Joe Midgely Clinics

Ample Prosecco

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Another great Joe lesson. Started just by demonstrating her lovely relaxed, loose reined canter. Which she did beautifully! So the next step now is to start to ask for more collection. Before she was able to be soft in the canter, there was nothing to work with. You can’t get a tense, rushing, braced horse to collect. We had to build a better canter first, and now we can add in some refinement. Which requires a very different approach. Before, we were circling for ages, waiting for an opportunity to release, because she had no idea what we were after. Now she gets into a lovely canter straight away, but she loses balances and speeds up. So we stop, re-set and start again. He used the analogy of walking a tightrope. If it starts to go wrong, is it better to just keep hanging on for dear life, to try and regain balance? Or is better to put a foot down, regroup, and go again. This worked really well. So I’d ask for collection or lateral work and if it went wrong, bring her back to trot, rebalance, pop her into canter, try again.

Again it showed me the difference between LEARNING and ‘schooling with instruction’. The exercises are always moving on, because she is always moving on. And there is so much home-work in between.

Also did some gate-opening practice. Lots of holes show up there. As you are one handed and needing the horse to move very precisely. So that led on to work on leg yielding - which in Lottie’s case should be called hand -yielding, because she does not understand that the leg alone means sideways. She needs a bit of hand. She will step the back end over with a leg aid at the girth, instead of side passing. So there is a gap there and we have lots of homework to do on moving laterally and backwards, just off the leg. In fact we got some nice rein-back steps with no rein at the end. She was really searching for the answer. She’s a clever horse and she is learning to learn.

Finally worked on downwards transitions and the soft stop. Did this in a straight line, through walk-halt, then trot-halt and finally, canter- halt. And will then also progress to canter-jump-halt. Aways ending with a soft feel, and a step back on a long rein so the horse is not just moving back while thinking forward, but is actually thinking back. That stops the bracing in the downward transition.

Joe is all about functional skills. Is the horse a useful animal? Whatever you teach should translate to doing a job easily and well. Does not really matter what the job is. If you can control all four corners of the horse, forwards, backwards and sideways in all gaits with one hand, with no bracing and tension, with the horse feeling confident and willing to search for the answer, then you have a good horse. And that horse can go on and do any job.

I have been a bit hung up on needing eventers to train me to event. But I don’t think I need that anymore. Not at the moment anyway. Maybe later for more technical skills, but this stuff feels foundational.

One more interesting thing is that there were a lot of parallels between Lucinda Green’s XC masterclass and Joe. And very little between Lucinda and my event training. Take straight line halt which she teaches. I have been asked to do this before in XC lessons after a jump, and it has felt adversarial. Pulling Lottie’s teeth out. Horrible. The masterclass says it is a fundamental skill – but it is hard for horses to do and needs to be taught progressively. And the key is the horse is STRAIGHT and stopping by sitting down on his hocks. This is a foundational skill for being able to collect, at speed, while staying straight - so you can collect for technical jumps just with weight shifts, and without wobbling off the line.

So to me, that sounds like something that needs to be schooled into the horse over time, not just used in a lesson with no explanation of the point of it. Other than to teach her to listen. (Which it didn’t – it taught her to argue). Joe’s straight line halt exercise seems to be exactly the same as Lucinda’s. He also focused on straightness and on the need for it to be progressive. Training a ‘soft stop’ into your horse over time. A million miles away from jumping a line then hauling your horse to a stop with no focus on the straightness.

I did also ask about the new bit. He hates it. And the grackle. But maybe that is for a different thread….. My bitting search goes on….. Or maybe with a few more weeks of schooling, I can just jump her in a snaffle.
 

TPO

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I did also ask about the new bit. He hates it. And the grackle. But maybe that is for a different thread….. My bitting search goes on….. Or maybe with a few more weeks of schooling, I can just jump her in a snaffle

Did you ask him about bitting/bit suggestions?
 

Hackback

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It does say it can take a fortnight due to high demand
I have been waiting weeks. I'm glad it's not just me. I originally filled in the website contact form, then after a couple of weeks I sent a messenger msg. That was on 18th Feb. I have joined his Good Horsemanship Channel though.
 

Hackback

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I have been waiting weeks. I'm glad it's not just me. I originally filled in the website contact form, then after a couple of weeks I sent a messenger msg. That was on 18th Feb. I have joined his Good Horsemanship Channel though.
Spoke too soon - I got a message last night! Haven't replied yet as I didn't see it until late and it seems a bit rude on a Sunday. But I am so excited 😁
 

SEL

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The bit about working on gates is fascinating. I have one pony that takes direction, listens to me and I can move his body (much better under saddle than on the ground) so all the tricky gates when we're out are manageable.

My much older pony mare is a complete PITA. Wants to barge through, has whacked my kneecap a few times and gets herself in a tiz rather than listening to her human.

Spot the one I do zero focused schooling with!! Just given myself a slap.
 

TPO

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Just to say there's now a space on the Joe clinic in April. It's held indoors in Kinross, 29-30 April.

I've no involvement, just spreading the word and can put anyone interested in touch with the organisers
 

Caol Ila

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The bit about working on gates is fascinating. I have one pony that takes direction, listens to me and I can move his body (much better under saddle than on the ground) so all the tricky gates when we're out are manageable.

My much older pony mare is a complete PITA. Wants to barge through, has whacked my kneecap a few times and gets herself in a tiz rather than listening to her human.

Spot the one I do zero focused schooling with!! Just given myself a slap.

It's so hard to get Fin to do a gate. I can control his feet when we are in the middle of an arena, say, but he gets into a tizz at gates. Maybe some PTSD associated with being run into races.

Other people don't help. They have the best of intentions and think they are helping, but they're not. If you are hacking with friends and it takes you more than a minute to sort out a gate, someone always steps in or gets off their horse. And the other day, I had schooled him for a while and then was trying to work on the outdoor arena gate. Someone on the ground, watching their pal ride, saw me faffing around with the gate and ran over, saying, "I can open that for you," and before I could say a word, the gate was open.
 

Ample Prosecco

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You can set up practice gates in the arena - which then also has the benefit of communicating to other liveries that you are training this so will also want time to figure out real gates when adrenaline is a bit higher.

I had the same with people offering to hold Lottie for mounting when they saw me up on the mounting block. Kind, but no thanks. I’m actually not trying to get on I’m just teaching her.

Some people don’t really see these things as trainable. The horse is either good at gates/being mounted/leading/loading or their not. So realising it takes time and effort shifts that view a bit.

Joe talked about stopping rushing with built in ‘pit stops’. Horse to pause and wait patiently when holding gate open and in middle of gate. And this is obviously safer with a practice gate till horse understands
 

magicmoments

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It's definitely about breaking it down, step by step literally. Get one step you want, relax, give wither rub, chill some more, then ask for the next step, etc. Obviously needs to be at a gate that won't swing wildly, and you need to have plenty of time, and preferably no distractions either for the first few times. My mare used to take over, but didn't take many times like this for her to get it. Now she's brill.
 

Hackback

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Joe is coming to give me a lesson in a couple of weeks. I'm both excited and nervous. In the meantime I'm trying to watch the videos on the Good Horsemanship Channel but I'm struggling with the technology. Some of the videos are really long and I just don't have that much time in my life in one block. I'd like to be able to pause and resume where I left off the previous day or whatever, but I can't work out how to do it. The video always closes and I have to start from the beginning. I've watched how to pick up front feet several times now, but I'd really like to progress to the back feet lol. Does anyone know if there's a way to pause?
 

Caol Ila

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Start wide. Make it increasingly narrow. There is nothing in between, it just gives the horse the idea of positioning alongside, moving through slowly. Waiting. Etc.

Gotcha. So just set up a pair of jump standards and play with positioning the horse around them. It would probably be good for him. He can do sidepass, turn on the forehand, etc. quite happily in the school, but gets himself into a state if you're attempting that next to a gate.
 

Ample Prosecco

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Another update. I have been breaking things down and working on very specific areas. But the eventing season is underway and I am doing Norton Disney so today I decided to do some dressage practice.

One of the (many) real 'penny drop' moments was Joe saying that if Lottie's body was braced her mind was also braced. So asking her for a change when she was braced was not very helpful. Hence having to massively increase the pressure to get through to a braced mind, leading to all those 'hard against the hand' comments on dressage test sheets.

So I have been working on getting her soft THEN asking for a change. And she will come straight back from canter to halt like that. But it does not work in dressage tests when she might brace at the wrong time! Eventually the issue should evaporate as she will get more consistent, so will stay soft and listening througout the test. In theory. But for now, wanting a change specifically at a marker is harder. Joe said I could do both. I could wait till she was soft before cueing her, when schooling, to educate her about how much nicer this can feel. But also sometimes do tests or exercises asking her at A or X or wherever and get pretty firm if she ignores me.

So today we did that and what he said about a braced mind just made perfect sense. If I asked for walk at X and she was slow, I'd bring her quite firmly to halt and then back up. And she'd do it, but the minute I softened my hand at the end of the back-up, wanting her to halt, she would immediately step forward. Even though her BODY was fully travelling backwards, her mind was still forward. She has learned to just GO FORWARD for so many years, in so many contexts, that her mind gets triggered into that 'FORWARD' groove again. I need her mind with me rather than just control her body with pressure.

I videoed the session on my PIVO and normally I wince watching videos. I felt her bracing periodically throughout the session and I don't think I ever got more than 10-15 soft steps in a row. But watching it back she looks a lot better and more consistent. It is still nowhere near good enough, because I can feel that I have her, then lose her, then have her again. But the overall picture is better. I am cautiously optimistic that our test sheets will reflect that..... But tbh I don't care if they don't. I'm all in as she is simply a different horse to ride and I'll take that over a score on a bit of paper, any day.

Super happy.
 

HufflyPuffly

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I've been following this thread with interest, Joe worked with Topaz at a demo about 8 years ago and it was fascinating to watch someone with just a completely different mind set from most instructors/ trainers I'd seen before that point.

I love it when you have those light bulb moments, we realized that Topaz braced in every transition and it had affected how well we could therefore do the harder ones. I could mask 'easier' changes by as a rider doing more, but more complicated/ harder ones showed up the gap in our training for her to be always soft and with me. It's something I've taken forward as its so much nicer to get a response on a lighter touch :).

Please keep posting your findings :).
 

SEL

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You can set up practice gates in the arena - which then also has the benefit of communicating to other liveries that you are training this so will also want time to figure out real gates when adrenaline is a bit higher.

I had the same with people offering to hold Lottie for mounting when they saw me up on the mounting block. Kind, but no thanks. I’m actually not trying to get on I’m just teaching her.

Some people don’t really see these things as trainable. The horse is either good at gates/being mounted/leading/loading or their not. So realising it takes time and effort shifts that view a bit.

Joe talked about stopping rushing with built in ‘pit stops’. Horse to pause and wait patiently when holding gate open and in middle of gate. And this is obviously safer with a practice gate till horse understands

Hmmmm - easy enough for me to set up a practice gate.

Pony has obviously been taught at somepoint to bulldoze through gates with her chest. Unfortunately most of the gates on our routes are those ones with the so-called rider friendly handles that need her to stand and wait for me to open it and then absolutely not charge through taking my kneecap off. She's generally pretty good but does have that native pony mare attitude of thinking she knows best. If humans vanished off the planet tomorrow she'd sort herself out absolutely fine, but that does mean she doesn't always think they are worth listening too. My kneecap thinks otherwise.

Your point on bracing is resonating too. She'll hate me for it but I think some time off hacking and in the school would be useful. I've probably been so conscious of her physical limitations after she hurt herself last year I've let the schooling go - and schooling isn't all about trotting in circles is it?
 

Ample Prosecco

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An instructive day. I decided to test out Lottie's new way of going at an unaff dressage comp. And discovered that her lovely relaxed canter was missing today! And back came lean and tank off canter, and head up my nostrils resistance to downward transitions. So that was a bit disheartening. But before the first canter she gave me some nice trot work. Last season our scores were generally very average throughout the tests (6 - 6.5 for most moves to end up with high 30s/low 60s) and dressage always felt tense. Today our first 3 moves were 7s. And it felt soft, relaxed and lovely. Then it all went to pot as Lottie reverted to Old Skool when we cantered, under the pressure of competing somewhere with white boards and flowers etc. She boiled over in the canter and I never really got her back after that.

It feels quite validating that the moves that felt nice to me, were also pleasing to the judges. So I do think we are on the right track. And that there is a nice, relaxed, soft test to come. I just need to figure out how to translate the work we are getting at home, to a competition environment. I have hired an hour at a venue with boards, to school. And I'll start schooling in fields too, when they dry up a bit. Plus I will keep exposing her to new environments. Any other ideas?
 

Red-1

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An instructive day. I decided to test out Lottie's new way of going at an unaff dressage comp. And discovered that her lovely relaxed canter was missing today! And back came lean and tank off canter, and head up my nostrils resistance to downward transitions. So that was a bit disheartening. But before the first canter she gave me some nice trot work. Last season our scores were generally very average throughout the tests (6 - 6.5 for most moves to end up with high 30s/low 60s) and dressage always felt tense. Today our first 3 moves were 7s. And it felt soft, relaxed and lovely. Then it all went to pot as Lottie reverted to Old Skool when we cantered, under the pressure of competing somewhere with white boards and flowers etc. She boiled over in the canter and I never really got her back after that.

It feels quite validating that the moves that felt nice to me, were also pleasing to the judges. So I do think we are on the right track. And that there is a nice, relaxed, soft test to come. I just need to figure out how to translate the work we are getting at home, to a competition environment. I have hired an hour at a venue with boards, to school. And I'll start schooling in fields too, when they dry up a bit. Plus I will keep exposing her to new environments. Any other ideas?
Yes, I would go HC in a couple of friendly local comps and dress up like you are serious. I would warn the judge that you are HC as you may do additional transitions. Then, ride it like a schooling session and transition whenever you lose what you want.

If that is not enough, I have hired the arena for straight after the last test. Warm up as the last one goes in, then go do some schooling while the buzz is still there.
 
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