Kauto doing dressage

It is generally agreed that the retraining of racehorses is a Good Thing. The RoR exists to help facilitiate the usage of ex racehorses in another life after racing rather than leave them languishing in a yard (or pet food!). You don't find people advocating a life on the yard over moving on, do you. KS is not exempt just because he was able to gallop faster than his peers.

KS is no different. He has raced like thousands of other racehorses out there. These other horses are encouraged to go on and do something more, why is KS any different. Just because he raced and came in ahead of other horses, who also raced like he did, does not mean he should not avail himself of the systems in place to allow ex racers to prosper...

It all comes down to whether you think a horse who has previously raced is going to enjoy a combination of hacking/schooling, jumping/unaffiliated or even affiliated competitions versus hacking up and down the same road to the same gallops to do the same thing every day ad infinitum.

Clearly a large number of people feel a horse that is no longer racing is better off moving on from a racing yard to do more. I genuinely don't understand people who would rather constrain a young, fit horse to a life of plodding up and down a road compared to life in an event (or other discipline's) yard. Is it a case if you can have him then no one should be able to enjoy him, let alone the horse enjoy himself!

Why would you deny him some fun? He is not a plaything for you to look at and pet. He is a horse with a mind of his own and deserves more than being a plod. There are plenty of nags out there PN's yard can use for leading others up to the gallops. It is no life I would choose for a young, fit horse. It's beyond selfish to treat a good horse like that :mad:.

Good on his owner for allowing KS the chance to continue to thrive and take on new challenges. Has this horse not done enough in life to prove to all your haters that he enjoys a challenge?
 
cptrayes said:
You people who want him to stay "where he has been happy" seem to be missing one huge point. He will not be living the same life if he stays where he is. He will not be as fit, he will not have the same exercise regime, he will not be racing and over time he will no longer be so "special" and given so much attention.

Personally, I think the horse would prefer to go to a more one-person home than continue to be part of a business.

You are entitled to disagree with me on this, but can we stop the vitriol about the owner?
Click to expand...

The owner deserves the vitriol.

And I am not missing any point - he'll carry on being ridden by Clifford and Donna, he'll stay in the same box at the head of the yard where he can see everything that goes on, he can go out in the same paddock he is used to, he'll go up the gallops without the hard work necessary to have him race fit, he could go to five big meeting a year as Dessie did and have Ruby, or Clifford, or another top jock take him for a spin round the track, and have everyone watch him come back in. That's what would happen, the only difference would be that he wouldn't jump fences at speed any more, or be put under pressure. It's a routine that he obviously loved and thrived on, otherwise he'd never have won what he did.
They love and adore him, he is King in that yard, and knows it. He was a Legend.

That's what was on the table for him. And now he's just another horse moved on. Utter disgrace.
 
Ks is not a suckling foal who needs to be left in the same yard. He is a mature horse perfectly capable of boxing up and being stabled at another yard. He is still pees and craps like any other horse!
Yes he should be respected but frankly so should any horse that has given its all in racing.
It is disgraceful how only some horses are good enough to love and respect in racing.
 
Drakerath said:
It is generally agreed that the retraining of racehorses is a Good Thing. The RoR exists to help facilitiate the usage of ex racehorses in another life after racing rather than leave them languishing in a yard (or pet food!). You don't find people advocating a life on the yard over moving on, do you. KS is not exempt just because he was able to gallop faster than his peers.
Click to expand...

I'll ignore the pathetic and puerile labeliing those of us who disagree with you as 'haters'.

Most racers NEED to find a new home as there is not the space on the yard they were trained in. Some trainers keep the special horses - NTD has Bindaree for ex.

Either you think horses are commodities, and never bond with people, or you have to get why it's wrong to move the horse. He's been racing competitively at the top level for 9 years. That's plenty - he's been in training since he was 2 - he is nearly thirteen. Surely his right is an easier version of a life he so clearly loves with people he knows.

He doesn't need a 'new' challenge, god knows he's faced enough in his life.

I am so saddened that people think horses should be passed around.
 
Drakerath said:
Ks is not a suckling foal who needs to be left in the same yard. He is a mature horse perfectly capable of boxing up and being stabled at another yard. He is still pees and craps like any other horse!
Yes he should be respected but frankly so should any horse that has given its all in racing.
It is disgraceful how only some horses are good enough to love and respect in racing.
Click to expand...

What - so because some trainers are less that caring about their horses, all horses have to suffer the same fate? Are you deranged? :rolleyes:

Why are you not applauding a trainer and staff who quite clearly care enough for the horse to offer him a home for life?
 
oldvic said:
Ruby Walsh not a proper rider?!!!!! He is probably one of the finest horsemen of our time. Good though Laura undoubtedly is, Ruby will have forgotten more about presenting a horse at a fence and riding a horse in balance than Laura will ever know. All sports require rhythm and balance for success - racehorses need balance to be economical with their energy and to be able to go fast. Being able to keep that balance is the difference between success and failure. Like a lot of french racehorses, KS has always been quite flat in his jump and found it easier to be long than deep to a fence. Not ideal for XC at any level. I'm not sure where the idea that racehorses don't have strong bodies comes from. I have never found a notable difference.
Click to expand...

Ruby Walsh is one of the best jump jockeys of all time . . . but he isn't an eventer. Arguing that he's better than LC, or any other eventer for that matter, is like arguing that apples taste better than oranges. All good riders can "ride" but there are unique differences between the disciplines that make the best in those disciplines shine. Yes, jockeys and eventers gallop between fences, but the similarities pretty much end there.

Yes, all equine sports require rhythm and balance . . . but all equine disciplines require horses to use different muscles in different ways. When I bought my boy, his idea of jumping was based on his hunting experience . . . fast and flat. It didn't take much schooling - and certainly not of the calibre of YB and LC - to teach him a different way of going . . . and he was 10 or 11 at the time.

The bottom line here is that KS has not been condemned to a life of drudgery iin some trekking centre . . . he's been sent for some education with a decent event rider and the British Eventing Team's chef d'equipe . . . he may, or may not take to his flatwork schooling . . . he may, or may not, make an eventer . . . he may, or may not, go back to Ditcheat. As frustrating and galling as it must be for all those in the racing fraternity to accept, the cold fact is that it's not for Paul Nichols to decide what to do with this lovely horse . . . it's down to his owner. From what I can see, he will be cherished and well cared for while he is on LC's yard . . . and we can only wait and see whether he enjoyes this new stage in his life.

P
 
Caledonia said:
Why are you not applauding a trainer and staff who quite clearly care enough for the horse to offer him a home for life?
Click to expand...

Because I don't think life as a PR machine and babysitter is the right life for this horse.

The offer by the trainer is not entirely altruistic, if at all. The offer by the staff is irrelevant as they are only employees, they will be paid for their work, and it is no skin off their nose if he stays.
 
Caledonia said:
What - so because some trainers are less that caring about their horses, all horses have to suffer the same fate? Are you deranged? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Oh for goodness sake, can you drop the emotive language?

suffer the same fate
Click to expand...

Suffer? To go to a nice and talented pro eventer's yard and be looked after like a pro eventer.


Even my horses wouldn't mind "suffering" that fate!
 
Neigh, snorty snort

What's that, Kauto? You think it's weird that all these people who never met you can read your mind?

Prrrrrrrrrrrrr! Snort!

You never gave any press interviews?

squeal!

Yes, I can imagine that would be very strange.
 
KS will be looked after just as well in LC's yard. Of that I have no doubt. He will receive the best care as her would have done at PNs. To suggest otherwise is somewhat arrogant is it not? PNs staff are no better or worse than many other top yards.

KS is being offered the opportunity to try something new and if he does not like it, then he can be retired to plod about as he would have done at PNs. He won't be forced into anything. This opportunity is for KS, not for his owner.

There is a wider world outside racing and this world can offer horses a better life than they would get in a race yard as the official Yard Nag!

clearly the crux of all this is that some people think being the yard hack is better than being reschooled. My own view is that would be crazy. I've seen both yards and I know what I'd prefer for a fit 12 year old.

And I don't see KS (or any other horse) as a commodity but then nor do I put him on a pedestal. I see him as a 12 year old horse with a brain and body that he would enjoy using for a few more years yet. I like to think I approach this with an unbiased viewpoint, not clouded by what this horse did in the past.

The past has no bearing on what this horse should do in the future. Only the future counts. Decisions should be made on what is in the best interests of this horse now and every day to come. They should not be based on what the horse did in the past. His best interests must be looked after, not preserving memories at the expense of a horse living in the here and now.
 
Caledonia said:
he'll carry on being ridden by Clifford and Donna, he'll stay in the same box at the head of the yard where he can see everything that goes on, he can go out in the same paddock he is used to, he'll go up the gallops without the hard work necessary to have him race fit, he could go to five big meeting a year as Dessie did and have Ruby, or Clifford, or another top jock take him for a spin round the track, and have everyone watch him come back in. That's what would happen, the only difference would be that he wouldn't jump fences at speed any more, or be put under pressure. It's a routine that he obviously loved and thrived on, otherwise he'd never have won what he did.
They love and adore him, he is King in that yard, and knows it. He was a Legend.
Click to expand...

Shall we look at this another way?

He'll be ridden by Clifford and Donna while either of them continues to be employed at that yard.

He'll be subject to the turnover of grooms that most large yards have, given that it's a very tough but very low paid job.

He'll watch as strings of racehorses come in, fail to be good enough, and disappear again. He'll make friends and lose them time and again.

He'll be galloping without the endorphin highs that come from super fitness.

The "drug withdrawal" of the loss of those endorphins without other activities to occupy his mind may turn him into a cribber or a weaver, assuming that he is not already one.

He'll be fussed over for another couple of years until his story is old hat and as a quiet elderly horse he might end up being used to teach the new lads how to gallop, when he might as well be in a riding school.

He'll be stuck at home unless he is taken out to be pawed over by the public at supermarket openings, and we've all seen how Joe public just loves to smack a horse's nose as a greeting. Or have any old jockey who's around jump on for a canter. Wow.





I am not saying that any of this will come true, but it's as likely as your shining picture of his future, and far more plausible than your massive condemnation of the future which his owner has chosen for him.
 
cptrayes said:
Shall we look at this another way?

He'll be ridden by Clifford and Donna while either of them continues to be employed at that yard.

He'll be subject to the turnover of grooms that most large yards have, given that it's a very tough but very low paid job.

He'll watch as strings of racehorses come in, fail to be good enough, and disappear again. He'll make friends and lose them time and again.

He'll be galloping without the endorphin highs that come from super fitness.

The "drug withdrawal" of the loss of those endorphins without other activities to occupy his mind may turn him into a cribber or a weaver, assuming that he is not already one.

He'll be fussed over for another couple of years until his story is old hat and as a quiet elderly horse he might end up being used to teach the new lads how to gallop, when he might as well be in a riding school.

He'll be stuck at home unless he is taken out to be pawed over by the public at supermarket openings, and we've all seen how Joe public just loves to smack a horse's nose as a greeting. Or have any old jockey who's around jump on for a canter. Wow.





I am not saying that any of this will come true, but it's as likely as your shining picture of his future, and far more plausible than your massive condemnation of the future which his owner has chosen for him.
Click to expand...

Nicholls does not have a swift turnover of staff - Kauto's been looked after by the same people since he arrived.

What I wrote about his future is what would have happened had the horse been treated with the respect he deserves, not some random guess. I know that through connections.

And as for the rest of your points, frankly, they're not worth dissecting.
I disagree with you. You are ranting randomly to point score and as ever becoming extremely tedious. But then you regard horses as commodities too, so we have no common ground whatsoever.
 
I dont particularly like CS purely because of the way this was handled but I dont think he is glory seeking either, people are saying because KS has been sent to a top yard engaging top people proves it.If he had sent him to an unknown person CS would be villified as a cheap skate when in fact he just wants him to have the top class care he has always had, so what is wrong with that.

I still hope that PN and CS can overcome their differences and when KS is fully retired he can go back home.

It must be heartbreaking down at Ditcheat looking out the office window and not seeing Kauto.
 
I think it's amazing that everyone KNOWS what all the players - KS, CS, PN, YB and LC - think and what's going to happen. Surely it's a done deal now? I really doubt anyone will push the situation too far, even only because there is no point and no one wants bad publicity. Either the horse will fit into the new gig or he won't.


It does raise an interesting point, though. In the great debate about retraining "ex-racers" there isn't always a lot of attention paid to WHICH ex-racers will succeed best in their new homes. People seem increasingly to think that any horse can fit into any slot, regardless of conformation, temperament, injury etc - maybe this will make a few more people taking on a "cheap" (because let's face it, that's often the motivation) horse give some consideration to the horse's suitability for whatever job they have planned for it, be it happy hacker or FEI eventer.
 
PolarExpress said:
Ruby Walsh is one of the best jump jockeys of all time . . . but he isn't an eventer. Arguing that he's better than LC, or any other eventer for that matter, is like arguing that apples taste better than oranges. All good riders can "ride" but there are unique differences between the disciplines that make the best in those disciplines shine. Yes, jockeys and eventers gallop between fences, but the similarities pretty much end there.

Yes, all equine sports require rhythm and balance . . . but all equine disciplines require horses to use different muscles in different ways. When I bought my boy, his idea of jumping was based on his hunting experience . . . fast and flat. It didn't take much schooling - and certainly not of the calibre of YB and LC - to teach him a different way of going . . . and he was 10 or 11 at the time.

The bottom line here is that KS has not been condemned to a life of drudgery iin some trekking centre . . . he's been sent for some education with a decent event rider and the British Eventing Team's chef d'equipe . . . he may, or may not take to his flatwork schooling . . . he may, or may not, make an eventer . . . he may, or may not, go back to Ditcheat. As frustrating and galling as it must be for all those in the racing fraternity to accept, the cold fact is that it's not for Paul Nichols to decide what to do with this lovely horse . . . it's down to his owner. From what I can see, he will be cherished and well cared for while he is on LC's yard . . . and we can only wait and see whether he enjoyes this new stage in his life.

P
Click to expand...

It's Ruby's talent as a horseman that I was commenting on and his skill at presenting horses at fences. I agree that a good rider is a good rider whatever his discipline but Ruby is exceptional. He would be just as at home eventing if he had chosen that route.
A hunter jumping fast and flat doesn't compare to a top class racehorse jumping flat. Some horses have a conscience and are careful others are less so. The latter tend to be less able to change. It is the necessity to use different muscles in different ways that is my exactly my point. I have no issue with Yogi or Laura - there are few, if any, better for the job they have been asked to do - and he certainly will be very well cared for. I just am not convinced it is right for this particular horse - my opinion, nobody else needs to agree.
 
Why is everyone getting so hot under the coller? If PN thought so much of KS, why did he say to move him that day? None of us will know what really went on between both parties.
Though I don't know LC personally, we see her around a lot on the eventing circuit. What I do know is that she is one of GBs up and coming talents, her horses always do a very good test. The horses always look immaculate. She has lessons with YB every week so I suspect money isn't a problem. I think he'll be very well cared for.
 
PolarExpress said:
Ruby Walsh is one of the best jump jockeys of all time . . . but he isn't an eventer. Arguing that he's better than LC, or any other eventer for that matter, is like arguing that apples taste better than oranges. All good riders can "ride" but there are unique differences between the disciplines that make the best in those disciplines shine. Yes, jockeys and eventers gallop between fences, but the similarities pretty much end there.

Yes, all equine sports require rhythm and balance . . . but all equine disciplines require horses to use different muscles in different ways. When I bought my boy, his idea of jumping was based on his hunting experience . . . fast and flat. It didn't take much schooling - and certainly not of the calibre of YB and LC - to teach him a different way of going . . . and he was 10 or 11 at the time.

The bottom line here is that KS has not been condemned to a life of drudgery iin some trekking centre . . . he's been sent for some education with a decent event rider and the British Eventing Team's chef d'equipe . . . he may, or may not take to his flatwork schooling . . . he may, or may not, make an eventer . . . he may, or may not, go back to Ditcheat. As frustrating and galling as it must be for all those in the racing fraternity to accept, the cold fact is that it's not for Paul Nichols to decide what to do with this lovely horse . . . it's down to his owner. From what I can see, he will be cherished and well cared for while he is on LC's yard . . . and we can only wait and see whether he enjoyes this new stage in his life.

P
Click to expand...

Agree with this ^^^^^
 
I would rather see a horse out doing a job than stuck in a stable or field doing nothing even though its more than capable.

KS will be looked after, he will have no more than he's capabe of asked of him, he's not a big flashy warmblood built and trained for Dressage and yogi and LC know this and will treat as such I'd imagine.

I just don't get what all the fuss is about he will be looked after, cared for and be challenged in a different way to keep his brain occupied, what's wrong with that? People attach too many human emotions to horses sometimes, does the horse really carewhose feeding him as long as he's fed?
 
Caledonia said:
Nicholls does not have a swift turnover of staff - Kauto's been looked after by the same people since he arrived.
Click to expand...

Kauto is a star, who looks after the also rans? Who will look after Kauto when his star has faded and he's a shrunken 20 year old has been?


What I wrote about his future is what would have happened had the horse been treated with the respect he deserves, not some random guess. I know that through connections.
Click to expand...

You have no idea what his future will be. He might have colicked tomorrow. God forbid but the trainer could get a nasty disease and be dead in a month. No-one knows the future and his future is at least as likely, and more so in my opinion, to be happy with the route that his owner has taken.


And as for the rest of your points, frankly, they're not worth dissecting.
I disagree with you. You are ranting randomly to point score and as ever becoming extremely tedious.
Click to expand...

It is always the refuge of people who are finding the argument difficult to resort to personal insult.

But then you regard horses as commodities too, so we have no common ground whatsoever.
Click to expand...


And this one I absolutley LOVE! You strongly support jump racing with the highest death rates in equestrian sport in a long, long way and you accuse me of regarding horses as commodities? Best one of the day, well done, made me smile for the first time since I got up.
 
cptrayes said:
Kauto is a star, who looks after the also rans? Who will look after Kauto when his star has faded and he's a shrunken 20 year old has been?




You have no idea what his future will be. He might have colicked tomorrow. God forbid but the trainer could get a nasty disease and be dead in a month. No-one knows the future and his future is at least as likely, and more so in my opinion, to be happy with the route that his owner has taken.




It is always the refuge of people who are finding the argument difficult to resort to personal insult.




And this one I absolutley LOVE! You strongly support jump racing with the highest death rates in equestrian sport in a long, long way and you accuse me of regarding horses as commodities? Best one of the day, well done, made me smile for the first time since I got up.
Click to expand...

Who's resorting to personal insult now? Clearly you can dish it out but not take it.

This is because you don't like racing, you appear to think that no horse likes being in a racing yard. You obviously have no understanding of the regard Kauto is held in in the yard.

He will be passed on from LC. It's wrong that such a legendary horse should have to be continually rehomed. But then you seem to think he's just a horse. I don't, I think he should be celebrated and lauded for his bravery and character, and the pleasure he has brought to so many people over the years, with his obvious joy of doing what he does best - being a racehorse.

What happens to other horses is not the issue here, that's diverting the topic completely - this is about the selfish arrogance of a difficult man who want to hurt those on the yard at Ditcheat and has used the best horse I've seen in my lifetime to do that. Only as ever it's the horse that suffers.
 
Caledonia said:
Who's resorting to personal insult now? Clearly you can dish it out but not take it.
Click to expand...

I think you'll find that your last comment is more appropriate to your own behaviour? It is the person who insults first to whom that applies, not that I accept that I have said anything insulting you at all.

You obviously have no understanding of the regard Kauto is held in in the yard.
Click to expand...

He doesn't give a toss about their regard for him, you are anthropomorphising too much

It's wrong that such a legendary horse should have to be continually rehomed.
Click to expand...
He will not be continually rehomed. He is being assessed by Breisner and Collett at the request of the ROR scheme to see if he is suitable to become a lower level horse in different disciplines. At the end of that he will be found a one on one home where he will have ONE person who thinks the world of him who he knows that he belongs to. In my experience of retrained racehorses, they love it.


But then you seem to think he's just a horse. I don't, I think he should be celebrated and lauded for his bravery and character, and the pleasure he has brought to so many people over the years, with his obvious joy of doing what he does best - being a racehorse.
Click to expand...

But he cannot continue to be a racehorse. It will kill him. He won't be a racehorse if he stays at his training yard. You seem want him as some kind of stable trophy and to be honest this latest comment says more about what you and the humans on that yard want than what is right for him.

this is about the selfish arrogance of a difficult man who want to hurt those on the yard at Ditcheat and has used the best horse I've seen in my lifetime to do that. Only as ever it's the horse that suffers.
Click to expand...

One, I do not believe that the horse will suffer in any way from this move.

Two, I believe that the horse will have a MORE enjoyable life from this move. All he wants is to be a horse, not someone's personal trophy.

Three, I do not agree with you about the motives of the owner. He appears to me to be doing a huge and marvellous PR job for ALL finished racehorses by this highly publicised and no doubt expensive move.

You are aware that you can be sued for libel even for anonymous posts online, are you? You seem to me to be stepping very close to the line about a rich man with plenty of connections. I would be a little more careful about what I write if I were you.
 
Fantasy_World said:
You obviously don't see many stallion parades at racecourses then do you?
They were ex racers and they prance around the ring proud and excited to be there.
Tell me Frankel did not enjoy his spin in front of the crowds?
Tell me Kauto Star did not enjoy his appearance at Haydock?
How exuberantly did Dessie used to power down the course, even in his later years.
They loved it, they were special horses.
Kauto has nothing more to prove.
He is not a stallion so he cannot pass on any of his genes.
I will say this and I will say this again.
The reason he has been sent to a top rider with a top trainer is to seek further stardom for the horse.
Why?
Why does Kauto need to excel in another discipline?
Tell me who is Smith doing this for exactly, him or the horse?
The horse owes him nothing financially or publicly as it has helped him into the limelight of the press on many an occasion.
However his owner clearly feels this is not enough and he wants Kauto to bow out in style.
No matter what the cost to the horse, he wants to see him winning again.
Funny how some people can clearly not accept a retirement from high level competitions.
Kauto could have done many, many equine disciplines to keep his mind active.
He would not have got bored at Nicholls.
Racing is all he has ever known..........
An outstanding racehorse is all he will ever be perceived as by his TRUE racing fans.
Click to expand...

a bit of commonsense at last!
 
Dobiegirl said:
I wouldnt take much notice of what cptrayes is saying,....... anyone that remembers her Shetland post will never take her seriously.
Click to expand...

Oh, that would be the fact that I once kicked a Shetland instead of leaning down to hit it with my hand that makes me unfit to comment on the rehoming of a finished racehorse, would it Dobiegirl :D


I assume you can't actually think of anything relevant to add to this discussion?
 
Last edited:
Miss L Toe said:
a bit of commonsense at last!
Click to expand...

Have you seen an NH previous winners parade at a racecourse MLT?

The one I saw at the Grand National could have made you weep. They looked more bored and wooden than the steam carousel at our local fair. Walking a load of pensioned off geldings in a circle like dogs at a dog show does not compare with a stallion parade!

There's a fair amount of other nonsense in the comment that you think so highly of, but you are entitled to your own opinion about it.
 
cptrayes said:
Oh, that would be the fact that I once kicked a Shetland instead of leaning down to hit it with my hand that makes me unfit to comment on the rehoming of a finished racehorse, would it Dobiegirl :D


I assume you can't actually think of anything relevant to add to this discussion?
Click to expand...

To refresh your memory, your hubby was forgetful of shutting the food store so rather than put a lock on , fence it off or sort out your husband you laid in wait for your Shetland and gave it a kicking so he wouldnt raid the food store again.

I have made lots of relevent posts without being emotional but Im not obsessed with trying to get my opinion over which maybe you could take on board Im sure others would be grateful for that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top