Kauto doing dressage

Goldenstar said:
I personally don't think it's a given that racehorses enjoy parading but it would have benn nice for his fans to see have a good bye party that's probally down to PN and his team if the had kept the horse until boxing day he could have done the parade and then quietly gone off to his new home in the new year but heyho I doult the horse cares a jot.
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You obviously don't see many stallion parades at racecourses then do you?
They were ex racers and they prance around the ring proud and excited to be there.
Tell me Frankel did not enjoy his spin in front of the crowds?
Tell me Kauto Star did not enjoy his appearance at Haydock?
How exuberantly did Dessie used to power down the course, even in his later years.
They loved it, they were special horses.
Kauto has nothing more to prove.
He is not a stallion so he cannot pass on any of his genes.
I will say this and I will say this again.
The reason he has been sent to a top rider with a top trainer is to seek further stardom for the horse.
Why?
Why does Kauto need to excel in another discipline?
Tell me who is Smith doing this for exactly, him or the horse?
The horse owes him nothing financially or publicly as it has helped him into the limelight of the press on many an occasion.
However his owner clearly feels this is not enough and he wants Kauto to bow out in style.
No matter what the cost to the horse, he wants to see him winning again.
Funny how some people can clearly not accept a retirement from high level competitions.
Kauto could have done many, many equine disciplines to keep his mind active.
He would not have got bored at Nicholls.
Racing is all he has ever known..........
An outstanding racehorse is all he will ever be perceived as by his TRUE racing fans.
 
No matter what the cost to the horse, he wants to see him winning again.
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I'm not sure that's the case actually. I think it's probably more to wanting him to have the best opportunity of turning his hand to another job.
 
PolarExpress said:
1) How do you KNOW she won't end up eventing him? If she finds he has an aptitude, even at unaffiliated level, what a fun second career for him.
2) How do you KNOW she'll get fed up riding him? She might really like riding him . . . and I'm pretty sure CS will have sent KS to her yard on condition that only certain people do ride him - given how valuable he is.
3) What's so horrible about a) riding a new horse as soon as possible; and b) riding in an indoor school? Some racing yards so actually school their youngsters indoors - I know this b/c a friend of mine/fellow livery rescues and rehabilitates OTTs.

Seriously, I don't understand all this flapping . . . not to mention all the speculation. At the end of the day, the horse belongs to CS . . . not PN, not you and not me.

P
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Jumping a horse like Kauto over solid obstacles - have you even watched the horse? Christ, he had a horrendous fall at home schooling with people who know him inside out - the way he operates he'd be dangerous to event ............

LC is driven by ambition, KS will not fulfil any of that, except the short term flurry of interest in her getting her name into the public domain. It's a well played publicity stunt that can only backfire on the horse.
She has owners in the yard who will want her to give their EVENT horses full time attention. He will necessarily take a back seat very shortly.

I have ridden enough racehorses in training and in rehab to know that some will never settle to a dressage career. It's wrong to put a square peg in a round hole (thank you for that analogy, whoever I got it from ;) ) because we want to.

Loads of racehorses go indoors at some point, but they're not schooled the way a horse being tuned up for dressage will be, they still hack and half speed and gallop.

If you genuinely believes ownership entitles people to do whatever they want with a horse, then the welfare bodies have no hope, nor those advising against badly bitted horses, or underfed horses etc.

It's the WRONG decision for that particular horse given that he had no need to be moved as a home for life was offered. It's the whim of the owner to stick two fingers up to Ditcheat, that's all.

ETA - so he's now not parading? That's a swift turnaround from yesterday ...............
 
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amymay said:
I'm not sure that's the case actually. I think it's probably more to wanting him to have the best opportunity of turning his hand to another job.
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But I will say this again, why does he need to?
Why does Smith want his horse to continue to win competitions.
Can he not accept Kauto for what he is, what he was, which was a superb National Hunt chaser.
True he did not win an Irish National but he was perhaps the closest horse we have seen since Desert Orchid for his ability to win at the top level in a variety of distances.
 
Fantasy_World said:
But I will say this again, why does he need to?
Why does Smith want his horse to continue to win competitions.
Can he not accept Kauto for what he is, what he was, which was a superb National Hunt chaser.
True he did not win an Irish National but he was perhaps the closest horse we have seen since Desert Orchid for his ability to win at the top level in a variety of distances.
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Do we know CS wants HIS horse to win competions ?
No
We just know it been sent to an amazing trainer and a very good rider for assessment and retraining that's all.
 
Of course he has...... read the comments from the vile Mr Smith in today's Post and see if you all still agree with the REAL reason he has sent the horse where he has.
The horse is too good to be a hack.... reading between the lines, the horse can still win ME competitions and praise.
 
Goldenstar said:
Do we know CS wants HIS horse to win competions ?
No
We just know it been sent to an amazing trainer and a very good rider for assessment and retraining that's all.
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Exactly... all I see is the owner giving the horse the best possible chance at a career after racing by putting him in the hands of a superb professional rider, one of the worlds best trainer with excellent facilities and superb back up team to begin his re-education. No one has mentioned winning anything, no one has even mentioned him competing from the things I have read.
 
Fantasy_World said:
Of course he has...... read the comments from the vile Mr Smith in today's Post and see if you all still agree with the REAL reason he has sent the horse where he has.
The horse is too good to be a hack.... reading between the lines, the horse can still win ME competitions and praise.
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Can't read the Post online. Will check it out later today.
 
Caledonia said:
Jumping a horse like Kauto over solid obstacles - have you even watched the horse? Christ, he had a horrendous fall at home schooling with people who know him inside out - the way he operates he'd be dangerous to event ............

LC is driven by ambition, KS will not fulfil any of that, except the short term flurry of interest in her getting her name into the public domain. It's a well played publicity stunt that can only backfire on the horse.
She has owners in the yard who will want her to give their EVENT horses full time attention. He will necessarily take a back seat very shortly.

I have ridden enough racehorses in training and in rehab to know that some will never settle to a dressage career. It's wrong to put a square peg in a round hole (thank you for that analogy, whoever I got it from ;) ) because we want to.

Loads of racehorses go indoors at some point, but they're not schooled the way a horse being tuned up for dressage will be, they still hack and half speed and gallop.

If you genuinely believes ownership entitles people to do whatever they want with a horse, then the welfare bodies have no hope, nor those advising against badly bitted horses, or underfed horses etc.

It's the WRONG decision for that particular horse given that he had no need to be moved as a home for life was offered. It's the whim of the owner to stick two fingers up to Ditcheat, that's all.
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Very well said!
 
Fantasy_World said:
But I will say this again, why does he need to?
Why does Smith want his horse to continue to win competitions.
Can he not accept Kauto for what he is, what he was, which was a superb National Hunt chaser.
True he did not win an Irish National but he was perhaps the closest horse we have seen since Desert Orchid for his ability to win at the top level in a variety of distances.
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Fantasay World,
That makes you look delusional.
KS was a superb chaser. Agreed. He is also a 12 year old horse with a brain and a desire to do well, is he not?
You remind me of Damien Hirst with his odd desires to cut animal in half so he can savour them in that state. Why do you want to freeze KS in "time" and force him to have a dull life hacking. He is a horse not a God. *You* might see him as a God. *He* sees himself as a horse and horses like that usually enjoy competing and using thier brain and body in all sorts of ways.
Do you even have horses of your own ? You appear to lack any ability to empathise with this horse.

Ask yourself if you would want to take any of your own horses (if you have them), one that is 12 years old and is fit and well, one that loves life and loves competitions/parties out, and ask yourself whether it is fair to that horse to leave it plodding up and down a nearby lane everyday for the rest of its life?

I'm not saying it would have been cruel to leave KS at PN's yard because he would have been pampered with therapists :p but it would possibly be a less fulfilling life for the horse.

Surely by offering KS a chance to enjoy another way of life (be it low key dressage, be it show jumping, eventing, hunting - whatever the WORLD CLASS trainer YB, WORLD CLASS rider LC and his owner , decide KS is best suited too.

No one is saying KS is going to be jumping round Badminton ever or doing piaffe everyday from here on in. He is going somewhere to be given the chance to try his hand at something new, that is all. He is being given a chance. Pity the selfish racing punters who want to deny him some fun in his retirement because it might spoil their memories of him. How about you turn your attention to the other ex race horses left to rot.
As I said before, I only wish the other horses who finish racing were given just a fraction of the same attention as KS. It is abysmal how you racing lot only care for the horses that win. You don't give a stuff about the thousands of others who upon not winning enough cash for you at the bookies, are fit only to go to Pedigree Chum.

If you ridden out in race yards AND you have ridden in an event yard, you will know just where horses get more variety in their life and where you would want a horse you loved to spend their time.
 
This RP piece FW?
http://www.racingpost.com/news/live.sd

My understanding of the English language must be poorer than I ever thought as I can see nothing indicated there to insinuate that he wants the horse to go out and win him glory or praise? In fact he states that he would like to spend more time with him....

He said; ''I'm sure Clifford Baker would do a wonderful job and he'd be lovely for him but I always thought I was the owner. I didn't see him enough anyway because I'm 100 miles away. As the owner I'm entitled to some time with him."

Im sorry but Mr Smith let us all be part of his wonderful horses story, it was him who owned him all those years and let us in. How dare anyone deny him his chance to see the horse go live a good life now the horse is retired.

Very few racehorses make money, without owners like him who take the chances and spend their money people like us would never get to know these horses, we should be thanking him for the last 8 years, not calling him names.
 
I dare say with a 'proper' rider on KS's back and some schooling under his belt, he would be a lot less likely to take the crashing falls he had when being ridden by stable jocks.

I don't mean disrespect by this but anyone in this industry knows that stable jocks are great at what they do (race riding and (race) schooling) but they are not in a position to (dressage) school and balance horses because it just isn't needed and thus not a priority when all a horse needs to do is bascially go fast and stay upright whilst taking on some brush fences.

To take on an event course, a horse NEEDS to have been balanced/schooled and have a stronger body all over.

LC is in a position to do this if it is within KS's ability. It may not work - not all racehorses can convert but it's a darn sight more likely to with a rider like LC on his back not a race rider.

It's not on to deny a horse a chance because you want to damn him on the basis of "what ifs" and in the pursuit of holding on to your own memories of past races. Letting him move on does not change his past or his achievements.
 
Well said Scarlett. I've never reported a post on here before but came mighty close with FW's earlier post calling Mr Smith some pretty unpleasant names.
 
I can't see why people think it would be a better life for him to stay in a racing yard. If my hunter's disappointed face is anything to go by every time I load anyone but him into the lorry, then the last thing a highly competitive animal like Kauto Star would want is to be stuck at home every time anyone else went out to race.
 
cptrayes said:
I can't see why people think it would be a better life for him to stay in a racing yard. If my hunter's disappointed face is anything to go by every time I load anyone but him into the lorry, then the last thing a highly competitive animal like Kauto Star would want is to be stuck at home every time anyone else went out to race.
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Kauto Star UK’s race runnings
Dec 2004 to Dec 2005 raced 4 times
March 2006 to March 2007 raced 7 times
Oct 2007 to 1st November 2008 raced 7 times
22nd November 2008 to 21st November 2009 raced 4 times
26th December 2009 to 6th November 2010 raced 3 times
15th Jan 2011 to March 2012 ( 14 month period) raced 6 times

This ^^^^^^ plus a few racecourse gallops
Compared to the number of times a lorry leaves Ditcheat on a daily basis I would not have thought Kauto would miss the lorry leaving that much.
 
Fantasy_World said:
Kauto Star UK’s race runnings
Dec 2004 to Dec 2005 raced 4 times
March 2006 to March 2007 raced 7 times
Oct 2007 to 1st November 2008 raced 7 times
22nd November 2008 to 21st November 2009 raced 4 times
26th December 2009 to 6th November 2010 raced 3 times
15th Jan 2011 to March 2012 ( 14 month period) raced 6 times

This ^^^^^^ plus a few racecourse gallops
Compared to the number of times a lorry leaves Ditcheat on a daily basis I would not have thought Kauto would miss the lorry leaving that much.
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He'll know it's never him in that lorry except to open a supermarket or plod round in tiny circles at some parade of champions. The one I saw at the Grand National, they all looked bored witless.
 
Drakerath said:
I dare say with a 'proper' rider on KS's back and some schooling under his belt, he would be a lot less likely to take the crashing falls he had when being ridden by stable jocks.

I don't mean disrespect by this but anyone in this industry knows that stable jocks are great at what they do (race riding and (race) schooling) but they are not in a position to (dressage) school and balance horses because it just isn't needed and thus not a priority when all a horse needs to do is bascially go fast and stay upright whilst taking on some brush fences.

To take on an event course, a horse NEEDS to have been balanced/schooled and have a stronger body all over.

LC is in a position to do this if it is within KS's ability. It may not work - not all racehorses can convert but it's a darn sight more likely to with a rider like LC on his back not a race rider.

It's not on to deny a horse a chance because you want to damn him on the basis of "what ifs" and in the pursuit of holding on to your own memories of past races. Letting him move on does not change his past or his achievements.
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Oh he's plenty strong enough, but his way of going will make it difficult to have him anchored safely enough to jump solid obstaces. And why the hell should he have to change from what he knows and loves? This is the bit I really don't understand - if a horse like KS cannot be honoured enough to have the best option for him, then what hope is there for any other horse??:confused:

Because make no mistake, no horse wins all that being unhappy in his routine. You say it's not on to deny him a chance - a chance of what? Seriously, he has a life where he's loved adored worked and happy. Doesn't he deserve to keep that rather than be used as a weapon by his petulant owner and publicity hungry new trainer and rider?
 
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Good grief, what vitriol this is raising :eek: You'd think no-one ever took a showjumper and turned it to dressage, or that no horse was ever happy in a different home from the one it's been in for a few years.


You people who want him to stay "where he has been happy" seem to be missing one huge point. He will not be living the same life if he stays where he is. He will not be as fit, he will not have the same exercise regime, he will not be racing and over time he will no longer be so "special" and given so much attention.

Personally, I think the horse would prefer to go to a more one-person home than continue to be part of a business.

You are entitled to disagree with me on this, but can we stop the vitriol about the owner?
 
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amymay said:
Thanks for the link.

Can't see, either, where it says about the horse going on to win for him:confused:
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Of course he is not going to state the horse is going to win for him, it is rather what he is hoping, without saying this in public.
Did you not see the banter he used to have with Harry Findlay over Denman vs Kauto Star?
Smith is ambitious and owners like that do not change overnight.
He is sending the horse to one of the best riders and trainers in the country why exactly?
So that the horse has the best chance of switching codes?
mmmmm let me think on that.
Now why would he want the horse to have the best chance of doing that I wonder?
So he would do well at it?

As for the other comment further up about the owner wishing to spend more time with his horse, oh yes of course ..........
He is going from one competition yard to another, he is hardly going to the average DIY livery yard down the road where you can spend time with your horse petting, treating, mucking out etc.
Somehow I could not see him donning a pair of gloves, a pair of Ariats and lifting up Kauto's faeces from the stable floor.
Or fetching the grooming kit to give him a good brush or put on that extra layer as he has just been clipped and it is a bit chilly outside.

No a polo or two will do and a little pat for good measure..... and now off to speak about how his training is coming along and when do you think he may appear at a venue?
That is more how I imagine the situation will be.
Kauto Star is an asset, a commodity to be orchestrated like a puppet on a string.

The horse could probably not careless what he is doing so long as he is getting out and stretching his legs.
Tell me do dressage horses stand in their stables and ponder..... I simply must perfect my piaffe........
Or the showjumper..... gosh I really must learn to lift my hind legs a little bit higher next time.
Kauto just like any horse will enjoy being ridden ( if no problems), having a good blast now and then. Stretching his legs, having a good old roll in his stable, field or school.
Time out at pasture with other equine company.
Being groomed, rubbed, or massaged as horses quite enjoy this, since they do it to each other in the field.
Finally being fed, horses must eat and drink to survive.
That is a horse, the life of a horse as I see it.
A life that he could have achieved where he was, his home.
Kauto does not dream about becoming a top dressage horse or eventer. Those are the secret dreams of his owner.
He should have stayed where he was with the people that knew him best of all.... end of!
 
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cptrayes said:
Good grief, what vitriol this is raising :eek: You'd think no-one ever took a showjumper and turned it to dressage, or that no horse was ever happy in a different home from the one it's been in for a few years.


You people who want him to stay "where he has been happy" seem to be missing one huge point. He will not be living the same life if he stays where he is. He will not be as fit, he will not have the same exercise regime, he will not be racing and over time he will no longer be so "special" and given so much attention.

Personally, I think the horse would prefer to go to a more one-person home than continue to be part of a business.

You are entitled to disagree with me on this, but can we stop the vitriol about the owner?
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^^^^^ Absolutely agree , I think some of the comments about Mr. Smith are disgraceful and quite uncalled for, no one on this forum knows what went on between PN and CS. I was amused by CS's comment re thinking that he was the horse's owner, maybe he didn't realise that lots of HHOers are taking on that responsibility :D:D There are thousands of racehorses who would be extremely lucky to go to such a 'terrible future' :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Drakerath said:
I dare say with a 'proper' rider on KS's back and some schooling under his belt, he would be a lot less likely to take the crashing falls he had when being ridden by stable jocks.

I don't mean disrespect by this but anyone in this industry knows that stable jocks are great at what they do (race riding and (race) schooling) but they are not in a position to (dressage) school and balance horses because it just isn't needed and thus not a priority when all a horse needs to do is bascially go fast and stay upright whilst taking on some brush fences.

To take on an event course, a horse NEEDS to have been balanced/schooled and have a stronger body all over.

LC is in a position to do this if it is within KS's ability. It may not work - not all racehorses can convert but it's a darn sight more likely to with a rider like LC on his back not a race rider.

It's not on to deny a horse a chance because you want to damn him on the basis of "what ifs" and in the pursuit of holding on to your own memories of past races. Letting him move on does not change his past or his achievements.
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Ruby Walsh not a proper rider?!!!!! He is probably one of the finest horsemen of our time. Good though Laura undoubtedly is, Ruby will have forgotten more about presenting a horse at a fence and riding a horse in balance than Laura will ever know. All sports require rhythm and balance for success - racehorses need balance to be economical with their energy and to be able to go fast. Being able to keep that balance is the difference between success and failure. Like a lot of french racehorses, KS has always been quite flat in his jump and found it easier to be long than deep to a fence. Not ideal for XC at any level. I'm not sure where the idea that racehorses don't have strong bodies comes from. I have never found a notable difference.
You accuse the racing people of letting their feelings overrule what is good for the horse. You are doing just that by saying he would rather have a change in lifestyle than stick with what he knows. How do you know that? Did he tell you?!!!

cptrayes said:
I can't see why people think it would be a better life for him to stay in a racing yard. If my hunter's disappointed face is anything to go by every time I load anyone but him into the lorry, then the last thing a highly competitive animal like Kauto Star would want is to be stuck at home every time anyone else went out to race.
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KS is used to seeing the box going out without him. PN has runners virtually every day, sometimes 2/3 meetings but KS would only be on those boxes 3/4 times a year. His situation will be no different at Laura's. The box will go out a lot without him. I would doubt that he would care as he doesn't expect to go out every time. It tends to be horses from small yards that care more.
 
KS is used to seeing the box going out without him. PN has runners virtually every day, sometimes 2/3 meetings but KS would only be on those boxes 3/4 times a year. His situation will be no different at Laura's. The box will go out a lot without him. I would doubt that he would care as he doesn't expect to go out every time. It tends to be horses from small yards that care more.[/QUOTE]

I have posted earlier how many races he has contested in the UK. Obviously he has had racecourse gallops and no doubt veterinary hospital visits too ( aside the recent parades). But I agree with you Nicholls has a very busy yard and Kauto will have experienced this.
 
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