Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Sone pics before it went wrong!
Joe Midgely Clinics
- Thread starter Ample Prosecco
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Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
By the the way, what does 'correct paces' mean? It is one of those phrases I see a lot but don't really understand.
tda
Well-Known Member
Agree, just go HC and then if you are not ready to canter in the test you don't have to.
Or do some walk and trot tests
Or do some walk and trot tests
RachelFerd
Well-Known Member
It means a proper 4 beat walk with no pacing, a 3 beat canter with a clear diagonal pair of legs moving (not heading towards 4 beat) and a clear trot with diagonal pairs.
For most horses the trot is already correct - but the walk and the canter sometimes aren't - and are usually indicative of tension or training problems.
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Thank-you! Is it an 'I'm trying to find something nice to say' or 'damned with faint praise' kind of comment? I am trying to get better at reading between the lines re dressage comments.
RachelFerd
Well-Known Member
I suspect so. My older TB gets it as a comment all the time - he's very unflamboyant and workmanlike, so there's not a lot to go wild for - standard comment for him is "Obedient and willing horse with three correct paces, well-presented test, needs to work more over the back for higher marks" - score yet another 66% to add to the collection - however, it does play into the paces mark, so it does have an impact on scores. I've written for judges who have had to come down quite hard on the paces scores when a horse was pacing in the walk for example.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Canter is 3 time not 4 time, trot is in equal pairs and level, walk has not gone lateral.
It's actually good, all those would be serious faults.
.
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Yeah the braced mind, not enough people think about that. Stronger aids aren't the answer, access that brain
I'm loving working with her brain. It is so interesting. Today I carried on with transitions to halt from trot, canter or after a jump. Lucinda Green's master class focuses on straightness in the halt. Joe on softness. So I tried for soft and straight. I'd get her with me and listening on a circle then go large and halt down the long side, or jump on the diagnonal and halt in a straight line after that. She got better at halting, but to start with, as soon as I released she'd set off again. So I'd correct and make her stand on a loose rein before going again. She soon started making to go forward, then catching herself as she was realising she was not supposed to do that. But she found doing NOTHING so hard. So she'd squirm, or lift a foot or shift sideways. Like a toddler reaching for sweets then snatching his hand back when he remembered he's not allowed! She was trying so hard. And it made me think that her 'forward forward' mentality is not just what she thinks she is meant to - but what she has been trained to do this so it's become automatic. I have to break a really strongly condiitoned repsonse! By the end she was stopping and .... drum rolll.... STANDING STILL. I could almost see the cogs turning!
The other big change is that working this way has just changed my emotional responses completely. I used to get so frustrated because I could not understand why she simply would not listen. But now I understand how she thinks (or rather how she fails to think and just switches to learned responses on auto-pilot) and am far more able to just keep patiently explaining what I want.
sbloom
Well-Known Member
Loving this!!
Hackback
Well-Known Member
Just reporting that I had my first lesson (groundwork with my unbacked 3 yr old) with Joe yesterday. Actually I just watched and tried to make everything go in my brain. It was fab, I really like his ethos and his calm but no nonsense approach. He had AJ buckled down and listening pretty much straight away. Poor horse was shattered afterwards 
Bits of it were pretty mind blowing too - I've seen a lot of horses backed and brought on in a traditional manner on the yard I used to be on, and they always produce lovely horses - soft mouths, supple, responsive off the leg etc - but I've never seen groundwork that prepares the horse for being light on the forehand or canter pirouettes as part of early very basic training. It's kind of turned things on their head for me a little bit.
Sadly, despite trying to write everything down after the lesson, I can't remember half of it - damn my old and useless brain. Hopefully it will come back to me as I revise from the videos on his channel. Next session Joe says I will be more involved - eek. I have a fortnight to practise.
Bits of it were pretty mind blowing too - I've seen a lot of horses backed and brought on in a traditional manner on the yard I used to be on, and they always produce lovely horses - soft mouths, supple, responsive off the leg etc - but I've never seen groundwork that prepares the horse for being light on the forehand or canter pirouettes as part of early very basic training. It's kind of turned things on their head for me a little bit.
Sadly, despite trying to write everything down after the lesson, I can't remember half of it - damn my old and useless brain. Hopefully it will come back to me as I revise from the videos on his channel. Next session Joe says I will be more involved - eek. I have a fortnight to practise.
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Great news! I have another lesson tomorrow and just can't wait. Before Project Canter every ride was a fight. But yesterday I pinged round a metre SJ track with a calm, listening Lottie. Biggest track to date and it felt easy. She is just a different horse, and the changes are totally down to Joe. I was getting nowhere in terms of increasing harmony and rideability and softeness before that, despite weekly lessons, and a pro regularly schooling her. I am so, so happy.
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
I'm saving money too as I don't get anyone else to school her anymore.
TPO
🤠🏴
There's another Joe clinic scheduled for July in Scotland and it currently has spaces.
There's also a fully booked one in April that's open to spectators (£10 per day iirc)
There's also a fully booked one in April that's open to spectators (£10 per day iirc)
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Joe's clients today....
Woman who fell off and was hurt when her horse shot forward when mounting. She needs him to stand like a rock for mounting and he's actually a real monkey. She's struggled with this for years with him. I reckon 5 minutes??
Woman who went to a green horse camp at Somerford with her stressy rising 5 year old. It was a disaster. Horse completely freaked out and nothing was achieved. Instead he probably regressed. None of the trainers had an answer for her. Apart from 'sell the horse'. So back to basics with that one I imagine.
Me!
I'm watching them all (they are all friends) and will report back.
Woman who fell off and was hurt when her horse shot forward when mounting. She needs him to stand like a rock for mounting and he's actually a real monkey. She's struggled with this for years with him. I reckon 5 minutes??
Woman who went to a green horse camp at Somerford with her stressy rising 5 year old. It was a disaster. Horse completely freaked out and nothing was achieved. Instead he probably regressed. None of the trainers had an answer for her. Apart from 'sell the horse'. So back to basics with that one I imagine.
Me!
I'm watching them all (they are all friends) and will report back.
Gloi
Too little time, too much to read.
My pony is great with gates but terrified of doing the ones which are just a rope. He's met too many electric fence gates like that and is convinced the rope is electrified.
Gloi
Too little time, too much to read.
...and why we don't do dressage at the moment when sometimes the only gait not 4 time is the walk
and rhythm gets a big underline.
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Ok he is legit a genius!
Lottie
Issue I wanted to work on was bend and flexion in canter. He suggested using a garrocha which he said had 3 purposes:
1) Helps with posture as makes her more upright through the shoulder as she is naturally looking at it and stepping away from it.
2) A test of training as circles have to be completely round to use it properly
3) Makes me ride better as I only have 1 hand. So need to adjust my shoulders, hips and legs to steer and bend.
It was really fun! Gave her something else to think about so she seemed to like it too. And then I dropped it and rode with an imaginary one. Finishing by cantering 3m circles very slowly while circling my imaginary garrocha.
Stressy, written off, rising 5 yo horse
He was amazing with this one who started off barging and dragging Joe around, then when corrected was leaping and rearing. Also super distracted and whinnying constantly. All other trainers have said 'get rid'. Within 20 minutes he was putty in Joe's hands.
Amazing again. Taught the horse to come and get the rider from any mounting block/fence etc. Rider just stood up there, raised a hand and clicked, and horse comes and lines up parallel then stands like a rock for however long you need. Including while being nudged in the ribs with the toe of a boot (as that is what happens in real life.) Owner ecstatic!
Pics of Lottie
Lottie
Issue I wanted to work on was bend and flexion in canter. He suggested using a garrocha which he said had 3 purposes:
1) Helps with posture as makes her more upright through the shoulder as she is naturally looking at it and stepping away from it.
2) A test of training as circles have to be completely round to use it properly
3) Makes me ride better as I only have 1 hand. So need to adjust my shoulders, hips and legs to steer and bend.
It was really fun! Gave her something else to think about so she seemed to like it too. And then I dropped it and rode with an imaginary one. Finishing by cantering 3m circles very slowly while circling my imaginary garrocha.
Stressy, written off, rising 5 yo horse
He was amazing with this one who started off barging and dragging Joe around, then when corrected was leaping and rearing. Also super distracted and whinnying constantly. All other trainers have said 'get rid'. Within 20 minutes he was putty in Joe's hands.
- He needs boundaries. If he drags owner about and pushes her then he won’t look to her for comfort or reassurance when he gets worried. Instead he will look for it from other horses.
- Stay emotionally neutral when putting in boundaries. And as soon as the unwanted behaviour stops, then immediately drop all pressure. Give him a stroke. You want him to start looking for the release and finding comfort within the boundaries,
- You need his attention on you when he gets distracted. So keep asking him for changes of direction, movements, so he can’t tune you out. Once he is focused on you, then he will stop whinnying or ignoring you. Test it by moving and seeing if his eyes/ears and body follow you. You want him standing quietly in his own space when you are still, but immediately responding to you when you move.
- He needs to be more relaxed. If he is tense and fighting you, he won’t learn. Look for the muscle underside of his neck. You want it floppy and soft.
- Don’t get on him till he is relaxed and ‘with you’ on the ground.
- Specific exercises:
- - Walk a circle around you. Hind end over, front end across to change direction. Movements to be un-rushed.
- - Lateral flexions each side
- - Vertical flexions
- - Follow when you lead him, stop when you stop, staying on a loose lead rein.
Amazing again. Taught the horse to come and get the rider from any mounting block/fence etc. Rider just stood up there, raised a hand and clicked, and horse comes and lines up parallel then stands like a rock for however long you need. Including while being nudged in the ribs with the toe of a boot (as that is what happens in real life.) Owner ecstatic!
Pics of Lottie
dixie
Well-Known Member
I was wondering what a Garrocha was so thanks for the photos !
Sounds like an amazing day.
Does he come down to Devon I wonder- he sounds very interesting and it’s so great hearing your journey with him.
Sounds like an amazing day.
Does he come down to Devon I wonder- he sounds very interesting and it’s so great hearing your journey with him.
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
He travels all over, so message and ask.
tda
Well-Known Member
I would like my pony to sidle up to the mounting block, she's generally ok but can occasionallyswing her bum out.
Loving your reports
Loving your reports
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Joe day 2:
Umbrella practice was drama free! The horse in the field was more freaked out than Lottie.
Then the garrocha again.... 2nd time she has ever seen once of these and she cantered round it!
Umbrella practice was drama free! The horse in the field was more freaked out than Lottie.
Then the garrocha again.... 2nd time she has ever seen once of these and she cantered round it!
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Also he has agreed to do a one day clinic in Buxton Derbyshire. So those of you who can't make it it to Scotland - there is another opportunity to ride or spectate. If all us locals don't reserve every place first!
GinaGeo
Well-Known Member
I’d be very interested in a place when they’re available
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
I never got a reply from him when I enquired (2/3 months ago) 
Glad he is working for you though.
Glad he is working for you though.
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
I never got a reply from him when I enquired (2/3 months ago)
Glad he is working for you though.
I didn’t get a reply about clinics either first time I asked. But I’m a pain the ar£e/persistent (delete as appropriate).
Sam_J
Well-Known Member
I'd be interested in spectating at the Buxton clinic. Can you please let me have details?
magicmoments
Well-Known Member
Me too
Hackback
Well-Known Member
Sorry I meant to reply before. He did say to me to pester him if I ever didn't get a reply as they gets lots of messages and sometimes miss them.I never got a reply from him when I enquired (2/3 months ago)
Glad he is working for you though.
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Buxton Clinic is 27th May x