Injured rider

[ester]

…

 

[Tiddlypom]

Re the insurance cover. OP had BHS Gold cover, which has very limited personal accident cover. The OP's injury, although nasty, does not fulfil the criteria for a payout.


In what was the owner allegedly failing to provide a duty of care? The horse slipped on uneven ground. An ambulance was called.

 

[Rocky159]

Post addressed to Busy Mare who may well reconsider this statement.

Owner showed concern at the time? Not sufficient for life-changing injury.

 

[Rocky159]

Again, post addressed to Busy Mare. I’m advising her to take legal advice, not rely on ad hoc forum users. If she does not wish to take up suggestions, all well and good.

 

[PurBee]

Thank you everyone for your replies, insights and sharing of experiences.

Maybe it was just a ‘business agreement’ at the end of the day I was there to help ride her horse, who was a lovely horse and it was a great arrangement that worked well for both parties.

The accident happened, she showed concern at the time, got a new sharer (because at the end of the day she needs help with the horses hence why I was there in the first place) and moved on with her own life.

I’m the one living with this, as some of you have done your homework it was an extremely serious mid foot injury which was not only broken but dislocated too and 4 metatarsals were also broken. This has been pieced back together as well as it can be but will never be the same again. I will have ongoing, stiffness, pain, discomfort and arthritis.

I did not even consider claiming on her insurance, I had my own insurance which I thought would cover for any personal injury but sadly not unless it’s disability, loss of sight, hearing, limbs.

As a previous horse owner and had sharers I would be devastated if my horse injured someone however caused- I understand going round to someone’s house would be awkward but no harm in a few check in messages.

Riding is a dangerous sport of course and is a risk everytime you get in the saddle.

Onwards and upwards and focusing on healing and the people who are there for me hey?!

I agree with others that the owner could have been more caring enquiring about your healing progress - yet what youre feeling about her lack of care is something we all end up facing with others throughout life, about all sorts of things. Its ultimately a good lesson for us to not take too personally the words/actions of others - and relieve ourselves of some inner anguish of all the questioning and reasoning about others words/actions - we learn to get on with whatever our life is, despite the words/actions of others.

Others always have reasons valid to them, for why they behaved and said things. It may not make sense to us, but it makes sense to them. Within such conflict of understanding we can only relieve the issue by having a more detached nature and not hope or demand another sees things how we do.
Ultimately these circumstances teach us we can’t control everything or anyone, and your particular experience is testiment to that, with a horse behaving unpredictably, causing injury, then the owner behaving unpredictably about your accident.
Neither of them, can you control. We’re left with either feeling dejected forever, or we just get on with it…which we always end up doing anyway, as we have little choice but to get on with it!

When this ‘clicks’ with us we stop putting pressure of ‘expectations’ on people, and also on ourselves. We cant ever feel like weve been failed by others or we are failures ourselves if we have an attitude of ’get on with it, try another way’.
I mean all of the above with kindness to help you see a way to clearing from yourself feelings of resentment towards the owner, which really makes you feel crappy, not her.

About your insurance - your foot break sounds complex and severe impeding your mobility for quite some time - does the ‘disability’ clause on your insurance not cover this type of semi-permanent disability? You may have worked on a yard and needing both limbs working well, and you may have to not work for 6 months while you heal and gain full mobility. Surely this is ‘disability’ definition? If it means permanent disability - how is that known today? You may well be limited motion with that foot forever, or you may heal 100% at some point. We, nor the insurance companies have a crystal ball to really know! All you do know is youre disabled NOW, and likely to be for some time, so can that point be validated to your insurers to avail of a claim on your policy?
If not, then is it outside the realms of reasonability for you to enquire with the owner if her policy covered injury to riders of her horses?
These policies sound as useful as a chocolate teapot if in the instance of injury, folk are left ill, not able to work, and penniless!
I’d focus on grinding into an insurance claim if your finances are severely affected by this accident.

 

[ester]

Post addressed to Busy Mare who may well reconsider this statement.

Owner showed concern at the time? Not sufficient for life-changing injury.

except you said this

which is clearly not true given what the OP had said.

If I am right, she has not been in touch since you were taken away in an ambulance? Absolutely vile. The sort of person

 

[Rocky159]

As I understood it (and that’s why I said ‘if I am right’) the owner showed concern at the scene and not thereafter. What have you read that differs from this? ?

 

[ycbm]

Again, post addressed to Busy Mare. I’m advising her to take legal advice, not rely on ad hoc forum users. If she does not wish to take up suggestions, all well and good.

I hope nobody ever takes advice to sue you for an accident which isn't your fault.

Failing to show "sufficient" concern, whether that could even be defined, is no reason to turn someone else's life upside down by suing them. .
.

 

[ycbm]

These policies sound as useful as a chocolate teapot if in the instance of injury, folk are left ill, not able to work, and penniless!

I wish more people understood that unless you are blinded, deafened, die, lose speech or are permanent totally disabled, that is exactly the case for rider injury insurance tacked onto horse policies. And even then the payout is derisory and would barely pay for a good wheelchair.

Personal accident insurance covering less serious injuries than that, especially with loss of income protection, are eyewateringly expensive.
.

 

[Rocky159]

I hope nobody ever takes advice to sue you for an accident which isn't your fault.

Failing to show "sufficient" concern, whether that could even be defined, is no reason to turn someone else's life upside down by suing them. .
.

We’ll agree to disagree. The owner may well have a good insurance policy which could cover OP. This wouldn’t require her life to change at all. Certainly if I had external riders riding my horses I would have a good insurance policy.

 

[ycbm]

We’ll agree to disagree. The owner may well have a good insurance policy which could cover OP. This wouldn’t require her life to change at all. Certainly if I had external riders riding my horses I would have a good insurance policy.

No insurer will pay out to a third party without liability for the injuries. Inevitably this will require proof of liability which would be likely to be fought out in court which would be a hugely stressful process for most people.

The OP says neither the horse nor the owner were liable, why is that not enough for you?

I hope this never happens to you.
.

 

[Tiddlypom]

So you're trying to persude the OP to pursue a claim for her injury and financial losses from the owner even though it was a no fault accident?

Please don't add to the OP's woes by feeding her misinformation.

Vexatious poster alert.

 

[Fieldlife]

We’ll agree to disagree. The owner may well have a good insurance policy which could cover OP. This wouldn’t require her life to change at all. Certainly if I had external riders riding my horses I would have a good insurance policy.

You can get good third party insurance for other people riding your horse. You cannot typically get good personal accident cover for external riders.

You can inform them in writing that your insurance does not cover them for personal accident, advise them to take out their own cover (or even insist they do, though most cover is limited, I think the evidenced act of telling them must take out on cover does protect you a bit more), and state that horses are unpredictable and riding carries risk, and riding is done at their risk. And get them to sign. Can offer a bit more protection and manage expectations.

However if owner was negligent e.g. failed to mention history of horse bucking riders off, I think they could still be held liable through a court claim for an accident. Hence why need to be careful who let ride your horse. But a non fault accident, I dont think there is any way to claim for.

 

[Rocky159]

This is my last reply except to the OP. I am offering options which she may well wish to consider now that her injury has proven to be serious enough to affect the rest of her life. I am not ‘persuading’ nor am I speaking to you or any other posters. Mind your own business.

 

[ycbm]

This is my last reply except to the OP. I am offering options which she may well wish to consider now that her injury has proven to be serious enough to affect the rest of her life. I am not ‘persuading’ nor am I speaking to you or any other posters. Mind your own business.

There is a PM function if you wish to offer bad and unfair advice to a poster without any other poster being able to comment.
.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Busy Mare - I think you are being very reasonable, however I think the owner’s behaviour has been reprehensible. If I am right, she has not been in touch since you were taken away in an ambulance? Absolutely vile. The sort of person, who like one of the posters, expects grooms and sharers to go in and out of her life with zero input from her.

Firstly, I would strongly pursue your insurer, with the help of medical and/or legal professionals, as I am sure your injury counts/will count as being disabled.

Secondly, I would pay for at least one meeting with a suitable solicitor to discuss your legal position. The owner owed you a ‘duty of care’. It is very possible (as another poster described) to prove that she was in breach of this. Even if you decided not to go further along this path, a strongly worded solicitor’s letter suggesting a compensation figure for which you would not pursue the case, could reap rewards.

Hopefully you are at least receiving SSP from work. If applicable, look into Universal Credit and disability benefit.

Perhaps in other circumstances you would not consider the above, but she has treated you VERY BADLY, and deserves all she gets.

Good luck ??

You are not right, in that the owner has apparently been in touch for the initial period of time while the sharer was in hospital. The OP obviously couldn’t continue the share and the owner got a new sharer. The OP is asking about visiting or messaging in the 6 months since.

And you’re making some big assumptions about liability too. The sharer has said the horse slipped while she was riding out, and it was a total accident. The horse hasn’t done anything to cause that accident, and the insurance and liability arrangements will likely be covered off by the parties in their contract.

I assume that the absolutely vile poster who expects people to go in and out of their life ‘with zero input’ is me. I genuinely can’t see why I would be so vile for being philosophical about people coming and going - they do, it’s hardly an unusual fact of life!

I have had all sorts of lovely people ride my horses or groom for me, or give me their horses to ride over the last 25 years. I’m probably still in touch with less than half of them.

It’s a horse riding situation, not a marriage. Some will go on to get their own horses, or go traveling or have a family. Sometimes the horse has needed to be retired or I’ve moved.

Anyone who rides for me gets lovely, well mannered horses. I pay for their shows, their transport to shows, lessons and clinics, the kit for the horse. I usually pay the rider too, as it’s the exercise my horses need and I’m grateful for the help. That must make me a terrible person indeed.

Anyone I’ve ridden horses for has had them treated like gold, their kit looked after, their generosity deeply appreciated - but I don’t expect them to maintain contact with me forever if I’m no longer riding their horse.

I don’t know why this qualifies as reprehensible and vile behavior in your book. In mine, it’s just about being easy going and allowing people to have their sport without turning it into a highly intensive social situation.

 

[PurBee]

I wish more people understood that unless you are blinded, deafened, die, lose speech or are permanent totally disabled, that is exactly the case for rider injury insurance tacked onto horse policies. And even then the payout is derisory and would barely pay for a good wheelchair.

Personal accident insurance covering less serious injuries than that, especially with loss of income protection, are eyewateringly expensive.
.

Yes, the bhs insurance looks financially inadequate even if those injuries listed were experienced. The vast majority of accidents are temporary disability while recovery takes places, so the bhs policy as listed on this thread, is useless in this regard and i would not pay for.

I’d get a serious policy, and one that covers accidents - i.e there’s no ‘liability’ to prove, loss was incurred, that loss can be proven, and the policy covers for that.

I had a public/buildings and personal insurance all-in-one policy when working on building sites for several millions, that covered me accidentally blowing the building up, accidentally causing injury/death of another worker/member of public, breakages of precious ming vases, and even just slipping over, putting my back out and loss of income. It was only a couple of hundred + a year. At the time i thought it was insanely cheap considering what i was covered for, and the vast pay-outs, but this was 15yrs ago, perhaps the insurance sector has changed a lot.
A friend who works a dangerous physical job with potential for destroying property/lives has a policy as a sole trader thats relatively cheap, considering what it covers.

Maybe because it’s a work policy, different industry, not recreational, they are cheaper? Are the equine policies renowned for being mostly useless and very expensive if useful?

I’ve no idea about equine policies, if its for ‘recreational cover’ - i’d want one that covered loss of earnings due to accidents as a priority clause.

My post wasnt insinuating the op sues the owner for injury, and prove the owner is liable when op clearly stated neither horse or owner are. If - a big if, by the sounds of it - if the policy of either owner or OP covers temp disability/loss of income, its worth persuing…but not if that means having to prove blame - thats inane, stressful, time-consuming.
As mentioned upthread, someone else encouraged the injured party to claim on their policy, so i took that to mean some policies do cover for accident/injury that arent permanently life-changing, and a claim can be made amicably.

 

[ycbm]

I’d get a serious policy, and one that covers accidents - i.e there’s no ‘liability’ to prove, loss was incurred, that loss can be proven, and the policy covers for that.

I believe I'm right in saying that you can only cover your own losses under those policies. You wouldn't, for example, be able to obtain a payout for a rider of your horse if there was no liability on your part for the accident. Riders have to obtain that insurance for themselves and very few people do because it's so expensive.
.

 

[AmyMay]

It says the owner showed concern at the time.
I wouldn’t expect more than that tbh.

And that messages of enquiry were sent.

 

[Izzwall]

I have recently been in a similar situation with the exact same injury. Crushed midfoot and fractured lisfranc joint. Its a horrible injury and I really feel for you! I couldn't walk for 4 months, have had to give up my career as a groom too. Seeing the surgeon next month to see if they decide to operate, it proper sucks! Mine was a freak accident when leading in a client's horse. I told said client what happened and did get a message back just saying sorry. And that was it. No check up messages, no chocolates or flowers. When I was finally able to drive again I went to the yard and saw her and had minimal acknowledgement. Thankfully I was insured via the British grooms so still got paid but nowhere near how much I normally earned so had to rely on family to help get me by. I don't blame the horse at all and it was an accident but I was a bit disappointed with the lack of response. Only one of my friends visited me when I was stuck in my house months on end so that was a huge blow too. Not sure what advice I can give apart from virtual hugs, wouldn't wish a midfoot/lisfranc injury on anyone.

P.s I'm back riding now 8/9 months post injury, changing my stirrups has been a game changer! It's not perfect and I haven't gone for a fast hack yet but it's a start!

Oh and another thing, if you have Facebook I highly recommend the lisfranc injury support group, they really helped me through my down days when I felt I was never going to walk again.

 

[Abi90]

I agree with others that the owner could have been more caring enquiring about your healing progress - yet what youre feeling about her lack of care is something we all end up facing with others throughout life, about all sorts of things. Its ultimately a good lesson for us to not take too personally the words/actions of others - and relieve ourselves of some inner anguish of all the questioning and reasoning about others words/actions - we learn to get on with whatever our life is, despite the words/actions of others.

Others always have reasons valid to them, for why they behaved and said things. It may not make sense to us, but it makes sense to them. Within such conflict of understanding we can only relieve the issue by having a more detached nature and not hope or demand another sees things how we do.
Ultimately these circumstances teach us we can’t control everything or anyone, and your particular experience is testiment to that, with a horse behaving unpredictably, causing injury, then the owner behaving unpredictably about your accident.
Neither of them, can you control. We’re left with either feeling dejected forever, or we just get on with it…which we always end up doing anyway, as we have little choice but to get on with it!

When this ‘clicks’ with us we stop putting pressure of ‘expectations’ on people, and also on ourselves. We cant ever feel like weve been failed by others or we are failures ourselves if we have an attitude of ’get on with it, try another way’.
I mean all of the above with kindness to help you see a way to clearing from yourself feelings of resentment towards the owner, which really makes you feel crappy, not her.

About your insurance - your foot break sounds complex and severe impeding your mobility for quite some time - does the ‘disability’ clause on your insurance not cover this type of semi-permanent disability? You may have worked on a yard and needing both limbs working well, and you may have to not work for 6 months while you heal and gain full mobility. Surely this is ‘disability’ definition? If it means permanent disability - how is that known today? You may well be limited motion with that foot forever, or you may heal 100% at some point. We, nor the insurance companies have a crystal ball to really know! All you do know is youre disabled NOW, and likely to be for some time, so can that point be validated to your insurers to avail of a claim on your policy?
If not, then is it outside the realms of reasonability for you to enquire with the owner if her policy covered injury to riders of her horses?
These policies sound as useful as a chocolate teapot if in the instance of injury, folk are left ill, not able to work, and penniless!
I’d focus on grinding into an insurance claim if your finances are severely affected by this accident.

Absolutely this. People’s actions have very little to do with you and more to do with them and makes sense to them.

Even if she had showered you in flowers and chocolates and checked up on you every 5 minutes then it would likely be to do with her own guilt or something similar and very little to do with you.

The same as your feeling abandoned by her actions has more to do with your own worries and belief system than her actions themselves.

It’s a massive mental health game changer to be able to let stuff go and realise it has nothing to do with your own worth.

 

[Red-1]

Busy Mare - I think you are being very reasonable, however I think the owner’s behaviour has been reprehensible. If I am right, she has not been in touch since you were taken away in an ambulance? Absolutely vile. The sort of person, who like one of the posters, expects grooms and sharers to go in and out of her life with zero input from her.

Firstly, I would strongly pursue your insurer, with the help of medical and/or legal professionals, as I am sure your injury counts/will count as being disabled.

Secondly, I would pay for at least one meeting with a suitable solicitor to discuss your legal position. The owner owed you a ‘duty of care’. It is very possible (as another poster described) to prove that she was in breach of this. Even if you decided not to go further along this path, a strongly worded solicitor’s letter suggesting a compensation figure for which you would not pursue the case, could reap rewards.

Hopefully you are at least receiving SSP from work. If applicable, look into Universal Credit and disability benefit.

Perhaps in other circumstances you would not consider the above, but she has treated you VERY BADLY, and deserves all she gets.

Good luck ??

Gosh, I had just relaxed enough to allow a few people to ride Rigs, this makes me realise why I didn't, for many years, allow anyone to ride my home horses.

It sounds like the owner did offer duty of care, as the rider has stated that it wasn't the horse's fault or the owner's. It was a freak accident, as far as OP is concerned.

It is the part where you suggest that, even if OP doesn't feel it right to 'go further along this path' that they, seemingly, should hold the owner to ransom with 'a strongly worded solicitor’s letter suggesting a compensation figure for which you would not pursue the case' that is upsetting.

For a life changing injury, someone claiming off my insurance wouldn't upset me at all. But, if they thought there was no wrongdoing, I don't think that insurance would pay out. Then, to get a ransom letter seeking to rip money off me so I could avoid the stress of someone trying seems cruel.

Also, suggesting that you wouldn't have taken this action if the owner had called and brought flowers (ort whatever other platitudes you would have found to be up to your standard) seems retaliatory, which is never a good basis for starting legal action.

To make a case, the owner would presumably need to have done something wrong, such as knowingly led the rider out onto ice, or not having shod the horse in a timely manner (or with suitable shoes/or foot well trimmed), or know about a medical condition that would cause tripping/slipping/falling to be more likely.

Nothing wrong with having a conversation with a solicitor, but I would be wary of spending too much money on it as it sounds unlikely to succeed.

You have to be really careful who you allow onto your horse, and no wonder people are wary of sharers!