Kate & Wills attending Rodeo...

[fburton]

How do you know animals dont think about pain the same way as us? If you kick a person, they will react to it. If you kick a dog, they yelp and react. If you kick a horse, they react to it. Animals cannot talk, so who the hell gives us the right to try to say how they react, and think of pain. I think people say that animals either dont feel pain the same way as us, or dont think about it the same way as us, just so we can condone animal abuse. Its complete nonsense. It really bugs me when people say this, because we are really not so different.

Well, animals don't think the same as us. For one thing, they can't talk - as you say. Partly for that reason, we cannot possibly know what it is like to feel pain as a horse or any other animal. However, I think we can say with a high degree of confidence that they do feel pain and that it matters very much to them. In fact, there is no reason to believe it matters any less to a horse than to a human, because we are both mammals and the biological significance of pain is the same to both of us. For that reason I believe we should be mindful of the likelihood of causing pain with certain actions and both avoid doing those things unnecessarily and be constantly vigilant for signs that we may be causing pain.

 

[Enfys]

I haven't actually been to a rodeo, but go to Calgary a lot and see bits of it on the TV. They don't actually look like they admire their horses and cattle to me, they just come across as testosterone fuelled "little men".

When it comes to a lot of equestrian sports, little man syndrome kicks in and over-rides 90% of the horsemanship.

For me, rodeos are not that far from bull fighting. Backward small town idiots trying to make themselves look big.

Splutters in disbelief.

Oh brother! What an incredibly arrogant and blinkered statement to make.

When you are in Calgary do you ever actually talk to horse/rodeo people, hop off your pedestal to get to know them?

There are people all over the globe that come under "testosterone fuelled little men" not just those connected with rodeo.

I live in one of those 'small' towns, and many of the people I know are connected with rodeo and horse training, and they are no better, or worse, than people I have met in Britain.

 

[shortstuff99]

Yes horses feel the same pain as a human and will react instantly the same way but its the thought processess afterwards that differ. I know everyone would love for horses to be as intelligent as humans but they are not. They have no concept of self, this is why you can put mirrors in a stable and they will think they are with another horse, this is what distinguishes themselves from humans.

But if you had read my post I said that we should never intentionally harm or be cruel to a horse! But actually treating an animal like a person can do just as much damage! They are happy if they have food, company and kept safe from predators, Imo I think this is all they really wish for.

A horse doesn't ever know why you have smacked it, it only knows that certain actions cause pain or are dangerous and this is why they avoid doing it not because it knows what it did.

And there has been lots of research into animal (and horse) cognition, for example and elephant is self aware.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Yes horses feel the same pain as a human and will react instantly the same way but its the thought processess afterwards that differ. I know everyone would love for horses to be as intelligent as humans but they are not. They have no concept of self, this is why you can put mirrors in a stable and they will think they are with another horse, this is what distinguishes themselves from humans.

But if you had read my post I said that we should never intentionally harm or be cruel to a horse! But actually treating an animal like a person can do just as much damage! They are happy if they have food, company and kept safe from predators, Imo I think this is all they really wish for.

A horse doesn't ever know why you have smacked it, it only knows that certain actions cause pain or are dangerous and this is why they avoid doing it not because it knows what it did.

And there has been lots of research into animal (and horse) cognition, for example and elephant is self aware.

Crikey, I think I disagree with just about every statement in your post, apart from never intentionally doing them harm and not treating horses like people. I agree with you there.
Horses require more than just food, company and a safe environment if their life is to have quality. I also question your view that they are not as intelligent. They are just not intelligent at being human.

 

[Enfys]

Crikey, I think I disagree with just about every statement in your post, apart from never intentionally doing them harm and not treating horses like people. I agree with you there.
Horses require more than just food, company and a safe environment if their life is to have quality. I also question your view that they are not as intelligent. They are just not intelligent at being human.

I can't agree with some of this .

So, a wild horse, being a horse and having the freedom to roam where, and as, it will, doing what it, as a species has evolved over hundreds of thousands of years to do, has no quality of life then? A much loved retiree in a pasture has no quality of life? Could you clarify your perception of quality of life please?

Haven't we had this conversation before? I have a distinct feeling of deja vu.

 

[ColandMe]

I found the youtube footage very disturbing. Causing deliberate pain and suffering in the name of entertainment is just wrong, and enjoying doing it is sick. If people say it's just propoganda then fine, but it happened, and if that's given me a blinkered view of rodeo I can live with that. The way those beasts were treated was horrible, and it did give the impression of testosterone fuelled 'men' getting their jollies by bullying animals.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

I can't agree with some of this .

So, a wild horse, being a horse and having the freedom to roam where, and as, it will, doing what it, as a species has evolved over hundreds of thousands of years to do, has no quality of life then? A much loved retiree in a pasture has no quality of life? Could you clarify your perception of quality of life please?

Haven't we had this conversation before? I have a distinct feeling of deja vu.

Of course they do. But stick a group of horses in a barn. Feed them and keep them safe. Their needs are met, but is that enough ?

Do they not yearn to roam, eat grass, feel the rain, roll in the dust, fill their lungs with fresh air ? Do they not yearn to run together bucking and twisting for the sheer pleasure of being horses ?
Once basic needs are met; food and safety, are you saying that is all a horse desires ?

 

[perfect11s]

Have a look at the WES site they do Rodeo type stuff.

Um wrong you mean look at the WHA site !!!!they do barrels and cattle classes
and the speed events
WES only Do the serious show classes like horsemanship, pleasure,trail, and reining...

 

[perfect11s]

Hysterical! Don't ever think about going into a medical profession!

I haven't actually been to a rodeo, but go to Calgary a lot and see bits of it on the TV. They don't actually look like they admire their horses and cattle to me, they just come across as testosterone fuelled "little men".

When it comes to a lot of equestrian sports, little man syndrome kicks in and over-rides 90% of the horsemanship.

For me, rodeos are not that far from bull fighting. Backward small town idiots trying to make themselves look big.

I doubt you have a quarter of the horsemanship skils
the average rodeo competitor has... see the girls who run barrels the ability and pure horsemanship of the ropers and the way they train the horses to stop and hold the tension on the rope ..for instance... im disapointed people are so ignorant.. and considering the third rate way most people ride and train horses in this country oh well nothing like living in a gold fish bowl like this wet little island and thinking whe're the best !!!no we need to look at what hapens in the rest of the world and not be so narrow minded .....

 

[jeeve]

I have been to several rodeos, and mostly enjoyed them. Some are probably run better than others. I think anyone who rides the bulls or horses (bucking) are mad.

The animals have been in good condition and their welfare has been a priority at those I have attended.

I would draw the line at bull fights though, I do not agree with those at all.

 

[Jennyharvey]

I doubt you have a quarter of the horsemanship skils
the average rodeo competitor has... see the girls who run barrels the ability and pure horsemanship of the ropers and the way they train the horses to stop and hold the tension on the rope ..for instance... im disapointed people are so ignorant.. and considering the third rate way most people ride and train horses in this country oh well nothing like living in a gold fish bowl like this wet little island and thinking whe're the best !!!no we need to look at what hapens in the rest of the world and not be so narrow minded .....

I wouldnt question the skill that these people have in training their horse. Im sure they are very good, and i couldnt ride one side of there horse. The recent video of reining that has been posted everywhere highlights that fact that just because a horse can do well at something, either reining or barrel racing, doesnt mean that cruel and unnessesary methods are used in the training. As in any discipline i guess. Im not saying that these methods are used, but you also cant say that they are not.

Im more concerned with the treatment of the cattle than the horses, except in broncs where i do hate it. Cattle are treated like commodities, like meat even before they are killed. They dont much care if they get injured, otherwise they would do such things as calf roping, steer wrestling and the wild horse race. These are probably the parts where most animals are hurt. All for our entertainment.

 

[shortstuff99]

Jenny, yes I believe that they should maybe have stricter controlls on the treatment of cattle, but not just for rodeos also in farming; especially on the continent, veal production and intensive farming I feel are more of a welfare issue then at rodeos (i'm not saying that they're less important).

I believe that intentional harming or killing of an animal for human entertainment should never happen, hence I don't support hunting or Bull fighting. And before people leap at me I do know the hunting community/culture so i'm not an ignoramous on a soapbox! lol

But everyone is entitled to their own oppinions/views

 

[TuscanBunnyGirl]

Are you saying that the wild horse race and calf roping are ok? Imagine running hell for leather and being halted abruptly by your neck. Do u feel this would hurt?

Or what about being a frightened horse being manhandled by lots of men, landing on your back, your neck, your head. Would this hurt?

The reason i bring these examples up is because in these two aspects, this is what happens at ANY rodeo, its how its done. You cant rope a calf without pulling on its neck. If you feel that this is acceptable, then i rest my case.

Very well said