Kate & Wills attending Rodeo...

Jennyharvey

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Have you not noticed all the other videos by that youtube user? They are all propaganda!

Yes some of that is animal abuse but if you read the whole thread you'll realise that most people say the good rodeos are fab but there are some awful ones which ruin it for the good ones.

Yes i am aware that the vids are by the one man, as i feel hes the only one that gives a ****. It really is beyond belief that people can see this as a sport, and that this cruelty is justifiable. It really sickens me to be called human. Next we will have people saying pull fighting isnt cruel.

Hes another for ya.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hlhuo07490o&feature=relmfu

And another. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhyofMr44TU&feature=relmfu

I know that most people will see this as a minority, and perhaps it is, but surely the treatment of these individual animals should matter to someone? And not treated like a pawn in a big game of chess, where some are lucky to be ok, some are not.
 
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Kokopelli

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Yes he is showing videos of the bad stuff ie the stuff that helps his case that all rodeos are cruel for profit as well! This is propaganda, you are not seeing the whole picture.

You seem very misinformed not all rodeos are like this.
 

abaddon_1974

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If we have the blinkered view that we should ban rodeos because a minority are bad then we should ban all horse sports including happy hackers and people who keep horses as companion animals because there are a minority who abuse horses across the board.
Not sure where this would leave the forum though.

Craig
 

Jennyharvey

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I know they are not all like this. Ive been to rodeos and nothing got injured. But i still dont see how this is justifiable.

also, for the people who say horses buck because they want to, why on earth do they need to zap them with electricity to get them to move. This video shows it being done quite clearly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEq6gjE8JFo&feature=related

I know im not gonna change people vies on it, as with horse racing, people find it justifiable. But maybe we can find a common ground with the wild horse race. Perhaops the cruelest game at a rodeo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N36fezTOsCA&feature=relmfu
 
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Kokopelli

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Another bad example!

So your saying all rodeos should be banned but some are good but still all rodeos should be banned?

That's ridiculous shall we also ban driving? Cause you get bad drivers as well.
Perhaps any form of pet ownership as you also get some very bad pet owners?

You have a very blinkered view, perhaps you should argue that there should be more regulations and policing of rodeos so some of the bad ones either begin to become more humane or get shut down but the good rodeos are able to carry on as they are?
 

Jennyharvey

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Another bad example!

So your saying all rodeos should be banned but some are good but still all rodeos should be banned?

That's ridiculous shall we also ban driving? Cause you get bad drivers as well.
Perhaps any form of pet ownership as you also get some very bad pet owners?

You have a very blinkered view, perhaps you should argue that there should be more regulations and policing of rodeos so some of the bad ones either begin to become more humane or get shut down but the good rodeos are able to carry on as they are?

Are you saying that the wild horse race and calf roping are ok? Imagine running hell for leather and being halted abruptly by your neck. Do u feel this would hurt?

Or what about being a frightened horse being manhandled by lots of men, landing on your back, your neck, your head. Would this hurt?

The reason i bring these examples up is because in these two aspects, this is what happens at ANY rodeo, its how its done. You cant rope a calf without pulling on its neck. If you feel that this is acceptable, then i rest my case.
 

Kokopelli

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Yes so in all rodeos people throw mud in the horses face? I think not.

They don't feel the same as us, a horse or calf for that matter has more muscles in their necks than we do in pretty much our entire body, they don't feel that the way in which you would.

As I keep saying these horses at the good rodeos aren't frightened or no more frightened than a normal horse at a competition. It's their job they know what they're doing. As for men landing on head and neck I don't think that is even a part of the rodeo. If this happens by accident then yes that isn't nice for a horse but they are at no more risk than an eventer falling on a horses head or neck or a show jumper.
 

shortstuff99

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I agree with Kokopelli, we shouldn't ban ALL rodeos because of a few bad examples. Wouldn't it be a better use of our time if we work harder to regulate the sport and make sure the bad/cruel rodeos are stopped? Therefore it can be safe for the horses and for the spectators? Also this is often peoples livelihoods, if there was no rodeo they would have no job!

And if we were going to be natural for the horse then we shouldn't ride or have any interaction with horses as none of that is natural! lol

I agree that horses can be intelligent but they are NOT humans, it is scientific knowledge that they don't feel/react the same as humans. They have no real concept of consequences or of rationality. Doesn't mean that they don't feel pain its just not on the human level.
 

CorvusCorax

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Well how would we all like it having bits of metal stuck in our mouths and people riding around on our backs? Being ridden on the road? Kept in a field with a fence around it or in a wooden or breezeblock box?

You're comparing apples with oranges Jennyharvey, if we want to play the 'how would you like it' game, none of us would probably want to own animals at all (which is what PETA wants, no ownership of animals, if anybody supports their views, they might as well just get shot of their pets now), I am sure all our dogs and cats and horses would rather be out there running free and acting completely naturally but the vast, vast, vast majority of us manipulate animals to suit our likes and needs and wants and we seek out animals that will adapt to our lifestyles, they ALL serve a purpose, even if that is as a companion or making us feel good by looking at them standing out in a field.
 

Spring Feather

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Wouldn't it be a better use of our time if we work harder to regulate the sport and make sure the bad/cruel rodeos are stopped?
Many rodeos are regulated. It is the general public who need to be educated on which rodeos to attend and which ones should not get their money. Safest way is to only go to pro-rodeos and not the backstreet ones.

Also this is often peoples livelihoods, if there was no rodeo they would have no job!
Most of the participants in rodeos do own or work on large ranches. What they do at the rodeo is everyday stuff that they do on their vast ranches. Certainly though, if they are successful at rodeos then the winnings will subsidise and boost their income.
 

shortstuff99

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Many rodeos are regulated. It is the general public who need to be educated on which rodeos to attend and which ones should not get their money. Safest way is to only go to pro-rodeos and not the backstreet ones.

My mistake! I thought they were saying that no rodeos were monitered so we should stop them all! I agree with you.

Most of the participants in rodeos do own or work on large ranches. What they do at the rodeo is everyday stuff that they do on their vast ranches. Certainly though, if they are successful at rodeos then the winnings will subsidise and boost their income.

I was meaning this, if we stopped rodeo activity due to cruelty wouldn't they then stop them doing it on ranches and then ruin peoples livelihood?
 

Spring Feather

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Pro-rodeos won't be stopped :) They will continue and I think they will become even more prevalent once the backstreet rodeos lose the punters (and competitors) interest.
 

Enfys

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Enfys, I don't really like to see abuse anywhere, and just because it happens at other venues, doesn't mean that it cannot be mentioned in rodeo.

Of course not, mention away all you like, there is very well documented abuse - the 'wild' horse races, the downhill races I'll not deny that, never did, but to say that all rodeos are abusive full stop, is like saying that all racing stables abuse their horses, or all children beat their horses etc, etc

Christ, people went hairless on this forum over Catwalk, yet animals maimed and killed in the name of entertainment and sport no problem.

Now that really is a load of twaddle.

Members of this Forum rage about cruelty in every sphere of equestrianism, and outside it, no-one condones outright abuse. Rodeos, the pro circuit ones, are not abusive, - it is too public an event to be so, anymore than using electric spurs or believing the rumours about the techniques of very well known show jumpers in the privacy of their indoor arenas at home. I think the phrase I want in response to your comment is "Guilty until found innocent"


And I still don't care if William and Kate go to the Stampede or not, it won't make me think anything more, or less, of them. Hope they enjoy it.
 
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babymare

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here here enfy - all went up in arms of 2 horses dying at national - please sad tragic - but think there are horses dying from lack of food water care and not in a third world country but here in this country of animal lovers. I hate abuse but before we jump up and down about kate and wills loook to the welsh mountains look to bodmin moors look to ireland and look close to home . again i say in hh over last few months a fillly dragged and left with broken back legs a baby dragged and left to die under a tarpulin - ok im not lover( but never been ) of rodeos but you want abuse go to local shows and watch - by heck you see it - drag of mouth the whip the battering the shouting - lets clean up here is what i say but hey ho only my opioion :)
 

stroppymare153

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......No spurs, no whips, no hauling, just riders and horses having a blast and loving it......


spent a large part of a holiday in Houston at the rodeo - absolutely fantastic!! Could watch the cutting horses all day, every day - like big cats waiting to pounce on any cow that dared step out of line! And the riding!! yeah, huge scary shanks on the bits - but totally loose reins! Didn't see a single thing that made me uncomfortable. :D
 

babymare

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me and daughter went to watch monty roberts - i was awed by his riding - like you say stroppy no reins needed - infact he took bridle off. ok some parts of rodeo i dont think i would like but never been but hell (like american term there) a lot of riding in this country i dont like either so who am i to pass judgement :)
 

Foxhunter49

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I was meaning this, if we stopped rodeo activity due to cruelty wouldn't they then stop them doing it on ranches and then ruin peoples livelihood?

Life on a ranch is far tougher than most people in this country, even if they are farming, realise.

I was taken out to bring in something like 500 head of cattle down from the Rockies in Idaho. When in the corals I witnessed the cowhands catching large steers by jumping on them and turning them over. It was part of everyday work for them.

I also saw fields where bucking bulls were being grown, they were all together (no cows anywhere near) and their breeding was known as well as any racehorse breeder knows his animals lines.

It is tough on the animals and they are hard on them but not cruel. It is just different to how we treat our animals.

To compare rodeo with bull fighting is wrong. They are nothing like the same the bull in the arena is going to die slowly after being antagonised for however long. The rodeo animals are not tortured.

America does have bull fighting but it is the rodeo clowns against a bull, no defence for the clowns only their quick reactions.
 

Enfys

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America does have bull fighting but it is the rodeo clowns against a bull, no defence for the clowns only their quick reactions.

DSCF6375.jpg

DSCF6370.jpg


... and the clowns:

DSCF6426.jpg


DSCF6409.jpg


Not called Clowns for nothing!

DSCF6365.jpg
 
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AndySpooner

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To be frank whether or not William and Kate attend a rodeo is irrelavant to the issue of animal abuses which occur at such venues as these.

Personally I agree with the Pale Rider in that calf ropeing does seem an extreme way of treating very young, baby animals, just for competition. To see crippled calves dragged out of the arena on a sled should be enough for anyone to say, 'no that is wrong'. For the commentator to mock, 'these calves will do anything for a ride on the sled,' compounds the ignorance of the audience to some extent, as in the footage I have seen.

The question of bucking horses appears to me to fall into two distinct areas, one where the horses are trained to buck hard and have what appears to be a natural tallent for it, and others which have to be hurt to make them buck to the required degree. This latter way of producing a bucking horse, like calf ropeing, has to be wrong, by any standard and cannot seriously be defended by anyone who has the least interest in or supposed care for animals.

I don't think that Rodeo's need to be banned, but a serious clean up of their act is definately required and perhaps the removal of some of the events, which are quite clearly beyond what is reasonable by todays standards in the modern world.
 

fburton

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You're comparing apples with oranges Jennyharvey, if we want to play the 'how would you like it' game, none of us would probably want to own animals at all
I disagree. Animals get huge benefits from being owned and looked after by humans, including (in many cases) a life in the first place!

(which is what PETA wants, no ownership of animals, if anybody supports their views, they might as well just get shot of their pets now)
PETA are extremist idiots, imo.

I am sure all our dogs and cats and horses would rather be out there running free and acting completely naturally
Given the choice, I'm not so sure they would!

but the vast, vast, vast majority of us manipulate animals to suit our likes and needs and wants and we seek out animals that will adapt to our lifestyles, they ALL serve a purpose, even if that is as a companion or making us feel good by looking at them standing out in a field.
Agreed.

I agree that horses can be intelligent but they are NOT humans, it is scientific knowledge that they don't feel/react the same as humans. They have no real concept of consequences or of rationality. Doesn't mean that they don't feel pain its just not on the human level.
So how does horses' potential pain or suffering compare with humans? Is it only a tiny fraction? Does the fact they can't easily communicate what they are feeling make it less? What does science have to say about this issue?
 

NOISYGIRL

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And how would you know if i've never seen it?!

No one is dictating what they can and cannot do just whether it's necessary for our Royals to be seen as endorsing it.

So just because a horse has a sheen on its coat and only is subjected to a few minutes of abuse now and again it's ok?

Well because they are nice and shiny means they don't feel the pain, didn't you know ? you're so silly, rolls eyes, it is SICK ! there is a reason they are bronking - erm could they possibly be in PAIN - oh no, its shiny so no defo can't feel it lol
 

shortstuff99

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So how does horses' potential pain or suffering compare with humans? Is it only a tiny fraction? Does the fact they can't easily communicate what they are feeling make it less? What does science have to say about this issue?[/QUOTE]

I am not saying that they can't feel the pain on a level with humans, they can. But I am saying that they don't think about it in the same way. I am never never condoning creulty or intentional pain in anyway but what we as a human may react from is not what a horse may feel or react from. Therefore we cannot use humans as a comparisson to what a horse is feeling. I think I may not have explained myself clearly but I was trying to say we should not anthropomorphise horses which often seems to be the cases in these kind of issues.

IMHO if the horse is well looked after and not in pain then what is the issue?
 

fburton

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I am not saying that they can't feel the pain on a level with humans, they can. But I am saying that they don't think about it in the same way. I am never never condoning creulty or intentional pain in anyway but what we as a human may react from is not what a horse may feel or react from. Therefore we cannot use humans as a comparisson to what a horse is feeling. I think I may not have explained myself clearly but I was trying to say we should not anthropomorphise horses which often seems to be the cases in these kind of issues.
People anthropomorphise horses all the time, and not just in relation to "so how would you like it if..." issues. It can be very unhelpful, I agree.

IMHO if the horse is well looked after and not in pain then what is the issue?
That certainly ticks two important welfare boxes, though it could be argued that unnecessary and deliberate inflicting of discomfort and causing fear might also constitute an "issue".
 

shortstuff99

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I suppose that is a good point and I feel that can be an issue in all horse sports, but as has been mentioned before I feel that we should work more on less publicised issues then the huge shows that probably are well run etc. I have seen so many horses at local shows beaten onto trailers over jumps etc and feel we should put more effort into regulating this.
 

fburton

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I suppose that is a good point and I feel that can be an issue in all horse sports, but as has been mentioned before I feel that we should work more on less publicised issues then the huge shows that probably are well run etc. I have seen so many horses at local shows beaten onto trailers over jumps etc and feel we should put more effort into regulating this.
Yes, I think that's the way forward. How do you feel about the idea "importing" rodeo events (the okay ones) into this country? I'm not saying it would be a roaring success because rodeo isn't everyone's cup of tea, but would it even be possible or is it a complete non-starter?
 

Honey08

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I feel the same about bullfighting - the matadores don't actually enjoy harming the bull - it's about art.


A few still put on my favourite event - the Wild Horse Race!


I thought electric prods are only allowed to be used to make horses go forward...


Where did you get that from?? However, it may actually be better for them to be immobilized rather than thrashing about with a broken back.

Hysterical! Don't ever think about going into a medical profession!

I haven't actually been to a rodeo, but go to Calgary a lot and see bits of it on the TV. They don't actually look like they admire their horses and cattle to me, they just come across as testosterone fuelled "little men".

When it comes to a lot of equestrian sports, little man syndrome kicks in and over-rides 90% of the horsemanship.

For me, rodeos are not that far from bull fighting. Backward small town idiots trying to make themselves look big.
 

Jennyharvey

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So how does horses' potential pain or suffering compare with humans? Is it only a tiny fraction? Does the fact they can't easily communicate what they are feeling make it less? What does science have to say about this issue?

I am not saying that they can't feel the pain on a level with humans, they can. But I am saying that they don't think about it in the same way. I am never never condoning creulty or intentional pain in anyway but what we as a human may react from is not what a horse may feel or react from. Therefore we cannot use humans as a comparisson to what a horse is feeling. I think I may not have explained myself clearly but I was trying to say we should not anthropomorphise horses which often seems to be the cases in these kind of issues.

IMHO if the horse is well looked after and not in pain then what is the issue?[/QUOTE]


How do you know animals dont think about pain the same way as us? If you kick a person, they will react to it. If you kick a dog, they yelp and react. If you kick a horse, they react to it. Animals cannot talk, so who the hell gives us the right to try to say how they react, and think of pain. I think people say that animals either dont feel pain the same way as us, or dont think about it the same way as us, just so we can condone animal abuse. Its complete nonsense. It really bugs me when people say this, because we are really not so different.

Next time you are at a rodeo watching a horse or bull buck, look at their eyes. Eyes do not lie.
 

MerrySherryRider

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I don't know if anyone remembers when the American Adventure Theme Park in Derbyshire first opened, they had 'Calvary' soldiers and Indians riding around the park on horseback and daily Rodeo shows. It all stopped after a year or two, although the Silver city shoot out show continued. The rodeo was great to watch.
 
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