ycbm
Overwhelmed
That article is for beef farm management, where grass is reseeded to maintain maximum calories to feed livestock. Early growth (first 3 years I think, also called new ley) is strongest.
That isn't what you want for horses.
Individual turnout
- Thread starter Birker2020
- Start date
That article is for beef farm management, where grass is reseeded to maintain maximum calories to feed livestock. Early growth (first 3 years I think, also called new ley) is strongest.
That isn't what you want for horses.
JBM
Well-Known Member
You would use different grass for horses obviously but the same principles are there
Faster regrowth rates, better stocking rates and your grass will cope better in autumn and spring.
This gives you a better grazing season length for your horses before they need hay
The newer grass copes better with footfall than the older
And after a cut of hay or for rotational grazing the grass recovery time is reduced
These are good things for cows or horses just the grass species should be different
ycbm
Overwhelmed
You don't want faster growth with horses. Or I should say that I don't and I don't know anyone who has horses and enough of their own land who does.
Faster growth is a second best for too little land for the number of horses.
It isn't true that newer grass copes with hoof wear better, quite the reverse, the longer established the root system the more durable the grass is.
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Faster growth is a second best for too little land for the number of horses.
It isn't true that newer grass copes with hoof wear better, quite the reverse, the longer established the root system the more durable the grass is.
.
Mrs Jingle
Well-Known Member
Ermm.....I am in Ireland in cattle country quoting from teagasc doesn't hold much water around here. The land I am on and all the cattle farms surrounding me have not been reseeded in decades.
We have not had any shortage of grass in my memory, more likely equines need to be brought off the grass as too much rich grass available to them.
Cow land and horse land have some very crucial and important differences for the nutrition and health benefits they need.
Burnttoast
Well-Known Member
Yes this and this is the trouble with tiny livery fields that become overworn, the roots start to die back, patches open up, 'weeds' appear, people spray, the weeds die, then immediately come back. I guess those fields would 'need' reseeding but unless their management were to change subsequently it's just a vicious cycle. 'Old turf' has long been the most prized asset of the horse keeper.
Sussexbythesea
Well-Known Member
Yes I know but you don’t usually get a good reception if you suggest to YO/YM how they should manage their yard. The response would range from ignoring, pretending they were going to do it to anger at the cheek of even mentioning it.
It was a question which you can read whatever you want into it. Perhaps you could “rein” yourself in.
I’ve been on my current yard 13yrs and they’ve never reseeded it. In fact I’ve never been on a yard in my 50 yrs of horse ownership (all livery) that have reseeded whilst I’ve been there. Some have fertilised but not every year. On occasion I’ve bought my own horse friendly paddock seed for the bare patches but to be honest it would be cheaper just to buy extra hay.
Mrs Jingle
Well-Known Member
Sorry cross posted with you ycbm, would have been far easier just to like your post!
ycbm
Overwhelmed
You probably have no idea how much I mourn the 10 acres I left to its own devices for 30 years. It started as majority ryegrass for pregnant and growing sheep. After 30 years it was a haven of wildflower meadow, curlew, lark and hare, too many species of flowers, grass and herbs to count. I could have cried when the buyer mowed it.
GoldenWillow
Well-Known Member
I've kept horses on livery yards, most with group turnout some with individual, rented land and my own land. What I've observed is that there is no one rule fits all and the best management comes from being flexible for horses and their individual needs and especially with livery yards there are other factors involved. My cob and shetland are usually out together but currently shetland is in a smaller bit within cobs area as he needs restricted grazing. I have the shetland as at his owners he constantly fought or bullied her other shetlands to the point of running them through fences, he was relentless. I also can't now run sheep with the ponies as he'll also run them.
I still feel the article about reseeding based on cattle isn't really appropriate for horses. You don't necessarily want better stocking rates like cattle. You can't graze reseeded fields with horses for at the very least a year as the root structure is not developed enough, the newer grass definitely does not cope better with footfall than established pasture unless I've interpreted footfall wrongly. Most the grazing around us, for beef and sheep, has never been reseeded, it is old meadow pasture with a huge variety of grasses and wild flowers and works for the farmer who takes pride in both his land and his stock. In fact most of the farms I know don't regularly reseed, generally only if they have a field with a problem or have had major drainage done. Possibly reseeding is done in more intensive farming but does that make both reseeding and intensive right?
Eta, I'm so slow at typing other posts have explained about the old turf v reseeding better!
I still feel the article about reseeding based on cattle isn't really appropriate for horses. You don't necessarily want better stocking rates like cattle. You can't graze reseeded fields with horses for at the very least a year as the root structure is not developed enough, the newer grass definitely does not cope better with footfall than established pasture unless I've interpreted footfall wrongly. Most the grazing around us, for beef and sheep, has never been reseeded, it is old meadow pasture with a huge variety of grasses and wild flowers and works for the farmer who takes pride in both his land and his stock. In fact most of the farms I know don't regularly reseed, generally only if they have a field with a problem or have had major drainage done. Possibly reseeding is done in more intensive farming but does that make both reseeding and intensive right?
Eta, I'm so slow at typing other posts have explained about the old turf v reseeding better!
JBM
Well-Known Member
I’m not really in the mood to argue the point here
Yes I could’ve found a better article but I wasn’t really bothered to filter through all the cow ones to find a horse related article as it was the benefits of reseeding I was referring to not the type of grass.
I do believe that longer lower quality grass is better for horses. It’s better for their teeth for 1 in my opinion.
I have not stated that reseeding needs to be done every 5 years just that it should be done such as when your field is horribly over grazed as a good number of livery yards are (not all)
But as per usual on this forum if you have a difference of opinion than someone you’re completely wrong!
Ermm.....I am in Ireland in cattle country quoting from teagasc doesn't hold much water around here. The land I am on and all the cattle farms surrounding me have not been reseeded in decades.
I’m also from ireland and live on a farm so I’m not sure what the point of this statement is? Again difference of opinion? Or generation? Since all of us now have to go through teagasc courses to get any grants in farming we may hold a higher opinion
Yes I could’ve found a better article but I wasn’t really bothered to filter through all the cow ones to find a horse related article as it was the benefits of reseeding I was referring to not the type of grass.
I do believe that longer lower quality grass is better for horses. It’s better for their teeth for 1 in my opinion.
I have not stated that reseeding needs to be done every 5 years just that it should be done such as when your field is horribly over grazed as a good number of livery yards are (not all)
But as per usual on this forum if you have a difference of opinion than someone you’re completely wrong!
Ermm.....I am in Ireland in cattle country quoting from teagasc doesn't hold much water around here. The land I am on and all the cattle farms surrounding me have not been reseeded in decades.
I’m also from ireland and live on a farm so I’m not sure what the point of this statement is? Again difference of opinion? Or generation? Since all of us now have to go through teagasc courses to get any grants in farming we may hold a higher opinion
Burnttoast
Well-Known Member
I think I can empathise a little bit as I would find it incredibly hard if I had to sell our land in the future. It's only been six years but it's transformed (and its previous owner, whose bedroom overlooks it, has told me so many times what a good job we've made of it [he rents other land to horse owners so I don't think he was expecting all the stuff we've done
] and last year planted a wood on his remaining land, so I like to think we've done a good thing with it). I love watching the new trees and hedges grow, the sward change and diversify and the new wildlife. I was slowly going mad on livery before that.
Mrs Jingle
Well-Known Member
Oh dear the ageist comments being thrown around yet again JBM. Seems to be quite a favoured response from certain posters recently when they are being disagreed with, work away missy.
JBM
Well-Known Member
I’m not sure what you mean? It’s a law that we have to do courses before we can get certain grants now. It’s a relatively new thing and all the younger farmers now under 30 are coming forth with new breeding programs and grassland management than beforeOh dear the ageist comments being thrown around yet again JBM. Seems to be quite a favoured response from certain posters recently when they are being disagreed with, work away missy.
It’s something like up to 16,000 a year from doing these courses
Currently happening on my own farm where me and my cousins are coming in with new ideas that our parents never got to learn about
I am sorry if I offended you but that’s not what I meant
I do find it interesting that it’s ageist to point out a generational difference of opinion on an organisation when the younger person does it but it’s ok for those older to look down on the younger generations
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JBM
Well-Known Member
Just so you’re aware this is the definition of reseeding
sow (an area of land) with seed, especially grass seed, again.
Sow: plant (seed) by scattering it on or in the earth.
So you have reseeded your pasture
Burnttoast
Well-Known Member
I'd call that overseeding. Reseeding is a much bigger operation as I understand it, as described here https://ahdb.org.uk/news/reseeding-after-a-dry-summer
AmyMay
Situation normal
If the land is good, and not over grazed by any animal / no it doesn’t.
JBM
Well-Known Member
You can use either word but they’re both similar
I would say overseeding is done on an established grass that is already growing but over bald patches I would consider that as reseeding as the grass is no longer growing
It is often a big operation but isn’t required to be
SO1
Well-Known Member
Sussexbythesea
Well-Known Member
I know what reseeding and overseeding means
the point is on top of paying livery for maintained grazing I had to buy seed and do it myself if I wanted any decent grass the next year.
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
You must be devastated, I mean I'm younger than you and apparently I know nothing having been born in 1946Oh dear the ageist comments being thrown around yet again JBM. Seems to be quite a favoured response from certain posters recently when they are being disagreed with, work away missy.
JBM
Well-Known Member
Yes so I’m not sure why you’re saying that my point about grass needing reseeded is bad?I know what reseeding and overseeding means
Since you know the grass your horse is on needed to be reseeded for you to get good grass next year
It seems like you do agree with my point and have reseeded your grass yourself and yet you’re arguing with me?
It just seems like bad grass management from your yo
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
I am a farmer… well married to a retired arable farmer. Reseeding to us is removing the old crop, preparing a seed bed and seeding/drilling a whole area. We had cattle and sheep and horses on the farm too so I’m not talking about wheat fields.
Overseeding is when you patch up areas that need it, or thin bits.
And old ley recovers much, much quicker from poaching than new. My horses lived out on clay so I was sadly well versed in management.
Overseeding is when you patch up areas that need it, or thin bits.
And old ley recovers much, much quicker from poaching than new. My horses lived out on clay so I was sadly well versed in management.
Elf On A Shelf
...
Mine have to be turned out with whatever I put out together. The only exception being the stallions and covering mares are kept separate from anyone else.
Once the jobs done then the girls will back out with whoever the were originally and the boys will have a week or so chill time away from anyone before they rejoin their groups.
Once the jobs done then the girls will back out with whoever the were originally and the boys will have a week or so chill time away from anyone before they rejoin their groups.
Mrs Jingle
Well-Known Member
You have aged so much better than me though.You must be devastated, I mean I'm younger than you and apparently I know nothing having been born in 1946
But it's ok I know my place now, apparently I need to go on a few courses to have a 'higher' opinion than I have now.
Burnttoast
Well-Known Member
That was certainly my understanding so good to have it confirmed
Gloi
Too little time, too much to read.
I'm on a yard where they do individual and pair turnout. There is plenty of grazing and they rotate the fields to give suitable amounts of grass depending on what the horses need.
Mine has had quite a few different companions over the years, but currently doesn't have a constant one and tends to play over the electric tape with others trying to pull fly masks off. He is a bit of a pest for removing masks, headcollars and tail flaps off rugs so he rarely goes out with anyone with a rug on as it gets expensive. He had a great friend earlier in the summer, a 2yo, but he got sold.
Mine has had quite a few different companions over the years, but currently doesn't have a constant one and tends to play over the electric tape with others trying to pull fly masks off. He is a bit of a pest for removing masks, headcollars and tail flaps off rugs so he rarely goes out with anyone with a rug on as it gets expensive. He had a great friend earlier in the summer, a 2yo, but he got sold.
JBM
Well-Known Member
A higher opinion of the teagascYou have aged so much better than me though.
But it's ok I know my place now, apparently I need to go on a few courses to have a 'higher' opinion than I have now.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Ours never has either as ours aren't overgrazed, everyone manages their paddock as they see fit. We have to strip graze as it's such good grazing.
When Lari was back at the yard he went behind my friends fence line as he had to go in a small paddock due to rehab but I wanted enough grass to keep him busy . She's not had her horse on their for a few years as he gets too fat. It was long grass and he did great on it.
Upthecreek
Well-Known Member
If it’s not over-grazed or over-stocked grass generally recovers very well. The yard my boys are at now is very good in terms of rotating and resting paddocks. They harrow them pretty much as soon as the horses move and there is always plenty of grass by the time the horses need to go back. No re-seeding required as far as I know. I pay more than where I previously kept them, but I can totally see how/where the money is spent.
ponynutz
Well-Known Member
We have absolutely terrible grazing and just supplement with hay.
Tbh I've always thought it was more important they were out and stretching their legs than grass quality.
Tbh I've always thought it was more important they were out and stretching their legs than grass quality.