Irresponsible Owners

[Pearlsasinger]

We have trained all ours to ignore *all* other dogs on or off lead by taking them to places where there are plenty of other dogs and keeping them away from the others. We use balls as a distraction and lots of treats. Going to agricultural shows etc where all dogs should be on a lead has helped in the past. They just get used to walking past neutrally. There has been the odd mishap, of course, but mainly when other dogs have approached ours. We are currently training the brown one(6 mths) that she doesn't need to bark at other dogs.

 

[Clodagh]

Scout is testing his teenagerdom at the moment. I can’t tell if he wants to defend his women or just sniff butts and say hi, but whatever the reason it’s boring. He’s absolutely fine if another dog comes up to him while he’s sat up ( on lead) but is struggling to learn that no one wants or needs his opinion! He will come back if another dog comes into sight while he’s free ranging but it’s a bit slow and reluctant. I hope he’ll grow out of it.

 

[Clodagh]

And I can’t think why anyone takes their dog to an agricultural show, but you and I PAS have discussed that before ?.
I might take two max in the pub if I’m out and need a drink but never more than that. They have to fit out of sight.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Scout is testing his teenagerdom at the moment. I can’t tell if he wants to defend his women or just sniff butts and say hi, but whatever the reason it’s boring. He’s absolutely fine if another dog comes up to him while he’s sat up ( on lead) but is struggling to learn that no one wants or needs his opinion! He will come back if another dog comes into sight while he’s free ranging but it’s a bit slow and reluctant. I hope he’ll grow out of it.

It's interesting because I don't remember this barking phase happening before with other dogs but 'Daycare dog' also went through a similar barking phase at the same age, fortunately she has grown/been trained out of it now. Actually one of the Rotts was a bit that way inclined when we walked directly from home, she seemed to think that she owned the whole hamlet. She grew out if that, too.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

And I can’t think why anyone takes their dog to an agricultural show, but you and I PAS have discussed that before ?.
I might take two max in the pub if I’m out and need a drink but never more than that. They have to fit out of sight.

It does depend on the show - and I seem to remember that you have taken yours to p-t-p meetings.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

We have trained all ours to ignore *all* other dogs on or off lead by taking them to places where there are plenty of other dogs and keeping them away from the others. We use balls as a distraction and lots of treats. Going to agricultural shows etc where all dogs should be on a lead has helped in the past. They just get used to walking past neutrally. There has been the odd mishap, of course, but mainly when other dogs have approached ours. We are currently training the brown one(6 mths) that she doesn't need to bark at other dogs.

To be fair, we were delighted with the youngsters last week, they went past other dogs with barely a look, notably a huge liver dobie. I’m hoping today was a one off. Goose is far better at just ignoring.

 

[Clodagh]

It does depend on the show - and I seem to remember that you have taken yours to p-t-p meetings.

And as you pointed out. There’s only ever 10 people there ?.

 

[Clodagh]

It's interesting because I don't remember this barking phase happening before with other dogs but 'Daycare dog' also went through a similar barking phase at the same age, fortunately she has grown/been trained out of it now. Actually one of the Rotts was a bit that way inclined when we walked directly from home, she seemed to think that she owned the whole hamlet. She grew out if that, too.

I hope so too with S, he doesn’t bark but he does put his hackles up. I’m not sure if boys just do that, testicles seem to cause all sorts of behaviour ?

 

[splashgirl45]

We have trained all ours to ignore *all* other dogs on or off lead by taking them to places where there are plenty of other dogs and keeping them away from the others. We use balls as a distraction and lots of treats. Going to agricultural shows etc where all dogs should be on a lead has helped in the past. They just get used to walking past neutrally. There has been the odd mishap, of course, but mainly when other dogs have approached ours. We are currently training the brown one(6 mths) that she doesn't need to bark at other dogs.

I am now having problems with my 2 year old terrier who is barking at other dogs if she is on the lead..it’s been since she had a big dog jump on her and although it didn’t bite her she was petrified. Now If she is off lead she comes back to me and hides behind me if she sees big dogs she doesn’t know..I’m hoping she will improve with time, I can distract her with a ball as she is ball obsessed but if another dog comes closer she won’t even look at the ball..I hate her being scared. and am struggling. Do you just distract your young one or is there anything else that is working for you ?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

To be fair, we were delighted with the youngsters last week, they went past other dogs with barely a look, notably a huge liver dobie. I’m hoping today was a one off. Goose is far better at just ignoring.

They are dogs in training, so every step in the right direction is a win! We were warned that brown dog liked to attach herself to others when out walking but that hasn't been much of a problem for us. She stays with the others and has moved on into the barking phase. Her recall is superb and she lives the idea of checking in for a treat. If there are 3 of us walking, she will go round us all to get a 'coming back' treat

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I hope so too with S, he doesn’t bark but he does put his hackles up. I’m not sure if boys just do that, testicles seem to cause all sorts of behaviour ?

Mitch puts up his hackles, they’re extremely long, he has what looks like a narrow blanket along his back to his tail of differently textured hair, as does Goose. Hackles don’t necessarily mean aggression, his is pure excitement.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I am now having problems with my 2 year old terrier who is barking at other dogs if she is on the lead..it’s been since she had a big dog jump on her and although it didn’t bite her she was petrified. Now If she is off lead she comes back to me and hides behind me if she sees big dogs she doesn’t know..I’m hoping she will improve with time, I can distract her with a ball as she is ball obsessed but if another dog comes closer she won’t even look at the ball..I hate her being scared. and am struggling. Do you just distract your young one or is there anything else that is working for you ?

Just distraction and treats as other dogs go past without her barking but she hasn't been frightened by a big dog, so her barking is a bit different. It can be hard to rebuild their confidence.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

They are dogs in training, so every step in the right direction is a win! We were warned that brown dog liked to attach herself to others when out walking but that hasn't been much of a problem for us. She stays with the others and has moved on into the barking phase. Her recall is superb and she lives the idea of checking in for a treat. If there are 3 of us walking, she will go round us all to get a 'coming back' treat

True, I keep forgetting they are ‘unfinished’, still cooking! For 11 month olds, I think they’re brilliant. They turn on a sixpence on command, recall brilliantly, bar the reactive dog incident, but considering I was stood right next to the humper I’d hauled off, maybe I can see why Mitch wouldn’t come to me but sprinted past to my OH (thicko CT is just working out why he wouldn’t come back to me!)

I know lots of people want to have their dogs move on and when I had Zak with me, I’d be zooming past, but when we had Jake and Brig, walking for us was a sociable event. We met up with 2 older ladies and used to go round the woods with them (they were both really keen on my OH and happily admitted it!) and we’d always stop and speak to people and get their dogs back by recalling ours. I’ve missed that and since going back to these woods, I’ve had loads of conversations with other owners. I hope I can carry on doing that, I‘m really enjoying the walks, for the social thing and the exercise.

 

[babymare]

I never understand why people take their dogs to the pub. It's not as if you are going to live there. Leave them at home. Will do no harm.

When we are out and about with our Tess we may stop for lunch at a pub. Whether we sit inside or outside Tess will go under the table and lay down just watching the world go by or sleep. Most times we get up to leave and people around us didn’t realise we had a dog ? Tasty titbits help lol. Plus snuggles with the staff

 

[Pearlsasinger]

True, I keep forgetting they are ‘unfinished’, still cooking! For 11 month olds, I think they’re brilliant. They turn on a sixpence on command, recall brilliantly, bar the reactive dog incident, but considering I was stood right next to the humper I’d hauled off, maybe I can see why Mitch wouldn’t come to me but sprinted past to my OH (thicko CT is just working out why he wouldn’t come back to me!)

I know lots of people want to have their dogs move on and when I had Zak with me, I’d be zooming past, but when we had Jake and Brig, walking for us was a sociable event. We met up with 2 older ladies and used to go round the woods with them (they were both really keen on my OH and happily admitted it!) and we’d always stop and speak to people and get their dogs back by recalling ours. I’ve missed that and since going back to these woods, I’ve had loads of conversations with other owners. I hope I can carry on doing that, I‘m really enjoying the walks, for the social thing and the exercise.

We do stop and chat with various neighbours /dog owners but we sit the dogs down beside us, either on or off lead, so that we know exactly where they are.

 

[skinnydipper]

We are currently training the brown one(6 mths) that she doesn't need to bark at other dogs.

I hope so too with S, he doesn’t bark but he does put his hackles up.

Mitch puts up his hackles, they’re extremely long, he has what looks like a narrow blanket along his back to his tail of differently textured hair,

Forgive me for butting in guys.

With these youngsters, do you think the barking/raised hackles/unsure could be due to going through a fear period? (fear periods can occur up to about 18 months)

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I think that Mitch is excited, possibly wary. Goose will go past other dogs, maybe engage then move on, Mitch is more likely to not approach, he holds back and assesses the situation. He has had no run ins with other dogs until the humper the day before yesterday, which made him move away and not come when asked. He puts up his hackles even with known dogs, it strikes me as excitement. He does it playing with Goose in the garden too, when they’re playing hard. Everything I’ve read indicates hackles being raised is indicative of a rush of adrenaline, obviously there are various causes.

 

[splashgirl45]

Forgive me for butting in guys.

With these youngsters, do you think the barking/raised hackles/unsure could be due to going through a fear period? (fear periods can occur up to about 18 months)

mine is 2 years old and I know why she is doing it. It is fear based , my other 2 are very relaxed ..

 

[Clodagh]

Forgive me for butting in guys.

With these youngsters, do you think the barking/raised hackles/unsure could be due to going through a fear period? (fear periods can occur up to about 18 months)

It would be good. Probably actually, I’ve never especially noticed it in the bitches by a year old but generally he is very babyish compared to them at the same age. In a few months he’s going to be having an awful lot of contact with an awful lot of strange dogs so I hope he gets over it!
Do dog’s understand reasons for erect hackles in another dog? Or is it always a challenge? He doesn’t bark or anything.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Hackles up is insecurity/lack of sureness, whatever way you want to put it and very occasionally, arousal/anticipation of something happening, (IE I have seen a few dogs hackling in heeling wondering if a ball is going to appear, or unhappy about a distraction). This is my firm belief informed by watching multiple dogs, not just my own, over quite a few years.
For instance, if a dog comes round the hide to bark at a helper, and it is hackling, it will usually lose marks and it's not something anyone really wants to see.

 

[Clodagh]

Well I’d rather S was thinking WTF than kill now!

 

[skinnydipper]

mine is 2 years old and I know why she is doing it. It is fear based , my other 2 are very relaxed ..

You could try a combination of desensitisation and counter conditioning.

Briefly, start at distance from other dogs far enough away not to cause any sign of fear or anxiety and reward your dog with something that she loves.

Gradually decrease the distance and consistently pair the fearful stimuli (other dog) with the reward.

The idea is that over time you will change her emotional response.

Hope this helps.

Taken from an old post of mine:

For behaviour modification to be successful it is important that the dog is kept under threshold*. She cannot learn when she is frightened and already reacting. She sounds very stressed and I would suggest giving her a little break from her trigger (other dogs) and let her relax.

When she does go out she should not be pressured to meet and interact with other dogs.

*Below threshold is when the lab is still coping and happy to take treats. If you observe her body language and she is showing signs of stress she is over threshold. If she is barking she is way over threshold.

Her owner needs to know at what distance she becomes stressed and maintain a distance from other dogs which is greater than that. Distance is important.

# Desensitisation and counter conditioning. Use extra special treats, cooked chicken for example, and use it only to reward the desired behaviour. For example when she sees another dog at a distance she is comfortable with and doesn't react, "good girl" in a happy voice, reward with chicken and move away - not towards the other dog. Moving away is also a reward.

If another dog is approaching and it would be difficult to maintain distance, don't panic and show stress instead say (jolly voice again) "lets go" and walk/run the other way, cross the road or whatever. Make a game of it. Reward a successful escape game but not with the "very special treat", keep that for the counter conditioning.

The dog needs to know that she can trust her owner to keep her safe.

Basically what you are aiming for is for the lab to see another dog and look to her owner for her special reward. Pairing the scary thing with something positive (counter conditioning).

Gradually you will be able to decrease the distance between her and other dogs but it is important not to rush things.

In the early days I would avoid busy areas where it is more difficult to control her environment. You don't want her to be overwhelmed.

The owner might find it helpful to buy a Yellow Dog vest or leash sleeve stating that the dog needs space.

Also useful to teach is "watch me", for the times when a close encounter is unavoidable it gives the dog an alternative behaviour to perform instead of focusing on the scary thing.

# Lab's owner could enlist the help of doggy friends and set up training sessions as above.

I know from experience that behavioural modification does work. It doesn't happen overnight and your friend will need a lot of patience but she can celebrate each small success and know that by helping her dog to change her emotional state and decrease her stress, she is improving her dog's quality of life.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Well I’d rather S was thinking WTF than kill now!

It's not about killing, it's about confidence/assuredness

 

[Clodagh]

It's not about killing, it's about confidence/assuredness

I see that. He’s a dippity doughnut dog.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I see that. He’s a dippity doughnut dog.

I jokingly refer to mine as Braveheart. She looks like a bog brush when she comes out of the gate some mornings and there might be INTRUDERS who needs to be TOLD TO GO AWAY.

 

[Clodagh]

I jokingly refer to mine as Braveheart. She looks like a bog brush when she comes out of the gate some mornings and there might be INTRUDERS who needs to be TOLD TO GO AWAY.

I suspect if there were real intruders Scout would hide ?

 

[skinnydipper]

This is interesting.

It seems that the pattern of piloerection (raised hackles) correlates with different emotional states.

Thin line from shoulder to tail correlates with more confident dogs, higher likelihood of aggression.

Broad patch over neck and shoulders, low confidence and fear.

Raised patches over shoulder and hips, dogs who are ambivalent, often more reactive and unpredictable.

 

[Clodagh]

This is interesting.

It seems that the pattern of piloerection (raised hackles) correlates with different emotional states.

Thin line from shoulder to tail correlates with more confident dogs, higher likelihood of aggression.

Broad patch over neck and shoulders, low confidence and fear.

Raised patches over shoulder and hips, dogs who are ambivalent, often more reactive and unpredictable.

That’s what I wondered, would dogs know the difference. And they obviously would.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Interesting, hackling up in the hide would never be associated with confidence IME, 'pure' aggression is not what judges are looking for.
Not (sorry Clodagh!) kill now! but 'I've got this, I will easily best you, do not move'.
But I suppose that is dog vs human so slightly different.
My female does literally go from withers to croup and I don't perceive it as confidence.

 

[Clodagh]

This is interesting.

It seems that the pattern of piloerection (raised hackles) correlates with different emotional states.

Thin line from shoulder to tail correlates with more confident dogs, higher likelihood of aggression.

Broad patch over neck and shoulders, low confidence and fear.

Raised patches over shoulder and hips, dogs who are ambivalent, often more reactive and unpredictable.

Scout is very broad patch over neck and shoulders