Individual turnout

Is your horse on individual turnout?

  • Yes because I have no choice - yard set up

    Votes: 25 10.6%

  • Yes because I prefer it to be

    Votes: 25 10.6%

  • No it is out with a herd - on a livery yard

    Votes: 87 36.9%

  • No it is out with a herd - I have my own land

    Votes: 104 44.1%
  • Total voters
    236
eggs said:
Friend's horse didn't have a broken leg but did sustain a ridden career ending injury following a kerfuffle with a post and rail fence between them.
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I knew someone would write this. Horses that injure each other by kicking through fences pale into insignificance beside the numbers which are injured kicking each other in the same field.

Is nobody who disagrees with single turnout prepared just to accept that group turnout increases injuries over single turnout?

I've no axe to grind on this but establishing the facts. My own has company.
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ycbm said:
I knew someone would write this. Horses that injure each other by kicking through fences pale into insignificance beside the numbers which are injured kicking each other in the same field.

Is nobody who disagrees with single turnout prepared just to accept that group turnout increases injuries over single turnout?

I've no axe to grind on this but establishing the facts. My own has company.
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I would agree that group turnout is a bigger risk, though not opposed to individual turnout if that’s what works for others.

I’m willing to accept the risk of my own horses harming each other either by playing/ fighting/ escaping but wouldn’t want that risk really for others, either them harming mine or vice versa.
 
ycbm said:
NOBODY said there was no risk to turnout individual paddocks. There are. And ALL those risks are also present in group turnout. Group turnout carries ADDITIONAL risks over and above those of single turnout.

If you don't agree with this, can you please explain how one horse can break another horse's leg when they are in different paddocks?
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As another poster said, horses are perfectly capable of kicking each other through fences. Also winding each other up causing them to hoon around and risk falling 🤷‍♀️ there is also no need for the shouty capital letters. I'm perfectly capable of reading thank you.

The point stands that there are always risks with every part of horse ownership. Some of us don't feel it is appropriate to restrict a naturally sociable animal to individual confinement for the convenience of limiting these risks. You are potentially jeopardising your horse's physical health at the expense of it's mental wellbeing, and you are not even illuminating the risks of them injuring themselves in doing so.
 
Gallop_Away said:
. Some of us don't feel it is appropriate to restrict a naturally sociable animal to individual confinement for the convenience of limiting these risks.
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I think it's incredibly dismissive of other people's experiences to describe not wanting to repeat seeing a horse shot with a broken leg from shared turnout as "for convenience".

You could at least acknowledge people's valid fears.
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ycbm said:
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No, they can't. There is a specific range of injuries that are caused only when horses are in the same enclosure. These are ADDITIONAL to the ordinary risks of turnout.
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Those injuries are normally associated with being kicked by a shod horse, so how about, instead of sentencing horses to solitary confinement owners just take their shoes off?
 
ycbm said:
So now nobody is allowed to do a sport requiring studs either?
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I have not said that but people need to be aware that if they choose to shoe their horses so that they can put studs in the shoes and at the same time don't want to risk having a horse kick whilst wearing shoes, it is *their choice* which is being imposed on the horse. Plenty of horses whose owners want to use studs live in herd situations.
 
These horses are only alive in the numbers that they are alive because people want to do "unnatural" things with them. Everyone who does less than turn their horse out full time on unrestricted space with rough grazing is doing something "unnatural".

If we were to ask 100 sports horses doing highly unnatural competitions and kept on single turnout to protect them from injury if they would rather be alive in those conditions or not alive at all, I can't imagine many of them choosing never to have lived.

I've chosen very deliberately this time to buy an institutionalised horse bred as a commodity, but I can't be doing with the wholesale condemnation by people on this forum, many of them lucky enough to have complete control over how their own horses live, of horse keepers who are choosing individual turnout for a variety of reasons.

Everything we do with horses is a compromise.
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Ycbm it's quite clear from the numerous threads we've had discussions on, that we have very different ideas when it comes to what are acceptable ways for horses to be kept.

There are compromises we all must make in the ways we choose to keep our horses. To myself and many others, sentencing a horse to solitary confinement to suit our own needs, isn't appropriate or fair on a naturally sociable animal. I look at my own horses who clearly enjoy the company of others and know it isn't something I could personally do to them.

It is down to other owners and their own moral code what they choose to do with their own horses. Now put down the axe as I think it's been ground down to a stump.
 
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My 3 (2 geldings and a mare) are all out together and very settled on our own land but were also out together on livery before we moved here.
I strongly dislike individual turnout and although there's exceptions to the rule, I don't think it suits the majority of horses.
I've kept a horse on individual turnout in the past believing it was her best option as she seemed to get bullied but actually was *so* much happier (and ulcers free!) with one suitable friend it just took a bit to find him. I wouldn't do it again and will take the risk.
Watching them together is lovely.
 
Gallop_Away said:
Ycbm it's quite clear from the numerous threads we've had discussions on, that we have very different ideas when it comes to what are acceptable ways for horses to be kept.

There are compromises we all must make in the ways we choose to keep our horses. To myself and many others, sentencing a horse to solitary confinement to suit our own needs, isn't appropriate or fair on a naturally sociable animal. I look at my own horses who clearly enjoy the company of others and know it isn't something I could personally do to them.

It is down to other owners and their own moral code what they choose to do with their own horses. Now put down the axe as I think it's berm ground down to a stump.
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The emotive language is just ridiculous.

Both you and YorksG have used the expression "solitary confinement". You are "sentencing" the horse to it and YorksG "forcing"the horse into it.

Solitary confinement is being locked away from all interaction, it is not being kept in a field with horses able to touch noses all around you.

I will stop arguing back when you at least acknowledge that many, many horses seem perfectly content with the arrangement and some even like it. Until then please don't tell me to stop answering you back, it's your own choice to continue the argument.
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I will add, the last yard I was on before we moved the horses home was all individual turnout bar mine. The horses were so unsettled.
One came in and everything wanted in, pacing, calling just awful to watch. I will say *on that yard* I found it cruel but it could definitely be done better. I find when you've got a mini herd they couldn't care less what everyone else is doing.
 
ycbm said:
The emotive language is just ridiculous.

Both you and YorksG have used the expression "solitary confinement". You are "sentencing" the horse to it and YorksG "forcing"the horse into it.

Solitary confinement is being locked away from all interaction, it is not being kept in a field with horses able to touch noses all around you.

I will stop arguing back when you at least acknowledge that many, many horses seem perfectly content with the arrangement and some even like it. Until then please don't tell me to stop answering you back, it's your own choice to continue the argument.
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I have not told you to stop replying for goodness sake. I was simply suggesting that there is little to be gained from going around and around in the same circles, when we clearly hold very different views, but by all means please yourself 🤷‍♀️

I make no apologies for the use of language. It is too often sugar coated and the reality is very different.

Finally, I have already said that there are exceptions and some horses do not suit herd turnout (happy to find the quote for you if you wish). However, in general horses are socialable animals and would naturally choose to live in herds. As you say, you cannot argue with facts.
 
Unfortunately I did not design this poll very well as it was my first time (hence why there are a number of the same voters voting over and over again to fudge the figures.)
:D
 
I’ve had herd turn-out and individual turn-out and my decisions were made on balance of all the risks and other pros and cons of the yards I chose. It was not made solely on the availability of individual turn-out in fact it was the one thing about my current yard that I’ve now been on for 13yrs that made me hesitate because I was concerned over his happiness.

On the big yard with herds of around 10 horses per field the vet was up practically daily to treat field injuries. There were at least 2 fatal injuries resulting from kicks in the 4 years I was there.

My own horse survived that but was kicked and got a bone chip out with a herd of 3 at my subsequent yard. The horse that kicked him was unshod. He did recover well. He did however fracture his pastern spontaneously at 27yrs in the field but was out with my other horse for the previous 4 yrs so not individual.

Our yard expanded last year and one girl with two horses decided to put her gelding out with her mare even though she had been turning out individually and the mars kicked him that day resulting in a fractured leg and I had to take him to the veterinary hospital. Then the poor thing had 8 weeks of being cross-tied in a stable before starting rehab but fortunately fully recovered. That entailed her staying in a caravan unheated caravan overnight at the yard so that she could take him off the cross ties every 4hrs to allow his head down. That injury is the only serious field injury on my yard in 12yrs until my old boy had his.

I share YCBM’s frustration over the inability of some to acknowledge that there are additional risks that could result in injury to turning out in a herd. You can still on weighing up pros and cons think that herd turn-out is preferable but there are absolutely additional risks to consider.

In an idyllic world I would prefer small settled herd turnout but that is rare in a livery environment. I’m not anti herd turnout but am sceptical about how natural it is to put a non selective bunch of horses together and expect them to get on.
 
I have voted herd turnout on livery yard but she's only out with two other mares, one of which stays in during the day, and there are a few geldings in paddocks nearby that they can see. It gets a bit tricky if people want to bring their horses in for riding or w/e but I'm on full livery so that's less of a problem for me because YO manages it all.
I did temporary individual turnout when we initially moved here where she could see others and, although she coped well, she's very clearly more relaxed in with others. I have done large fields and big herds before too and to be honest it would probably be my preference as horse seems happier this way and in 15+ years I only had one significant but recoverable injury from an established herd, but I struggle to find good full livery yards that offer it. I think we've managed to find a good balance at our current place.
 
I will just point out that my lad is only 13.2hh, he was unshod when he nearly killed a 15.2hh hafflinger. He had such a go at her that she ended up with a fractured shoulder. He had been turned out next to her for weeks, had been seen grooming over the fence etc

According to many on here i should continue to shove him out in a herd and let him hurt other horses.

He is not in solitary confinement, he has horses all around him, he can touch noses, have a groom and have a hooley along side others without running the risk of him attempting to kill them for some perceived offence.
 
Rowreach said:
Maybe the results aren't what the OP wanted to see?
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Nope, couldn't care less Rowreach but thanks for your comment :) I was expecting someone to say that, and I wasn't let down.

I intend to keep the next one as I've kept the other two. Our yard is not geared up for herd turnout as I took pains to explain.



The trouble is there are probably more people with horses at home than on livery yards so its not a true reflection of figures anyway.
 
conniegirl said:
I will just point out that my lad is only 13.2hh, he was unshod when he nearly killed a 15.2hh hafflinger. He had such a go at her that she ended up with a fractured shoulder. He had been turned out next to her for weeks, had been seen grooming over the fence etc

According to many on here i should continue to shove him out in a herd and let him hurt other horses.

He is not in solitary confinement, he has horses all around him, he can touch noses, have a groom and have a hooley along side others without running the risk of him attempting to kill them for some perceived offence.
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I understand your concern having lost a six year old with an open fracture and my last horse with a nearly fatal kick to the inside of his thigh. There all individual turnout at ours but can all touch and socialise over the fence (mine was surrounded on three sides with horses) and have hay left in the field in winter along with a hay ball. My paddock is huge too, long enough to get a good gallop going.
 
Birker2020 said:
Nope, couldn't care less Rowreach but thanks for your comment :) I was expecting someone to say that, and I wasn't let down.

I intend to keep the next one as I've kept the other two. Our yard is not geared up for herd turnout as I took pains to explain.



The trouble is there are probably more people with horses at home than on livery yards so its not a true reflection of figures anyway.
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I hadn't realised you could click on the options to see the names that had voted, everydays a school day!
So no cheating has gone on.

Even if you just compared *all* the individual turnout votes against people on herd turnout on livery yards, herd turnout is still more popular. Interesting.
 
My 4 horses all leave in a safe, secure herd and have all been together for a very long time, they have a 4 acre field which leads into a 6 acre field, they can then cross over into a 15 acre field. They all live together very happily. One of them though is a solitary boy and whichever field the others are in he prefers to always be in the field furthest away. He isn't bullied, the others don't pester him, but when you watch them, if the others enter the field he's in he'll hang about and then make his way into another field on his own. He just chooses not to have company.
 
The whole notion of risk is interesting here; for some the risk of potential physical injury from interaction with other horses, as would happen naturally, is more significant than the longer term definite physical and psychological risks resulting from individual/separated turnout. I guess you take your choice? Naturally, in settled herds, healthy horses do not beat the c**p out of each other so that scenario suggests a significant level of stress or other driver to that behaviour. That is a bit of a concern isn't it? I have had to introduce horses to a herd at livery, had horses clash with each other etc etc and all of that can be managed to a safe and successful outcome but in some livery and private yards neither the inclination nor the horsemanship exists to achieve that. If people want their horses on individual turn out then so be it; there will be reasons for that but the facts are that this is not the best, even in an imperfect, humanised world, for them. The reliance of facts, science, study is patchy on HHO at best and in this instance distinctly wobbly lol.
 
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