have super flexible ankles) and learn to balance yourself in 2 point. Keep you knee open to stop gripping with it otherwise your leg will swing back, I had this problem for years and found that big knee blocks where much of the problem or at least the wrong big blocks.
I would also get a good instructor to help you with grids, the reason being that when you know your horse is going to take off in the right place at the right time you can folder better. I'm not sure about you but as I'm not exactly a pro I get it wrong stride wise so I can find myself behind or in front. It helps loads when I hit the right stride (obviously) I can fold properly, the more I get it right the more my position over a fence improves. The canter will have an impact as well so working to get that right will help loads.
Oddly my instructor didn’t really work on my position, yes we did lots of 2 point and she made me stop gripping with my knees but it was mostly for his benefit, the better he went and the more I jumped the better my position got, the saddle was the final bit of the puzzle for my horses and my way of going.
I guess there isn’t one answer, I wish there was but if you can try a jump saddle to give you an idea and then something to work towards. The instructor will help with the rest.

Brilliant advice here - I'm currently having lessons to improve my jump seat and this is spot on with what my RI was saying as I struggle with getting my leg underneath me and pushing my bum back.
3beasties, your mare is gorgeous!

 

[Lanky Loll]

Pilates does make a difference - I started a few weeks ago. It is kind of boring though.

Could you maybe borrow a jump saddle to try? Dad borrowed mine the other day and he couldn't believe the difference.

Just on the core strength issue - I've started doing a Swiss Ball class once a week instead of Pilates (which I do enjoy but no longer runs at work) and it's brilliant, lots of work on balance and core strength, really helps with my riding position. I'm a bit evangelical about it now

Otherwise others have already given some excellent advice.

 

[Blythe Spirit]

Agree the 'trick' is bum back feet forward for me. Look at the position shown in Vam's sig and compare how much further back that rider's bum is compared to yours - I try to think about staying close to my horse with my seat and legs - having said that I still have a habit of going first unless I am on a perfect stride

Just watched the videos IMO the second one is better in terms of your style - but you are definitely folding too soon - esp when your more is slightly on the wrong stride. This means that on occasion when you take off you have already folded as much as you would need to and you do a 'double fold' which leaves you too far in front of the horse. Nice though

 

[Sammy1983]

No constructive criticism I'm afraid just wanted to say I love your horse and have admired her many times at kings.

 

[Micky]

Beautiful horse try thinking few strides before the fence...heels down, slide bum back, really exaggerate it and you my be surprised how little you are actually sliding your bum back ie: not enough ..nothing else...and count or recite numbers/abc as you're going around the course, helps with breathing, regular rhythm of canter and nerves

 

[Carefreegirl]

My instructor (Nick Turner) makes me approach the jump out the saddle and screaming hips under - him not me :smile3:. I'd got in the habit of being to far forward putting J on her forehand and forever having 8 fault rounds. Finally sank in and last month had my first clear SJ at BE100.

I just approach the jump repeating 'hips under, hips under, hips under' and you automatically tilt your pelvis up so you can't fling yourself to forward. I also do Pilates and fitball (gym ball class) whic has helped my core stability loads.

 

[3Beasties]

Thank you all, some really great advice which I will put into practice! I really, really want to improve as I'm fed up of looking pants. Practice, practice and yet more practice is the answer I think! I'll print this thread off and stick it in my tack room so I can read it before I jump!

No constructive criticism I'm afraid just wanted to say I love your horse and have admired her many times at kings.

Ahh thank you! You should say hello (or maybe you have and I just haven't put two and two together?)

Just watched the videos IMO the second one is better in terms of your style - but you are definitely folding too soon - esp when your more is slightly on the wrong stride. This means that on occasion when you take off you have already folded as much as you would need to and you do a 'double fold' which leaves you too far in front of the horse. Nice though

Interesting that you think the second vid is better style wise. She felt greener that day so maybe I was not as confident and was worried she would stop so didn't fold as early? Or maybe being over bigger fences makes me back off a bit more?

 

[HannaST]

Agree with others, sit back all the way until the last second and then go "bum back".


A few other things that helps me:

Not looking down at the fence - I keep looking AT the fence, which is a problem when I'm one stride away because then I'm looking down! Instead, keep the fence in your peripheral vision (at the edge of your sight), you can still see it, but just not straight at it. Look at something in the distance instead, it's difficult but works!

Keeping my "thighs horizontal" - this helps me keep my weight back until the last moment. In dressage you want fairly vertical thighs, but in jumping you want stability so keep your thighs as horizontal as possible (i.e. knees further up) whilst using your core muscles to stay strong. You can imagine trying to use your shins to push at something in front of you.

Keeping the weight in the stirrup - you'd be surprised at how hard it is to really keep the weight in the stirrup over the fence! Follows on with the tip above, but really think about pushing the soles of your feet forwards and into the stirrup before the fence, then pushing into the stirrups over the jump. As someone once told me - have the weight in your stirrups as it can't be anywhere else!

Not folding so much - these size jumps really don't require much folding. Give with your hands downwards instead of forwards, it's better to sit up and in balance than throwing yourself forward to give the rein. Keep your core REALLY strong over the fence.

I learnt most of this from my Ride With Your Mind instructor (a pupil of Mary Wanless) - if you have one of those in your area, go for a lesson, as they really pull your position to bits!

Good luck, your horse is lovely, you ride well and your position is really not that bad

 

[_GG_]

I used to love my jumping as a kid and whilst my position wasn't the most perfect, I was confident. This pony was new, never been ridden by any of us and going to the sales, so I was told to get on and get some jumping pictures. I was fearless back then...

Jump forward 20 years and having lost my jumping confidence at Hartpury, I decided to pop Fly over a few teeny jumps a couple of years back and did the exact same thing as you. A year later I was back to my old self, in balance, not getting left behind or in front of the jump. It was all just a case of it coming back to me as my confidence grew again. I'm sure it will be just the same when I start again as I've had a year out of the saddle.

So, try not to beat yourself up. It's really not as bad as you probably think it is. xxx

 

[LeannePip]

Looking at the pictures your position isnt THAT bad, its effective and not hindering ther horse, but i feel like you i just need a bit of a tidy up!

One of the best things i was ever taught for jumping was that your feet and lower legs are your seatbelt, with out them in a 'crash' there is nothing holding you in, apart from not hanging on with your hands the only thing you should think about on approach is rythm and your seat belt. It s really easy to approach and think, seat belt on and prevents me from worrying about where we are taking off from. It also helps those that throw themselves forwards because if your lower leg is anchored down and forward (but not rediculously so) it is near on impossible to get too infront of the movement, like wise if your kicking like mad on the approach your leg is further back and the laws of motion means your upper body will fall further forward on take off, your leg swings back towards horses bum and the top half falls to the neck - yours doesnt appear to do this too badly though, its legs on numnahs that make me cringe!

incidentally i had a jumping lesson last night and had a few position corrections to make and he said, i think you need to start doing this planking thing thats all the rage - the thing is i already plank! am up to two and a half minues, go to the gym 6 days a week spin 4 times and do three core classes a week + others! i just cant translate it to riding my lazy horse!

 

[HannaST]

One of the best things i was ever taught for jumping was that your feet and lower legs are your seatbelt, with out them in a 'crash' there is nothing holding you in, apart from not hanging on with your hands the only thing you should think about on approach is rythm and your seat belt. It s really easy to approach and think, seat belt on and prevents me from worrying about where we are taking off from.

Love this idea! I really like images like this that make it easier to find the right feel for things

 

[philamena]

I can't remember who said it, think it was either Lucinda Green or Lorna Clarke but a useful analogy for me was: "you're reaching forward to grab a vodka off the pub table while trying to keep your chair from being nicked". Useful way to remember the bum-back idea ha ha

For feet forward, this is just drilling though front-back saddle balance helps or hinders. If you get the fold right it might well look after itself anyhoo.

 

[LeannePip]

Love this idea! I really like images like this that make it easier to find the right feel for things

its great, it also means your ready for the un expected, if your feet and lower leg are anchored gives you more chance of staying in the saddle too, as if your just thinking bum back ect, how are you prepared if you dont make it that far? i.e stop/chip in/stumble on approach.

i find it helpful any way, as it means i sit up taller on the approach too and dont take off kicking and flapping!