Interesting comment from vet re cost of living

[Regandal]

I would like another horse, but have decided against it with the rising costs. I like that I can give the current incumbent everything he needs without worrying.

 

[spacefaer]

Where does he suggest the animals that are parted with go?

Well, the conversation came about because we are selling one of ours - not from rising costs tbf, but because of changing priorities. The one we are selling is going to someone who currently doesn't have a horse ?

 

[The Bouncing Bog Trotter]

I've gone from 4 to 1 to zero. I wasn't enjoying horses anymore and the current and future economic situation helped make my decision that a break from horse ownership may not be a bad thing. Hopefully one day I will get the owning mojo back: for the time being I shall enjoy horse ownership vicariously through this group.

 

[Nari]

Am I odd in being quite happy just having one? Ok if I kept at home he'd have a companion, but that's the most I'd want.

 

[Lamehorses]

Surely that is a no brainer. Less animals mean less cost - however, life isn’t that simple. Once you let an animal into your life they become a family member. So going on the “vets” advice, is he suggesting reducing family numbers as well? ?

I've recently rehomed a friends dogs as she was getting divorced & to quote her 'too many animals & children, but don't suppose you'll take the kids' ?

 

[SO1]

One is plenty for me too. I don't have the time or money for more than one.

Most of the people I know with multiple horses have their own land.

Am I odd in being quite happy just having one? Ok if I kept at home he'd have a companion, but that's the most I'd want.

 

[The Irish Draft 2022]

I say vets are afraid that people won’t bother doing investigations or won’t be able to afford the treatments . The cost of living is going up crazy we could be going into a recession and a lot of people won’t be able to keep there horses. It not a vet place to be telling people this it’s very rude in my opinion.

 

[SEL]

Am I odd in being quite happy just having one? Ok if I kept at home he'd have a companion, but that's the most I'd want.

It's fine if you have one with 4 working legs, or a companion that will stay home alone without another companion

(Or if you just feel like buying a youngster or are a soft touch for other people's rejects!)

 

[milliepops]

It's fine if you have one with 4 working legs, or a companion that will stay home alone without another companion

(Or if you just feel like buying a youngster or are a soft touch for other people's rejects!)

yeah. I had just one for many years, then got the opportunity to have another when the first was broken, she ended up staying, that's how it starts

Sometimes i'd love to be back to just the one. but 2 at livery is so much easier from a logistics POV, and i like being able to keep my broken ones ticking along and still have something to ride.

I have seen a few people saying they've given up their pet insurance due to the COL and i have personally let one of my horse policies lapse (though that's partly due to the increased exclusions making it pointless). My horses don't go without vet treatment but i would imagine vets might start to see more difficult choices coming up for owners.

 

[SO1]

I agree insurance premiums are rising and the cost of vet bills will go up due to increase in costs.

I have been insured for the last 15 years and the max per incident is 5k and that has not changed despite inflation and increased costs of treatments and diagnostics. One month of ulcer treatment is nearly 2k, 5k is soon gone.

How many horse owners have savings that cover a huge vet bill. 3 coilc calls outs on a weekend came to nearly £1300, understandably the costs of having a vet on call 24 hours a day is significant and I glad there was someone available to save his life.

I have a veteran pony he is 20 and an only pony his vet bills for the impaction and ulcers may easily reach 10K. How many people actually have that sort of money put aside for emergencies? I have been been careful over the last 15 to put money aside for treatments that insurance may not cover.

Over those years I have had comments about my cheap tack, that I should have weekly lessons and that I am tight with my money etc that I spend too much time working in a stressful job with long hours, but what I have done over the years is ensure that I have money for vets bills to cover life saving treatments that won't be covered by insurance.

I still could lose my pony if it turns out the impaction was due to a problem with his stomach no longer working properly.

High net worth individuals and people with lots of horses are not always the big spenders at vet practices it often the people with one equine who is desperate to keep that individual going.

My vets think a lot of people who loose horses will not replace them. If I am in the sad situation where I have to PTS as he a problem with his stomach I won't be looking to replace him in the near future and may not get other horse again. My parents are in their 80s and need help and I cannot leave that all to my sister so will have less time for horses and the cost as well of horse keeping on part livery.

I also think modern life and work makes DIY livery hard to manage. People are going to start needing well paid jobs to be able to afford DIY and most jobs like that may require extra hours at short notice or be inflexible that may not be compatible with horses on DIY especially if a horse is on box rest or needs complex management due to a medical condition.

I have seen a few people saying they've given up their pet insurance due to the COL and i have personally let one of my horse policies lapse (though that's partly due to the increased exclusions making it pointless). My horses don't go without vet treatment but i would imagine vets might start to see more difficult choices coming up for owners.

I say vets are afraid that people won’t bother doing investigations or won’t be able to afford the treatments . The cost of living is going up crazy we could be going into a recession and a lot of people won’t be able to keep there horses. It not a vet place to be telling people this it’s very rude in my opinion.

 

[spacefaer]

I say vets are afraid that people won’t bother doing investigations or won’t be able to afford the treatments . The cost of living is going up crazy we could be going into a recession and a lot of people won’t be able to keep there horses. It not a vet place to be telling people this it’s very rude in my opinion.

It was a general comment, made in casual conversation with no intent to be rude.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

TBH if a horse isn’t saleable / find a secure home-able and some one has too many horses, PTS is not the worst option.

Better for someone who is struggling financially to have the number of horses they can look after properly than have too many and all suffer from lack of having basics met.

Setting aside the obvious euthanasia option (and also the hurdles which owners may face in accessing it for any animal not already halfway dead; don't let's pretend that it's simply available on demand), who will the saleable horses be sold to? Where are all of these potential buyers who won't themselves be affected by the cost of living crisis?

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Crikey, just looked at Danilon, it seems to have gone up 50p a sachet since I last bought it before Christmas. I was giving 2 a day, that’s huge. ?

 

[chocolategirl]

Every time I see a horse advertised that tempts me I remember the costs of things at the moment and suddenly the feeling passes ?

And yet the sale prices are still high ?

 

[paddy555]

I agree insurance premiums are rising and the cost of vet bills will go up due to increase in costs.

I suspect many with multiple horses will not insure either in the past or with the current COL increases. Partly because insuring several horses is not cost effective and probably because they have a different viewpoint. I have 8 and the COL increases makes no difference to me at all. The horses are at home so the cost per horse is pretty minimal. If I had one less it wouldn't make much difference nor one more.

I wonder if people with multiples (not 2 or 3) but larger numbers work on the same basis that I do which is that I am old, have had horses for a long time and can perhaps take a wider viewpoint?

My vet costs are low (or as much as I want them to be) as I keep my horse vets firmly under control and I know exactly what I want and am prepared to do for a horse.

My dog is insured, so far he has cost the insurance over 10k and this will carry on. His monthly meds are over £300. Vet is happy to charge for them at inflated prices and insurance happy to fund them. They keep each over going on this merry go round. I try to find out from the vets what is happening ie on a detailed clinical level. They are not particularly friendly. I apply horse logic to the situation ie I want to know so I(not them) can decide the best way forward and what can be justified in terms of dog welfare. Their only interest in me is that I pay the premiums. I recently highlighted a problem to them and asked for a specific course of tablets which I knew were necessary. They refused. I moved the dog to a different vet in that large practice. Someone I have known for years even though they are only a general vet.. He told me he didn't have the expertise of their specialist dog vets. I told him he had common sense and that would do. We are getting along fine. The dog got his tablets and that part of the problem resolved. I wonder if some single horse owners get treated in the same way by their vets as I was. ie a ticket to money.

That is what I apply to horses. If I have say a lame horse (leaving aside things such as abscesses) I work on the old fashioned treatment of rest. At the end of the day there are endless scans etc etc but the one treatment many horse owners don't like is rest. I won't box rest. It is far too stressful. (obviously for a few days for a specific problem is different) to me, and others I know, it is a case of out in the field, Dr Green and look again in 6 months. If the horse gets to a stage with that where it's life's quality is too poor it will be PTS. It won't have suffered being restricted for weeks or months on end, being subject to endless treatments and the problem is not resolved. If it has a reasonable QOL it will be retired which has minimal cost ( I appreciate you have to keep horses at home to do that cheaply)
For that same situation if someone said give me 10k, box rest for 2 weeks and it will be cured I would obviously pay up.

If I have a horse with colic I will not go on endlessly. For example I had a 27yo horse, never had colic but got very bad one night. Rang vet, whilst he was on his way I said to OH I don't think this is going to end well, he agreed PTS immed. Vet arrived, told him to PTS, he said he didn't think he was coming out to PTS, I told him he could inject the horse and it may resolve it but we would be in the same position in a couple of nights, and again and again. Or we could PTS a horse that was in real agony. If I had listened to the vet we could have been off to horse hospital, operated etc and I doubt the outcome would have been different just longer discomfort for the horse. I'm sure the insurance company would have paid if he had beeninsured but I didn't feel it would be a good outcome for the horse.

I am one of the last to PTS horses, I wouldn't PTS for behavioural issues and many other conditions where people's responses on here is PTS. However I do try to be realistic about the modern vet treatments available and it they are the best option for mine.
I am not for one moment saying insurance and endless vet treatments are wrong, that is up to the owner, I am just trying to comment on your post about COL, insurance rising and vets fees.

 

[chocolategirl]

Sydney. Please come - we are so short on talent post pandemic. I work for a global firm and have just offered jobs to 1 from Ireland, 1 from Scotland, 2 from Norway and 4 from our London office. I’ve had to pay above average salaries, relocation fees and a sign on bonus but very pleased to get them.

We have record low unemployment, can’t find staff, skills or talent. We do also have inflation but no where near that of the UK.

Go have a look at the work Visa process if you are up for a change and opportunity to accelerate your career.

In your opinion, what do you think is the issue with finding people to fill posts? In the UK, this is almost solely blamed on brexit, so what’s the reason it’s the same in Australia? I have a friend who lives in the US and it’s every bit as bad over there, so what on earth is going on? If people aren’t working, they DEFINITELY won’t be able to afford their horses will they??

 

[SO1]

If vet treatment is unaffordable but daily costs of a sound horse are affordable people may PTS and then buy another if horse prices drop.

In my case 10K vet bills would buy me something decent but I am choosing to spend that money on trying to save my veteran and if that fails I won't buy another horse as I won't have the funds to do so.

I would not buy another horse unless I had enough money for purchase and emergency vet treatment for the first 14 days before the insurance kicks in as I think that would be irresponsible. It would probably take me several years to build up a fund again.

Setting aside the obvious euthanasia option (and also the hurdles which owners may face in accessing it for any animal not already halfway dead; don't let's pretend that it's simply available on demand), who will the saleable horses be sold to? Where are all of these potential buyers who won't themselves be affected by the cost of living crisis?

 

[BronsonNutter]

We had the discussion at work just a few weeks ago that it seems like more owners are PTSing horses who are not able to be ridden, rather than just retiring them. Can only assume cost must be coming in to it somewhere.

I'm certainly not in any rush to go back up to two horses having lost Baby TB - every month I was only ever breaking even, and that was without inflation continuing to spiral.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I suspect the vet knows how many horse owners are on a financial knife edge especially the multiple horse owners.

I'm not sure how they would know that unless they have customers who can't pay their bills.

 

[Squeak]

I'm not sure how they would know that unless they have customers who can't pay their bills.

I reckon there are a lot of vets who have to chase for bills or have conversations about what is financially feasible treatment wise for customers.

 

[milliepops]

I reckon there are a lot of vets who have to chase for bills or have conversations about what is financially feasible treatment wise for customers.

i would think the subject comes up frequently. one of my uninsured ones was injured last year and vet wanted to whisk off for tendon sheath taps etc and the financial envelope available came up straight away in the discussion.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Setting aside the obvious euthanasia option (and also the hurdles which owners may face in accessing it for any animal not already halfway dead; don't let's pretend that it's simply available on demand), who will the saleable horses be sold to? Where are all of these potential buyers who won't themselves be affected by the cost of living crisis?

It most certainly is available on demand, just ring the knackerman or a local hunt.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I reckon there are a lot of vets who have to chase for bills or have conversations about what is financially feasible treatment wise for customers.

When I am looking at treatment options, I am guided by what is best for the animal's quality of life, not the cost of treatment. We don't insure either dogs or horses and am not prepared to put horses through prolonged periods of boxrest but I suppose the vet might think that cost is the over-riding factor

 

[TPO]

I don't insure but thats my choice. My vet asks if they are insured and when I say no they offer slightly less costly alternatives.

I purposely don't insure but do have access to funds for vet bills. I've said to my vet that the insurance thing is a choice and my only perogative is the best care for the horse so in that respect money isn't the issue.

I know from general chit chat on his many (!) visits that they have clients who try to take the "cheaper option" with blue spray and honey that they only get called to when things get much worse. Having to deal with that situation is more costly and less successful than if they'd just called the vet initially.

So yes cost does seem to be an issue for the "blue spray brigade"* who make decisions based on finances and not horse welfare

* nothing against blue spray, it definitely has its place. I just personally know people who've had serious wire injuries and cuts over joints but have chosen blue spray when it should have been a vet call.

I'm sure those that were in the situation are only going to end up deeper in it as the COL crisis worsens.

I don't see anything rude with what this vet said and it seems like extremely obvious common sense.

 

[Fieldlife]

Setting aside the obvious euthanasia option (and also the hurdles which owners may face in accessing it for any animal not already halfway dead; don't let's pretend that it's simply available on demand), who will the saleable horses be sold to? Where are all of these potential buyers who won't themselves be affected by the cost of living crisis?

It is available on demand. I’ve had horses shot (on end of life grounds) but there are no barriers or checks to calling out someone licensed to dispatch and collect and no barriers to getting them to do the deed.

 

[Shilasdair]

It most certainly is available on demand, just ring the knackerman or a local hunt.

This isn't strictly true; knackermen or the hunt will only take horses with edible meat. My two have both had general anaesthetic - and this renders them toxic for the food chain so I'd have to pay to have them PTS by the vet - and for disposal/cremation of the carcase which could be upwards of £1k each.

 

[TPO]

Mine are all signed out of the food chain. I don't get ashes back so mine have all went to the incinerator via the knackerman after vet has pts. This costs £252 (* edited * after I checked bank statement. It was £500 all in for vet to pts by injection and knackers to uplift Feb 2021) for uplift and disposal.

The service for the knackerman to pts and/or uplift is definitely available "on demand" for animals not fit for/signed out of the food chain.

 

[rabatsa]

This isn't strictly true; knackermen or the hunt will only take horses with edible meat. My two have both had general anaesthetic - and this renders them toxic for the food chain so I'd have to pay to have them PTS by the vet - and for disposal/cremation of the carcase which could be upwards of £1k each.

All four of mine taken by the knackerman in the last year have been signed out of the food chain. He did not even ask so I offered the information and he said that they no longer even do pet food as the regulations were so strict.

The local hounds are fed kibble and any horses that they despatch are sent for incinerating.

 

[dorsetladette]

It's fine if you have one with 4 working legs, or a companion that will stay home alone without another companion

(Or if you just feel like buying a youngster or are a soft touch for other people's rejects!)

I've started collecting other people rejects. I'm hoping the babies get through winter with good hay and good rugs. My first winter in a long time with 3 is a big worry. the OAP is going to need a fair bit of extra care this year and I'm not sure how it's going to hit me financially (negatively obviously). How far do you take these things before calling it a day in a horse who isn't ridden anymore.

 

[Fieldlife]

This isn't strictly true; knackermen or the hunt will only take horses with edible meat. My two have both had general anaesthetic - and this renders them toxic for the food chain so I'd have to pay to have them PTS by the vet - and for disposal/cremation of the carcase which could be upwards of £1k each.

Not true. Knackerman takes all horses, and charge the same. Think it’s £250 or there abouts. Certainly the local one here takes horses signed out of food chain.