Jumping at three???

[Sleipnir]

Just wanted to add that my 15yo who was (not by me) started as a 3yo, was not a good example of starting, as he was made to do lots of tight circles and sudden turns, and his keeping was also subpar, as he was kept in a standing box - could not turn around or lay down during the night. So, the way we keep and train our youngsters definitely matters, and I believe that a lightly and correctly started youngster can show good results and longevity.

 

[shortstuff99]

As I mentioned before, bad riding/training at any age ruins horses, good riding/training at any age makes good horses. Talented horses are even easier as it is not a physical exertion for them to do it and you may only need to do it once. For example my mare did a clean flying change from the first time of asking, so now I spend less time/energy training it as others might. She also has a natural talent for piaffe and I introduced that (in hand) at about 6. At 12 she now piaffes better then most GP horses and I've had to spend less effort doing it.

 

[Whoopit]

The most unsound horses I have met, that have not stood up to any real work at all, haven't been backed until they were five.

I'm not saying that it's because they were backed late, but I am saying that leaving them until they are five certainly doesn't guarantee a long and sound life. In my experience those that have been left are a bit soft, their bones, joints and tendons haven't adapted to working, because they've never needed to.

I've just had a nosey at the Peter Fredricson project with interest and it certainly does make an awful lot of sense.

I do a little ride and lead with my own young horses relatively early. It's not really work to them, just a bit of an adventure into the big wide world with their mate, but it's all straight lines and it starts conditioning their bodies to move over different terrain and to balance themselves without any weight on their backs. If I had 70 hectares for them to run over I probably wouldn't feel the need!

As an aside I've never really understood why we put so much merit into a fittening programme for our horses coming back after a holiday, but the youngsters who have never had the muscle to do the job, trot around in circles on the lunge and are ridden away pretty quickly - no thought given to strengthening their bones, soft tissue and muscles for the job. Surely how we back them is very important too. I'd take a three year old that had been bumbling about in straight lines, and doing a little suppling and gymnastic work with a lightweight rider before I'd take on a just backed five year old that hadn't left the arena.

i think I’m in the same camp as you. Whilst I’m not a fan of racehorse being run so hard so young, I don’t have a massive problem with 2.5yrs upward being bimbled about on and I mean to the end of the drive and back but certainly no issue with ride and lead scenarios which I’ve done with a few 2yr old flopped racehorses - led about from a mare and the hopped back on as a 3yr old.

 

[Whoopit]

My ex yard owner hunted her girl at three years old. Pony then lost balance and slipped into a river, and had to have a full on rescue. I wonder if she's ever recovered? So no, three years old is asking for trouble. Shy didn't fully mature until he was nine, I started jumping him at 5/6.

Any horse can lose balance and slip. My horse was 8 when he lost his balance and crashed into a jump - first time he’d ever done it.

 

[Whoopit]

I remember watching a stallion parade in 2019 that had 2016 foaled stallions - most were 2.5yo! Most were ridden in advanced outlines and producing extended and collected movements. It happens more than you think!

i can only assume these 2.5 yr olds must have been 3 under the “all horses have their birthdays on 01-January” guise that’s been about forever and a day?

 

[shamrock2021]

In Ireland horse are jumping when they are broken they would be jumping 50cm or higher. A lot of them free jumped at 2 years old . I have seen just turned 3 years old hunting and jumping massive . I have never seen horses with joints issues that where jumped at 3 and most of them where still been ridden into there late 20s . I do think there is fine line to leaving them to late it makes it harder for the horse to learn.it kinda like humans children pick things up easier because the brain is still developing.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Nope. I don’t even believe you should be riding them at three never mind jumping them. My boy will only be getting leant over and a sit up this time next year, not ridden, hacked, schooled or jumped. He’s 3 in April but rising as per the 1/01 rule. To me he’s still 2 right now. People just ignore the science to serve themselves I think.

He will be getting hacked his first year and taught the basics and taken to shows in hand then maybe ridden round before we go home. Seeing 4yr olds being out into a contact and jumping 1m fences makes me sad and a little sick.

 

[maya2008]

I've said this before but I talked to 2 very well regarded / recommended breakers about my youngster this year. They said if he's for me and I want him to last, not to even sit on him until he's five.
He's a 15 hh mutt type that looks well grown, strong and balanced - not a twiggy warmblood or TB type.
I was calling to see if I could book him in to be broken and hence pay them a tonne of cash. Both said no thanks - no alternative motive I can think of.

Mine that I had almost all their lives - all backed at 3.5...none have had musculoskeletal issues from being backed at 3.5 years old. I do very little until they are 4 though, then mostly hack for a year to build strength and balance. Equally, they don’t carry much weight until they are six.

- one died from a rare immune disorder aged 19.

- one got laminitis (in winter, from hay of all things) which caused pedal bone rotation, and eventually retirement.

- one is still going as a ridden pony well into her teens despite PSSM (she jumped at 4 - incredibly talented, would jump field fences, loose school over fences just because they were in the school where you’d turned her out for a leg stretch, easily cleared 1m plus for fun or with a child passenger. Couldn’t stop her jumping short of keeping her in a stable). Only been lame once due to a field accident. Currently she is having lots of fun being my daughter’s pony (her choice!) and is sneakily teaching her to love going fast (and to jump, of course!). After surgery for the field accident, she repeatedly jumped out of her pen (1m20 fencing) from a standstill...
- Current youngsters are heavier built and less athletic. We have jumped enough that they know what to do about a log on the path, that’s it. They will both be six next spring/summer. I might get the lighter built one jumping this year, she seemed to enjoy it. The gelding isn’t fussed though - he loves schooling so will probably do dressage.

 

[Megan V1]

My pony was jumped as a three year old, nothing huge but small local competitions and foxhunters. I inherited her as a 12 year old when her rider had outgrown her and she developed major joint issues at about 15 and was completely retired at 18 as she was so uncomfortable. Had to have her PTS at about 23 as it wasn't fair to keep her going in so much pain. I still have her daughter who wasn't backed until she was 5 and has never been jumped. She is now 27 and has no joint issues at all. Could just be a coincidence but I don't think so.

 

[awelshandawarmblood]

My youngster is off for backing the start of next year - he was 3 in June this year so won't be far off 4. He'll be lightly hacked probably only twice a week (no school work) through summer/autumn then turned away until rising 5 the following spring. At 5 I plan on a little schooling & grids but we wont leave the floor until he's at least 6 I'd imagine & that will be dependent on how he's going.

 

[ycbm]

People just ignore the science to serve themselves I think.

The problem is that we don't have any.

Yes we have the science of how late the growth plates close. But as far as I know the only science we have about working at an early age is that in young thoroughbreds it creates stronger bones.

There's no scientific evidence at all that I can find as to effect of work on the longevity of a horse's ridden career. All we have is anecdote of very small numbers. And some unsupported but increasingly strong assertions that horses shouldn't be being ridden until they are older because their growth plates aren't closed.

It's my own, anecdotal, opinion that over breeding to get movement, and indiscriminate breeding ( mass breeding of straight hocked cobs and breeding from mares that didn't stand work themselves, for examples) is of far greater impact on long term soundness than what age they were sat on.

We need the science of a long term study of hundreds of horses of different breeds. It's on my list to fund when I win the lottery.

 

[Abi90]

Having previously taken as gospel that over working young horses = bad I’m Just thinking back to the comment about children playing sport. Most Olympic athletes will have been training hard as children (not just at play) before their own growth plates had closed. How many athletes suffer from conditions just related to wear and tear? Not specific injuries?

I did a lot of sport as a kid and did county level long jump as a 9 year old, so high impact stuff. The only niggles I have are from specific (normally horse riding related) injuries.

We also don’t flinch at kids climbing over and jumping on and off play parks/trees etc.

It’s an interesting conversation. I look forward to seeing the results of your study when you win the lottery YCBM!

 

[shortstuff99]

Having previously taken as gospel that over working young horses = bad I’m Just thinking back to the comment about children playing sport. Most Olympic athletes will have been training hard as children (not just at play) before their own growth plates had closed. How many athletes suffer from conditions just related to wear and tear? Not specific injuries?

I did a lot of sport as a kid and did county level long jump as a 9 year old, so high impact stuff. The only niggles I have are from specific (normally horse riding related) injuries.

We also don’t flinch at kids climbing over and jumping on and off play parks/trees etc.

It’s an interesting conversation. I look forward to seeing the results of your study when you win the lottery YCBM!

The gymnasts do, which is why their career tends to be so short. A caveat on that though is a lot of them have hypermobility which leads to worsening injuries (which could be said for how some of the dressage breeding is going)!

 

[Suechoccy]

Is there a correlation between number of cases of Kissing Spine and backing horses before the age of 4? (Just looking at that diagram which shows spine under saddle is last area to finish growing).

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I am suffering the reality of a lot of sport at a young age. I am in my 30s and suffer joint problems. My brothers don’t and my parents in their 50/60s have age related only and were active, my dad rode and trained racers, so not genetic. So yes sport at a young age hurts your body. I know many people in a similar situation as myself all wash out from sport programmes through body breakages. My physio agrees and she treats whole sport teams.

I honestly do not believe that riding jumping and competing horses before they are old enough to have their growth plates close is the same as letting children run and play and compete. Strap an extra 20/25kgs on them and let them compete then give check for issues. We don’t ask horses to do what they would naturally do, we are asking them to jump consistently, train consistently which they wouldn’t normally do. Children running, climbing, playing even competing with their peers carrying their own body weight is not the same. There isn’t a comparison.

We do not do it for the horses benefit, we do it for our own. The horse doesn’t car if he carries a rider at any age. Before anyone goes all ‘NH lover’ don’t waste your time as I am not, however the principle of letting them be horses I believe is more productive to having a well balanced horse, not a sport machine.