Interesting comment from vet re cost of living

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

This isn't strictly true; knackermen or the hunt will only take horses with edible meat. My two have both had general anaesthetic - and this renders them toxic for the food chain so I'd have to pay to have them PTS by the vet - and for disposal/cremation of the carcase which could be upwards of £1k each.

This not my experience, they will burn the body. I have only ever had 2 horses pts by the vet, who had been involved in their care immediately prior to the decision. All the others have been shot, no questions asked, after discussion with a vet, by either knackerman, equine crem or hunt. I even once took a dog who had died suddenly at home to a local hunt for disposal.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

It most certainly is available on demand, just ring the knackerman or a local hunt.

I was referring to veterinary euthanasia, which would be the method that I and all of my current fellow liveries would opt for. Unfortunately, around here that involves getting past the vehemently pro-life receptionist before you can even speak to the vet. The vet himself is great; he's kind, pragmatic, and supportive of owners. I have encountered some vets who aren't, and who push to preserve life beyond a point that I'm comfortable with. Hence my putting up with the receptionist in question.

As it happens, I have absolutely no idea how to contact our local hunt or knackerman. I don't even know who they are, or whereabouts they're based. I don't think that anyone on our yard does. Our YO always helps with arranging the collection and disposal of any deceased horses, but he doesn't know how to contact the hunt. I know this, from when we discussed the disposal options for my young cob who died suddenly back in 2018. He might know how to contact a knackerman, but I'm not sure that the reactions from some of our current fellow liveries to us using a knackerman would be something that my husband would cope with mentally or emotionally. I suspect that they wouldn't be okay with us getting the hunt out either. The euthanasia by vet route is just about acceptable.

People are weird about death.

(NB, this is all academic for me - I'm not planning on killing any of our animals to save money, in case anyone reading this is worrying!)

 

[milliepops]

In case it helps anyone this website is connected to the fallen stock scheme and can help find contacts if not going through a vet

https://www.equine-endoflife.co.uk/equine-services/

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I was referring to veterinary euthanasia, which would be the method that I and all of my current fellow liveries would opt for. Unfortunately, around here that involves getting past the vehemently pro-life receptionist before you can even speak to the vet. The vet himself is great; he's kind, pragmatic, and supportive of owners. I have encountered some vets who aren't, and who push to preserve life beyond a point that I'm comfortable with. Hence my putting up with the receptionist in question.

As it happens, I have absolutely no idea how to contact our local hunt or knackerman. I don't even know who they are, or whereabouts they're based. I don't think that anyone on our yard does. Our YO always helps with arranging the collection and disposal of any deceased horses, but he doesn't know how to contact the hunt. I know this, from when we discussed the disposal options for my young cob who died suddenly back in 2018. He might know how to contact a knackerman, but I'm not sure that the reactions from some of our current fellow liveries to us using a knackerman would be something that my husband would cope with mentally or emotionally. I suspect that they wouldn't be okay with us getting the hunt out either. The euthanasia by vet route is just about acceptable.

People are weird about death.

(NB, this is all academic for me - I'm not planning on killing any of our animals to save money, in case anyone reading this is worrying!)

When my horses were in livery I didn't give a stuff what other liveries thought about what I did. As it happens I only had one pony pts (by the vet) while there and the YO was a retired farmer, so would have been realistic anyway.

 

[TPO]

If vets are refusing to pts and prolonging the life of an animal against thr owners wishes then they should be reported.

A "Pro life" receptionist is ridiculous and a frankly pathetic excuse for someone not pursuing pts is that is what is required. Anyone who isn't performing the duties of their job role correctly should be pts.

Its not hard to Google to find a local slaughterhouse. They visit all areas and are collecting stock from farms on a daily basis.

If someone doesn't have a hunt in their area then they don't have a hunt. There will always be the option of the vet or knackerman.

Any vet will be able to give contact details for a carcass to be uplifted.

Honestly some of the stuff that gets written on here is absurd

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

In case it helps anyone this website is connected to the fallen stock scheme and can help find contacts if not going through a vet

https://www.equine-endoflife.co.uk/equine-services/

I can also recommend Yorkshire Equine Crematorium, which started life as a local small abattoir and is still run by the same family.

 

[MuddyMonster]

In case it helps anyone this website is connected to the fallen stock scheme and can help find contacts if not going through a vet

https://www.equine-endoflife.co.uk/equine-services/

Thank you.

I hope I don't need that any time soon but have bookmarked it just in case.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Kitt is in NI or Ireland, I think?

 

[Fieldlife]

I was referring to veterinary euthanasia, which would be the method that I and all of my current fellow liveries would opt for. Unfortunately, around here that involves getting past the vehemently pro-life receptionist before you can even speak to the vet. The vet himself is great; he's kind, pragmatic, and supportive of owners. I have encountered some vets who aren't, and who push to preserve life beyond a point that I'm comfortable with. Hence my putting up with the receptionist in question.

As it happens, I have absolutely no idea how to contact our local hunt or knackerman. I don't even know who they are, or whereabouts they're based. I don't think that anyone on our yard does. Our YO always helps with arranging the collection and disposal of any deceased horses, but he doesn't know how to contact the hunt. I know this, from when we discussed the disposal options for my young cob who died suddenly back in 2018. He might know how to contact a knackerman, but I'm not sure that the reactions from some of our current fellow liveries to us using a knackerman would be something that my husband would cope with mentally or emotionally. I suspect that they wouldn't be okay with us getting the hunt out either. The euthanasia by vet route is just about acceptable.

What an odd response. ""Euthanasia by vet is just about acceptable""?????. I make the decisions on my horses' best interests and welfare needs. Other liveries' thoughts on the manner of dispatch is irrelevant. It is me that has to know I did right by my horse.

Knackersmen tend to be very good at their job and far more experienced at quick stress free dispatch than vets are. I am sure there can be night mare death experiences in all scenarios, but there are advantages if it is a planned death, in having someone who dispatches every day and is very good at it. And very used to it.

The horses I have sadly had PTS went at 6am when no other liveries around to witness (nothing to do with choice of method just I didnt want anyone else to have to see body).

The horses went calmly with noses in buckets. A knackersman is a professional and an animal person.

 

[Shilasdair]

Mine are all signed out of the food chain. I don't get ashes back so mine have all went to the incinerator via the knackerman after vet has pts. This costs £252 (* edited * after I checked bank statement. It was £500 all in for vet to pts by injection and knackers to uplift Feb 2021) for uplift and disposal.

The service for the knackerman to pts and/or uplift is definitely available "on demand" for animals not fit for/signed out of the food chain.

Perhaps it depends where you live.
I do worry a little though, that the £500 might even be too much for a suddenly unemployed owner to afford, for example.

 

[milliepops]

the website i linked earlier gives indicative quotes of around £250 in my area for pts and collection of a horse. (glos)

eta. i've mentioned it before but if ££ is a consideration - may be worth contacting local vet schools if you live near one. I had one pts earlier this year and they collected him for use in teaching at no cost, i just paid the vet fees. a friend had been told they were always in need of horses so i felt like it was a small positive on a sad day, that he would be useful to the next generation of vets.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Perhaps it depends where you live.
I do worry a little though, that the £500 might even be too much for a suddenly unemployed owner to afford, for example.

Our 2 different most local knacker firms are around £250 +/- to bullet and remove (no, it doesn't matter if in or out of food chain). Home counties.
Still same cost from knacker companies to just collect after vet despatched by IV. Vet charges are around £250/300 for PTS, tho due to rises in drugs cost, this is likely to go more too.

Both knacker companies and hunt require full payment up front though. vet will invoice (mine invoices weekly)

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Perhaps it depends where you live.
I do worry a little though, that the £500 might even be too much for a suddenly unemployed owner to afford, for example.

Another good reason for not using the vet. Dispatch by bullet and disposal without a vet cost me £250 last time

 

[honetpot]

Our 2 different most local knacker firms are around £250 +/- to bullet and remove (no, it doesn't matter if in or out of food chain). Home counties.
Still same cost from knacker companies to just collect after vet despatched by IV. Vet charges are around £250/300 for PTS, tho due to rises in drugs cost, this is likely to go more too.

Both knacker companies and hunt require full payment up front though. vet will invoice (mine invoices weekly)

I used this company last time.
https://www.equine-endoflife.co.uk/how-it-works/
She got me the cheapest quote for my area, and the pony was shot at home. £140, including disposal, paid by credit card over the phone.
I know this sounds gruesome, but there is a market for rendering.

 

[Gamebird]

Amazing animal experts but commercially retarded.

That is really quite an offensive word to use! Vets are just people. Some of them are extremely well financially educated and astute, others have less grasp of commercial matters. Same as people in any line of work. However I do not think that the use of the R word is in any way justified in that context (in fact probably not in any context any more).

 

[ester]

I’ve always made it my business to know what my local knacker options are on the basis that there are times they’d have been able to get there quicker than our vet.

 

[cariadbach10]

Exactly - people will cut back on competing, perhaps use a cheaper brand of pony nuts and give up on "matchy, matchy" habits. I wonder if the vet is worried that we'll also be more reticent about expensive vet work ups and investigations!

I suspect you’re right. I was absolutely staggered the other week when I trotted up my 27 y/o for the vet as part of a routine visit. I explained that he potters happily around the block once or twice a week. She saw some minuscule right hind lameness, which I immediately went ‘ah, spring grass doing its evil work!’ But she, very seriously, suggested I bring him in for a full lameness work up at their state of the art clinic, with a view to hock medication.
When I had stopped laughing, I realised they’re clearly trying to make some dollars. Times are tough for everyone.

 

[milliepops]

or, they saw a lame horse and thought they could make it more comfortable, given that it's still being ridden.

 

[SO1]

It would also be unprofessional if they didn't mention it and give you some options.

or, they saw a lame horse and thought they could make it more comfortable, given that it's still being ridden.

 

[cariadbach10]

It would also be unprofessional if they didn't mention it and give you some options.

Fair point. But if a relatively active eighty year old human was a tiny bit stiff jogging down the road first thing in the morning after a big gassy meal the night before, would you be immediately scheduling him in for a costly,stressful double hip replacement? Or perhaps suggesting being a bit creaky was part of getting older and to warm up, take a good supplement, keep moving regularly and improve your diet?

 

[milliepops]

The 80 year old active person probably pops a few paracetamol now and then ?

 

[SO1]

The vet is not suggesting an operation it would probably be athramid which might make the horse comfortable.

Fair point. But if a relatively active eighty year old human was a tiny bit stiff jogging down the road first thing in the morning after a big gassy meal the night before, would you be immediately scheduling him in for a costly,stressful double hip replacement? Or perhaps suggesting being a bit creaky was part of getting older and to warm up, take a good supplement, keep moving regularly and improve your diet?

 

[cariadbach10]

The 80 year old active person probably pops a few paracetamol now and then ?

Yep. I know I do and I’m only halfway to eighty!

 

[cariadbach10]

The vet is not suggesting an operation it would probably be athramid which might make the horse comfortable.

Another fair point. But costly full lameness work ups in the clinic on a 27 y/o horse who hates travelling?

 

[Goldenstar]

Fair point. But if a relatively active eighty year old human was a tiny bit stiff jogging down the road first thing in the morning after a big gassy meal the night before, would you be immediately scheduling him in for a costly,stressful double hip replacement? Or perhaps suggesting being a bit creaky was part of getting older and to warm up, take a good supplement, keep moving regularly and improve your diet?

Wait till your eighty no ones notices you are sore and when eventually someone’s does they refuse a hip replacement because you are too old .
Hip replacements are easy ops that’s an healthy eighty year can easily withstand and get greatly improved quality of life .
But costly work up is not necessary for horses at this stage there’s a middle way a nice box of bute which you learn how to use to help this horse best .
That’s how we manage my old friend .

 

[cariadbach10]

Wait till your eighty no ones notices you are sore and when eventually someone’s does they refuse a hip replacement because you are too old .
Hip replacements are easy ops that’s an healthy eighty year can easily withstand and get greatly improved quality of life .
But costly work up is not necessary for horses at this stage there’s a middle way a nice box of bute which you learn how to use to help this horse best .
That’s how we manage my old friend .

A nice box of Bute would have also been just the ticket in the circumstances, I think. In the same way as I take a paracetamol occasionally if my bones ache. But it wasn’t offered. Not much money in that solution, I suspect.

Sorry to hear about your hip situation. Very frustrating.

 

[Goldenstar]

It’s not my hip situation I am not yet eighty(61) and already have two nice new hips , I made it up for comparison purposes .

 

[BronsonNutter]

If vets are refusing to pts and prolonging the life of an animal against thr owners wishes then they should be reported.

It's not against the code of conduct to refuse a PTS if the animal is not suffering... I've refused to put horses down before, on two occasions (totalling 9 ponies), when the owner has been in hysterics and under pressure to 'get rid' of all of their horses due to an unfortunate turn of life events. I couldn't face going and PTSing that many horses, who had things that were perfectly manageable wrong with them (or in the case of some of them, nothing wrong at all) - I'm a human, a horse lover, and not a pony-dispatching machine. I also knew that in both cases the owners didn't really want their horses PTS, even though that is exactly what they phoned up and requested me to do, they just needed them gone from their hands. In both cases all ponies made their way to rescue centres, some via the clinic I worked for (the latter including treatment at our own cost).

Obviously, I am hoping you are meaning in the cases of horses that are suffering.

 

[maya2008]

Not true. Knackerman takes all horses, and charge the same. Think it’s £250 or there abouts. Certainly the local one here takes horses signed out of food chain.

Ours too. I have this coming up soon for one of my older ones (multiple health conditions, declining now at an increasing rate and quality of life is starting to look iffy) and have investigated options. It literally is ring up and book. £200 ish for pts by gun and disposal. Problem we had was our landlord was unhappy about anything being pts on his land in case the neighbours saw and were horrified. So we’ve had to find an alternative venue (thank goodness for friends!).

Whoever my vets use charge nearly double that for disposal (no returning of ashes or anything) so I have no idea how that works.

 

[Fieldlife]

Obviously, I am hoping you are meaning in the cases of horses that are suffering.

Yes I think vets should be able to say no. But equally I can think of a number of situations where PTS before suffering might be kindest.

A very old horse living as a pair bond when half the pair dies / is PTS.

A horse that really struggled last winter being put down in autumn whilst still warm and dry and in good condition before winter.

An older horse that’s starting to struggle getting back up.

I do believe in better a week too soon than a day too late.