Irresponsible Owners

[some show]

That happened near me, too, an irish setter got wind of a deer (there are loads of them) on a forestry track and ran and ran - straight out onto a 60mph B-road and was hit by a van Such a horrible thing for his owners but I really felt for the driver of the van. It would've devastated me, in his shoes.

 

[marmalade76]

Well there have been catch dogs around since before recorded history. Dogs bred to hunt big game, to grip/bite it behind and above the ear and pin it down rendering it vulnerable to the human hunter. Given humanity’s fondness for hunting apex predators and other large, dangerous animals, those dogs had to be tenacious even taking mortal wounds without letting go. Then add baiting and dog fighting into the mix and “grip and pin” becomes “grip and shake”.
What you end up with is a large animal which has been selectively bred for millennia for a huge bite force, an extreme unwillingness to let go and a predatory behavioural pattern which involves it biting into the neck and face then shaking violently for maximum possible damage.

Most dogs will act out down genetically predetermined lines if stressed or appropriately triggered, when in doubt trust instinct, but a collie, a Doberman or even a lgd aren’t anywhere near as likely to kill or dish out life changing injuries when they do so. Obviously that likelihood increases the closer the dog is to the fighting lines.

when these dog attacks happen a lot of the blame gets placed at the feet of people looking for status/respect/power etc. However the reality of what could politely be called less affluent urban areas is that there is often a small minority of predatory individuals, families or gangs which keep a larger community in the grip of the fear and violence they inflict. The vast majority of these dogs aren’t going to the predators (many of whom, from personal experience, aren’t interested in looking after anything but themselves) but instead go to frightened people in the wider community who feel the need for a deterrent and because in that climate to have anything that makes you look weak is to make yourself a target.

Working dogs bred for bite work are perceived as requiring too much training, flock guards are accurately perceived as being difficult to keep. Meanwhile idiots keep trying to rehabilitate the image of the fighting dogs, calling them nanny dogs or St Francis terriers and basically marketing them as being easy dogs, great with young children that will protect the family etc.

It’s a genetic/behavioural problem inherent in a few breeds that makes them a higher risk coupled with societal problems and unscrupulous individuals prepared to exploit them which ends up putting those animals in thoroughly unsuitable homes.

add to that poorly bred, poorly trained/socialised covid dogs that have often passed through many hands now reaching maturity and you’ve got something akin to a perfect storm for dog attacks to happen.

Yes, these are thoughts I've had too and there's always plenty of folks eager to disagree.

 

[marmalade76]

This just in: different people like different dogs.

Why does anyone want any dog? Because they look nice, because they're the thing in some subcultures, because people have different criteria for what they want in a dog's temperament, because people have had different life experiences with different breeds, etc.

I have relatives that are terrified of GSDs, because they associate them with WW2, but you don't see them going around asking why would anyone own a Nazi dog.

You don't see most hound breeds at obedience classes but no one's holding that against them.
You also see collies doing obedience work but that doesn't stop the majority of them being lunatics in other homes.

Hounds don't tend to kill people, collies don't tend to kill people (bite, people, yes, usually on the backside) and GSDs (for a a period renamed Alsatians to distance them from the nazis, my grandparents had one depiste living through WW2 themselves) are WAY outnumbered by bull breeds in fatal dog attack statistics.

 

[stangs]

Hounds don't tend to kill people, collies don't tend to kill people (bite, people, yes, usually on the backside) and GSDs (for a a period renamed Alsatians to distance them from the nazis, my grandparents had one depiste living through WW2 themselves) are WAY outnumbered by bull breeds in fatal dog attack statistics.

You asked why anyone would want a bully-type (post 1631). I gave you a reason. I should think the majority of owners don't go into dog ownership thinking "what's the likelihood of this dog killing me?", so the statistics aren't relevant for this conversation.

Re GSDs, a name change doesn't mean much when you grew up with them only being kept by enemy soldiers, as guard dogs or as weapons on a leash. It's not about the word 'German'; it's about having associated those dogs with you potentially being raped or killed.

 

[CorvusCorax]

**if you could see someone training their dog in a fenced field that they pay a membership fee to use, would you let your dog run up and down the fence barking aggressively?**

Thank God I shut all the gates and had a line on mine.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Dang, I hadn't seen 'DDA dog' (multi-incident unprovoked attacks on other dogs, including injury to other owners, supposed to be wearing a muzzle in public) for ages and was getting hopeful he wasn't around anymore but nope. Saw today on our walk home. Had planned to take Ivy for a bit of off-lead time but it was headed towards our local spot so we opted to leave that today.

 

[SilverLinings]

Dang, I hadn't seen 'DDA dog' (multi-incident unprovoked attacks on other dogs, including injury to other owners, supposed to be wearing a muzzle in public) for ages and was getting hopeful he wasn't around anymore but nope. Saw today on our walk home. Had planned to take Ivy for a bit of off-lead time but it was headed towards our local spot so we opted to leave that today.

Was it's muzzle on this time (I live in hope)? Sorry your walk wasn't able to go as planned, it seems very unfair when your dog isn't the one that is the problem.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I also just turn tail now if I see a dog I know there's going to be an issue with. Not worth all the papering over I need to do when I give numpties the benefit of the doubt.

 

[marmalade76]

You asked why anyone would want a bully-type (post 1631). I gave you a reason. I should think the majority of owners don't go into dog ownership thinking "what's the likelihood of this dog killing me?", so the statistics aren't relevant for this conversation.

Re GSDs, a name change doesn't mean much when you grew up with them only being kept by enemy soldiers, as guard dogs or as weapons on a leash. It's not about the word 'German'; it's about having associated those dogs with you potentially being raped or killed.

Not seeing hounds in obedience classes and collies not making good pers wasn't really relevant either lots of breeds don't make good family pets, but they don't tend to kill people, it's predominantly fat headed ugly dogs that do that.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Met extremely bouncy Great Dane bitch today, she’s a riot! Goose went for a nose to nose sniff and went back on his arse when she reciprocated. Bear was a bit scared-she’s very large/bouncy. Mitch was on a line (we’re rehabbing very slowly ) and said a cautious hello.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Was it's muzzle on this time (I live in hope)? Sorry your walk wasn't able to go as planned, it seems very unfair when your dog isn't the one that is the problem.

No muzzle. It's walked on a great big chain though, for all the good that will do if it slips its collar or pulls away from its owner. It's horrible knowing this dog is in the neighbourhood. It cleared a 4ft fence to get into a public mini/pocket park to attack someone's dog.

We still had a good walk, this was right at the end of an already decent walk thankfully. No off-lead as our other favoured spot someone came into and we prefer to only do off-lead if it's just us there.

 

[SilverLinings]

No muzzle. It's walked on a great big chain though, for all the good that will do if it slips its collar or pulls away from its owner. It's horrible knowing this dog is in the neighbourhood. It cleared a 4ft fence to get into a public mini/pocket park to attack someone's dog.

We still had a good walk, this was right at the end of an already decent walk thankfully. No off-lead as our other favoured spot someone came into and we prefer to only do off-lead if it's just us there.

I'm glad you still had a nice walk

It's amazing that despite all the news reports about fatal dog attacks over the last year, and despite the fact that several of them have reported that the dog involved had previously attacked other dogs, there are still owners out there who aren't at all concerned about keeping their own aggressive dog under adequate control

I think now the law has tightened up we need a number of widely-reported cases of owners of dogs that attack other animals being HEAVILY fined (and possibly otherwise sanctioned).

 

[GSD Woman]

I wonder if the fact that pit bulls are supposedly banned in England is part of the issue. Here we have a wide range of them. There are actually good, responsible breeders and shelters/rescues that do their best to screen for temperament. A former co-worker started with UKC American Pit Bull Terriers and now has AKC American Staffordshire Terriers. Her dogs are good with people, other dogs and cats. I honestly believe that over 90%, and probably 99%, of the pits you see in this country are nice dogs. Too bad it's the others that make the news.
Most of the vets I've worked with/for would rather work on the average pit bull vs the average German shepherd.

 

[SilverLinings]

I think that amongst some owners of aggressive, threatening-looking dogs (the sort of owners who are likely to be aggressive themselves, and are involved in activities like gangs/drugs/theft/etc) the dogs mean that they can in effect walk around the streets 'armed', when the possession of a knife or gun would make them liable to instant arrest. As long as the dog isn't obviously a banned breed then it can be encouraged to behave in as an aggressive manner as the owner wishes, until it attacks and injures someone (and they report it, which in some circumstances the 'victim' might not do) the police can do nothing.

If you are involved in potentially violent criminal activities like drug dealing or gangs and related turf disputes then walking around with a large, angry-looking dog is probably a more effective deterrent to would-be attackers than carrying a knife, which would need to be concealed in public. Unfortunately I expect that a lot of these owners are good at encouraging their dog to become aggressive, but don't have enough understanding of dog behaviour and training to deal with the dog when the aggressive behaviour becomes a problem (or ideally stop that from happening in the first place).

Probably the biggest public safety related problem associated with this is that at least some of these dogs are bred from (largely as an easy source of income), and although some of the puppies will go to like-minded owners, some will also end up being sold to homes with children where they are expected to live like pets despite coming from parents chosen for their aggressive tendencies.

 

[skinnydipper]

Mitch was on a line (we’re rehabbing very slowly ) and said a cautious hello.

How did he get on at his RVC appointment, were they able to give you a diagnosis? Sorry if I've missed an update on another thread.

 

[CorvusCorax]

**if you could see someone training their dog in a fenced field that they pay a membership fee to use, would you let your dog run up and down the fence barking aggressively?**

Thank God I shut all the gates and had a line on mine.

AND LET YOURSELF IN AFTER I LEAVE AND LET YOUR DOG DO A BIG ROUNDABOUT OF A POO

 

[Cinnamontoast]

How did he get on at his RVC appointment, were they able to give you a diagnosis? Sorry if I've missed an update on another thread.

Just like last time he hurt himself (walk/perfect trot of shame as the technician took him off) he came right before the appointment so we are going very slowly with rehabilitation. It’s his shoulder again, he injured one then the other, RVC found nothing wrong with either shoulder last time. If anything else recurs, we will send his x rays to the orthapaedic specialist who did Jake’s tplo many years ago.

We will not be taking him out withGoose again in the woods, however. Goose went after a muntjac, came back when asked, but Mitch was delirious trying to go too. They’ve done some forestry work, presumably to avoid nesting birds and have decimated the paths, it’s very hard going, I was almost lost!

 

[Caol Ila]

Owner of the week goes to....

I have no idea. I only saw the dog. Fin was pottering down the trail, maybe a bit on edge after passing a guy with some obvious motor and learning disabilities (worst. therapy. horse. ever), but overall happy. Then he suddenly did his 0-60 in two seconds schtick, shooting off into canter. This is par for the course if he gets startled by mountain bikers crashing through the woods or whatever, and he normally stops himself after a couple strides. He did not, and I had to engage the one-rein stop emergency brakes. Pulled him up and turned him around to see a huge black dog, a setter type thing, hurtling after us. No wonder the pony took off! I rode at it for a couple strides, and it wheeled around and raced back down the trail, then darted down another trail, perhaps 50-100 yards away. Maybe that's where the owners were? No one was calling it or appeared to be with it.

Apologies to everyone on the trail who heard me putting a Quentin Tarantino movie to shame. "Jesus H. f08ing Christ. Motherf*)(8er. You f7879cking pr*()cks."

 

[Caol Ila]

I also want to give a shout-out to the runner up.

He was, in fact, a runner. Running with his spaniel. Spaniel veered away from jogging owner to chase and bark at horse. Fin was not spooked by this one (he saw it coming, and spaniels aren't that scary), but when I spun him around and tried to ride at it, the bloody thing kept circling around towards his back end. One of these days, I should just let him kick something. Owner, a very Serious Looking Runner, seemed intent on not breaking his pace or putting his dog on a lead. He shouted for the dog, which completely blew him off. Once he'd passed me, it did break off its chase and followed its owner, who shouted over his shoulder, "He's not good with horses!"

No sh1t, mate. OH and I shouted back, "There are lots of them in this park!"

Which should be unsurprising, given the huge livery yard you drive past to get to the damned park.

An older couple had watched the drama, rolling their eyes, and as I rode past them, I said, "That's the second one today. People suck." They agreed.

 

[sky1000]

That sounds so annoying. The owner knows his dog is not good with horses, but thinks it is not his responsibility to do anything about it - or even control his dog.

 

[skinnydipper]

Just like last time he hurt himself (walk/perfect trot of shame as the technician took him off) he came right before the appointment so we are going very slowly with rehabilitation. It’s his shoulder again, he injured one then the other, RVC found nothing wrong with either shoulder last time. If anything else recurs, we will send his x rays to the orthapaedic specialist who did Jake’s tplo many years ago.

We will not be taking him out withGoose again in the woods, however. Goose went after a muntjac, came back when asked, but Mitch was delirious trying to go too. They’ve done some forestry work, presumably to avoid nesting birds and have decimated the paths, it’s very hard going, I was almost lost!

It's good that he is improving. You must be very relieved.

Thanks for the update.

 

[cauda equina]

More idiocy

https://twitter.com/x/status/1622156841122668547

 

[Smitty]

Oh well, it's OK, he has a dog, he can do as he pleases.

I hope he doesn't breed in case his offspring are as dim as him.

 

[SilverLinings]

I can only imagine he wouldn't mind other people trespassing in his garden and taking his expensive belongings and destroying them then?

 

[fiwen30]

Any idea why someone might be purposely crossing GSDs and border collies? They farm cattle (dairy, maybe?) and posted about their ’first’ GSD/BC litter born yesterday.

Is there a genuine need for a working dog of this cross that I’m missing?

 

[MurphysMinder]

Any idea why someone might be purposely crossing GSDs and border collies? They farm cattle (dairy, maybe?) and posted about their ’first’ GSD/BC litter born yesterday.

Is there a genuine need for a working dog of this cross that I’m missing?

This used to be quite a common cross for obedience/WT. Both herding breeds so could be useful but would definitely need their brains occupying. I hope both parents have had all health tests, eg hips, elbows, eyes etc.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

There are far worse crosses out there, and if the breeder rehomes them sensibly, then they may turn out to be very nice dogs.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I have known several, all very nice dogs.

 

[cauda equina]

This looks horrific
Leaving this here if anyone would like to sign

Can you spare a minute to help this campaign?

Dog on dog attack to be a criminal offence and owners charged

chng.it

 

[ArklePig]

Any idea why someone might be purposely crossing GSDs and border collies? They farm cattle (dairy, maybe?) and posted about their ’first’ GSD/BC litter born yesterday.

Is there a genuine need for a working dog of this cross that I’m missing?

My friend has one of these as a pet, I was but he's a very good easy going boy, which honestly shocked me. He does have HD though.