Iv just shod my horse after 2 yrs bare foot and he's a different horse

Well I have to say, for the first time ever I think, I agree with Shils!!!!! Had a Highland with rock hard feet who was absolutely fine bare foot.Bought my Welsh Cob.He had fronts on.Tried bare foot with him.Had a bare foot trimmer.He just didn't like it!The MINUTE he had his fronts back on he looked much happier.I now have a wonderful farrier.The best I have ever had.He is knowlegeable and helpful.Has given me loads of help and advice and even if I ever decided to go back down the barefoot route I would stick with him.As it is he now has backs on as he needed some corrective shoeing which is gently, and note gently, straightening one of his back legs which had twisted a bit.This had happened BEFORE I bought him and he passed a 5 star vetting with it.
As for bare foot trimmers.When I tried one the farrier I had at the time was not that good.I was persuaded to try a bare foot trimmer and I have to admit she was a huge improvement.Didn't like her as a person at all and she couldn't handle my kind but cheeky little Highland at all.Tried another barefoot trimmer who was a definate improvement.He panicked with the newbie though.Everything was fine until we hit a bit of a glitch and he panicked.I don't think he had much IN DEPTH knowledge.However thats my personal experiences and other people may differ.Didn't like him as a person much either.I am a grumpy old woman.
 
WOW, trust us horsey lot to think we all know best and everyone else knows nothing and is doing it all wrong!!!!! Like I've never heard that before!!!

Anybody who tries to claim that every horse can go barefoot with correct diet etc is quite frankly speaking out of their behind!!!

Horses weren't designed to work on tarmac, gravel roads etc carrying riders and pulling weights etc (if they were they'd be born wearing shoes!!), man impossed this on them, so by impossing this on them man long ago compensated the horse by shoeing them!

Now as with anything in nature, some individuals will be born with naturally very hard feet and can therefore cope with working on hard ground without shoes, others as pointed out above like tb's who were bred to race on manicured soft ground! and are renowned for having flat and hard to manage feet can't and will require shoes. Anyone who says this is because of poor diet I think needs their head examined personally!!

To sum it up, what suits one horse will NOT suit every horse.......................
 
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competitiondiva said:
WOW, trust us horsey lot to think we all know best and everyone else knows nothing and is doing it all wrong!!!!! Like I've never heard that before!!!

Anybody who tries to claim that every horse can go barefoot with correct diet etc is quite frankly speaking out of their behind!!!

Horses weren't designed to work on tarmac, gravel roads etc carrying riders and pulling weights etc (if they were they'd be born wearing shoes!!), man impossed this on them, so by impossing this on them man long ago compensated the horse by shoeing them!

Now as with anything in nature, some individuals will be born with naturally very hard feet and can therefore cope with working on hard ground without shoes, others as pointed out above like tb's who were bred to race on manicured soft ground! and are renowned for having flat and hard to manage
feet can't and will require shoes. Anyone who says this is because of poor diet I think needs their head examined personally!!

To sum it up, what suits one horse will NOT suit every horse.......................
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This is quite right, my lad by the way is still fine and a whole new Leese off life now he's shod again. He's never had a lame stride in his life and being bare foot made him sore, and unhappy about things. I get told " he's got a problem in his hoof" shoeing has covered it up. He's just bloody sore that's all.

To comment on what somebody else has said about le track and lame horses, iv ridden and see some off these bare foot horses and was not impressed, they moved wrong and the one I rode was very wrong but the owners get use to the way they move so " wrong" can become the norm and they feel it's right. Somebody else riding mind can feel the difference stright away
 
The thing I don't get with this barefoot evangalism is why barefooters can't accept that it isn't for every horse. Over the years I could have paid off my mortgage with the amount I've paid in shoeing costs, so who wouldn't go unshod if the could!

Where I spent my childhood there were no farriers, barefoot or not. So all the horses went without shoes. As a result the breeding programme was careful to select for good strong well shaped feet. So we had sound horses with no shoes. But that's not the case in the UK so some can't cope irrespective of their owners care and attention.
 
Thing is it always gets put down to something which the owner can't manage or such as to much grass. I would rather let my horse eat grass and be shod thanks. Other things in the diet which aren't right. How about the horse just can't cope?
My bare footers are on the same diet as the rest which is low sugar,starch and high fibre with plenty off turnout which I wouldn't stop. I changed my lads diet onto what some members on here said to help him but after 2 yrs no way am I trying any longer and I feel disguised that I let him go that long.
Barefoot people keep saying each are different and need certain things to help them cope etc, so why not that some won't cope as each are different
 
0ldmare said:
The thing I don't get with this barefoot evangalism is why barefooters can't accept that it isn't for every horse. Over the years I could have paid off my mortgage with the amount I've paid in shoeing costs, so who wouldn't go unshod if the could!

Where I spent my childhood there were no farriers, barefoot or not. So all the horses went without shoes. As a result the breeding programme was careful to select for good strong well shaped feet. So we had sound horses with no shoes. But that's not the case in the UK so some can't cope irrespective of their owners care and attention.
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I don't think barefooters are evangelists and I think this is an unfair badge to wear.

What tends to happen is that 'barefoot' becomes a last resort for problematic shod cases where all attempts to correct it with shoes fail and the owner looks to other options before euthanasia.

Certainly, most go on to be 'rehabbed' and go on and live healthy lives for many years, others once the pathological issue has been corrected will need sympathetic shoeing again. It's up to the owner to discriminate when that will be with the help of the trimmer, the farrier and the vet.

Diet IS an important issue, just like us, eating a diet high in sugar leads to cardio-metabolic problems.

No one has forced barefoot onto anybody, so why everyone has to get so defensive and nasty (not you Oldmare even though I quoted you) about it is beyond me. I admit I've got heated about it a couple of times but only when people badmouth trimmers and 'barefooters' unfairly.
 
Can i ask,are any horses that are actually left barefoot since birth?If they were you might find they take to barefoot a lot better,rather than having their feet changed all the time from one to other!How are their feet ever going to cope if they've never had a chance to harden up since young?Just a genuine question
 
use a name said:
Can i ask,are any horses that are actually left barefoot since birth?If they were you might find they take to barefoot a lot better,rather than having their feet changed all the time from one to other!How are their feet ever going to cope if they've never had a chance to harden up since young?Just a genuine question
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I don't know anyone that shoes youngstock til they need to i.e. plan to work them when broken.
So really all horses are 'barefoot since birth' - the ones with good, hard feet don't generally get shod as people normally break them without shoes, and the ones who get footy during the process get shod.
I suspect that pretty much ALL horses' feet 'have a chance to harden up since young', but with the increased wear/tear of ridden work, some still need shoes.
S :D
 
Shilasdair said:
I don't know anyone that shoes youngstock til they need to i.e. plan to work them when broken.
So really all horses are 'barefoot since birth' - the ones with good, hard feet don't generally get shod as people normally break them without shoes, and the ones who get footy during the process get shod.
I suspect that pretty much ALL horses' feet 'have a chance to harden up since young', but with the increased wear/tear of ridden work, some still need shoes.
S :D
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Ah,i think you just said it,all horses are left unshod until about 3.What happens as soon as they start work?Shoes are on!!And why?most likely because thats just what you do.Because horses have shoes.Id like to see someone try without shoes and see the result.;)
 
use a name said:
Ah,i think you just said it,all horses are left unshod until about 3.What happens as soon as they start work?Shoes are on!!And why?most likely because thats just what you do.Because horses have shoes.Id like to see someone try without shoes and see the result.;)
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No, that's not what I said.
I said most folk don't bother shoeing youngsters until it becomes apparent that they need shoes.
My two youngsters have never had shoes on. One will probably be ok regardless of what work I ever do with her (granite feet), the other will probably need shoes for roadwork.
Same management, different genetic make up, and therefore horn quality.
S :D
 
Shilasdair said:
No, that's not what I said.
I said most folk don't bother shoeing youngsters until it becomes apparent that they need shoes.
My two youngsters have never had shoes on. One will probably be ok regardless of what work I ever do with her (granite feet), the other will probably need shoes for roadwork.
Same management, different genetic make up, and therefore horn quality.
S :D
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OK,well all i know is,(from what iv seen of people around me where i live)the horse starts work,the shoes are on.It seems that only cobby ones dont have shoes or ponies(if any).Yet i know people with warmbloods,TB's, ponies etc who are all barefoot,no problems.But obviously none of us are ever gonna agree!:p
 
My little AA mare wasn't shod until she was six, she had fantastic feet and didn't need shoeing. However as her career developed and she began to compete affiliated she was finding it increasingly hard to stay upright on soft ground and after a fall XC which was purely down to her slipping we took the decision to shoe her so that she could have studs in. Shoes were religiously removed during the off season and replaced as she started to compete again. Now she is in a non-competitive home she does everything unshod. The sole reason for us being able to treat her like that is her fantastic foot genes.

My ride and drive pony has never been shod, she dislikes standing on a loose stone in the road but other than that she has fantastic feet and does not need shoeing. Her loaner is desperate for her to be shod as she thinks it would look good. I have written it into the loan agreement that she is to remain unshod. Given that her rider is 7 it seems stupid to mess her feet about and who in their right mind wants a kiddy's pony armed with four iron bars?

Our current youngster came to us with dreadfully bashed up feet - at rising five she had never seen a farrier (or a trimmer). As she will be a child's pony it would be our intention never to shoe but if she can't cope - and we won't really know that until we've had her on the road - she won't be shod.

When breaking or bringing on a youngster my first thought certainly wouldn't be "Let's stick shoes on it"
 
jemima_too said:
My little AA mare wasn't shod until she was six, she had fantastic feet and didn't need shoeing. However as her career developed and she began to compete affiliated she was finding it increasingly hard to stay upright on soft ground and after a fall XC which was purely down to her slipping we took the decision to shoe her so that she could have studs in. Shoes were religiously removed during the off season and replaced as she started to compete again. Now she is in a non-competitive home she does everything unshod. The sole reason for us being able to treat her like that is her fantastic foot genes.

My ride and drive pony has never been shod, she dislikes standing on a loose stone in the road but other than that she has fantastic feet and does not need shoeing. Her loaner is desperate for her to be shod as she thinks it would look good. I have written it into the loan agreement that she is to remain unshod. Given that her rider is 7 it seems stupid to mess her feet about and who in their right mind wants a kiddy's pony armed with four iron bars?

Our current youngster came to us with dreadfully bashed up feet - at rising five she had never seen a farrier (or a trimmer). As she will be a child's pony it would be our intention never to shoe but if she can't cope - and we won't really know that until we've had her on the road - she won't be shod.

When breaking or bringing on a youngster my first thought certainly wouldn't be "Let's stick shoes on it"
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Its nice to hear it.All i know is that is the general idea around me(put shoes on),and mine used to be shod just for the sake of it as she was when we bought her.I have got 1 youngster but he cant be ridden anyway.He wouldnt have shoes on if he was,as for the other she used to be shod but no longer is.Both are fine.
 
use a name said:
Its nice to hear it.All i know is that is the general idea around me(put shoes on),and mine used to be shod just for the sake of it as she was when we bought her.I have got 1 youngster but he cant be ridden anyway.He wouldnt have shoes on if he was,as for the other she used to be shod but no longer is.Both are fine.
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That's all good provided you respond to your horse becoming lame or sore by getting it shod again rather than stressing about it's diet. I am absolutely NOT into keeping a horse without shoes for a principle.
 
horses go sound when they are shod because they're feet go numb, when there is a lack of blood supply i.e. the frog is never in contact with much so as the hoof wall grows down it is weaker and less healthy, when that bit gets down to the nailed on area then your shoes come off ripping most of the foot with it, back to square one!
 
snopuma said:
horses go sound when they are shod because they're feet go numb, when there is a lack of blood supply i.e. the frog is never in contact with much so as the hoof wall grows down it is weaker and less healthy, when that bit gets down to the nailed on area then your shoes come off ripping most of the foot with it, back to square one!
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well said ;)
 
snopuma said:
horses go sound when they are shod because they're feet go numb, when there is a lack of blood supply i.e. the frog is never in contact with much so as the hoof wall grows down it is weaker and less healthy, when that bit gets down to the nailed on area then your shoes come off ripping most of the foot with it, back to square one!
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Now this is the type of claim that is bandied about by the Barefoot Brigade with no evidence that it is true. If you would care to at least read the paragraphs on anesthesia and circulation you will see the experience of someone with a fair degree of expertise,Henry Heymering, who would refute that claim.
BTW, out of interest, Dr Strasser, about who he discusses her method, is now accepted by many to be totally discredited and there was a spate of her trained trimmers being prosecuted successfully for cruelty. Out of interest, do those using Barefoot trimmers know exactly what their history of 'professional' training and interest is ?

http://www.anvilmag.com/farrier/207f2.htm
 
horserider said:
Now this is the type of claim that is bandied about by the Barefoot Brigade with no evidence that it is true. If you would care to at least read the paragraphs on anesthesia and circulation you will see the experience of someone with a fair degree of expertise,Henry Heymering, who would refute that claim.
BTW, out of interest, Dr Strasser, about who he discusses her method, is now accepted by many to be totally discredited and there was a spate of her trained trimmers being prosecuted successfully for cruelty. Out of interest, do those using Barefoot trimmers know exactly what their history of 'professional' training and interest is ?

http://www.anvilmag.com/farrier/207f2.htm
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You cant mistake barefoot trimming as bad simply because of a bad trimmer.Thats not really anything to do with the point.Same as a neat enough farrier or a bad farrier has nothing to do with whether or not to shoe.Iv heard of the strasser method,and good i hope they get prosecuted.But my horses trimmer is a good one.
 
snopuma said:
horses go sound when they are shod because they're feet go numb, when there is a lack of blood supply i.e. the frog is never in contact with much so as the hoof wall grows down it is weaker and less healthy, when that bit gets down to the nailed on area then your shoes come off ripping most of the foot with it, back to square one!
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Physiologically, this post is not accurate. To 'go numb' nerves in the feet would have to die - this happens only when a horse is accidentally or deliberately denerved (sometimes used to prolong the life of navicular syndrome sufferers).
Putting shoes on does not denerve a foot (make it 'go numb').
The hoof doesn't grow from the frog, but from the coronary band.
You could argue that yes, the frog is in less contact with the ground, so doesn't act as much as a circulatory pump. Then again, you could argue that by enabling a horse to work more, that the circulation is improved by exercise (and all the benefits to the efficiency of the circulatory system).
S :D
 
The point the farrier makes in my above link, is that contrary to Stassers evidence, there is no difference in the reaction of the shod and unshod hoof to hoof testers thereby indicating that the foot is not numb. The temperature measured by a thermometor shows no difference in the shod and unshod hoof either.
 
I still don't buy the argument that all horses can be barefoot if their diet and environment is managed correctly. Surely its down to the foot conformation, quality of foot and the type of work they are sked to undertake. Whilst quality of hoof can be improved with good management and shape can be optimised, I don't think this is enough to say all horses can be barefoot

Also the argument that its only in recent history that horses have been shod doesn't hold water. We have bred and inbred the horse to produce certain characteristics, eg speed, shape etc. Only responsible breeders wouldn't breed if a horse had bad feet but was desirable in every other way. Saying the horse of today can be compared directly to horses that existed 1000 years ago is a bit like comparing a whippet with a wolf.

As I said in my last post, the horses where I lived as a youngster were very specifically bred to be sound, have stamina and a good temperment. Nothing much else mattered, they were working horses for rounding up sheep on a 125,000 acre ranch (not a typo!). Many of these horses would be laughed at by HHO as many were a rum looking lot, but sound, tough and amenable they
were - but that's purely down to many generations of horses being specifically selected for those traits.
 
That’s very interesting to know, and of course not all are the same, some cope being bare others don’t. My boy pulled a shoes off in the field yesterday (feeling batter after a 2 year un attended back problem with old owner) and couldn’t care less he only has 3 shoes on until the farrier comes, but another TB at the yard did the same a week ago and she slows right down on the concrete and it obviously really bothers her.
 
Shilasdair said:
Physiologically, this post is not accurate. To 'go numb' nerves in the feet would have to die - this happens only when a horse is accidentally or deliberately denerved (sometimes used to prolong the life of navicular syndrome sufferers).
Putting shoes on does not denerve a foot (make it 'go numb').
The hoof doesn't grow from the frog, but from the coronary band.
You could argue that yes, the frog is in less contact with the ground, so doesn't act as much as a circulatory pump. Then again, you could argue that by enabling a horse to work more, that the circulation is improved by exercise (and all the benefits to the efficiency of the circulatory system).
S :D
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Blood not being pumped round the foot,tissue starts to die.Shoes come off,horse hurts when walking.The hoof also hasnt had a chance to harden so it is soft.It doesnt really matter that the hoof grows from the coronary band,it is still damaging to the hoof.But with shoes on,it makes no difference how much exercise the horse does,it is still not working correctly.Also again,the jarring up the leg.
 
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