Kauto doing dressage

[Fantasy_World]

Some really good recent comments here and I agree with the latter posts.
I have said before and will say so again, I have no personal gripe with Laura or with dressage in general, or even eventing, since I like to watch both.
However my heart lies with racing, National Hunt racing and I am surprised by the decision made by his owner.
I was not aware of the riding capabilities of Nicholls's wife and I will admit to ignorance on my part.
Now that I am aware of this now, it makes the whole move from Ditcheat even more questionable.
I do really now believe that Kauto is being used as a pawn for publicity scoring for Smith and the Retraining of racehorses.
I am also questioning whether Kauto has indeed already been reschooled at Nicholls's yard?
My reasons for this is looking how relaxed he looks in photos that have been submitted by Laura on various social networks.
On what is believed to be his first schooling session at Laura's, Kauto is seen wearing a normal saddle ( not racing or exercise which he is accustomed to) and is seemingly working on the bit.
Now I understand some horses can be clever, and thus the transition for racehorse to riding horse can be smoother, but this appears to be too quick, and too relaxed.
I still believe that Smith is seeking further stardom for his horse hence why he has sent the horse to who he has. He is being assessed for a further career.
If it was that he could do Retraining of racehorse classes and other equestrian disciplines then why was Nicholls's wife overlooked?
Was she not famous enough?
If and when he does leave Laura it is meant to be in around a month's time after he has been assessed, so I agree with comments above about why send him somewhere for a month and then move on again.
Unless he is truly retired I see Kauto Star being passed around as fame and interest wavers

 

[dressedkez]

A bad week for Nicholls - losing Kauto is such a public way, and now Big Bucks and Alferof out for the season - in racing you are either up or down (very little in between) what a sport to be involved with............Will Grand Cruz return to hurdling now? Who do we think is going to be champion trainer this year - Henderson I suspect.

 

[Starbucks]

I really can't believe this and I don't have time to read it all.

But who the hell can voice to say what should or shouldn't be done with someones own horse?? He's a national hero I doubt anyone who gets their hands on him isn't going to do anything other than adore him!!!

Bad year for PN though - Denman, Neptune, Kauto gone... and now Big Bucks and Alferof out for the season!

No one lives a flying foo that Neptune went to a dressage home though do they?? He only came in third behind Denman and Kauto in a gold cup and then won the national.. obviously not good enough to stay at the PN yard........

 

[Dobiegirl]

!

No one lives a flying foo that Neptune went to a dressage home though do they?? He only came in third behind Denman and Kauto in a gold cup and then won the national.. obviously not good enough to stay at the PN yard........[/QUOTE]

What a load of horse poo.

 

[Starbucks]

Some really good recent comments here and I agree with the latter posts.
I have said before and will say so again, I have no personal gripe with Laura or with dressage in general, or even eventing, since I like to watch both.
However my heart lies with racing, National Hunt racing and I am surprised by the decision made by his owner.
I was not aware of the riding capabilities of Nicholls's wife and I will admit to ignorance on my part.
Now that I am aware of this now, it makes the whole move from Ditcheat even more questionable.
I do really now believe that Kauto is being used as a pawn for publicity scoring for Smith and the Retraining of racehorses.
I am also questioning whether Kauto has indeed already been reschooled at Nicholls's yard?
My reasons for this is looking how relaxed he looks in photos that have been submitted by Laura on various social networks.
On what is believed to be his first schooling session at Laura's, Kauto is seen wearing a normal saddle ( not racing or exercise which he is accustomed to) and is seemingly working on the bit.
Now I understand some horses can be clever, and thus the transition for racehorse to riding horse can be smoother, but this appears to be too quick, and too relaxed.
I still believe that Smith is seeking further stardom for his horse hence why he has sent the horse to who he has. He is being assessed for a further career.
If it was that he could do Retraining of racehorse classes and other equestrian disciplines then why was Nicholls's wife overlooked?
Was she not famous enough?
If and when he does leave Laura it is meant to be in around a month's time after he has been assessed, so I agree with comments above about why send him somewhere for a month and then move on again.
Unless he is truly retired I see Kauto Star being passed around as fame and interest wavers

Or maybe PN is putting up a fight because he has no super stars in his yard now?

 

[Starbucks]

!

No one lives a flying foo that Neptune went to a dressage home though do they?? He only came in third behind Denman and Kauto in a gold cup and then won the national.. obviously not good enough to stay at the PN yard........

What a load of horse poo.[/QUOTE]

I must have missed the 50 page debate about that?

ETS - I'm hoping you sensed the sarcasm in my tone!!

 

[Dobiegirl]

What a load of horse poo.

I must have missed the 50 page debate about that?

ETS - I'm hoping you sensed the sarcasm in my tone!![/QUOTE]

No I didnt miss it, Ive read your posts before

 

[Starbucks]

I must have missed the 50 page debate about that?

ETS - I'm hoping you sensed the sarcasm in my tone!!

No I didnt miss it, Ive read your posts before[/QUOTE]

So that means you can't have a normal conversation? I meant I must have missed the 50 page debate about Neptune - who no one seemed quite as bothered about. I'm not sure which part is horse poo?

 

[oldvic]

No one lives a flying foo that Neptune went to a dressage home though do they?? He only came in third behind Denman and Kauto in a gold cup and then won the national.. obviously not good enough to stay at the PN yard........

Neptune Collonges hasn't gone anywhere. His owner's daughter is riding him. It is not a dressage home as Lisa Hales is a show jumping rider who did a walk trot test on him. He is at home, where all the Hales' horses go when they are resting or retired.

Or maybe PN is putting up a fight because he has no super stars in his yard now?

So all this happened before Big Bucks and Al Ferof went wrong. They are hardly useless. Kauto Stone and Silviniaco Conti are only 6 and looking full of promise - already grade 1 winners this season. Zarkandar is 5 and has really improved. He has already named 3 possibles to deputise for Big Bucks in the World Hurdle and these are just off the top of my head after a long day! There are not many trainers who wouldn't dream of having just one of these in a lifetime. No, Paul Nicholls is secure in the knowledge that he has plenty of good and wealthy owners who can buy the ammunition that he wants.

 

[Starbucks]

Neptune Collonges hasn't gone anywhere. His owner's daughter is riding him. It is not a dressage home as Lisa Hales is a show jumping rider who did a walk trot test on him. He is at home, where all the Hales' horses go when they are resting or retired.



So all this happened before Big Bucks and Al Ferof went wrong. They are hardly useless. Kauto Stone and Silviniaco Conti are only 6 and looking full of promise - already grade 1 winners this season. Zarkandar is 5 and has really improved. He has already named 3 possibles to deputise for Big Bucks in the World Hurdle and these are just off the top of my head after a long day! There are not many trainers who wouldn't dream of having just one of these in a lifetime. No, Paul Nicholls is secure in the knowledge that he has plenty of good and wealthy owners who can buy the ammunition that he wants.

I'll give you Silviniaco Conti although could never spell his name so glad you did!! Impressed last time he ran (although no expert!).

I really don't get the problem at all!! Is it that people think he's going to have too hard of a life now or too soft?? If Hales' horses go back to his home then that's all good but Kauto is relatively young so why can't he do a job? On the other hand Denman is lined up for some open team chasing which, even for him, is going to be a challenge! I think he will enjoy the change.

Although I did hear that on some sort of TV they were talking about Olympic Dressage for Kauto............... WTF!!!

 

[Luci07]

We have had ex racehorses who have come in and settled the way KS has to different tack, some basic training so it's not that much of a stretch! The biggest challenge is normally teaching them to stand at a block for mounting or coming off planet zog when travelling as they think they are racing. The poster who commented that they felt KS must have already been started is wrong. Of course it can go that way, and does. You must don't know till they get home. Some will settle quickly, some take up to a year..

 

[TrasaM]

I really can't believe this and I don't have time to read it all.

But who the hell can voice to say what should or shouldn't be done with someones own horse?? He's a national hero I doubt anyone who gets their hands on him isn't going to do anything other than adore him!!!

Made the same point about 20+ pages ago. So much fuss when no one knows for sure what the outcome will be. Meanwhile by all accounts horse is healthy and happy. What's the problem ?

 

[Fantasy_World]

We have had ex racehorses who have come in and settled the way KS has to different tack, some basic training so it's not that much of a stretch! The biggest challenge is normally teaching them to stand at a block for mounting or coming off planet zog when travelling as they think they are racing. The poster who commented that they felt KS must have already been started is wrong. Of course it can go that way, and does. You must don't know till they get home. Some will settle quickly, some take up to a year..

How do you know I was wrong?
For all we know he may have had some 'normal' riding while at Nicholls's yard.

 

[cptrayes]

How do you know I was wrong?
For all we know he may have had some 'normal' riding while at Nicholls's yard.

FW she didn't say you were wrong that he had been started, she said you were wrong that he MUST have been started.

I have also had half a dozen ex racers from auction and put a GP saddle on and hacked out next day with no problems. One even still had his aluminium race plates on

 

[Fantasy_World]

Ah but Kauto Star is no ordinary ex racer he is a fully tuned chaser capable of speed and winning from 2miles to 3 miles two and a half furlongs.
He possesses speed and stamina and is a winner of numerous Grade One chases.
He is not the average failed ex racer who ends up on the retraining bandwagon.
I still believe he has had some reschooling at Nicholls's yard prior to leaving.

 

[cptrayes]

Ah but Kauto Star is no ordinary ex racer he is a fully tuned chaser capable of speed and winning from 2miles to 3 miles two and a half furlongs.
He possesses speed and stamina and is a winner of numerous Grade One chases.
He is not the average failed ex racer who ends up on the retraining bandwagon.
I still believe he has had some reschooling at Nicholls's yard prior to leaving.

I don't believe that there is anything about Kauto Star that makes it any more difficult to retrain to a GP saddle and longer stirrups than any other fit racehorse.

Quite the reverse. My own experience of them is that flat racers which are race fit are, in general, much more twitchy than the heavier built and taller chasers.

I begin to understand where you are coming from, though. It's clearly very important to you to believe that if he is finding the change of tack and work easy, then it must be because Ditcheat started it.

While the rest of us know that he is just a horse, you seem to think that he is some kind of mystical being who only Ditcheat can manage. For his sake, I am glad that you are wrong.

 

[be positive]

How do you know I was wrong?
For all we know he may have had some 'normal' riding while at Nicholls's yard.

What do you mean by "normal" riding , it is usual for the horses at Ditcheat and most NH yards to hack down the roads with the staff riding with fairly long stirrups, if they are just doing roadwork they stay long or some will shorten them up as they get to the gallops. They tend to go in some sort of outline, if thats what you want to call it, by walking properly on the roads they will build up correct muscles and the good riders will know this.
All horses in training will, I hope, have done weeks of walking before they start fast work, plenty of time for a horse to be able to learn the basics, they may not have a capable rider on them or anyone that cares enough but I would expect senior staff members in any top yard to be riding the best horses and these horses to actually be easier to retrain than the poor quality horses from the less successful yards.

 

[Luci07]

And LC has kept saying what a great job PN has done with KS and how good the horse is feeling. My old chaser, who came out of a very good NH yard switched over very easily.

 

[Scarlett]

Ah but Kauto Star is no ordinary ex racer he is a fully tuned chaser capable of speed and winning from 2miles to 3 miles two and a half furlongs.
He possesses speed and stamina and is a winner of numerous Grade One chases.
He is not the average failed ex racer who ends up on the retraining bandwagon.
I still believe he has had some reschooling at Nicholls's yard prior to leaving.

.... and let me guess his urine can cure cancer and his droppings are pure gold? Yes?

FFS he is a HORSE! Not a mythical creature that can only exist within a certain world or he evaporates. A HORSE, just like all the others. Retraining him, with his history, will be the same sort of challenge as any horse that was in racing his length of time, it may not be easy but it doesn't mean that just because its him it has to be hard.

To be surprised at the fact he has settled and is accepting of a new way of riding is naive and stupid. To also assume he is only doing well because he had already started reschooling, thus taking away from his new rider and regime, is also offensive. LC is no regular numpty, she is a world class event rider with a history in TB's and racehorses, you and I can only dream of being as capable as her.

A trainer I'm involved with once had a lovely big chaser mare, she was a regular winner over all distances and in all conditions. The day after I watched her come second in a 3mile top quality chase I hacked her out for him. She wore a normal bridle and I used a 'normal' saddle, Kieffer jump saddle IIRC, and we walked and trotted around the local roads and tracks on our own, she understood the aids and what my hand wanted when I asked her to take a contact. She was a highly tuned chaser at the top of her game, yet she could easily have been someones smart riding horse out for a morning hack.

I've taken on several exracehorses and never had an issue putting a normal saddle on and getting on with it.

 

[silu]

I have been a huge racing fan all my 65 years and apart from Arkle who I was lucky enough to see race there has not been another NH horse as famous as Kauto with the general public, bar possibly Red Rum and Desert Orchid (Dawn Run, near, in Ireland anyway). I'm not surprised in the slightest that there has been a outcry over his future and surely this is a normal human emotion as Kauto has given years of enjoyment to millions. Whether the horse is fussed where his future lies only he knows!
The more this story rumbles on the more I'm convinced that publicity has had a fair amount of influence on his current stabling arrangements...very successful has it not? To move the horse to an event rider to be assessed for dressage?Maybe professional dressage riders aren't considered capable of sitting on a racehorse!!!!! Couple of dressage riders I know are more than capable.
Do people really think that Clive Smith is going to turn up at some low level dressage competitions and visit him on a weekly basis. I have my doubts on that 1.
Perhaps when the ballyhoo has calmed down and he's served his purpose he'll be shunted on to a vaulter/carriage driver to be assessed who could do with some publicity! All I'm interested in is the horse having a settled LONG term home doing something or nothing at all, he owes nothing to nobody, where he will get the personal attention he deserves.Glad to read there are a few others who have posted who appear on the same wavelength.

 

[marmalade76]

Glad to read there are a few others who have posted who appear on the same wavelength.

Yep, I am, totally.

 

[Clodagh]

Although I did hear that on some sort of TV they were talking about Olympic Dressage for Kauto............... WTF!!!

The TV media seem a little confused about what makes a top dressage horse. There was also a long article asking why he wasn't going to stud, if Frankel was why not Kauto. They seemed to miss the fact that he might struggle in a basic manner...

 

[Louise12]

Yep, I am, totally.

Likewise. And you saw Arkle! Now there was a horse that had a great retirement, albeit cut short as a result of his injury. He might have been a handful on the track, but his owner rode him around her farm like an old hunter

 

[millhouse]

Thank God for owners such as Anne Duchess of Westminster.

 

[Maesfen]

Thank God for owners such as Anne Duchess of Westminster.

Too right, a genuine lady very sadly missed. I know and have looked after several of her ex horses and if they were suitable, they went to genuine hunting homes where they still had the best of care and were able to let their hair down enjoying their 'retirement',

 

[TarrSteps]

How do you know I was wrong?
For all we know he may have had some 'normal' riding while at Nicholls's yard.

She's not saying you're wrong, she's saying quite a few horses, especially ones that have been well started and well ridden can go in a "riding horse way" almost immediately. Of course they are not strong enough to go straight out to do a test, and even very well started ones tend to have contact issues, but that's not going to show in a few photos. The fact that he's not going like a possessed giraffe doesn't mean anything more than he's been and continues to be, well ridden. It also doesn't mean he's a natural dressage talent. It just means what it means in that second.

I know some lovely competition riders who ride out - there are a few on this board who ride for very high profile trainers! - and would educate whatever they were sitting on without thinking about it. As would any good stable jockey.

 

[cptrayes]

To move the horse to an event rider to be assessed for dressage?Maybe professional dressage riders aren't considered capable of sitting on a racehorse!!!!! Couple of dressage riders I know are more than capable..

Is it beyond the wit of every naysayer on this forum to realise that the press have picked up the word "dressage" as being the work furthest possible away from what the horse does now and are selectively using it to make headlines?

If you wanted to have an ex racer assessed for what future career he might most take to, where would you send him???????

THAT'S RIGHT!

A really decent three day event rider who can test him for dressage, showjumping and cross country without him even leaving home, never mind changing riders.

And that's where he is.

 

[Fantasy_World]

Yep, I am, totally.

Me too

 

[christine48]

Is it beyond the wit of every naysayer on this forum to realise that the press have picked up the word "dressage" as being the work furthest possible away from what the horse does now and are selectively using it to make headlines?

If you wanted to have an ex racer assessed for what future career he might most take to, where would you send him???????

THAT'S RIGHT!

A really decent three day event rider who can test him for dressage, showjumping and cross country without him even leaving home, never mind changing riders.

And that's where he is.

Very well said!!

 

[maccachic]

?? Wow interesting comments all horses are different the majority of mine have been ex racers all settle quickly one who wanted to be a show pony placed in every class at a show after 1 month off the track.