It’s no longer true that hard work…

As I’m sure has been said before and by others, nowt wrong with using your privileges alongside talent to get to where you want to go. I’m sure all of us would do the same. The issue is when said privileged top riders claim that they got to their position just based on hard work, and fail to acknowledge that financial privilege and backing has played an enormous role in facilitating their career. Money talks, particularly in the horse world, and it would be nice to see that acknowledged as part of success, rather than peddling this narrative that all you need is hard work and talent. H&H are particularly bad on this, and it’s one of many reasons why I stopped getting the magazine as I felt the quality of journalism had taken a nosedive.
 
LEC said:
She wouldn’t have been…. Because she was trained by the best from day one and sat on the best ponies from day 1 and able to attend the best schools etc
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There are people who make it without huge family wealth.

"Scotsman Ian Stark worked as a clerk in the Department of Health & Social Security whilst establishing himself as a leading light in three-day eventing. Although he won seven European titles (six team and one individual) and was a member of the World title winning team in 1986, he is also remembered for his series of second place finishes. His four Olympic silvers without winning a gold has only ever been beaten by Soviet gymnast Viktor Lisitsky."
 
oldie48 said:
Actually I am happy to celebrate anyone who competes at the highest level of any sport and with 5* eventing I don't care if they got there because they are privileged or not, their neck still breaks like anyone else's!
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I do care how they got there, which was ironically my wildly unpopular point. If riding lessons are costing on average £40-50 each - how is anyone from an average or under privileged background going to learn to ride in the first place? Sure everyone ends up equal in the end, but our lives between then can be polar opposites of extremes.

My point of "who cares" is that I am genuinely so bored of unrelatable, rich and privileged families dominating equestrian sports. I don't care. It makes it unenjoyable to watch for me, and I know I'm not alone. I stopped watching equestrian influencers during the first lockdown when their ability to continue completely unrestricted due to having their horses at home with an arena and transport was so far away from the experience I was having that it was totally unrelatable. The only thing we had in common was that we both liked horses.

If hard work alone was enough, the world would be very different.

Sorry if that was not the point of this discussion, but it seemed relevant to me which is why I replied.
 
ycbm said:
There are people who make it without huge family wealth.

"Scotsman Ian Stark worked as a clerk in the Department of Health & Social Security whilst establishing himself as a leading light in three-day eventing. Although he won seven European titles (six team and one individual) and was a member of the World title winning team in 1986, he is also remembered for his series of second place finishes. His four Olympic silvers without winning a gold has only ever been beaten by Soviet gymnast Viktor Lisitsky."
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I think it was easier back in the day in some ways. Ian also had his own yard/land and wife doing his horses. Land is ridiculous now. Even just qualifying to go to badminton is £££ and you need a mega horse. In 80s you needed just two advanced runs and could have a nice horse who didn’t need to be the athlete they are now.
 
Would those claiming only the rich can succeed accept that someone whose family farm rented land, worked on said farm, schooled on the local common and seriously considered becoming a farrier, could become a top level eventer?
 
YorksG said:
Would those claiming only the rich can succeed accept that someone whose family farm rented land, worked on said farm, schooled on the local common and seriously considered becoming a farrier, could become a top level eventer?
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If you want to get into horses in any way, having a family background in farming, being able to keep horses at home and having access to the common in the first place is a pretty solid list of advantages that would perhaps make up for quite a bit in pure cash injections from "traditionally" well off parents.
 
YorksG said:
Would those claiming only the rich can succeed accept that someone whose family farm rented land, worked on said farm, schooled on the local common and seriously considered becoming a farrier, could become a top level eventer?
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Yes they could.
If they had the talent and work ethic.
And crucially were LUCKY enough to find the financial backing from somewhere.

Id also caveat the definition of ‘top level eventer’. I class competitive at international/knocking on teams as top level.

There are far more examples of riders making up the numbers at advanced/4*/5* on one or two horse wonders running in uk events. Impressive in their own right, but much more achievable financially
 
smolmaus said:
If you want to get into horses in any way, having a family background in farming, being able to keep horses at home and having access to the common in the first place is a pretty solid list of advantages that would perhaps make up for quite a bit in pure cash injections from "traditionally" well off parents.
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I quite agree, much more chance than if you live in an inner city flat, however there is a massive difference between "having everything given to you" and having some advantages. It isn't an either or discussion imo. There may be a world class jazz trumpeter out there, who will never have the chance to play, because their parents can't afford a trumpet and the lessons to learn how to play.
 
ihatework said:
Yes they could.
If they had the talent and work ethic.
And crucially were LUCKY enough to find the financial backing from somewhere.

Id also caveat the definition of ‘top level eventer’. I class competitive at international/knocking on teams as top level.

There are far more examples of riders making up the numbers at advanced/4*/5* on one or two horse wonders running in uk events. Impressive in their own right, but much more achievable financially
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I certainly know of one international team member who has exactly that background.
 
YorksG said:
I certainly know of one international team member who has exactly that background.
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I don’t doubt it.
But at some point they had to have the right horse sound, funded, travelled internationally, jumping through the team selection hoops. Keeping transport on the road etc etc.
So they either had the initial wealth to do that themselves or they had financial backing from a parent or owner, which then allowed them to showcase and open up further financial backing.

I think I must be missing your point?
 
YorksG said:
Would those claiming only the rich can succeed accept that someone whose family farm rented land, worked on said farm, schooled on the local common and seriously considered becoming a farrier, could become a top level eventer?
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Of course they can, but they are already more privileged than most average horse riders, many of whom do not own their own horse or land. I would also say that is not the background of the majority at the top of equestrian sports.
 
sakura said:
I do care how they got there, which was ironically my wildly unpopular point. If riding lessons are costing on average £40-50 each - how is anyone from an average or under privileged background going to learn to ride in the first place? Sure everyone ends up equal in the end, but our lives between then can be polar opposites of extremes.

My point of "who cares" is that I am genuinely so bored of unrelatable, rich and privileged families dominating equestrian sports. I don't care. It makes it unenjoyable to watch for me, and I know I'm not alone. I stopped watching equestrian influencers during the first lockdown when their ability to continue completely unrestricted due to having their horses at home with an arena and transport was so far away from the experience I was having that it was totally unrelatable. The only thing we had in common was that we both liked horses.

If hard work alone was enough, the world would be very different.

Sorry if that was not the point of this discussion, but it seemed relevant to me which is why I replied.
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Sounds like you actually do care, if it's caused you to stop watching or supporting the sport ?‍♀️
 
sakura said:
Of course they can, but they are already more privileged than most average horse riders, many of whom do not own their own horse or land. I would also say that is not the background of the majority at the top of equestrian sports.
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And the person who rides at a riding school, is already more privileged than the one who doesn't, just like the person who swims every day has more chance of making it, than the child who swims once a week with school, all based on finance and parental support.
 
sakura said:
I do care how they got there, which was ironically my wildly unpopular point. If riding lessons are costing on average £40-50 each - how is anyone from an average or under privileged background going to learn to ride in the first place? Sure everyone ends up equal in the end, but our lives between then can be polar opposites of extremes.

My point of "who cares" is that I am genuinely so bored of unrelatable, rich and privileged families dominating equestrian sports. I don't care. It makes it unenjoyable to watch for me, and I know I'm not alone. I stopped watching equestrian influencers during the first lockdown when their ability to continue completely unrestricted due to having their horses at home with an arena and transport was so far away from the experience I was having that it was totally unrelatable. The only thing we had in common was that we both liked horses.

If hard work alone was enough, the world would be very different.

Sorry if that was not the point of this discussion, but it seemed relevant to me which is why I replied.
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That is your choice and if you find it unenjoyable, no-one is forcing you to watch. Sakura, I am a pragmatist and tbh I don't find any point in being upset about some people having much more than me, it's a fact of life. I am perfectly capable of recognising people's achievements without having to pick over the advantages they have had in life. That seems rather churlish to me, but clearly we think and feel differently. If you look at the background of anyone who is not British, they also tend to come from very privileged families. I came from a working class inner city family, didn't ride as a child and have no idea where my love of horses came from as the only horse I ever saw as a child belonged to the rag and bone man. I started riding very late in life and bought my first horse aged nearly 50. In my book, anyone who had the chance to ride/own a pony as a child was very lucky but you know what? I don't lose any sleep over anything I can't change and having spent the last 20 odd years trying to learn to ride well, I take absolutely nothing from anyone who rides at the highest level because I know how difficult it is. Equestrian sport is elitist, has always been so and is probably more so now than it was 20 years ago. Fact.
 
I agree with you oldie48, however it does bother me. Not because I'm in any way jealous, but because I need to relate to something in order to enjoy watching it and be inspired. I want to see equestrian sports more inclusive. I would go so far as to say it would greatly improve the sports popularity. Am I a little bitter to no longer find joy in a sport I used to love? Of course. Because I do care about the sport and I haven't entirely given up on it yet.

If the future of equestrianism is to stay incredibly privileged, then so be it. But I think that would be a shame.
 
Is it maybe that in this era of social media it is move visible that some are more privileged than others? I maybe see it a little different;y than others, because to me we are all just somewhere on a scale. The child who gets into a pony club team might have been helped because their parents could buy an experienced pony, so compared to those who could not the child is privileged, but compare them to a child who has several top ponies not so.I suppose the same in any sport, a tennis player who can afford to train with the best coaches has a higher chance of success than one who cannot. We all need to find success in what we do in our own way. I rarely compete now, but when I do I count success as having a lovely time, and no injuries to either horses or me. Only a very tiny percentage of participants can reach the top in any sport, but it does not mean that there is no place for others to participate, and it also does not mean that those who do reach the top with help from parents have not worked very hard to get there. Ultimately the world is unfair, and that won't change in any area of life.

Edited to add that we all have some successes with our horses, whether that is seeing them achieve something or in competition. The truth is that any success I have with mine is also because I am in some way privileged, in the sense that I could afford to buy and keep the horses, if I could not I am sure that my riding abilities would be different. Would any of us be happy to hear someone saying of us 'oh well, they only won because they could afford to buy a horse'. The reality is that if you can afford to own a horse you are already someway in a privileged position compared to a huge chunk of the population.
 
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