Justification

[celt]

Accepting that there could well be a need to keep certain animals and birds in check including foxes, rabbits, rats, mice, moles, pigeons, crows, magpies, jays, etc, etc, what are you’re views on the totally unnecessary shooting of reared birds such as pheasants and partridges. You could well argue that the culling of certain species is indeed necessary however what justification is there for farming birds purely for the purpose of providing live targets for hunters?

 

[collie]

Obviously you are not keen on this type of sport and probabley anything any one says will not change your opinion. All i would ask you to consider is that i have been brought up in rural Scotland surrounded by this industry and it does employ a lot of people. Thr rural economy is fragile enough and there are many local native people being forced away due to lack of employment, so i am entirely at ease with this issue as it helps keep local people and their customs alive.

 

[celt]

You say that this so called sport “employs a lot of people”, can you please elaborate on that and once again give you’re justification for the shooting of live targets.

 

[Hercules]

Celt,

Your ignorane is incredible. The countryside that you see today and the wildlife within it is due in large part to the conservation that shoot managers and gamekeepers conduct.

The reared pheasants live a much longer and free life than any poultry that you will see on the shelves at Tesco. If there was no shooting, the pheasant and partridge would disappear from the countryside.

Game shooting is worth hundreds of millions of pounds to the econpomy in rural areas which thie revolting government has chosen to ignore.

I would place a large wager that you have never been to or experienced a shoot. You are not really interested in reality are you? Only what you have read in LACS propoganda.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

An independant study estimated that £250 Million worth of conservation measurtes are performed because of the shooting industry.

It's more welfare and environmentally friendly than chicken farming.

Country sports are the second most important land based source of income after farming.

It's a vital part of rural culture enjoyed equally by people from the town and countryside.

 

[GinaB]

I echo Hercules. I'm actually stopping buying store chickens etc due to the horrible ways they are brought up and subsequently killed.
In fact my uncle is taking me clay pigeon next week and once I get the hang of that I'm going to start shooting when the season starts again. I would much rather do this and know the animals have been well cared for and that plenty is being done for the conservation of the countryside.

 

[matthew]

No problem with shooting game to eat!

 

[Jay89]

Surely its no different then buying beef, chicken, lamb, pork in a supermarket all these animals are bred to be eaten an often have a horrid life. Where as pheasents are also bred to be eaten but have a far better life and are being shot for the table.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

What they don't like is the fact that people have fun when they go out shooting. The objection has got nothing to do with animal welfare at all.

 

[moocow]

I don't eat any intensively rared meat - spent too much time working in agri research to ever want to touch the stuff but i know nothing about the way pheasants are rared before release. I always presumed it wasn't that intensively farmed. Is that the case? If I was a pheasant i would rather take my chances with release and then a shoot than the life that intensively rared chickens go through. (although I think that maybe a bit complex for a pheasant - beautiful bird but really they make chickens look like einstein!

Celt, do you eat meat?

 

[Ereiam_jh]

From what I understand the chicks are intensively reared but sold to shoots at a young age. But 'Organic' chicken also comes from intensively reared chicks.

 

[moocow]

How long are they released before the shoot?

Celt where do you stand on fishing? We trick them with a fake fly that has a hidden barb that they pierce their mouths on and then, once caught we bludgen them to death.....

 

[Ereiam_jh]

"How long are they released before the shoot?"

I only have limited experience but the shoot I go on rears them in outdoor pends and they are released a long time before the shoot.

You tend to find that LACS etc will highlight worst possible practice.

 

[moocow]

Thanks ereiam_jh. Its nice to know these things. I presume it varies slightly from shoot to shoot as with everything, everyone has their own way of doing things!

 

[severnmiles]

Now Ereiam_jh, how did you get the wolf to do that? I take it what is missing from the pic is Bendy Endy running for his life or maybe backed up in a corner against a big rock :shocked:.... :grin:

Whats wrong with shooting game then? They were bred to be shot, they wouldn't be alive if it wasn't for the shooting industry, aslong as the game keeper is decent at pest control and the local drivers and all townie muppets in their BMW's then the birds have a lovely life no matter how short. Most end up on the table whether they are sold to local pubs or given away.

Let me turn this around.....

How can you justify banning the shooting industry?

 

[severnmiles]

From what I understand the chicks are intensively reared but sold to shoots at a young age. But 'Organic' chicken also comes from intensively reared chicks.

I depends on the shoot, some hatch their own.

 

[celt]

There can be absolutely no justification for the shooting of live targets and calling it sport, what is sporting in shooting a living creature that has been purposely reared to provide someone with a live target.
To answer some of the questions asked I can tell you that I have actually attended a few shoot days and witnessed first hand what goes on, I have witnessed the countless wounded birds that remain uncollected at the end of the day, those birds endure great suffering and a prolonged and agonising death in the name of sport.
At the end of the day the keeper has great difficulty in getting rid of the game as most of the guns simply refused their complimentary brace. The game dealers aren’t that bothered with the remaining game as they can get lead free game from the intensively farmed stock that was not sold to the shoots so a lot of the shot game simply rots away.
I have been on a feed ride on the days following a shoot and witnessed first hand a number of near crippled birds that are obviously carrying shot, to see these lame birds some of which are carrying a wing is a sad sight indeed.
More and more of the game farmers are adopting the continental method of rearing where 5 – 7 hens and a single cock are placed in a steel mesh cage measuring 4 feet by 3 feet by 2 feet high, even one of you’re representing organisations namely B.A.S.C. have condemned this method of rearing

To say that game shooting ensures a wealth of natural habitat for other wildlife is a myth, the vast majority of our countryside is not shot over and this land enjoys a wealth of NATURAL wildlife that is not governed by whether the creatures are a threat to the game birds on the land.
A game shoot works on a return of between 35% - 40% birds/season, a great deal of the birds fall prey to predation so it is a vicious circle where the keeper introduces the prey on to the ground which obviously encourages the so called vermin which you cull.

 

[buckybee]

I don't know a lot about shooting, and I'm not really keen on it because I don't like most of the guys i know who do it and they seem to interfere with our hunting LOTS!

However, I see lots of happy, and TBH pretty tame birds around where i live and if i was an animal that was going to be eaten, or farmed, I'd rather be pheasant than a chicken, lamb, milk cow etc.

I know my reply may seem a bit nieve, but i think of an animals quality of life, and i really believe animals that are hunted/shot have this over farmed anaimals.

Soo.. unless you are vegan, IMO you are as bad as us hunters and shooters! x

 

[celt]

I am a meat eater and have no problem with it, I support my local butcher who farms the animals sold in his shop, I also support a farmer who is a good friend of mine who farms organic meat and sells his produce on the internet.
The only form of game shooting that I would possibly support would be grouse shooting, grouse can not be artificially reared so the keeper needs to ensure a suitable habitat for the bird. I am involved with a group of people who are improving the habitat for black game. This is done without the need for pest control and there is certainly no shooting on the ground. This is a success story where we now provide guided tours to watch the cocks on the lecks.

 

[buckybee]

mmm, i keep having this problem, I'm thinking it's me who doesn't understand the word 'Organic'. I though that meant not using pesticides?? nothing to do with welfare of animals??

Your farmer might be a good guy, but have you never got a piece of meat from your local super market? What do you have when you go out for a meal?? Do the people who buy from your local super market p you off as much people who shoot pheasants do because the meat they buy may not be organic??

 

[celt]

The only addendum to my last post would be regarding grouse shooting would be that it is a sad fact that hen harriers are an endangered species on grouse moors, I wonder why.

 

[buckybee]

not really replying to my questions there bud, and anyway, I thought the question was about Pheasants not Grouse? x

 

[endymion]

I have noticed a lot of people who have replied to your post in favour of shooting are the very same people who at times have stressed how cruel shooting is (through wounding) as their main reason for hunting with hounds. So shooting foxes is cruel but shooting game birds isn't apparently! :crazy:

 

[celt]

Hi byckybee,

Yes I did purchase some of my meat from the supermarket but I felt that they were responsible for killing off our local and urban shops and for the past 18 months I have made a point of supporting local people by purchasing most of my goods from local shops including meat and veg, can you say the same?
I can only attest to the methods adopted by my friend and I can assure you that his animals are well cared for, I know because I visit him regularly.
As far as eating out then simply I had no control over the quality of the meat, however I now frequent three restaurants all of which serve organic meat.
As far as the people who purchase their meat from the supermarket is concerned I can’t really comment, there is no doubt that people care more for the price of the produce as opposed to any other factor and in this day of ever increasing inflation then possibly the cost will far outweigh any ethical issues.

 

[buckybee]

you may be refering to me there, and if not then i do think that, however;

1 - I'm sure you will agree that birds cannot be killed with hounds!

2 - As i have said previously, at least birds who are shot have some freedom, and farm birds do not!

x

 

[celt]

I have noticed a lot of people who have replied to your post in favour of shooting are the very same people who at times have stressed how cruel shooting is (through wounding) as their main reason for hunting with hounds. So shooting foxes is cruel but shooting game birds isn't apparently! :crazy:

That is indeed a very good point and as I stated in one of my earlier posts I have actually witnessed the aftermath of a shoot day and its not a pretty sight.

 

[buckybee]

"Justification" - I want of the death of your "organic meat" Maybe it was electricuted?? Had it's neck slit?? organic does not meen that they were let to die in there sleep you know! There is an element in cruelty in every animals death. dying is painful what ever way you go!!

I would personally rather have a chance of getting away. I saw a program on E4 - "The F Word" Gorden Ramseys free range organic turkey's didn't look too happy with an electric rod in their mouths!!!!!

 

[celt]

Hi Byckybee,

Farmed birds have limited freedom, as well you know, from the day that the egg is laid then they are handled countless times. They are manually removed from the incubators; they are de beaked (bloody cruel act in itself)or brailed to prevent the cannibalistic tendency of feather pecking (this is due to the intensive rearing of a creature that in the wild survive in small family groups). The poults are then wing clipped to prevent them from leaving the release pens too early. The wild nature of the bird has long since been bred out of these birds and all that you are producing is a semi domestic bird with a trust for humans (lets face it he/she has been artificially fed for the past few months).
You’re reference to the comparison of farmed birds to domestic fowl I assume is made on the grounds of cruelty, if that is the case then what do you say about the countless birds that are shot and not recovered by the pickers up for whatever reason, these birds endure a long and lingering death.

 

[celt]

Hi buckybee,

The only difference being that an animal taken to the slaughterhouse is guaranteed a fast and humane death unlike a game bird which has the luck of the draw as to whether he flies over a good shot or a wanabee country sportsperson who has the faintest idea of country pursuits and what is involved.

 

[buckybee]

Hi Celt,

Yes, you do make a good point and there will be birds that have a bit of a s**t death, which is a shame. I still stick by my quality if life thing though, I'd rather risk it.

I'm going with Mel " FREEEDOOOOMMM!!!!!" hehe!

xx