Kauto Star at Olympia last night

Didn't think the organisers could get it more wrong than they did with the KP demo. Oh well.....

Not getting involved with all the arguments about the people involved. All I will say is that horses that have given their all should be allowed to keep their dignity when they retire.
 
To me looked doped, the fact it worsened would also make me think that.

Equally however- no excuse for riding like that.

And any real pro rider who has had them shut down like that would call an end to it.
Let him stand in the middle and answer questions/do interview to fill the space if it was really that important!
 
Not every ex-racer would fair well with a pure dressage home. An event home where he could play with the dressage and see how he copes IMHO was a much fairer bet. I very much doubt he spends his whole time perfecting 10 metre circles at his current home and every time I have seen KS in the flesh at demos he has been looking happy and content, if a little fresh.

I for one feel, that public's expectations of what he should have achieved are often unrealistic. They either seem to want him to have retired entirely or be out executing perfect passage and piaffe. The reality is he is an ex-racer, carrying old injuries. Not every racer is suited to retirement, not every ex-racer will do as well as the Diamonds in the Rough girls.

Whilst I don't think the Olympia demo was the best thing for KS (or LC for that matter) for lots of reasons I have seen him look a million dollars at other venues. The public love seeing him in his retirement in the same way they enjoyed Milton or some of the other 'oldies'. The horse owes no one anything, but unless you're dealing with him on a day in day out basis it is very hard to judge what he should or shouldn't be doing.
 
Ouch. That does looks sore. Personally I think he looks a touch over girthed....but then again its hard to see clearly from a picture.
LC did post that he was just freshly clipped the day before whilst not ideal it might explain the rubbing.
 
Watching the video and interview, and although it does make unpleasant viewing, I agree with what LC is saying to be honest.

Owing an ex racehorse myself, if I push her into intimidating situations she is unsure of, she will totally switch off, go dead to the leg and become frankly uncooperative and un-rideable. Embarrassing enough for me, never mind for LC! She must have been mortified at the time, as the pressure put on her and KS is unbelievable and totally unrealistic.

Furthermore, being at such a high profile show she would not have got away with giving the horse a few good cracks as most would do in a home situation. 'Horse gets stage fright' is a better headline than 'LC abuses horses'. As Pigeon says, I'd take pony kicking all day long!

No I do not think the KS was doped up to the eyeballs, I think he is green and they were both totally unprepared for the atmosphere.
 
Oh dear poor Laura! How embarrassing. I actually feel really sorry for her, there's not a lot you can do when a horse simply won't move. I think the hands was to try and keep his head
up!
Perhaps in hindsight retiring would have been the best thing. He does look amazing though and the canter was looking nice. He'll do a nice test I'm sure. Maybe no more Olympia appearances though, not sure he's cut out for that. My exrace horse can go behind the leg when nervous in the dressage ring so I understand, it took him a year or two before he moved forwards in dressage. Our scores were always reflective of the comments 'obedient but behind leg'!
For all those comments about its a shame to see him like this... yes he *was* the best chaser ever but he's not now. Now he's an ex racer being retrained to do another job and for a horse that raced as much as he did it's going to take a lot of work to unravel all that and get him settled to a new career. I also suspect being the sort of calibre horse he is, he wouldn't have taken to being chucked in a field.
Desert Orchid used to make me laugh, he used to take off when doing demonstrations!
 
as an exracer owner myself I also have had that kind of situation occur at large shows and its horrible. I agree that if she had have used a whip it would have been splashed all over the papers as cruelty. LC doesn't usually ride like that so there must have been a reason, she's human as well, so im sure she can suffer stage fright too.

i am bafffled how people get so upset about this, the basic facts of the matter are
• the owner can do what he likes with this horse
• all other videos show the horse working happily at home in great condition
• its on a fab yard, with a good rider and top class trainer
• it has often been remarked how kauto wouldn't be suitable for hunting due to the way he goes at times and his hairy jumping technique.
• there are photos of him jumping and hacking at home, so he has a happy well rounded education

Considering the incredible amount of neglect and abuse of horses elsewhere, i'd imagine he is in a better position than a lot of horses in the world
 
paddi22 said:
as an exracer owner myself I also have had that kind of situation occur at large shows and its horrible. I agree that if she had have used a whip it would have been splashed all over the papers as cruelty. LC doesn't usually ride like that so there must have been a reason, she's human as well, so im sure she can suffer stage fright too.

i am bafffled how people get so upset about this, the basic facts of the matter are
• the owner can do what he likes with this horse
• all other videos show the horse working happily at home in great condition
• its on a fab yard, with a good rider and top class trainer
• it has often been remarked how kauto wouldn't be suitable for hunting due to the way he goes at times and his hairy jumping technique.
• there are photos of him jumping and hacking at home, so he has a happy well rounded education

Considering the incredible amount of neglect and abuse of horses elsewhere, i'd imagine he is in a better position than a lot of horses in the world
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This ��
 
Non of the ex racehorses that were at HOYS seem phased by the atmosphere, they were settled and showed themselves well. There was more than one in the arena, and that in hindsight is what they should have done on this occasion. There are many high profile ex race horses that have succeeded in other disciplines that could have accompanied KS in the arena and made a bigger spectacle for the audience and promoted the RORs. It was an awful and embarrassing display that should have been thought out better. I would have thought that some of the high profile people involved with the re training of KS might have given a little more thought to what might and did happen. The owner would not, of course have known any better.
 
So true Justabob, all I saw was an unhappy horse tail swishing all over the place and legs flapping PC style. He was a famous horse for his racing career, now he looks like a sour old horse.
 
paddi22 said:
as an exracer owner myself I also have had that kind of situation occur at large shows and its horrible. I agree that if she had have used a whip it would have been splashed all over the papers as cruelty. LC doesn't usually ride like that so there must have been a reason, she's human as well, so im sure she can suffer stage
i am bafffled how people get so upset about this, the basic facts of the matter are
• the owner can do what he likes with this horse
• all other videos show the horse working happily at home in great condition
• its on a fab yard, with a good rider and top class trainer
• it has often been remarked how kauto wouldn't be suitable for hunting due to the way he goes at times and his hairy jumping technique.
• there are photos of him jumping and hacking at home, so he has a happy well rounded education

Considering the incredible amount of neglect and abuse of horses elsewhere, i'd imagine he is in a better position than a lot of horses in the world
Click to expand...

Well said Paddi. It's nice to know there are a few sensible people on this forum!
 
I've just watched a re-run of the '09 Gold Cup. What on earth do these people think that they're doing with one of, if not the greatest chaser ever? It's gimmickry, nothing more or less. I wonder what Nicolls and the staff who dealt with the horse, thought when they watched that sad display?

The person responsible, ultimately, is the owner. Just what Clive Smith thinks he's doing, is beyond me, and who ever his advisers are, they need replacing.

Alec.
 
Santa's-a-scam said:
I've just watched a re-run of the '09 Gold Cup. What on earth do these people think that they're doing with one of, if not the greatest chaser ever? It's gimmickry, nothing more or less. I wonder what Nicolls and the staff who dealt with the horse, thought when they watched that sad display?

The person responsible, ultimately, is the owner. Just what Clive Smith thinks he's doing, is beyond me, and who ever his advisers are, they need replacing.

Alec.
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Can you imagine, in the days of old, someone making Arkle perform, and saying how much better he looks now he is out of racing and not going in a straight line!!!!! The whole pantomime makes me spit.
 
justabob said:
Can you imagine, in the days of old, someone making Arkle perform, and saying how much better he looks now he is out of racing and not going in a straight line!!!!! The whole pantomime makes me spit.
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Exactly!!! imagine Valegro being retired and they think its a good idea to send him pointing about 8 fences behind everything else . The horse has won over 2.25 Million for the owner why the greed?
People who remember him from his chasing days would be happy to see him parade a few times! However the car crash that was olympia just makes true racing fans cry for KSs dignity that had a huge hole blown out of it there.
As an aside if the horse needs calmers to deal with that atmosphere he obviously has a problem with what he is being asked to do. He can cope with large crowds as born out by the winners enclosure after the gold cup,unless you are there you dont realise how intimidating that can be.
 
Personally I have never seen such a negative display of horsemanship in my life.
The horse is obviously doped, and I'm afraid the whole situation made LC and YB look like complete numptee's . If you are willing to show " how well trained " a horse is in a new discipline, you had better be able to step up to the plate, especially if you chose to do it at a show like Olympia, on a night filled with Grand Prix horses and viewed by a very educated audience . The welfare issues involved in this debacle should be looked into more closely...... And the owner of the horse should be asking questions , and not just accepting the answers that he is " fobbed off with " ..... Obviously something that the interview was supposed to achieve with those of us who sadly witnessed the shambles . Poor Quarto Star is all I can say , it was verging on abuse, and as it was at a FEI show, should be dealt with as such ........
 
Agree totally with Alec, Justabob and Popsdosh.

Stage fright my ****

Googling Kauto's name and images will tell you all you need to know about his ability to handle crowds. Olympia would be a walk in the park for him.

Clearly Collet and Breisner have a vested interest in retaining the horse, so the money Smith has can (continue to) buy her event horses.

What a shame he's being made such a fool of, but not as great a shame as the fool they've made of the best steeplechaser of the last two decades.
 
Echo Bravo said:
Maisie2, just because he's well cared for does not mean he's a happy horse with what he been made to do.
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Exactly this.

Just because he's ridden in expensive tack and gets a bucket of feed shoved under his nose every day, that doesn't mean he's happy or well looked after.

I'd be willing to bet everything I have on the assumption that he'd be much, much happier chucked out in a field with a companion or two.

And to those saying 'I can't see him being yanked about' - which video are you watching?!
 
The comment I hated from LC was along the lines of "I am very busy with my eventers and don't have time for him". EXCUSE ME does she know who He is? IMO this Legend of a racehorse should be somewhere where he is absolute top priority!
 
Caledonia said:
Agree totally with Alec, Justabob and Popsdosh.

Stage fright my ****

Googling Kauto's name and images will tell you all you need to know about his ability to handle crowds. Olympia would be a walk in the park for him.

Clearly Collet and Breisner have a vested interest in retaining the horse, so the money Smith has can (continue to) buy her event horses.

What a shame he's being made such a fool of, but not as great a shame as the fool they've made of the best steeplechaser of the last two decades.
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Absolutely agree with this.
 
Kauto's "hairy jumping technique" won him 5 x King Georges 2 x Cheltenham Gold Cups 4 x Betfair Chases .... yeah all right once or twice he did go through a couple but it didn't stop him!
Might be a fab yard but does that mean its the right yard?
 
If it were stage fright and not over doped then I do rather blame them too, he hasn't had any exposure to any sort of competition atmosphere in indoor arenas, let alone olympia. I don't really get the wheeling him out for big events/demos and expecting a 'performance' when he doesn't really have a lot of mileage at doing this.
I just don't think it did the ROR cause an awful lot of good when there are so many ex-racers doing much better things with amateur riders. It would have been so much better for her to call it a day and apologise and say he was struggling, the audience was for the most part going to be a die hard dressage lot who would have understood and wouldn't have been demanding their money back.
 
"Agree totally with Alec, Justabob and Popsdosh.

Stage fright my ****

Googling Kauto's name and images will tell you all you need to know about his ability to handle crowds. Olympia would be a walk in the park for him.

Clearly Collet and Breisner have a vested interest in retaining the horse, so the money Smith has can (continue to) buy her event horses.

What a shame he's being made such a fool of, but not as great a shame as the fool they've made of the best steeplechaser of the last two decades."

Exactly. This horse has seen crowds, he has experienced atmosphere. I struggle to believe he was not doped. His record on the racetrack is that of a horse who has never tired, has never been backwards and has always had flamboyance. We did not see THAT horse at olympia... He looked uncoordinated and unaware of his surroundings...
 
Allover said:
The comment I hated from LC was along the lines of "I am very busy with my eventers and don't have time for him". EXCUSE ME does she know who He is? IMO this Legend of a racehorse should be somewhere where he is absolute top priority!
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I agree with the above. What I am pretty sure about is, long after I am dead and buried KS will be remembered and rightly so for his truly wonderful career on the racecourse,as for those now involved with him, I expect they will soon be forgotten when their careers are over.The people who are in the best position to make comment about the very very sad exhibition at Olympia has to those who looked after him for many years. I'd really be interested in what they have to say but that wouldn't be PC unfortunately.
 
Allover said:
The comment I hated from LC was along the lines of "I am very busy with my eventers and don't have time for him". EXCUSE ME does she know who He is? IMO this Legend of a racehorse should be somewhere where he is absolute top priority!
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I agree with this. I'm sure LC and co are taking good care of him - if nothing else because he is so famous and stories about him will get a lot of media coverage/social media discussion, and we're seeing now how that can go. But I can't see the logic of sending him to somebody who, however good a rider they are, is compeltely focussed on other things and hasn't got time to do him justice. IMO it isn't fair to expect LC to prioritise him, she's a young rider looking to advance her career and she needs to be putting her time into horses than she can win at eventing with.

In terms of his handling a crowd, going into a small ring at Olympia before a public performance is very different to coming into a winner's circle after a race - the psychological and physical state of the horse is different as is the setting (lighting, acoustics, indoors vs outdoors). He certainly has shown that he can handle crowds outdoors but this was still a new experience for him.

I agree that the audience would have been sympathetic if she'd given up. I should imagine that the vast majority of those present were horsey enough to understand and sympathise.
 
katherinef said:
Kauto's "hairy jumping technique" won him 5 x King Georges 2 x Cheltenham Gold Cups 4 x Betfair Chases .... yeah all right once or twice he did go through a couple but it didn't stop him!
Might be a fab yard but does that mean its the right yard?
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Exactly! Ditto "stage fright". He's won two Gold Cups. Go away.

All the chatter beforehand re "we don't know how he'll cope" showed the rider and 'team's' state of mind. And they utterly underestimated him. He was SO generous. They drugged, overworked and then bullied him. He tried but good grief, the riding is there for all to see and whatever we say, there will be repercussions from this, subtle and long term perhaps. But there has to be, and I hope for the better.

I bet there are plenty who would be more than willing to give him the spin he deserves out doing low key fun stuff. More likely to find someone in the hunting community who will have been in awe of him for many years now and would ride and treat him with the respect and love he deserves. He's getting neither of those things I believe. Horrible day for horsemanship.
 
I feel quite sorry for everyone involved in the situation, personally, including the horse. I think the pictures that have been circulating showing a 'girth rub' are actually light reflection on a newly clipped horse, though - there is a pinky hue to the reflection on some areas round his backside, too, and you're talking mega bright lights and lots of red flowers around the place. The audience were so close someone would have seen an enormous raw girth wound, the size of what appeared to be on that photo.

I'd like to see him doing some low level endurance - ex racers tend to love it, as they can cruise along at a moderate pace but are kept steady enough that they aren't putting undue stress on their already high mileage legs.
 
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