Is anyone else not entirely convinced by the Horse Hoarders plight?

It's the Great British thing to champion the underdog. I wouldn't send money personally. Michelle should be looking to get the horses away and him into decent accommodation if possible. Keeping a few would be fine but definitely not breeding more.
 
I thought that that house and land belonged to someone else and its now being squatted on. So the house and the land won't be there for use much longer so where will any remaing horses go ??

I did watch the programme and heard Michelle say £35 a day, only joking. The only person who can confirm if he is paying livery is Michelle.

It's a very sad situation of what appears to be a man who has lost control of the horses, they looked wormy and they are breeding without having the colts/stallions separated. Maybe he could make money out of them in the past but in the current climate he must sell them all. How can it be viable for him to keep any horses without the land and on a low income and no home.

I think Michelle is doing a great job of preventing the horses suffering any longer.
 
wallykissmas said:
I thought that that house and land belonged to someone else and its now being squatted on. So the house and the land won't be there for use much longer so where will any remaing horses go ??

I did watch the programme and heard Michelle say £35 a day, only joking. The only person who can confirm if he is paying livery is Michelle.

It's a very sad situation of what appears to be a man who has lost control of the horses, they looked wormy and they are breeding without having the colts/stallions separated. Maybe he could make money out of them in the past but in the current climate he must sell them all. How can it be viable for him to keep any horses without the land and on a low income and no home.

I think Michelle is doing a great job of preventing the horses suffering any longer.
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So why are donations not being used to castrate these colts? Why are they being sold entire? I just don't understand that. I do not understand ANY horse lover who sells non quality colts entire. Geld it for £90, add the £90 onto the asking price if need be, but son't pass on cr*p for someone else to breed cr*p from. So, no, Michelle is not doing a great job, she's selling these colts for good money and not bothering to do the ONE fundamental thing for their future welfare before they leave.
 
ponypilotmum said:
So why are donations not being used to castrate these colts? Why are they being sold entire? I just don't understand that. I do not understand ANY horse lover who sells non quality colts entire. Geld it for £90, add the £90 onto the asking price if need be, but son't pass on cr*p for someone else to breed cr*p from. So, no, Michelle is not doing a great job, she's selling these colts for good money and not bothering to do the ONE fundamental thing for their future welfare before they leave.
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ARE the colts are not being castrated? Even during the program there were some that we were told were caught to be gelded. Perhaps some have been sold entire, but surely the new owners would have them gelded? Who would want an unregistered, unhandled colt, let alone be prepared to breed from them?
 
ponypilotmum said:
So why are donations not being used to castrate these colts? Why are they being sold entire? I just don't understand that. I do not understand ANY horse lover who sells non quality colts entire. Geld it for £90, add the £90 onto the asking price if need be, but son't pass on cr*p for someone else to breed cr*p from. So, no, Michelle is not doing a great job, she's selling these colts for good money and not bothering to do the ONE fundamental thing for their future welfare before they leave.
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Cortez said:
ARE the colts are not being castrated? Even during the program there were some that we were told were caught to be gelded. Perhaps some have been sold entire, but surely the new owners would have them gelded? Who would want an unregistered, unhandled colt, let alone be prepared to breed from them?
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I too thought they were being gelded, he had got some in a seperate part building ready to have them gelded.??
 
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I've just watched it again- definately 35 a week livery. Also, Clwyd was ranting that after the fees taken out of the sale, there'd be no money left for him. Hmmm....
 
I think it is awful that people are donating money, feed, and everything else.
This man was not reported to the rspca for no reason and wouldnt of said he was guilty.
Many people in his local area are absolutely discussed that people feel sorry for him!
This is because they know what the man is really like, half of them horses he has there it could be garanteed they are inbreed,(most fillies and mares being in foal to their own sires) and would be surprised about how many horses he has buried on his land because he has shot them or killed them due to not being able to provide them proper vetenairy care.
All off them horses michelle is selling she sells for 300-800 pound a piece so clwyd does not need anybody else to be donating him money, wormers etc because he has enough income to provide them decent care.
People feeling sorry for the state he lives in well how about keeping a few (2 or 3 ) horses under good care, instead off letting them get out of controlling breeding more and more through no fault of their own but throught the faults of the owner!

He should not be allowed to keep 52 horses and really shouldnt be allowed to keep any off them if he can not look after himself how on earth is he meant to look after 52 horses! OK the horses look in good condition that doesnt mean they are not riddled with worms and lice etc which most of them are!

I believe no human being should be allowed to keep any sort of animal if they can not look after themselfs in the first place and espically not this man!!
 
I watched the program and to be honest I wasn't convinced about any of it

During the program a lot of hints were dropped about Clwyd's mental health and that the loss of his child had started all of the problems he was having - to be honest what I saw was a 'switched on' wily old man who was more than capable of manipulating the situation to his own ends.
 
horsesatemychristmasmoney said:
if I had a spare tenner to donate, I'd rather give it to a kid's cancer charity. I'm not denying this guy needs some help, but I think it's via a gp , not monetary donations. one of the horses is up for 500 pounds not a lot and might not sell, but if he sells 20 that's 10k! I wonder if some people want to help because they see it as doing something against the rspca ? its very sad allround but I don't think giving him money to carry on will help....he needs the help and support of professional mental health workers or likely is he'll do this again in the future....he's a hoarder .
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I agree with this, by giving him money and items it encouraging him to continue, but imo the person who is making money out of this is Michelle. I saw the programme and it struck me when I saw her and another trying to tug a pony into a box using the tail that it is a person who has very cleverly got the media involved to tell everyone how terrible it is but then really advertise her plight to sell horses. Theres a post early on on this post, which I haven't quoted but they've apparently been there and by what they say this lady is in it for the money - bet she wouldn't be able to afford to run her stables without this income?

Unfortunately the RSPCA didn't come over very well - don't want to raise this as a debate there are plenty already. There are obviously some issues around his caring for himself, but I think this needs proper help to help him not live in squalor.

To me its a bit like puppy farming, stop buying, stop the demand and they stop breeding! But he is also being given ponies? Stop this as well, put money to gelding what he has and hey presto much of the problem solved.
If I was donating, I'd send him a tube of wormer, but I won't be as a proper charity would come much higher up the list.
 
This man has been found guilty of causing unnecessary suffering to horses.it was not through ignorance, he used to be a prolific breeder. Some of the horses which were subject to the case were emancipated, and I have linked a case photograph onto the original thread showing this. So why on earth anybody feels that this man is some sort of celebrity who should receive handouts I really don't know and quite frankly am shocked. I would rather flush my money down the loo than fund him to continue putting horses at risk.
 
Probably one of the few times you and I see eye to eye Moomin eh!
But yes.....of you are going to sell goals without breed papers, for far more than they are worth, then bung another £90 on and geld the poor sods.
 
There seem to be some now up for rehoming on facebook. The trouble with all charities is people realise they can make money and if the problem is solved then their money stops. It is legal to pay yourself a wage through a charity. If the horses are given up to the RSPCA then they will go out for adoption properly. I am just wondering if they are selling them and keeping some which they can use the donations
 
I won't add to the numerous posts already made concerning both the wily old fox and his business partner. I have already done this on facebook and it will not make one jot of difference to the mass hysteria now associated with giving anything and everything to this rather dubious 'cause'.

However I would like to say that I have not seen one comment about the role that the sponsors and producers of this television garbage have played in this farce? Am I the only one who questions the morality of the decision to air an extremely biased and inaccurate picture of what is going on with this 'down on his luck breeder and dealer of third rate ponies'?

But then why am I surprised...this seems to be the medias latest choice of money spinner....just another highly inaccurate and inflammatory 'documentary' that falls apart when the truth is questioned more closely.
 
Emancipating them might solve the issue! I'd love 52 horses, but I know I can't afford more than 1 or 2...therefore, I only live within my horsey means and don't buy a mare and stallion and let them run wild together! Simples! I think there's more too it than we know, but expect it will all become clear at some point
 
whoatherejig said:
The programme just made me think wtf was that all about????
:confused:
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I'm not surprised!

What it was really about, and what it should have shown, is basically a hoarder who failed to provide basic care on a long term basis to his masses of horses, despite over 200 hours of help from the RSPCA (and more than likely other organisations aswell), with two warnings, one of which the time limit was actually extended in order to give him even more of a chance to rectify things, finally ending up being found guilty of unnecessary suffering after causing some horses to become emaciated. Not to mention the fact that in the meantime, despite the warnings he went and got more horses, possibly resulting in the death of a foal.

But no, that would be too boring for the media wouldn't it? Instead they thought they would miss out the fact that he had all this prior help, and just launch in making out that the RSPCA had just recieved a call, skidded around the corner with a load of horseboxes and removed everything straight away! :rolleyes:
 
It's not sat right with me either. Don't get me wrong I am all for helping people but it has to be the right kind of help. It never ceases to amaze me how many people will donate money to something without really knowing what's going on, loads of people are offering all sorts of help and money based on a well edited half hour programme!

Donating money to the feed shop to pay to feed his horses, surely that is just enabling him?

If people really want to help perhaps donate to a vet to castrate his colts.

At the end of the day he is a hoarder so if his horses are helped and re-homed etc whose to say he isn't just going to get more.

His living conditions looked appalling and I imagine he needs help of some kind but not sure this is it, and he needs to want it and accept it not just take money to pay for his horses (not saying this is what's going on as don't know where the money is going or what it's doing) but yes it doesn't sit right with me at all!

Ideally for me I'd like to see the horses re-homed and him left with a few that he can manage so he can keep them in his life, but not add to at a later date, and for his living conditions to improve and hopefully accept help and support in that area.

I imagine there will be another documentary on his house being cleared and the horses in the near future
 
Moomin1 said:
I wonder if those people who are so keen to donate and feel like he is some kind of celebrity have seen the things that the documentary did not feel necessary to show?

Like this for instance? :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rspca/8365018496/in/photostream
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This is what gets me how so many people can jump on board without knowing the full story, people just believe what they see on TV as gospel! I am the first to be infuriated with the way the RSPCA loaded that pony, that was appalling (I've loaded a lot of wild ponies over the years and never needed to dart one or upset them quite so much) but we were not given any info on the ones taken away, the state they were in, the history of visits etc. I'd want to know everything before deciding whether I should part with my cash!
 
On facebook they have asked people to ask channel 4 to do another programme on him. These horses need the right adopting homes so they can have care all their life. Some of the people asking about them dont sound like the people who could train a feral.pony.
 
guesstimation said:
This is what gets me how so many people can jump on board without knowing the full story, people just believe what they see on TV as gospel! I am the first to be infuriated with the way the RSPCA loaded that pony, that was appalling (I've loaded a lot of wild ponies over the years and never needed to dart one or upset them quite so much) but we were not given any info on the ones taken away, the state they were in, the history of visits etc. I'd want to know everything before deciding whether I should part with my cash!
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The darting and loading was all done under a vets supervision. Darting may look terrible, but it really is imperitive in some situations. Lots of people have commented on here about the fact it took a long time to actually take any effect. The sedative can, when adrenalin levels are very high in some horses take a long time to take effect, whereas in others it may work immediately. Personally I think it was worse when that Michelle was pulling the tail to try and get it in! She clearly doesn't realise that it is a continuation of the spine!
 
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