MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
If they're eligible then I see no issue. They're obviously on young horses. Its funny you say they got placings, so they didnt win then?
Is this pot hunting??
- Thread starter Velcrobum
- Start date
If they're eligible then I see no issue. They're obviously on young horses. Its funny you say they got placings, so they didnt win then?
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I think with RC stuff we might need to be sure of the line between things run by RC and RC competition.
RC competition/area champs are yes affiliated to BRC, run under their rules, under passport names with vaccine checking etc. But these are only once a year or twice if it's a summer and winter qualifier, so it really wouldn't make up much of a competition year for people.
Then you get the events run by RCs which are mostly in order to generate some income to provide other services and run under their own rules etc.
TFF- yup I've only ever inflicted Frank's welsh name on people when I've had to. There was no way it was ever going to come out of a commentators mouth correctly, for SJ areas I did want to add a note saying don't bother lol.
RC competition/area champs are yes affiliated to BRC, run under their rules, under passport names with vaccine checking etc. But these are only once a year or twice if it's a summer and winter qualifier, so it really wouldn't make up much of a competition year for people.
Then you get the events run by RCs which are mostly in order to generate some income to provide other services and run under their own rules etc.
TFF- yup I've only ever inflicted Frank's welsh name on people when I've had to. There was no way it was ever going to come out of a commentators mouth correctly, for SJ areas I did want to add a note saying don't bother lol.
TPO
Well-Known Member
I agree that thr French system, with some tweaks, would be much better than what we currently have in the UK.
In theory I understand where you are coming from Rachelferd BUT I don't have the blind faith in the affiliated companies or that they are better policed/managed than unaffiliated.
I see so many riders who are just bad and IMO shouldn't be out competing. Yet they are allowed to continue competing despite being a county behind over a fence and taking the horses back teeth out, no balance, no control, no ability to see a stride and not fit enough. Same that I see unfit and overweight horses out doing low level BE and BS. I've seen lame horses out BD.
So, at the lower levels, I don't see that affiliated is any better managed (for the benefit of the horse) than unaffiliated.
If, like the French system, there was criteria to be met before anyone could compete and that had to be adhered to that could only be good thing
In theory I understand where you are coming from Rachelferd BUT I don't have the blind faith in the affiliated companies or that they are better policed/managed than unaffiliated.
I see so many riders who are just bad and IMO shouldn't be out competing. Yet they are allowed to continue competing despite being a county behind over a fence and taking the horses back teeth out, no balance, no control, no ability to see a stride and not fit enough. Same that I see unfit and overweight horses out doing low level BE and BS. I've seen lame horses out BD.
So, at the lower levels, I don't see that affiliated is any better managed (for the benefit of the horse) than unaffiliated.
If, like the French system, there was criteria to be met before anyone could compete and that had to be adhered to that could only be good thing
Jango
Well-Known Member
Affiliated costs more as everything is tracked and regulated. I genuinely don't think we need to track and record people doing 3 or 4 intro tests or 2x60cm ODEs a year on their only horse that won't ever be bred from. It's a complete waste of time and money all round. Who cares if we don't know who it's dad is.
I think for dressage, SJ and eventing, the normal route of progression is local, unaff shows e.g. riding club or yard venues (cheapest, very local, lowest standard), then when you're doing well there you probably move to unaff but at venues that also run affiliated/with affiliated judges (more expensive than option 1, higher standard but still half of the price of affiliated), then when you're successful you will probably try affiliated and see how that goes. Some people may stick at option 1 forever and that's fine, some may move through when they find their niche, some may do a variety of disciplines at different levels. But if you lose option one you will lose a huge amount of people filtering through the system as they grow and improve. To give you an example of costs option 1 for RC ODE locally is £35ish, option 2 is £65-75 and option 3 is £125. That's just entry fees.
Make everything affiliated and you will lose the yard dressage people can hack to, as small yards won't want the faff of being inspected or having to run to certain dates, upload results to deadlines on databases.
It's probably fine if you've grown up with horses/have a lot of money, your mum will have shown you it all or you have really regular training and the money for support, transport etc. But if you don't have a horsey family, learn at a riding school as a kid and buy your first own horse as an adult, the entry levels need to be super accessible. Increasing regulation always increases costs in any walk of life and I just don't think having everything affiliated will show any benefits to the average leisure riding club level competitor. It would reduce participation and make competing even more elitist which would be bad for everyone.
I think the unaff leagues/competitions are great! A monopoly is never good for the customers. Some competition will hopefully make BE up their game so they cater for the needs of the 80-1m amateur market. In my opinion we want well built courses, lots of options within 1.5hr travel time, cheaper entry fees, prizes/prize money, options for qualifying for things/finals, nice rosettes and a good photographer! Professional riders and serious amateurs going up the levels probably want different things, so I think BE is going to have to come up with a tiered approach to membership and entry fees, before they lose even more competition dates to unaffiliated competitions which are more lucrative for the venues whilst being cheaper for the competitors.
I think for dressage, SJ and eventing, the normal route of progression is local, unaff shows e.g. riding club or yard venues (cheapest, very local, lowest standard), then when you're doing well there you probably move to unaff but at venues that also run affiliated/with affiliated judges (more expensive than option 1, higher standard but still half of the price of affiliated), then when you're successful you will probably try affiliated and see how that goes. Some people may stick at option 1 forever and that's fine, some may move through when they find their niche, some may do a variety of disciplines at different levels. But if you lose option one you will lose a huge amount of people filtering through the system as they grow and improve. To give you an example of costs option 1 for RC ODE locally is £35ish, option 2 is £65-75 and option 3 is £125. That's just entry fees.
Make everything affiliated and you will lose the yard dressage people can hack to, as small yards won't want the faff of being inspected or having to run to certain dates, upload results to deadlines on databases.
It's probably fine if you've grown up with horses/have a lot of money, your mum will have shown you it all or you have really regular training and the money for support, transport etc. But if you don't have a horsey family, learn at a riding school as a kid and buy your first own horse as an adult, the entry levels need to be super accessible. Increasing regulation always increases costs in any walk of life and I just don't think having everything affiliated will show any benefits to the average leisure riding club level competitor. It would reduce participation and make competing even more elitist which would be bad for everyone.
I think the unaff leagues/competitions are great! A monopoly is never good for the customers. Some competition will hopefully make BE up their game so they cater for the needs of the 80-1m amateur market. In my opinion we want well built courses, lots of options within 1.5hr travel time, cheaper entry fees, prizes/prize money, options for qualifying for things/finals, nice rosettes and a good photographer! Professional riders and serious amateurs going up the levels probably want different things, so I think BE is going to have to come up with a tiered approach to membership and entry fees, before they lose even more competition dates to unaffiliated competitions which are more lucrative for the venues whilst being cheaper for the competitors.
Bernster
Well-Known Member
RF I’m still not clear what’s ‘broke’ about the unaff circuit that needs fixing with affiliation? I’m also not convinced affiliated does fix it, or it wouldn’t give me what I want anyway.
RachelFerd
Well-Known Member
Oh, I don't have blind faith in the affiliated organisations - I just think that having the *ability* to regulate is better than no ability to regulate.
I am continually frustrated by the attitude in this country that anyone has the right to compete in whatever they want, no matter their capability level or their horse's fitness.
But you can't improve that by just letting it all happen in an unregulated environment. At the very least, I do know people, who have been most put out, that a TA or Steward has had to 'have a chat' with them at a BE event about their out-of-control XC round etc. They aren't happy about it, but it has usually had a significant impact on them doing more training - which is a V positive thing!
TPO
Well-Known Member
100%
RachelFerd
Well-Known Member
The current unaffiliated position is that it is eroding the British Eventing calendar to the point where the sport seems unsustainable. A collapse of the governing body would be fairly disasterous for the sport overall - ironic when we've just won a team gold medal at the Olympics.
But I also, at a purely ideological level, do not agree with allowing entirely unregulated sport to take place - which is the unpopular opinion (made supremely obvious in many of these responses!!)
DabDab
Ah mud, splendid
The unaffiliated events that I have been involved in in recent years have been much better managed for the benefit of the horses than anything I have previously known. And unfortunately the fact that they are unaffiliated has positively helped in that respect - people will generally take their quiet telling off at an unaffiliated, whereas at an affiliated event with the same stewards and the same venue, you get a lot more aggro for intervening, plus rules getting quoted etc.
So while I agree, I think that the affiliated rulebooks would need an overhaul to improve their offering in that respect first.
In terms of dressage, personally I've seen lameness issues at every level. It's a bit of a tricky one I think because (particularly at higher levels) I've seen horses look lame in walk going to the ring, but then the rider manages to sort of hold them together for the test in such a way that it makes the lame/not lame question look considerably more borderline. Currently such a horse may not score massively highly but it won't be pulled up for lameness either.
All tricky issues, but I suspect external events will start to make changes before the governing bodies do ?.
As a side note in terms of the comments about governance and regulation. I work in one of the most highly regulated industries going, and yet the level of dysfunction within the industry in general is honestly mind blowing. Of course the hope is that increased regulation leads to better outcomes, but unfortunately humans do funny things in response to regulation. What does work is good management and a strong culture. That is something that the governing bodies absolutely can give, but at the moment they don't do as well as they could.
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LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
The French system is 2 tier which you have not pointed out. It does have an unaff scene through the RCs. With those you do not need licences, the riding is as bad in the uk and its ok, but not great in event quality (ours would be higher here).
The breeding thing is also linked to hefty prizes at events if your horse is registered under the french studbooks. It provides a big motivation but also means they have a weird thing in France where they want 4/5yos and then afterwards they rapidly drop price for older horses. The french just are not interested in older horses. They can be picked up a lot cheaper if lower levels horses past 7 years old.
I do love the French database and I have seen it in action when I stayed with my pro eventer friend in France. She took me through how it worked. Considering we cannot even manage a national database to record a horse passport I am not optimistic we will manage anything. We have major issues in funding whereas in France it all comes from nationalised betting.
My biggest annoyance is that BD, BE and BS cannot pull their heads out from their backsides and offer unitary membership. Politically they just cannot be aligned on it. They cannot even be aligned on flu vacs so really no hope for anything more.
Finally, eventing is becoming more 2 tier than ever and BE is stuck on this one. It is becoming an elite and youth membership body. I thought what Cornbury did in the 3* with balloting was terrible for the sport and makes me wonder what is the point of being an ambitious amateur if the whole system is against me? I pay the same as an elite rider yet effectively being classed as a 2nd class citizen. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The youth training makes me envious as an adult as BE have now done away with the training side for adults. It was poorly thought out in the first place with the training requiring profit to pay a salary so you could go to your local BE trainer for cheaper than doing it through BE.
The breeding thing is also linked to hefty prizes at events if your horse is registered under the french studbooks. It provides a big motivation but also means they have a weird thing in France where they want 4/5yos and then afterwards they rapidly drop price for older horses. The french just are not interested in older horses. They can be picked up a lot cheaper if lower levels horses past 7 years old.
I do love the French database and I have seen it in action when I stayed with my pro eventer friend in France. She took me through how it worked. Considering we cannot even manage a national database to record a horse passport I am not optimistic we will manage anything. We have major issues in funding whereas in France it all comes from nationalised betting.
My biggest annoyance is that BD, BE and BS cannot pull their heads out from their backsides and offer unitary membership. Politically they just cannot be aligned on it. They cannot even be aligned on flu vacs so really no hope for anything more.
Finally, eventing is becoming more 2 tier than ever and BE is stuck on this one. It is becoming an elite and youth membership body. I thought what Cornbury did in the 3* with balloting was terrible for the sport and makes me wonder what is the point of being an ambitious amateur if the whole system is against me? I pay the same as an elite rider yet effectively being classed as a 2nd class citizen. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The youth training makes me envious as an adult as BE have now done away with the training side for adults. It was poorly thought out in the first place with the training requiring profit to pay a salary so you could go to your local BE trainer for cheaper than doing it through BE.
SOS
Well-Known Member
Yes because we don’t see horses being flogged over the last few fences at high level BE or being pushed beyond their capabilities as someone steps in…. Oh wait hang on they don’t!
One rider near myself has competed at 5* with falls every time. The commentators are often very careful with their words and the rounds make risky viewing. They have no stable BE record but serious money has bought them into the top of the game. No comments have ever been made.
I just went to review said riders record and the BE site is under maintenance - the multi million pound website which has become less user friendly.
I would have your faith if BE pulled these things up but they just don’t. In fact I’ve seen PC be more strict than BE on riding standard.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I would be interested to know more about horse owning in France and whether the (to me excessively) regulated competition culture prevents horse owners from ever putting their first foot on the step. LEC had partly answered that above while I've been writing this.
And I'm still yet to read any reason why a horse whose parentage is not known should be barred from entering a competition. It doesnt't prevent unsound horses being bred from. It may even encourage inbreeding and overbreeding to try to produce a champion. It doesn't stop people competing unfit or lame horses or ones that are not up to the job.
It's completely illogical that a horse bred to, for example, flat race, is allowed to compete in a Prelim dressage or 80cm ode, while one whose parentage isn't known can't. That, to me, smacks purely of protecting the breeders of registered horses and the finances of the breed societies that register them. And definitely would deny thousands of people in this country the pleasure of a little local low pressure outing with their horse.
I'm biased, of course, ?, I have two cracking good horses who wouldn't qualify.
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LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
There is a 4 tier system in France. I am also a bit unkind calling it unaff as I suppose technically every single rider even those starting out at a riding school are affiliated as need to pay to be a member for insurance. There is a lot to recommend for the french system but its also heavily funded by horse racing. We are so disparate in the UK.
Competition for children on ponies and club riders takes place within clubs that promote access to horse riding for all. It represents 120,000 riders who take part in an average of 10 competitions a year, i.e. nearly a million trial starts. Riders have a wide range of disciplines and technical levels to choose from, which makes it easier for instructors to provide tuition based on success. Their annual meetings are the “Grand Tournoi” (Grand Tournament) and the Generali French Open at the “Parc Equestre Fédéral” in Lamotte.
Amateur competition involves 35,000 competitors who like to spend their weekend in competition to improve their own technique and that of their horse. Excellence circuits for the best With the “Tournée des As”, the youngest pony and horse riders have a training circuit that helps them gain access to the highest level.
Professional Over 3,000 riders use the Pro circuit as a springboard for preparing for international competition, particularly for the Grand National show jumping, eventing and dressage circuit.
High level 140 riders have Ministry of Sport “high-level athlete” status. The French Tour, Eventing Tour and Dress’Tour are circuits of the highest level in each of the 3 Olympic disciplines. The FFE takes part in disabled sport, up to Paralympics level.
All National riders have to have a licence, which costs around 36.00€, in order to to compete at shows or be a member of a 'club' which most riding schools are. This is renewed every year. Plus a fee depending on the level that you want to ride at. Club level is free, Amateur 80.00€ and Pro 330.00€ per year, at the moment.
With an unregistered horse you cannot compete above club level. I guess it gives people motivation to get properly registered horses and for those breeding horses to do it properly for value. I think it would be better for horse welfare. French meat horses on the whole tend to be very different from your average useless racehorse.
Competition for children on ponies and club riders takes place within clubs that promote access to horse riding for all. It represents 120,000 riders who take part in an average of 10 competitions a year, i.e. nearly a million trial starts. Riders have a wide range of disciplines and technical levels to choose from, which makes it easier for instructors to provide tuition based on success. Their annual meetings are the “Grand Tournoi” (Grand Tournament) and the Generali French Open at the “Parc Equestre Fédéral” in Lamotte.
Amateur competition involves 35,000 competitors who like to spend their weekend in competition to improve their own technique and that of their horse. Excellence circuits for the best With the “Tournée des As”, the youngest pony and horse riders have a training circuit that helps them gain access to the highest level.
Professional Over 3,000 riders use the Pro circuit as a springboard for preparing for international competition, particularly for the Grand National show jumping, eventing and dressage circuit.
High level 140 riders have Ministry of Sport “high-level athlete” status. The French Tour, Eventing Tour and Dress’Tour are circuits of the highest level in each of the 3 Olympic disciplines. The FFE takes part in disabled sport, up to Paralympics level.
All National riders have to have a licence, which costs around 36.00€, in order to to compete at shows or be a member of a 'club' which most riding schools are. This is renewed every year. Plus a fee depending on the level that you want to ride at. Club level is free, Amateur 80.00€ and Pro 330.00€ per year, at the moment.
With an unregistered horse you cannot compete above club level. I guess it gives people motivation to get properly registered horses and for those breeding horses to do it properly for value. I think it would be better for horse welfare. French meat horses on the whole tend to be very different from your average useless racehorse.
tristar
Well-Known Member
a lot of the regulation surrounding breeding ends in being about money, as usual, what a surprise, a system that favours control and possibly can lead to corruption, big money, prestige, about winning and not just the competition
exclusion by its very nature will encourage a smaller gene pool, one hting about sport horse gb is that they wish to include as many breeds as possible in their stallion grading, i am in favour of this, it gives the breeder a wide choice of possibilities to choose from ie, if one wishes to inject a welsh cob movement or arab blood there is still the possibility of putting forward the progeny for stallion grading
the continental way is to suppress the choice to certain types of stallions, albeit a lot of stallions, but they are basically very often the same bloodlines mixed up differently, for me they do not give the same predictable potency as an injection of pure bred horse every few generations which is crucial to advance and improve the bloodlines, and dare i say it soundness
so, i have no problem at all thinking sod off i will breed whatever i want to whatever i consider to be be the right choice to move forwards, so did, lo and behold the progeny was considered a potential eventing stallion by the french, i did not even bother to ask how they would get around their own rules, paperwork, i was already in my own future,
breeding is about inclusivity, diversity, however can it move forwards if it stands still, the production of the same old horse over and over again however good it looks only weakens the product over time, 3 to 4 generations is enough to deplete soundness or let physical problems become too difficult to breed out
stud book Z holland tries to breed out navicular, the only one had of theirs was a nervous wreck, quite possibly the worst thing for me i value boldness
we have a cob of unknown breeding he`s a fab little man, i consider it is a violation of my human rights to not be able to compete him, if i so wished, i have meet people who considered an appeal to the european court of human rights after being denied the opportunity to compete because of a piece of paper, this is where regulation is getting us, its a bit of a minefield
exclusion by its very nature will encourage a smaller gene pool, one hting about sport horse gb is that they wish to include as many breeds as possible in their stallion grading, i am in favour of this, it gives the breeder a wide choice of possibilities to choose from ie, if one wishes to inject a welsh cob movement or arab blood there is still the possibility of putting forward the progeny for stallion grading
the continental way is to suppress the choice to certain types of stallions, albeit a lot of stallions, but they are basically very often the same bloodlines mixed up differently, for me they do not give the same predictable potency as an injection of pure bred horse every few generations which is crucial to advance and improve the bloodlines, and dare i say it soundness
so, i have no problem at all thinking sod off i will breed whatever i want to whatever i consider to be be the right choice to move forwards, so did, lo and behold the progeny was considered a potential eventing stallion by the french, i did not even bother to ask how they would get around their own rules, paperwork, i was already in my own future,
breeding is about inclusivity, diversity, however can it move forwards if it stands still, the production of the same old horse over and over again however good it looks only weakens the product over time, 3 to 4 generations is enough to deplete soundness or let physical problems become too difficult to breed out
stud book Z holland tries to breed out navicular, the only one had of theirs was a nervous wreck, quite possibly the worst thing for me i value boldness
we have a cob of unknown breeding he`s a fab little man, i consider it is a violation of my human rights to not be able to compete him, if i so wished, i have meet people who considered an appeal to the european court of human rights after being denied the opportunity to compete because of a piece of paper, this is where regulation is getting us, its a bit of a minefield
tristar
Well-Known Member
thing is meat is meat racehorse or other wise, all sorts go for meat, very often young healthy ones
ponies in france are reg non constatee very often and their breeding is deliberately lost, excluded from the papers, because they have no clue about gb pony breeding and its value, and therefore lose a valuable asset
ester
Not slacking multitasking
what happened with cornbury ballot lec?
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
Cornbury was over subscribed for entries - no surprise as its a fantastic event. In the 3* they had an elite riders section (top 200 BE rankings) and an ordinary section. They have decided not to ballot the elite section. They have balloted the ordinary section on horse points and multiple riders.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Definitely 2nd class then! Thanks for clarifying.
Velcrobum
Well-Known Member
Where are details of the ballot as I have been on BE website to see what they were going to do.
TPO
Well-Known Member
Slight tangent but surely a clamp down on indiscriminate breeding is a good thing?
One of my mum's horses is a trotter and he is registered with traceable breeding. So horses from any background can have their pedigree recorded. It could only be a good thing for every sphere?
Only breeding good to good seems obvious and to stop breeding sub par to sub par and compromised a good move.
I know someone currently looking to breed a lame "mongrel" with bad confirmation to a wholly unsuitable (massive) stallion (poor smaller maiden mare!). Hopefully licensing would stop the breeding of currently lame and compromised horses.
Licensing for breeding even seperate from affiliated competition is desperately needed
One of my mum's horses is a trotter and he is registered with traceable breeding. So horses from any background can have their pedigree recorded. It could only be a good thing for every sphere?
Only breeding good to good seems obvious and to stop breeding sub par to sub par and compromised a good move.
I know someone currently looking to breed a lame "mongrel" with bad confirmation to a wholly unsuitable (massive) stallion (poor smaller maiden mare!). Hopefully licensing would stop the breeding of currently lame and compromised horses.
Licensing for breeding even seperate from affiliated competition is desperately needed
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
Under the event itself CORNBURY HOUSE | British Eventing
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
I agree - I do not see the issue. Doesn't matter what breed etc just needs to be recorded in some way.
It will not stop lameness etc as Swedish Warmblood Studbook has done loads of work on this but it just raises basic quality. You only need to see the work on WFFS and HYPP to see what comprehensive working together as studbooks can do. I think longer term we will see the impact for PSSM as well when they can identify the genome and test better.
TPO
Well-Known Member
Was this raised to BE? How can they justify taking the same money and treating people differently?
From that blinking website and the cost of it to things like this, I think BE needs a complete overhaul/redirection/replaced. There have been countless threads on here over the years and lots of good, workable options have been suggested. I dont know if the same happens at BE AGMs or is taken back to those in charge via the channels set up.
It must be so frustrating for every amateur paying the £££ and being treated as second rate
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
Due to the safety impact amateurs already have to jump through a lot of hoops and additional expense. I don't really have an issue with that as its to keep people alive and the most deaths are at 3* level. Its just a kicker if you were trying to get your qualifications for an end of season 3*L and now been balloted because you are not that competitive at the level (so do not have the points) but you are safe.
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
it was ever thus, though this is a more explicit way that the amateurs were penalised. When i was eventing it was common knowledge that if an event was over subscribed the lower levels would be balloted first to preserve the higher level classes, this is the same thing really - prioritising Pro sport over amateurs (generalising but i think it holds true). Having a specific elite vs normal class just makes it that more obvious 
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I tried making suggestions to BE once and was told to bring it up at the AGM. I pointed out that the AGM was in London and that from Manchester the rail fare on the day was over £200. I also pointed out that the points I was making were to try to keep costs down for grass roots members, the very people who would be least able to travel to London for a midweek AGM. The response was basically "tough".
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ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
We have it already and it doesn't now. If the stallion was phenomenally successful before breaking down early it will be bred from. Any well bred mare that breaks down is liable to be bred from. It's only going to stop if the stallion and mare have to be proven to have never broken down under a normal workload.
I absolutely take the point on hereditary diseases though, good stuff is going on there.
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Kat
Well-Known Member
Imagine what could be achieved if every rider was paying membership to the same organisation rather than maybe to one of maybe 10 and some not being a member of anything.
DabDab
Ah mud, splendid
That, along with a payment structure according to use/level, would be fantastic
TPO
Well-Known Member
Yeah my bad for not wording my thoughts properly.
If mares and stallions had to be graded that would hopefully reduce the pool of horses chronically lame due to conformation issues rather than excluding top class horses who have picked up non heredity "tweaks".
I dont suppose that many of us would had to think for long to name people who have bred from very unsuitable, for multiple reasons, mares simply because they have a uterus (& owners think horses should "have a job").
If stallions HAD to be graded and licensed before they could be used that would help. If mares had to be graded/licensed to some degree that would help.
I mean bin end are still going to bin end because that's what those people do irrespective of rules. But it might stop the average Joe who's bought a questionable mare that has broken down from breeding it to a cheap stallion who'll cover anything.
Bit of internal(?) rage going on about this topic. I've just found out that an acquaintance is doing something along these lines and it's wrong for multiple reasons mainly for the poor mare.