Individual turnout

[ycbm]

No, not if the horse is not content with the arrangement.
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[Upthecreek]

I'm glad it has worked out for you but equally would you insist on them staying on individual turnout if they hadn't settled? Would you insist on them being on individual turnout for your own convenience if it clearly wasn't in their best interest? I'm assuming not. This is what myself and other posters take issue with, is when it is done for the benefit of only the owner and is of no benefit to the horse.

There isn’t always an immediate better alternative, so it would depend on the situation. I’d be far less worried than if I put them in herd turnout and they didn’t settle. At least they wouldn’t be getting the crap kicked out of them or be prevented from accessing hay by other horses.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Slightly off topic but mentioned by another poster, regarding the danger of electric gates and also the lock or corral at the main gate. A few notes of caution. Firstly I no longer use the spring type stretchy curly wurly electric gates since one horse swished its tail on the wayout, got caught in the curly wurly wire gate and galloped off across the field dragging the now broken electric gate and handle and half a post behind it. Obviously he had received several shocks until the fence post and gate broke away, so catching him was somewhat challenging to say the least, poor chap. I now just use a plain piece of electric tape for a gateway and have perfected the art of looping it up over the fencing as I turn so as not to click away on the ground and leading the horse with the other hand.

Ever since electric fencing became available I have always had a fenced off corral at all field entrances, a large one big enough for a strapping great horse to move around, turn or whatever without going anywhere near the sides of the electric corral. I also have two exit gates at separate ends out onto the field in the corral so I can choose which one is safest to turn the horse out through, depending on where the rest of the herd have positioned themselves. For many years it kept me safe, stopped squabbles at the gateway when turning out and bringing in.

About 3/4 years ago when I bought my new riding horse and he had settled in very well with my retired mare and the two donkeys I decided in my infinite wisdom to do away with the corral. Afterall they were such a small herd and quiet and polite bunch it was unnecessary wasn't it? About a year later I had brought the new big fellah (17.3) in to soak and dress an abscess, I opened the electric tape gate to turn him back out and told my very interested (and probably jealous) mare to back up. She did but not very far, I let him through assuming as his hulk passed her she would get further out of the way. Wrong! All I vaguely remember is her lunging at his bum and biting him, he span and ran straight back towards me and she followed (probably both went over me as I lay on the yard floor) I came around, well sort of, at some point laying on my back with the back of my head pouring with blood asking someone (nobody there! so no idea who I thought could help me) to help me stand up. Eventually crawled across the yard and again I dont remember the next bit but my son found me outside the yard leaning against a gate post holding my head and totally incoherent. Both horses were across the other side of the yard happily grazing, all gates open so they could have ended up anywhere.

Dolly and the donkeys now have a lovely big corral between all fields and the yard, I will never, ever keep any of them without this system. I appreciate that for a lot of people this is not possible but for those of you who can I would highly recommend at least thinking about something similar. The only proviso is it must be large enough for the largest animal in the field not to be trapped in a small space as you use it. When I had liveries in the past they really liked the idea and I know a couple who went on to have their own land also used the system despite having very reliable and settled horses.

Sorry I have waffled again haven't I??? Here endeth the lesson for the day, go forth and multiply (Genesis 1:28)

 

[Gallop_Away]

There isn’t always an immediate better alternative, so it would depend on the situation. I’d be far less worried than if I put them in herd turnout and they didn’t settle. At least they wouldn’t be getting the crap kicked out of them or be prevented from accessing hay by other horses.

Fait enough though I would point out not all herd set ups are like that. Ours works well. Accidents do happen occasionally but then that is always the risk with horses regardless.

 

[Birker2020]

At the end of the day you can only do what you can do and what suits one doesn't suit another.

My new horse (when I buy it) will be in individual turnout as was Lari, Bailey and others before them.

 

[lme]

Mine are out in pairs or 3s with other horses we own. I wouldn’t want either individual turnout or herd turnout where other horses were coming and going.

 

[Goldenstar]

So move on the debate how big should an individual turnout paddock be to be acceptable .
Too many are imo tiny and not going to give a horse enough movement unless it’s in a good bit of work .

 

[J&S]

My present "herd" is just a pair, on my own land, been like this for about 7 years. Previously my skewbald mare had lived on her own for a while, she had originally moved to be on box rest and then stayed on as the facilities were very good. As soon as she retired I made every effort to find her a friend and the present one is a great success. However, in the past, when I had my NF mare and then bought a chestnut Han/TB mare there was no way they could live together in the same paddock!! Luckily the livery yard allowed us to work things out for ourselves and each of them had their own companion and we operated a never the twain shall meet policy. I have kept my ponies in large herds and only ever suffered minor injuries, some times self inflicted (rolling to close to fence etc), Its great if they have enough space and don't keep changing the pecking order. I have seen an old, previously in charge, mare lose her place at the top and that is sad to see.

 

[J&S]

To answer Goldenstar, at least an acre per horse?

 

[ycbm]

So move on the debate how big should an individual turnout paddock be to be acceptable .
Too many are imo tiny and not going to give a horse enough movement unless it’s in a good bit of work .

An acre seems to work well where I am. 70m x 70m, 50m x 80m, that sort of thing.

 

[blitznbobs]

Difficult to answer as I have ummm a few but most are on herd, some are on paired and occasionally i will have one alone but in view of others (if his friend is away because he beats other horses up #thug)

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I really wonder what goes on in some fields! Over the years we have kept horses in a variety of situations (never individual TO) and I can only think of a handful of injuries in 50 years of keeping horses and most of those were not inflicted by another horse e.g. the Draft mare poked herself in the eye on something growing in the field, the WelshxTB cut her leg on an old overgrown gate to nowhere. The only horse on horse injury that I can remember happened when our first Appaloosa mare kicked another livery in the gateway. We weren't there at the time but YO said at the time that it was the fault of the other owner.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Well, that's great then, isn't it.

No wonder you think that the risks in group turnout are being over stated.

The cases of dead horses with broken legs I know of were mostly, but not exclusively, at livery. One was a settled pair kept at home, the victim being a retired superstar eventer, an absolute diamond of a horse . A pretty grim wait for the vet with a horse with a shattered leg swinging uselessly.

Are we now going to blame owners who have lost horses to kicks in the field for not managing their horses correctly?

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

Error

It is interesting that group turnout is so often singled out as a risk to be avoided (even where they may be no particular need to do so and owners have not had prior traumatic experiences of it) when we are happy to ask horses to undertake plenty of other activities known to be risky - travelling, riding on the roads, jumping fixed obstacles, working on poor surfaces. All cause injury and death to horses not necessarily purely as a result of bad luck, but sometimes because of poor risk assessment, riding or management, but it's not all that frequent for owners to swear off them with the same or subsequent horses afterwards, or even because of future risk, if those activities give the *owner* enjoyment.

(Adding the obligatory proviso that group turnout should be enjoyable for the horse and not undertaken purely for ideological reasons...)

I would say I risk assess everything I do with my horse(s) from the work they do the surfaces I ride them, whether it is wise to travel them. etc. I don’t travel my horses 12hrs a day 364 days of the year but he would spend that time being in a field so his exposure to the risk is greater. Also everyone’s perception of risk is different as it what they find acceptable. Some people gaily gallop their horses flat out over rough ground when e.g. hunting whilst others will not jump on anything other than an artificial surface. Often it differs because of very personal experiences.

 

[FestiveG]

Are we now going to blame owners who have lost horses to kicks in the field for not managing their horses correctly?

As far as I can see, you are the only person suggesting such blame.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Clearly got a bad life with tiny fields

 

[Birker2020]

Clearly got a bad life with tiny fields

Like mine too!

 

[Barton Bounty]

Like mine too!

I know people that would cram 3/4 on it , he has it all to himself with company next to him across the way to left and straight across

 

[Birker2020]

I know people that would cram 3/4 on it , he has it all to himself with company next to him across the way to left and straight across

Yes mine had company on three sides with two of the sides allowing him to play over the fence.

We were always terrified the 'tongue' would end up without his as the horse next door used to try to chew on it!

 

[toppedoff]

Don't mind what people do with their paddock situation because everyone has their reasons and preferences (horses too!)

But what i hate is how a mutual keeps her horse. He's on his own acre, no other horses to see and he's all by himself. It's so sad

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Like mine too!

That would have killed my old boy if he was the only one on it, he was a very good doer and we had him in with my other one and a field that is 3/4 the size of that and i still struggled with his weight all year round. We arent allowed to strip graze where i am, if i was then i would have no problem with a field that size for one.

It is a lovely field

 

[Birker2020]

For those people who think individual turnout in tountamount to abuse or can't appreciate the real risk, here are SEIB's top 10 ailments claimed for during 2022. Sadly number two, wounds and fractures in the stable/field.

Of course the field fractures could include individual turned out horses but I'd have thought there would be twice as many herd horses given it's number 2 of their most common claims.

 

[JBM]

So move on the debate how big should an individual turnout paddock be to be acceptable .
Too many are imo tiny and not going to give a horse enough movement unless it’s in a good bit of work .

I was always told an acer and a half for the first horse and an extra acer for every horse after that

 

[Burnttoast]

For those people who think individual turnout in tountamount to abuse or can't appreciate the real risk, here are SEIB's top 10 ailments claimed for during 2022. Sadly number two, wounds and fractures in the stable/field.

Of course the field fractures could include individual turned out horses but I'd have thought there would be twice as many herd horses given it's number 2 of their most common claims.

The average horse spends at least 23 hours a day in a stable or a field, while the hour or so of exercise they get appears to be responsible for no. 3 on the list. The one conclusion you can't draw from that information is that group turnout is more risky to horses than anything else they do.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

The one conclusion you can't draw from that information is that group turnout is more risky to horses than anything else they do.

Agreed. I just can't see how this information provides any proof of anything regarding individual or group turnout injuries. It doesn't even mention group or individual turnout so I don't see how you have interpreted it to mean horses kept on individual turnout are safer, it just doesn't make any sense to use this rather vague and brief paragraph from SEIB to substantiate your claims.

If you are going to use that to back up your opinion then perhaps I may use ailment number 1: Gastric Ulcers proves that horses kept in individual field or stable without companion is the most likely cause of gastric ulcers? Ridiculous conclusion but a very good illustration of how flawed your argument is?

 

[Birker2020]

I was always told an acer and a half for the first horse and an extra acer for every horse after that

Yes I've heard that but if you were to do that for our horses they'd be very fat and poorly. Our grazing is ex dairy and very rich and most of us strip graze.

 

[Birker2020]

Agreed. I just can't see how this information provides any proof of anything regarding individual or group turnout injuries. It doesn't even mention group or individual turnout so I don't see how you have interpreted it to mean horses kept on individual turnout are safer, it just doesn't make any sense to use this rather vague and brief paragraph from SEIB to substantiate your claims.

If you are going to use that to back up your opinion then perhaps I may use ailment number 1: Gastric Ulcers proves that horses kept in individual field or stable without companion is the most likely cause of gastric ulcers? Ridiculous conclusion but a very good illustration of how flawed your argument is?

Oh Wow.. ..

 

[Birker2020]

Agreed. I just can't see how this information provides any proof of anything regarding individual or group turnout injuries. It doesn't even mention group or individual turnout so I don't see how you have interpreted it to mean horses kept on individual turnout are safer, it just doesn't make any sense to use this rather vague and brief paragraph from SEIB to substantiate your claims.

If you are going to use that to back up your opinion then perhaps I may use ailment number 1: Gastric Ulcers proves that horses kept in individual field or stable without companion is the most likely cause of gastric ulcers? Ridiculous conclusion but a very good illustration of how flawed your argument is?

I personally think it's quite interesting

 

[JBM]

Yes I've heard that but if you were to do that for our horses they'd be very fat and poorly. Our grazing is ex dairy and very rich and most of us strip graze.

If it’s possible I would suggest reseeding with an equine appropriate seed mix as cow grass is such a pain to have horses on! So sugary

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Yes I've heard that but if you were to do that for our horses they'd be very fat and poorly. Our grazing is ex dairy and very rich and most of us strip graze.

So if you are strip grazing how do these horses manage to touch each other over the fences and run about with each other? Are all the strips in line with the others?